MX Blacks on Filco vs other manufacturers

[Photoelectric]

I had an opportunity to spend some time typing on a lot of different mechanical keyboards today, and I can say with confidence that they all felt different,  even those with the same switch type.  For example,  I tried 5 keyboards with MX Browns, including a CM Storm Trigger identical to the one I'm selling, a Max keyboard, a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL, and a DAS, and another brand I can't recall.  My CM Storm Trigger browns felt a Tad lighter and a whole lot scratchier / more friction than Filco Majestouch TKL with browns.  Either DAS or Max felt closest to Storm Trigger... can't recall, they were right next to one another.  But none felt as smooth and stiff as Ficlo Majestouch.  The browns on the Filco appeared to be lubricated and smooth (zero scratchy feeling) and somewhat more tough.  I don't believe they were actively lubricated by anyone and pretty sure came that way from Filco.

What surprised me is just how much I liked worn-in MX Blacks on Steelseries 7g.  They were soft and not really as tough as I feared.  I liked them enough to change my mind about Browns being my favorite switch!

So with that,  I'd like to ask about MX Blacks on Filco.   Extrapolating from e difference in Brown switches, should I expect the Blacks on Filcos to be lubricated, and perhaps a bit stiffer than the Steelseries 7g?  Or vs other common keyboards with MX Blacks?

P.S.:  Really did not like MX Reds... just bleh.  (Tried them on a Rosewill keyboard).  None of the soft typing experience I expected (even tried all the keyboards with 3 of my 50A o-rings).  Easy bottoming out, unpleasant resistance (the linear spring).  Blacks felt much better and more satisfying.  Blues were pretty great, but definitely the loud clickiness would drive me crazy.  I would love them for typing minus the high-pitched clicky sound.  Got a bit disillusioned with Browns after using Blacks and Blues!  Really interested in trying out Clears and Ergo-Clears now!!

[Latin00032]

It's hard to believe that the difference is that pronounced.

It's like each manufacturer does diverging different once the switches get into their hands.

I'd have to try the same board to see if i feel a difference.

Do you think it has to do with the design of the key caps?

[khaangaaroo]

It might have to do with different batches of switches from the cherry factory coming out slightly different. If you're into that super smooth linear feel, you should try to get your hands on some vintage black switches. They niiiiice.

[CPTBadAss]

Latin00032, from another thread I posted in:

So it's not the switch? Just because of a different board manufacturer?
How does a different board affect the switches?

Production batch, materials used in the board, plate vs pcb mounted, Cherry vs Costar, are all things that might affect the feel of a board.

I've heard that because of the massive order of MX Browns that Logitech put in, the Cherry QA  process has gone down a little and that's why switches very per batch.

And thanks for your thoughts on different switches on different boards Photoelectric. It's always cool to see how others experience switches.

[Photoelectric]

All of the keyboards I tried today had plate-mounted switches.  Costar vs Cherry stabilizers are only on larger keys, but the difference I'm talking about are on small keys, like the alphabet and number keys.  Stiffness and friction of brown switches varied from brand to brand or unit to unit.  But given that my storm trigger felt identical to my acquaintances storm trigger, I'd say it's more model vs model rather than unit vs another unit.

I'm very surprised myself just how scratchy the browns on the Trigger are vs others I've tested.  I think Max keyboard felt second nicest for browns out of the brown group.  I wish there were a Ducky among the keyboards played with.

[khaangaaroo]

Yeah, different models are more likely to use different batches of cherry switches than if you were to compare units of the same model produced at roughly the same time. All my recent unbranded QFR blues felt that same. But my very first branded QFR felt slightly smoother.

[Photoelectric]

Is the difference between Filco's super smooth browns and other browns I tried today lubrication, you think?  I don't know if any at all have factory-applied lubrication to anything, even at least springs.  It was a pretty remarkable difference.  The Filco MJT TKL browns felt almost like reds--that smooth, but there was a definite bump (I even made sure they were brown switches, because the feeling was so different from the Trigger browns that I am so used to).

Moral of the story is: if you have MX Browns and don't like the friction, don't write them off!  Try lubricating or a different model.

