Need help picking a versatile keyboard

[MasterKuni]

Hello all, I'm in the market for a new keyboard and I was recommended by a member on a competitive gaming forum to give this place a try, so here goes:

I'm currently using a crappy membrane keyboard and I have something of a laundry list of specs I'd like to find in my next purchase of a mechanical keyboard:
-I'm a competitive gamer, but also a computer science student, so in reality my use case is about ~70% coding and ~30% gaming.  Typing accuracy and comfort takes priority, but I also need to be able to rest my fingers on WASD without triggering anything accidentally.
-Noise is a pretty serious concern
-10keyless is nearly a must since I always smash my mouse into the numpad of my current keyboard
-I would really like to spend less than $200

I've heard good things about topre switches and am wondering if those would be the right choice for my use case.  I appreciate any forthcoming advice in advance!

[rowdy]

Welcome to Geekhack!

Sounds like you probably need a stiffer spring, to stop accidental keypresses when holding your fingers on the keys.

If going MX, perhaps black would be good.  Or if going Topre, then 55g would probably be best.

Some people say they find it more difficulty gaming with Topre, many others do not.  YMMV.

TKL boards abound - perhaps QFR (this is always recommended), or a Ducky of some sort (with or without backlighting).

If you want to spend a bit more, you can't go wrong with a Filco.

Or if you can wait a little while, CM are releasing a Novatouch - Topre with MX-compatible stems.

[Linkbane]

Taking a look at your concerns and seeing that noise is a concern as well as typing, perhaps you'd enjoy MX Clear switches, which require not that much more force than the light springs, but quickly ramp up, making bottoming-out difficult and eliminating almost all of the noise, while having a very strong tactile feedback. Otherwise, if typing is less your thing and you'd rather just have a nice feeling board, Topres are a good choice. If you want TKL, it'll be hard to go under $200, but if you don't mind a smaller version, you might enjoy the FC660C (slightly larger than 60%) layout, for a very affordable price and excellent keycaps.

The reason I wouldn't really recommend a Topre for you is that it seems pretty much unanimous that it's bad for gaming, because it's pretty much a rubber dome with a longer travel (not accounting for the excellent feeling, but that's not a concern when gaming, hopefully).

[False_Dmitry_II]

Smaller quiet matias.

[Linkbane]

Smaller quiet matias.

Good suggestion. No experience gaming on them, but they ought not be bad.

[johndavis33]

I'm using whites right now, really only my second day with them and I'm amazed at how much I like them for both typing and gaming. They're like greens, but quite and with no reset point. They reel similar to clears but are more tactile and there's really just NO RESET FEELING. Thatwas the main reason why linear switches just always felt better than clicky or tactile ones for me, because on the return trip you've got that gross reset feeling. So they're still tactile, quiter than clears for me most of the time, and just as good as any linear switch for gaming, and relatively stiff. They seem ideal for you.

Only problem will be finding a board with any. I'm typing on a ducky shine yellow right now, and if you find one of thse you can probably get one for less than 200?

[Linkbane]

I'm using whites right now, really only my second day with them and I'm amazed at how much I like them for both typing and gaming. They're like greens, but quite and with no reset point. They reel similar to clears but are more tactile and there's really just NO RESET FEELING. Thatwas the main reason why linear switches just always felt better than clicky or tactile ones for me, because on the return trip you've got that gross reset feeling. So they're still tactile, quiter than clears for me most of the time, and just as good as any linear switch for gaming, and relatively stiff. They seem ideal for you.

Only problem will be finding a board with any. I'm typing on a ducky shine yellow right now, and if you find one of thse you can probably get one for less than 200?

Greens for gaming? Slow down there, Schwarzenneger.

[johndavis33]

I'm using whites right now, really only my second day with them and I'm amazed at how much I like them for both typing and gaming. They're like greens, but quite and with no reset point. They reel similar to clears but are more tactile and there's really just NO RESET FEELING. Thatwas the main reason why linear switches just always felt better than clicky or tactile ones for me, because on the return trip you've got that gross reset feeling. So they're still tactile, quiter than clears for me most of the time, and just as good as any linear switch for gaming, and relatively stiff. They seem ideal for you.

Only problem will be finding a board with any. I'm typing on a ducky shine yellow right now, and if you find one of thse you can probably get one for less than 200?

Greens for gaming? Slow down there, Schwarzenneger.

