Not sure what to try next

[bexleycorona]

Hey guys, I'm looking for my next keyboard but I'm not exactly sure what to try. Can you guys explain what you look for in a keyboard?

I'd like something with some good feedback. After using rubber domes for over a decade my fingers are just so used to bottoming out.

I had MX Whites and loved how they felt... for about 15 minutes. Then my fingers would get fatigued.

I just bought browns and hate them. There is absolutely no bump or feedback to them. That sort of changes when I use a wrist rest. My fingers just seem to glide seamlessly and feel no weight at all. I can type almost effortlessly.

I really like my Realforce 45g but after a while it feels like I'm typing on marshmallows. I'm still trying out the variable board I got. It's insane how "responsive" my RF boards are. I'll think I've barely touched a key but it has registered so quickly.

Should I try blues? Alps? BS?

What is it about mechanical keyboards that draws you to them personally? I want to see if I'm trying to attain a fantasy feeling that doesn't exist or if I was expecting too much.

[rowdy]

Sounds like MX blues might be your thing.

I look for a standard layout ANSI TKL keyboard - ease of keycap swapping.

Then I look for a stiffer switch - greens or blacks usually.

Or I go for something completely different that I haven't tried before.

Probably explains why I have 12 keyboards and no money )

[Pacifist]

blues or ergo clears are my suggestions. whites are pretty heavy

[cmadrid]

I would probably have 12 keyboards if it wasn't for my wife )     I'm going to go by an e-recycler and look for cool old stuff in a few days.. maybe I'll find some model M or old cherry boards (or maybe it will be a big box of garbage)

I enjoy my blue TKL, but I want to try clears.  I also prefer keyboards with standard keycap sizes.. I wish corsair's boards used standard sizes >_<

[bexleycorona]

Thinking about picking up a Poker II w/ blues but I'm just afraid it might be LOUD.

[Smasher816]

Clears are a heavier brown, I think you might like them. They aren't clicky like the blues/greens. It effects the feel a little bit but o-rings can help with the noise. You can also place the keyboard on a mat.

There are also 55g realforces, but I don't know how much heavier they are compared to the 45g ones. They might still feel too light for you. Normal rubber dome keyboards can come very heavy.

Some people here love their buckling spring boards but if you are concerned about sound that isn't a great idea. If you do go that route the floss mod might be helpful.

[cmadrid]

I dont find them too loud, but you should be able to find some sound comparison videos on youtube!

[rowdy]

Blues aren't that "loud", but the clicking is higher-pitched, and can tend to annoy people.

Bottoming out, on any MX switch really, can be much louder than the clicking of the switch mechanism.

Although you can (apparently) train yourself to type without bottoming out, and/or install O-rings on the keycaps to reduce the bottoming out sound.

[blackbox]

I would recommend you mx clears(as smasher816 also did). They are lighter than mx whites, Much more noticable bump than brown and they are heavier than browns. If you want to try something that is not MX, matias switches (alps switch) might be something for you. I think something with matias quiet click switches could be worth looking at. I have matias standard clicky in my keyboard. Love the feel of it but I think it would be way to loud for your preference.   

[bexleycorona]

What board would be good with clears?

I like TKL. 75% or 60%.

[Beca]

i liked ergo clears. not heavy but still with a more substantial bump than browns. I feel like 45g topre is more tactile than you would find clears though.

all of the cherry switches i've typed extensively on get really...boring to me after a while tbh.

[bexleycorona]

i liked ergo clears. not heavy but still with a more substantial bump than browns. I feel like 45g topre is more tactile than you would find clears though.[b/]

all of the cherry switches i've typed extensively on get really...boring to me after a while tbh.

Oh really?

[Beca]

i liked ergo clears. not heavy but still with a more substantial bump than browns. I feel like 45g topre is more tactile than you would find clears though.[b/]

all of the cherry switches i've typed extensively on get really...boring to me after a while tbh.

Oh really?

yeah, well compared to my realforce. Idk what it is about it, but when I type for extended periods (like writing an essay) with a light cherry switch, I just start to hate typing on it. they feel really weak and not as consistent as my topre switches. ergo clears were probably the least "boring", browns were definitely the worst though. the only cherry board i have now is my 62g lubed vintage black TKL, which is only used for gaming. i might just go back and get ergo clears as my main/only mx board. it's very odd

[Oobly]

Firstly, nice watch...