ETA: the MX Blacks on the Steelseries had a noticeable variation in stiffness between more commonly used keys and those that are rarely used.  Like the numpad and function keys were stiffer than the legend, which felt silky smooth and easier to press.  So at least those MX Blacks seem to improve with use (in my subjective opinion).

[khaangaaroo]

I haven't tried a Steelseries, so I can't comment on how those feel compared to other mx black boards. But what you're experiencing with the Filco browns, I can confirm. I had the exact same experience with a Filco blues. They were smoother any other blues board I've tried outside of a Dolch with vintage blues. I doubt Filco does any lubrication of the switches, that's just way too much work for any manufacturer to do on any mass produced keyboard. But I think the fact that Filco has been around longer probably means that a lot them were produced even longer ago and the switches are farther from the feel of the batches being produced now.

It's hard to believe the feel of the switches would change that much between batches without any lubrication modification done to them, but if you try any vintage switches, you'll understand how different they can be.

[dante]

I've tried blacks on Filco Majestouch-1, KBC Poker, Leopold, WASD V1, Mionix, TTe Meka G1, 6gv2, Cherry G80-3000.

Filco Maj-1 was by far the stiffest with the Tte Meka G1 being lightest.

[Lunartuna]

I think it has a little to do with batch, and a little to do with break in of the switch itself. Scratchy switches do get smoother over time, I'm sure of it.

[Photoelectric]

I've tried blacks on Filco Majestouch-1, KBC Poker, Leopold, WASD V1, Mionix, TTe Meka G1, 6gv2, Cherry G80-3000.

Filco Maj-1 was by far the stiffest with the Tte Meka G1 being lightest.

How was the 6gv2 vs. Filco?  I know it's not the same as 7g, but still.  7g was just SO nice (the worn-in black switches).  I've got a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL on the way now, so I'll be able to compare when it arrives next week.  It's from a 1-2 year-old batch (one of those limited edition metallic pinks).

[fohat.digs]

What is the approximate date definition of "vintage" blacks?

Currently, the only 2 MX keyboards I own are Cherry G80-11900s with blacks, a German-made 2005 and a Czech 2009 (I think I am reading the dates right).

They feel pretty similar, although the German '05 has had O-rings on it for a while. Am I correct to guess that these are both too new to be vintage?

[khaangaaroo]

I think it has a little to do with batch, and a little to do with break in of the switch itself. Scratchy switches do get smoother over time, I'm sure of it.

Yeah that too, to a certain extent. But I would argue that it has more to do with batch. The Filco I had was smooth across the board. And the two QFR blues I bought a year apart felt different, even though I barely broke in the first one at all. I never got the second one as smooth as the first, even though I used it a lot more.

[khaangaaroo]

What is the approximate date definition of "vintage" blacks?

I think roughly mid-90's. But I think some manufacturers kept putting them in their board past that. There's a thread on identifying them here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36485.0

One way to tell for sure is by the size of the logo, vintage has a larger "Cherry." The second way to tell is by touch. I think cherry changed to the modern logo before they changed their method of production for mx blacks. I have some switches from a 1998 board that feels exactly like vintage blacks, but has modern black logos.

[dante]

I've tried blacks on Filco Majestouch-1, KBC Poker, Leopold, WASD V1, Mionix, TTe Meka G1, 6gv2, Cherry G80-3000.

Filco Maj-1 was by far the stiffest with the Tte Meka G1 being lightest.

How was the 6gv2 vs. Filco?  I know it's not the same as 7g, but still.  7g was just SO nice (the worn-in black switches).  I've got a Filco Majestouch 2 TKL on the way now, so I'll be able to compare when it arrives next week.  It's from a 1-2 year-old batch (one of those limited edition metallic pinks).

The 6gv2 is an odd bird.  I've typed on in-store models that were as stiff as the Filco and my own purchased sample that was much lighter.

IMHO Cherry could save themselves production complexity by creating a linear with a 65g-70g bottom out rating and eliminating reds and blacks.  Reds are a bit bland and Blacks can be awesome but it highly depends on the batch/what board they are on.

[Photoelectric]

Yeah, I personally agree about the blandness of reds, but to each their own, as many people love reds.  But I can see the merit of trying keyboards out before buying now... since it's not as simple as color vs. color.