I've tried blues, blacks, greens, clears, and whites, and I've done a lot of gaming with all of them. The problem that most people have with gaming on clicky switches is with double tapping. The problem is caused by the feeling during the return travel of the stem, it's got to reset over the tactile bump, and the force of the spring pusing back against your finger lowers dramatically there. All the sprininess in the spring leaves during that point in the return. This makes double tapping hard, because you naturally don't want to pull your finger up during the return trip, you want to keep it right there and ready to push down to actuate the key again. Not even for double tapping, maybe you're playing an FPS and want to stop short. You'll start to pull your finger up on the reset key, feel a point where the springiness ends, so you'll assume you're fine and you'll stop moving. However, you're not fine, you haven't gotten above the reset point yet. This is why I think linear switches are the best for gaming - they just say "**** that" and get rid of all that tactile bump step complicating things. Blues are, really, the WORST for this, simply because they're so light. There's really no force at all pushing back during the reset point. This makes greens better becasue they have a stronger spring so it improves upon this. HOWEVER, whites are even better because of the way the slider is designed. Whatever is different between the sliders of greens and whites, it makes this whole reset point nonsense almost nonexistant. It's the point where I'd say for gaming, whites are almost as good as blacks. To rank switches for gaming, I'd say blacks>whites>>clears>>green>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blues

[Linkbane]

I'm using whites right now, really only my second day with them and I'm amazed at how much I like them for both typing and gaming. They're like greens, but quite and with no reset point. They reel similar to clears but are more tactile and there's really just NO RESET FEELING. Thatwas the main reason why linear switches just always felt better than clicky or tactile ones for me, because on the return trip you've got that gross reset feeling. So they're still tactile, quiter than clears for me most of the time, and just as good as any linear switch for gaming, and relatively stiff. They seem ideal for you.

Only problem will be finding a board with any. I'm typing on a ducky shine yellow right now, and if you find one of thse you can probably get one for less than 200?

Greens for gaming? Slow down there, Schwarzenneger.

I've tried blues, blacks, greens, clears, and whites, and I've done a lot of gaming with all of them. The problem that most people have with gaming on clicky switches is with double tapping. The problem is caused by the feeling during the return travel of the stem, it's got to reset over the tactile bump, and the force of the spring pusing back against your finger lowers dramatically there. All the sprininess in the spring leaves during that point in the return. This makes double tapping hard, because you naturally don't want to pull your finger up during the return trip, you want to keep it right there and ready to push down to actuate the key again. Not even for double tapping, maybe you're playing an FPS and want to stop short. You'll start to pull your finger up on the reset key, feel a point where the springiness ends, so you'll assume you're fine and you'll stop moving. However, you're not fine, you haven't gotten above the reset point yet. This is why I think linear switches are the best for gaming - they just say "**** that" and get rid of all that tactile bump step complicating things. Blues are, really, the WORST for this, simply because they're so light. There's really no force at all pushing back during the reset point. This makes greens better becasue they have a stronger spring so it improves upon this. HOWEVER, whites are even better because of the way the slider is designed. Whatever is different between the sliders of greens and whites, it makes this whole reset point nonsense almost nonexistant. It's the point where I'd say for gaming, whites are almost as good as blacks. To rank switches for gaming, I'd say blacks>whites>>clears>>green>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>blues

Um, so having to press forcefully is worth the perhaps millisecond decrease in reset time by using a heavier spring? Dead wrong. Blue is much better than Green because you don't have to consciously force yourself to press the key down. I don't know where your ideas come from, but Reds are the best switches, followed by Browns and Blues. Heavy and clicky switches are just horrible.

[MasterKuni]

Some very valuable opinions in here, I appreciate it.  My concern with getting a keyboard with linear switches like reds is that it'd provide a subpar typing experience.

[Oobly]

IMO, here are the best options:

Filco TKL
Realforce 87u
Coolermaster Novatouch TKL

You can get the Filco with whichever Cherry MX switch you like (although clears are a bit scarce right now). It's a great quality, solid board. I would recommend Browns for both typing and gaming. The tactile bump is small and some say they hardly notice it, but it definitely helps to define the actuation point and prevents accidental presses. Best of both worlds, IMHO, with very little compromise on either side (typing and gaming).