Secondly, ErgoClears FTW. +thick keycaps and dampening mods for the UberWin.

It's hard to find boards with Clears right now, though, and it requires a fair amount of work to mod all the switches, but the result is quite awesome. I like 62g springs on worn-in and lubed Clears with the trampoline and latex mods to dampen sound and improve the bottom out feel. Have yet to feel a better switch type (not a fan of Topre). They're not quite as light as Browns, but the tactile bump is bigger and much more effective (the lighter spring also increases the feeling of the bump).

Stock Clears are quite nice, but if you got fatigued with Whites, you'll get the same with stock Clears.

I'd recommend one of these, but they're not in stock: http://www.banggood.com/Keycool-87-White-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Clear-Switch-p-89115.html

I actually just bought 2 Cherry G80 boards with Clears to harvest the switches for some project keyboards, turns out to be relatively affordable that way, but still a LOT of work. Easier on a PCB mounted board since you can just open the tops and swap the sliders, but with most plate mounted boards you have to desolder the switches and LED's if they are present.

You could of course just buy the switches and swap them out with any MX board, such as the board you are currently using with Browns:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=596
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=597

Then order some 60g or 62g springs from here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.0

This is the mod I like to do to mine: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0

Recommended keycaps can be found in the link in my sig

[bexleycorona]

Firstly, nice watch...

Secondly, ErgoClears FTW. +thick keycaps and dampening mods for the UberWin.

It's hard to find boards with Clears right now, though, and it requires a fair amount of work to mod all the switches, but the result is quite awesome. I like 62g springs on worn-in and lubed Clears with the trampoline and latex mods to dampen sound and improve the bottom out feel. Have yet to feel a better switch type (not a fan of Topre). They're not quite as light as Browns, but the tactile bump is bigger and much more effective (the lighter spring also increases the feeling of the bump).

Stock Clears are quite nice, but if you got fatigued with Whites, you'll get the same with stock Clears.

I'd recommend one of these, but they're not in stock: http://www.banggood.com/Keycool-87-White-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-Cherry-MX-Clear-Switch-p-89115.html

I actually just bought 2 Cherry G80 boards with Clears to harvest the switches for some project keyboards, turns out to be relatively affordable that way, but still a LOT of work. Easier on a PCB mounted board since you can just open the tops and swap the sliders, but with most plate mounted boards you have to desolder the switches and LED's if they are present.

You could of course just buy the switches and swap them out with any MX board, such as the board you are currently using with Browns:
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=596
http://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=597

Then order some 60g or 62g springs from here: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55888.0

This is the mod I like to do to mine: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50632.0

Recommended keycaps can be found in the link in my sig

What you're describing sounds delightful!

Plate mounted switches are a PITA otherwise I could just change things over quickly.

[Defect]

Ergo clears are more tactile than blues, which are more tactile than browns.

My vote is Buckling Spring if you can handle the noise.

[CPTBadAss]

If you like Whites but find the springs to be too heavy, you could swap in new springs. I highly suggest you branch out and just try the rest of the stock MX switches, then mess around with the custom weighted springs, then try out Topre, Alps, and BS.

I just try to get my hands on as many keyboards as I can to try them out. So I just went to a ton of meetups to get a feel for what boards I did and didn't like. My taste for boards and switches are all over because I don't really have anything in mind as to what I want in a switch, I just try anything I can and see what I do and don't like.

I finished modding a friend's Ducky to Clears and after playing with it, I really want a board with stock MX Clears. I also want a beamspring and an Orange Alps board.

[cmadrid]

http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=keyed_up_labs,tenkeyless&pid=es87u_cc_bbb_al

[Quardah]

Clears or Grey if you want to keep it tactile and silent, but be aware that both these switches have a much more noticeable tactile bumb than brown, which is AWESOME if you are gaming.

If you liked MX white, Clears are as heavy as white but the feel is somewhat different since it's a single piece switch instead of a dual-piece switch which can make the whole difference. Try to get your hands on before buying!

[Defect]

Clears or Grey if you want to keep it tactile and silent, but be aware that both these switches have a much more noticeable tactile bumb than brown, which is AWESOME if you are gaming.

If you liked MX white, Clears are as heavy as white but the feel is somewhat different since it's a single piece switch instead of a dual-piece switch which can make the whole difference. Try to get your hands on before buying!

Stock clears take less force to actuate than White, but require more force to bottom out.