*Need to have someone who owns both a Filco with MX Blacks and a Steelseries 7g with Blacks to come here and post*   I want that wonderful smoothness I experienced today.  If my Filco ends up being "off", I'll look into lubricating it in the future.

[Latin00032]

I think it is probably the variance in each batch of switches made.

If you buy a filco with blacks today and buy another filco with blacks a year later, you may notice a difference not because of filco but because the way the batch was made by cherry.

[Moosecraft]

It might also be that the switches are more worn in than others. For me initially on my browns board I thought they feel super scratchy and now they feel alot better.

[Photoelectric]

Well, my new Filco is here, and ugh the MX Black switches in it are SO scratchy.  More friction than I had with my MX Browns, which were already scratchy.  Why am I so unlucky to get another scratchy batch.  Basically there's enough friction to make a faint whistling sound from some switches.  The spacebar stabilizer clearly needs to be lubbed as well for de-whistling / rubbing.  Pretty anticlimatic after those super smooth MX Blacks I tried on a Steelseries keyboard.  Other than that, it's great.

[stingrae]

I have to say reds are pretty awesome when you have an issue involving the wrist/fingers etc. You really do notice the difference. I loved my mx blue board but I no longer use it much because it just aggravates my issue too much. I use my mx brown sometimes.

I honestly loathed reds, I thought i'd made a huge mistake buying them (I 'tried' mx browns first) turns out they grew on me and now I find them pretty awesome.

[khaangaaroo]

It's all about batch. Go get yourself some vintage blacks. I'll send you a switch if you don't believe me 

[placebo guy]

Well, my new Filco is here, and ugh the MX Black switches in it are SO scratchy.  More friction than I had with my MX Browns, which were already scratchy.  Why am I so unlucky to get another scratchy batch.  Basically there's enough friction to make a faint whistling sound from some switches.  The spacebar stabilizer clearly needs to be lubbed as well for de-whistling / rubbing.  Pretty anticlimatic after those super smooth MX Blacks I tried on a Steelseries keyboard.  Other than that, it's great.

If I'm not mistaken, the Steelseries 7g has Cherry stabilizers.

You should return the Filco MJ2 and get a Leopold MXBlack from elitekeyboards that uses Cherry stabilizers.  My Filco MJ2 MXBlack Ninja I bought two years ago had the same scratchy feeling, and I ended up having the switches replaced with MXClear-Ergo last year.

The Leopold FC200 or FC500 are excellent boards, but the FC500 has an incompatible spacebar with most group buys.

I think the Cherry stabilizers with linear switches makes all the difference.  I refuse to buy keyboards with Costar stabilizers and linear switches because of the scratchy feeling.

[dante]

Between the Filco and the Leopold I liked the latter more BUT ...

The Leopold's stabilizers really firm things up - even more so then on the 6gv2.  If you went with the Leopold MX Black I would recommend putting 65g springs on both Shifts, Enter, and Backspace.  This will probably make it feel more uniform.

[Photoelectric]

The stabilizers are only under the larger keys.  I'm talking about all of the switches.  I don't mind Costar stabilizers, as ere easy to lubrucate.  Regardless, stabilizers =/= switches.

[dante]

If you are concerned about smoothness and want a 100% guarantee you're going to need to get some Vintage MX Blacks.

[Photoelectric]

Meh, I know, all the best experiences come from some custom-placed and lubricated switches--just slightly annoyed that stock switches from newer batches can have such large variation in friction. I'll wear mine in first to see if they need lubrication still after some weeks of use.

[Lunartuna]

Meh, take a really scratchy switch and quickly press it like 400 times, make sure you tap it pretty hard every 25 or so times to knock the grit out. Sounds crazy but I swear it works. My Ducky was so gritty when I got it. Much better now. Break that keyboard in!

[Photoelectric]

Meh, take a really scratchy switch and quickly press it like 400 times, make sure you tap it pretty hard every 25 or so times to knock the grit out. Sounds crazy but I swear it works. My Ducky was so gritty when I got it. Much better now. Break that keyboard in!

That's the plan, thanks   I figured a lot of the smoothness has to do with the amount of wear, though not all of it in my experience.  (Small chance I won't keep it though and get a new full-sized Ducky with PBTs instead... but that's only because of very limited budget, and because the Ducky will be overall more useful).