Author Topic: about characters wearing off (Read 19989 times)

typo · « **Reply #50 on:** Wed, 14 July 2010, 03:07:04 »

hold down the shift key to use the media keys.

i'll post a pic if i remember tomorrow. it is a deadringer for stock though. the legends are not as bright white. kind of a grey. looks dyesub'd. which it essentially is.

typo · « **Reply #51 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 06:18:44 »

guys, i was kind of thinking about this. i was wondering why pad printed legends slowly fade away and don't just smudge off all the sudden? also, why do the ones like thin decals stay on longer than the heavily applied raised ones? for instance keytronic stays much longer than filco or adesso in my travels.

thanks

Habitat · « **Reply #52 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 12:42:42 »

Hi everyone

I was reading this post with interest as my Benq keyboard just died. I am using the windows on screen keyboard ...

. My question is are there keycaps that the lettering will not fade over the life of the mechanical switches?

I have read that the cherry brown last 50 million cycles, yet it seems the keycaps don't last as long.

From what I have read the double shot ones last the longest. I live in Canada and would appreciate it if you can recommend a modern keyboard has the double shot keys as standard. I just use my keyboard to type so don't need any special features, I did manage to wear the lettering off my last scissor type keyboard. I spend about 10 hours a day typing.

Preferably PS2 and if not a "cheap" keyboard that I can replace the keys with double shot keys. I see there are places that offer custom keys. http://www.keycapsdirect.com/key-capswhatsnew.php

Will the Deck backlit ones last as they are really letters "cut" out?

itlnstln · « **Reply #53 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 13:23:34 »

Keycaps are made by the keyboard manufacturer and have nothing to with the switches. As far as Cherry brown-based keyboards go, you basically have three choices: a Cherry-made 'board (of various models), Filco, or Das S. The Cherry-made 'boards are not necessarily the prettiest, but their keycaps are rock solid; good materials and either laser-etched or double shot. Filco is a much prettier 'board with great build quality, but the keycaps tend to go shiny quickly; however, they have developed a printing technique that resists wear. Letter wear tends to be the exception not the norm with Filcos. The Das S has good build quality as well and has distinctive styling. The Das also has lasered keycaps, so the letters won't wear, but they use a weird font for the legends.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #54 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 13:53:53 »

You can also get old Cherry keyboards from companies that haven't existed in over 15 years. They're dirt cheap but kind of ugly.

Habitat · « **Reply #55 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 13:57:07 »

Thanks for the reply.

I mentioned cherry brown cos from what I have read they would suit me best. However I am more concerned about key wear. I saw a picture of a filco worn key and it did not look pretty.

Does the Realforce have better wear?

Found this while reading

liquid glass

microsoft windows · « **Reply #56 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 14:15:02 »

If you don't want keys that wear, I would recommend looking into double-shot keys.

itlnstln · « **Reply #57 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 16:05:23 »

Quote from: Habitat;205644

Thanks for the reply.

I mentioned cherry brown cos from what I have read they would suit me best. However I am more concerned about key wear. I saw a picture of a filco worn key and it did not look pretty.

Does the Realforce have better wear?

Found this while reading

liquid glass

Filco keys don't typically wear. It has happened, but it's not the norm. You may want to go with the Das or a Cherry 'board if it's that important. Realforces' legends do not wear (the caps can still get shiney, though) since they use dye sublimation, but they use Topre switches, not Cherry browns.

Check out this article in the wiki. It will get you going in the right direction. (Take special note of the 4 y/o Filco with no key wear in the article.)

Habitat · « **Reply #58 on:** Fri, 23 July 2010, 23:23:58 »

thanks that was good reading looks like IBM or Unicomp will work fine too. Now to find one of the above in mechanical switch... any suggestion .

typo · « **Reply #59 on:** Sun, 25 July 2010, 22:35:09 »

why does wasd always wear off first? obviously those are the most used keys. i just don't understand why they are the most used keys. i suppose the answer lies somewhere in the english langauge. i am guessing more words contain one of the wasd. unless it is that we put more pressure on those keys. if someone has an explanation please do tell.