[Computer-Lab in Basement]

Blues or buckling spring is my suggestion. If you liked Whites, these should be ideal for you (as said by others, IF you can handle the noise).

[Quardah]

Clears or Grey if you want to keep it tactile and silent, but be aware that both these switches have a much more noticeable tactile bumb than brown, which is AWESOME if you are gaming.

If you liked MX white, Clears are as heavy as white but the feel is somewhat different since it's a single piece switch instead of a dual-piece switch which can make the whole difference. Try to get your hands on before buying!

Stock clears take less force to actuate than White, but require more force to bottom out.

Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed, you are right. clears differs from white on that point.

Anyway, just so you know, in required force and feedback (if any) :

Brown < Clear < Grey for Tactile Switches
Blue < White < Green for clicky switches
Red < Black < Dark Grey for Linear switches.

Hope that helps. Anyone correct me if i'm wrong.

[bexleycorona]

I just got a BS board. I figured I would try to rule out something cheaper before jumping to modding clears.

[bexleycorona]

I will say I did order some clears and they feel... Nice.

[Defect]

I just got a BS board. I figured I would try to rule out something cheaper before jumping to modding clears.

At the very least, you can say you've used BS.  Which every keyboarder (is that the word?) should be able to say.

[gameaholic]

Hardcore drugs.  They are less addictive than mechanical keyboards

Seriously though, I also recommend ergo clears.

[intelli78]

Some philosophical thoughts...

You can spend a lot of time and money trying to find the one magical switch. It doesn't exist though. You will find some you like more and some you like less, but you are not going to find one switch that ultimately ends your search for all time. I suspect the psychological drive shares a lot in common with addiction on a neurological level, though! You always think you can find something better and better and the chase is addicting.

That said, I have no doubt you can find something you don't hate like everything you've tried so far.

IMO, enjoy the journey and don't emphasize looking for the perfect switch or you might make yourself unhappy with something that should be fun. Part of what makes this hobby great is that you can use and enjoy multiple switches, and switching between them can be very refreshing, kind of like clearing your palette in between courses of a meal. For example, my clicky switches feel extra clicky and nice when I've been typing on a linear switch for a week. Having only one switch would get boring.

[Oobly]

I just got a BS board. I figured I would try to rule out something cheaper before jumping to modding clears.

I will say I did order some clears and they feel... Nice.

Wow, you move fast!

In terms of feeling, I really like both of those, especially the "pop" of the Clears. Maybe you'll find the softer initial press of stock Clears compared to Whites enough to not get fatigued. If not, the mods are waiting

Imsto sells some silicone balls that fit inside the "pipe" inside the MX switch lower case for trampoline modding if you don't want to make your own "trampolines" from orings or a sheet of rubber: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=88

Still waiting for mine to arrive, along with some different liquid rubber formulas for testing for the latex mod (to damp the upstroke sound). I think they'll be a little "stiffer" than the ones I make from rubber sheet with a leather hole punch (hourglass shape gives them good squish).

[bexleycorona]

I just got a BS board. I figured I would try to rule out something cheaper before jumping to modding clears.

I will say I did order some clears and they feel... Nice.

Wow, you move fast!

In terms of feeling, I really like both of those, especially the "pop" of the Clears. Maybe you'll find the softer initial press of stock Clears compared to Whites enough to not get fatigued. If not, the mods are waiting

Imsto sells some silicone balls that fit inside the "pipe" inside the MX switch lower case for trampoline modding if you don't want to make your own "trampolines" from orings or a sheet of rubber: http://imsto.cn/index.php?route=product/product&path=61&product_id=88

Still waiting for mine to arrive, along with some different liquid rubber formulas for testing for the latex mod (to damp the upstroke sound). I think they'll be a little "stiffer" than the ones I make from rubber sheet with a leather hole punch (hourglass shape gives them good squish).

Holy cow, the ingenuity of the keyboard community astounds me sometimes. Industrial grade lube and rubber balls to help stop bottoming out!

What fields of science haven't we experimented with yet?!

[bexleycorona]

Just got my BS board today and I have to admit I love the feel of it. This is what I have been looking for the entire time. The noise will take some time getting used to. My GOD this thing is noisy.

I'm still a little curious about the modded clears though.

[Defect]

Just got my BS board today and I have to admit I love the feel of it. This is what I have been looking for the entire time. The noise will take some time getting used to. My GOD this thing is noisy.