The Realforce and Coolermaster use Topre capacitive switches which are really nice to type on and have a more "solid" feel. The Coolermaster has MX compatible sliders, so you can use any aftermarket MX keycaps on it, the Realforce doesn't and Topre keycap sets are hard to find if you want to change them at any point.

However, ALL Cherry MX switches will be louder than Topre capacitive switches unless you mod them. Adding rubber orings to the keycap stems can improve the bottoming out noise, but it still leaves the release noise. It's not all that loud, but you mention that noise would be an issue. With Topre boards you can mod them to even silence the release noise. On the other hand, as a general statement, Cherry MX switches CAN be better for gaming where timing is critical. You can get the switch close to its actuation point and hold it there for really fast response, whereas with Topre switches have a different force profile and tend to "collapse" more suddenly, so you can't "half press" them as easily. Also there is something about the more "industrial" feeling of MX switches which works well with gaming. They somehow feel more precise, but that's a personal opinion of course.

Loudest to quitest: Blues / Greens >> Whites >> Clears / Browns / Reds / Blacks >> oring modded Clears / Browns / Reds / Blacks >> Topre >> Silenced Topre.

You can mod MX switches to be as quiet or quieter than Topre switches, but it's pretty extreme (opening the switches, which means desoldering them if you have a plate mounted board).

[Linkbane]

Oobly, I would disagree. I really think that Browns are so much of a halfway point that it becomes worse than Reds for gaming and Blues for typing so much that it's just a bad switch in general. Blues' tactility is already relatively mild, and halving it doesn't make it feel like a Red and makes it not particularly helpful for typing.

[Mooby]

I have read many posts like this before buying my first mech. And it did not really help at all.

I love blues for typing, but hate them for gaming, where I prefer linear switches. But that's just me and preferences are just too differrent.

Do yourself a big favor and try some switches for yourself or get a keytester, that's what I'd do.

[Linkbane]

Some very valuable opinions in here, I appreciate it.  My concern with getting a keyboard with linear switches like reds is that it'd provide a subpar typing experience.

You know, while mechanically Blues and other clicky switches aren't good for gaming, lots of people like them anyways. Apparently some SC2 and quite a few LoL pros use them, so you might be okay with them anyways. If sound is an issue, you can get thick PBT caps and add some soft landing pads (o-rings are not good on Blues, trust me).

[Pacifist]

-Noise is a pretty serious concern

quiet is not something common in mechs

quietest switch is the matias quiet switch.Either buy one premade by matias or get somebody to assemble a custom one for you, I belive sprit is making an alps tkl and 60%

[Justintoxicated]

I'm not as experienced as others on this forum, but I am enjoying my browns for both gaming and coding. They are not clickly like blues, they wont have the same problem with doubletapping, (I think I would like these if I did not have to worry about disturbing others at work). So they are quieter if that's your concern, they are still have a small bump but the actuation and reset point is the same similar to reds.

I feel browns are a compromise between blues and reds although they are different than both.

I do not think I would enjoy typing on heavy switches like blacks all day, granted I have never tried them.  For me the slight bump lets me know the key has been actuated while coding, but not enough to bother me when double-tapping or spamming a key while gaming.  For example, I have no problem attaining a sh*t-nugget on "stick of truth" while I was not even able to do so on my rubber dome nor my friend on his gamepad.  (Need to spam s crazy fast, as in you had better not be compressing the key all the way or you will be spamming too slowly!  I mean really you have to use your whole arm and almost put a micro tremor in it to hit that sweet point to attain your nugget, so the tactical bump in the browns allows me to know i'm working the actuation point of the switch)

I have a max keyboard blackbird with red backlighting and so far I'm loving it.  Especially compared to a cheaper Tt Poseidon I tried (night and day difference although both had browns, the browns on the Poseidon had a more mushy or dirty feeling I can't put my finger on).  Blackbird and deck are apparently the only companies offering doubleshot keycaps if you want backlighting.  (I often game with the lights off so this is nice for me and the lighting makes it look real good when not in use as well lol).

[False_Dmitry_II]

The matias quiet switches have dampening on both down and upstroke clacks. This makes them more quiet than MX, because nothing can be done about the upstroke clack. During cherry's ask us anything, they said that things like O-rings were never their idea and it was just enthusiasts who started doing that, and that they would be working on a better solution that doesn't remove any travel.

Matias' keyboard also has NKRO, which is always a plus for gaming. Since you want the quiet switches you can even get the black keyboard with PC branding/layout rather than the mac version.