Oqsy · « **Reply #60 on:** Sun, 25 July 2010, 23:13:49 »

Umm... most computer games with keyboard controls use WASD like the arrow cluster. Worn WASD = gamer board if you ask me. For me, the most worn keys would be RSTLNE, just like Wheel of Fortune.

typo · « **Reply #61 on:** Mon, 26 July 2010, 00:24:54 »

well that is really weird. i never play games at all. i type a lot. like nonstop 10+ hours a day. my wasd always wears out first! thats really baffling.

i have even worn out lasered keys. although that took a little longer. all that remained was the burn marked indent. the epoxy was all but gone! i have turned double shots shiny but never wore off the legends. i guess i am just a terrible abuser of poor keyboards. when i show up to work my board must be screeaming for mercy lol.

i also wanted to mention something i figured out. someone mentioned a while ago that the term "tampon printing" was a issue of poor translation. in fact they were correct! the correct term is "tampo-printing". i can see where the term was misinterpreted. the culprits took the "p" from printing and moved it over to the end of the other word. this left them with "tapon rinting". of course this made no sense so they added another "p" back to the "rinting".
thus "tampon printing" was born. ala some chinese folks.
i just thought this was an intresting tidbit since we are, after all geeks!

Habitat · « **Reply #62 on:** Mon, 26 July 2010, 15:58:33 »

Typo.. can I ask what keyboard you are currently using?

typo · « **Reply #63 on:** Mon, 26 July 2010, 17:11:33 »

the keyboard that i have in use is an adesso mkb-135b. i really like this keyboard.
first i coated the stock legends with acryl in fear they would wear off. they wore off anyhow.
then i reapplied the legends with a mixture of india ink and white pigment. they are still on but they are turning brownish-black. i stamped them on. it was a very time consuming process to make the stamps and scan the fonts.

i guess the problem is i am messing with chemistry i don't know about. i understand chemistry very well. i just had no idea how these substances would react with the plastic keytops. what i think is happening now is that the india ink is overpowering the white pigment as it cures over a long period. just a guess.

the reason i started off with the acryl was in fear that they would wear off. i have wore off legends on everything short of double shots. including a number of laser etched keycaps. no pad printed board has ever lasted me more than 4 months! i guess i have really funky body chemistry. i keep my hands washed. it does not seem to help though.

anyways if it ends up looking like a black topre i won't complain.

i also applied acryl to a filco and the legends promptly wore off. the ironic thing is i did that thinking it would preserve them!

i guess i could take a picture of the adesso as it is right now.
i don't know if the faded ink will come out though. it might. you will have to excuse the cat furr all over it if i do please. gotta love the furry friends!

if i can get legends i like on this board i would be done. i really like this board.
i saw some great stickers for mailboxes but they are 1". really cool though, raised gold on black. bling-bling!

typo · « **Reply #64 on:** Mon, 26 July 2010, 23:37:58 »

these are the keys i dyed. notice the a/s/d. i think i put too little dye into the india ink and the black is bleeding through. either that or it is rubbing off. i don't see it on my fingers. look how shiny the keycaps are! only one month old.

Habitat · « **Reply #65 on:** Tue, 27 July 2010, 01:19:34 »

typo .. Doesn't look too shabby.

Does anyone know the difference between the Cherry G80-3000 and the G81-3000.

I am finding it difficult to find suppliers in Canada for the G80-3000 PS2 brown switch (not sure if there are black versions). Can anyone recommend a reasonably priced reseller?

Thx in advance

typo · « **Reply #66 on:** Tue, 27 July 2010, 01:53:37 »

the g81 is a my switch not mx. it is not a real mechanical keyboard. it is not really a rubber dome either. sort of a slider that pushes the contact sheet together. trust me, you want a g80. there are some used ones on ebay.

i forgot to mention, i only did the letters on that board. obviously i could not do the first six function keys,larger keys etc. it is always my letters that wear out anyways. starting with the wasd. i do not game at all so i don't get it. look at the a/s/d. those are done in the tinted india ink. i think the white pigment is rubbing off. since the india ink is super permenant, the white pigment is not. it is not on myfingers though. strange.
the nice thing is i can probably touch it up. if i use the stamp i will not get it exactly lined up and freehand i am not steady enough. any ideas? getting the acryl off was hard. getting the legends off was easy.
remember, the stock legends completley dissapeared on me in 8 days. that is what prompted me to use the ink. i wish i had a picture of that. i do not understand how i wore through the acryl so fast.

typo · « **Reply #67 on:** Tue, 27 July 2010, 02:08:25 »

stock adesso picture regards to this forum.

any idea how i can touch my legends up that are turning brown, freehand? it is very difficult because the legends are so small. my legends are actually thinner than the stock board as well. or some other idea to restore it? half the legend is still there. it looks like a zebra lol.

phillip · « **Reply #68 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 09:57:11 »

I don't know what it is with me and D keys, but I'm already wearing off the printing on mine again. I've only had these wasd keys for ~3 weeks

I'm pretty sure I don't strafe right that much more than left, but I dunno.

gr1m · « **Reply #69 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 10:18:30 »