I'm still a little curious about the modded clears though.

Glad you like your buckling spring!  It's still my favorite switch...minus the noise...I REALLY wish I could bring my BS to work...or use it in my apartment...

Modded clears is a great silent alternative.  If I recall, you got yourself a soldering kit or something, right?

[bexleycorona]

Just got my BS board today and I have to admit I love the feel of it. This is what I have been looking for the entire time. The noise will take some time getting used to. My GOD this thing is noisy.

I'm still a little curious about the modded clears though.

Glad you like your buckling spring!  It's still my favorite switch...minus the noise...I REALLY wish I could bring my BS to work...or use it in my apartment...

Modded clears is a great silent alternative.  If I recall, you got yourself a soldering kit or something, right?

I did get a soldering kit but I'm moving soon and won't be taking it with me.

How do modded clears feel compared to BS?

[rowdy]

Just got my BS board today and I have to admit I love the feel of it. This is what I have been looking for the entire time. The noise will take some time getting used to. My GOD this thing is noisy.

I'm still a little curious about the modded clears though.

Glad you like your buckling spring!  It's still my favorite switch...minus the noise...I REALLY wish I could bring my BS to work...or use it in my apartment...

Modded clears is a great silent alternative.  If I recall, you got yourself a soldering kit or something, right?

I'd like to bring BS to work too!

My Model M is too big to carry while commuting, an SSK would (probably) fit into my backpack though.

[jacobolus]

Things to try:
- SMK “monterey” blue Alps-mount switches
- Various Alps switches (in particular, orange or blue ones, but clicky white ones are alright too, or Matias clicky or quiet switches)
- Model F
- Clicky space invaders

All of the above are in my opinion nicer than Cherry MX switches (and in general are more tactile); YMMV.

[bexleycorona]

Things to try:
- SMK “monterey” blue Alps-mount switches
- Various Alps switches (in particular, orange or blue ones, but clicky white ones are alright too, or Matias clicky or quiet switches)
- Model F
- Clicky space invaders

All of the above are in my opinion nicer than Cherry MX switches (and in general are more tactile); YMMV.

How are Cherry MX so popular? Are the just the most produced mechanical keyboards?

--- They keys on my Unicomp feel a tad cheap. Does anyone make better ones?

[jacobolus]

How are Cherry MX so popular? Are the just the most produced mechanical keyboards?

Most other keyswitch vendors got out of the game after the mid-1990s, when rubber domes took over the market and laptops started taking market share from desktops. Cherry managed to take most of the remaining niche mechanical keyboard market (mostly for industrial use cases, point of sale keyboards, etc.), and survive up to the present. In the last 5–10 years, mechanical keyboards have become a bit more popular again, it seems to me, and “gaming” keyboards became a big market.

As far as I can tell, Alps, SMK, Hi-Tek, Omron, Mitsumi, IBM, Honeywell, Fujitsu, Burroughs, Oki, MEI, &c. all stopped making mechanical keyboard switches sometime around 1990–1995. Cherry, Unicomp, Topre, and some Alps clones ended up as the last ones standing. (Actually, I’m not sure, does Fujitsu still do any mechanical switches today?)

There have been basically no new keyswitch designs in the last 20 years, except a few compact low-travel switches for laptops, and some minor tweaks to existing switches.

[bexleycorona]

[feizor]

How are Cherry MX so popular? Are the just the most produced mechanical keyboards?

Most other keyswitch vendors got out of the game after the mid-1990s, when rubber domes took over the market and laptops started taking market share from desktops. Cherry managed to take most of the remaining niche mechanical keyboard market (mostly for industrial use cases, point of sale keyboards, etc.), and survive up to the present. In the last 5–10 years, mechanical keyboards have become a bit more popular again, it seems to me, and “gaming” keyboards became a big market.

As far as I can tell, Alps, SMK, Hi-Tek, Omron, Mitsumi, IBM, Honeywell, Fujitsu, Burroughs, Oki, MEI, &c. all stopped making mechanical keyboard switches sometime around 1990–1995. Cherry, Unicomp, Topre, and some Alps clones ended up as the last ones standing. (Actually, I’m not sure, does Fujitsu still do any mechanical switches today?)

There have been basically no new keyswitch designs in the last 20 years, except a few compact low-travel switches for laptops, and some minor tweaks to existing switches.

HHKBs are made by a sub division of Fujitsu, if I'm not mistaken.