So I did some thinking. W won't get dirty because your finger doesn't come of it as often. Tapping A and D are the biggest nuisances (and my A and D keys got black as hell). Since your index finger is used more often than your ring finger, it's either stronger and more able to imprint dirt onto the key, or more dirty from use. Actually, I like crouch-hopping in games and left-ctrl was the first key to get black on my keyboard.

itlnstln · « **Reply #70 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 10:40:06 »

I am not sure about the WSAD keys. I know the regular Filco keys are pretty durable. My Filcos had no signs of wear. Here is Majestouch's 4 y/o Filco:

gr1m · « **Reply #71 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 10:44:55 »

Well, the 6Gv2 has laser etched keys which collect dirt in the grooves.

itlnstln · « **Reply #72 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 10:50:15 »

Quote from: gr1m;207495

Well, the 6Gv2 has laser etched keys which collect dirt in the grooves.

That's certainly the case. I don't really like laser-etched, black keys anyway. Laser-etching looks much better on white keys, if not a little low-contrast.

phillip · « **Reply #73 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:33:00 »

Quote from: gr1m;207483

So I did some thinking. W won't get dirty because your finger doesn't come of it as often. Tapping A and D are the biggest nuisances (and my A and D keys got black as hell). Since your index finger is used more often than your ring finger, it's either stronger and more able to imprint dirt onto the key, or more dirty from use. Actually, I like crouch-hopping in games and left-ctrl was the first key to get black on my keyboard.

Well I tend to have clean hands when using my ****, so they keys aren't getting dirty :/ I don't have oily or greasy skin either, and I don't let people use my computer without washing their hands first. However, on every single keyboard I've had, the D key went first. Also, the best way is shift for crouch, ctrl for walk

gr1m · « **Reply #74 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:33:38 »

Shift for crouch? Blasphemy!

phillip · « **Reply #75 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:36:09 »

My pinky rests on the shift key a lot more comfortably when using wasd than if i was to try leaving it on ctrl...and I crouch a lot more than I walk

itlnstln · « **Reply #76 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:45:10 »

Shift for crouch does make a lot of sense. Ctrl is a little difficult to reach from WSAD with my baby hands.

gr1m · « **Reply #77 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:46:18 »

Mine can sit fine on crouch without having to distort any of my fingers except for the pinky.

*edit
Lol, see, for me, crouch = left-ctrl. I actually meant to type left-ctrl above.

phillip · « **Reply #78 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:52:59 »

Well I certainly don't have a problem reaching ctrl with the left pinky, but it's just not as comfy as leaving it on shift.

gr1m · « **Reply #79 on:** Thu, 29 July 2010, 12:54:52 »

Yeah, I agree, but hey, after 9 years of shift-walk and ctrl-crouch, I won't change

typo · « **Reply #80 on:** Tue, 03 August 2010, 18:03:41 »

i figured out my problem but i don't understand what it means. at some point i switched to white legends on black keyboards. these are the ones that always fade and eventually rub off. back when i used white/grey boards with pad printed brownish legends they would last for years.

maybe the white legends are just getting dirty and not actually rubbing off? i have no luck trying to clean them though.

keyb_gr · « **Reply #81 on:** Wed, 04 August 2010, 10:40:40 »

Quote from: typo;208834

i figured out my problem but i don't understand what it means. at some point i switched to white legends on black keyboards. these are the ones that always fade and eventually rub off. back when i used white/grey boards with pad printed brownish legends they would last for years.

Chances are your old boards, unlike the newer ones, actually didn't have pad printed but rather lasered or dye sublimation lettering.

The options for lettering black 'boards in a durable way are somewhat more limited, that's true. Basically what you can do is:
* plain pad printing (will be gone rather quickly)
* pad printing with transparent wear-proof plastic coating over legend ("decals", e.g. Logitech Classic 200) or whole key (e.g. Filco)
* lasered lettering using either a plastic that becomes lighter (dye destroyed by heat) or lighter-colored plastic in-fill, e.g. current Cherry G80
* two-shot / doubleshot molding (most expensive and most durable, e.g. old black Focus, NeXT, older dark Cherry POS boards)

Maybe go through the various Wiki articles on the subject if you haven't yet.

typo · « **Reply #82 on:** Wed, 04 August 2010, 19:33:06 »

i have read the wiki. intrestingly my das is fine. i got a little excited that it wasn't, but it is. the adesso and filco were worn already after this much use. of course there is the argument that i ruined them with coatings. the adesso was going to wear off pretty quickly anyways. i imagine the filco would last longer had i not messed with it.

lasering seems like it works for me. which, i think you are correct. the old boards were probably lasered not printed.

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Author Topic: about characters wearing off (Read 19989 times)