Idea for custom 60% topre case

[tjcaustin]

So I got to thinking while swapping stems from novatouch to hhkb that it would be cool to have a case made for the hhkb pcb to fit into.  I realized that it might not be possible due to how the sliders function in the caseplate, but also noticed that the switch housings in the plate of the novatouch (also confirmed for realforce) are modular. Meaning that you could use those like mx switches in a plate where they snap into place, then you load the sliders into it and then put that over the cups and pcb.

I'm wondering if it's possible, with the measurements provided, of course, to design and have made a 60% case that would take the switch housings from a rf/novatouch and the hhkb pcb.  My first idea is to have something that effectively mimics the hhkb case where the plate is part of the top of the case, but with cut outs for the switch housings to snap into place, but if that isn't viable, make it similar to the kmac happy or duck viper where there's a top piece, bottom and a plate in the middle.

Thoughts?

[Melvang]

This I might be interested in enough to at least give an honest effort to try at a con or meetup.

[tjcaustin]

This I might be interested in enough to at least give an honest effort to try at a con or meetup.

I wish I had the cad knowledge to just design it.  I don't mind buying proper measuring calipers and the like to get exact numbers, I just have 0 knowledge of CAD to make things work.

[bueller]

This I might be interested in enough to at least give an honest effort to try at a con or meetup.

I wish I had the cad knowledge to just design it.  I don't mind buying proper measuring calipers and the like to get exact numbers, I just have 0 knowledge of CAD to make things work.

I'm going to make a Litster case for the Novatouch when I can afford one soon, keep an eye out.

[byker]

I would definitely be interested in a custom hhkb case, I am surprised none are out there. There are a couple of older threads regarding custom hhkb cases, but they all seemed to die.

[bazh]

I would definitely be interested in a custom hhkb case, I am surprised none are out there. There are a couple of older threads regarding custom hhkb cases, but they all seemed to die.

it is because of the complicated of the HHKB case, which its upper part is also the switch housings, which again you have not many way to deal with, either made alu casting part or harvesting switch housings from other Topre board makes the cost raise to the point that the thread die.

[byker]

Yeah I understand why, but some people put so much money into these things, I still thought it would have been made! Maybe just a lower half of the case could be made?

[esoomenona]

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[bazh]

I think the most possible way is to harvesting other switch housing, problem is to have a board that have price that good enough to use as donor board. (Though it would make it lose its unique key feel due to the case mount design but hell yeah, as long as it's alu case, it's over everything )

I like the ideas of using Novatouch, in that way we also have another advantage of using MX caps on HHKB




^: damn that ideas you got was what I've had for a long time too 

[byker]

Nice idea esoomenona! Definitely seems feasible..

[Melvang]

Consider my noobness with this reply, I am not sure this would work well with topre switches.  If my understanding is correct there is no physical contact with a topre switch.  More of a sensor similar to the difference between hall effect and reed switches.  Consider this.  How will a metal plate affect the capacitance and inductive properties of the pads on the PCB. 

Hopefully someone along the lines of Haata, Moz, Mkawa, or one of the others working on capacitive work in BS fields can chime in on this.

[esoomenona]

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[HipsterPunks]

I would be content with just an aluminum unbranded top case, any color would have a nice contrast with the lower grey. The extra weight would be nice 

[Photekq]

I don't think the design is a huge problem. I think the big problem will be getting it produced for a price that isn't insane. If I had a HHKB I'd try and replicate the design in Solidworks, but I don't..

[byker]

I would be content with just an aluminum unbranded top case, any color would have a nice contrast with the lower grey. The extra weight would be nice

Yeah I would love the extra weight. Wouldn't it be much easier to do the lower case?

[dorkvader]

Consider my noobness with this reply, I am not sure this would work well with topre switches.  If my understanding is correct there is no physical contact with a topre switch.  More of a sensor similar to the difference between hall effect and reed switches.  Consider this.  How will a metal plate affect the capacitance and inductive properties of the pads on the PCB. 

Hopefully someone along the lines of Haata, Moz, Mkawa, or one of the others working on capacitive work in BS fields can chime in on this.

People put their Realforce keyboards in aluminum cases all the time, and they work just fine.

Yes.

Also, it detects the change in capacitance. A metal plate would raise the threshold but not affect the change much (since it's unmoving). Also, metal plates are usually several mm away from the PCB. If you look at capacitive keyboard they all have the capacitance changing element (foil, flip plate or spring) separated from the copper with just a thin film of plastic (usually a soldermask). Capacitance is related to the square of the distance so it drops off quite fast indeed.

It's good that you bring that up, though.

I don't think its as good an idea of modding the HHKB plate or replacing it entirely, but another thought would be to use the HHKB stems and make sliders in the metal caseplate of the new keyboard. If we can find plastic tubes made of POM or PTFE that are the right diameter, you can insert them into holes in the plate and then put the HHKB stems in there, effectively making the same uppercase+plate assembly but with metal.

This would depend on getting those inserts from somewhere and would really depend on getting ones the right size, but would have the benefit of not needing another $200 keyboard's worth of parts.

[tjcaustin]

At least for me, I would be doing this in conjunction with swapping the stems from a novatouch in and instead of trying to sell a partial board to recoup cost or whatever, I could use the top housings that are just snapped into that plate with either a custom top case or plate with cut outs for those housings.  At that point, it's effectively a 60% rf/novatouch with unix layout. 

Another idea to look into, if it's at all doable (from what little I know, I could see the fundamental circuit of the board being an issue) would be to see how possible it would be to cut down the pcb/plate of a rf/novatouch where you aren't harvesting 2 boards of parts to go with a custom case.

I would be content with just an aluminum unbranded top case, any color would have a nice contrast with the lower grey. The extra weight would be nice

Yeah I would love the extra weight. Wouldn't it be much easier to do the lower case?

It would probably be easiest to have a bottom case milled if you wanted to add weight.  But then, sticky lead weights like used in balancing tires inside the plastic case would be easier and cheaper, too.

I don't think the design is a huge problem. I think the big problem will be getting it produced for a price that isn't insane. If I had a HHKB I'd try and replicate the design in Solidworks, but I don't..

If I got you an hhkb case and measurements for the cut outs needed for novatouch housings, would you be willing to put the time investment in?

Consider my noobness with this reply, I am not sure this would work well with topre switches.  If my understanding is correct there is no physical contact with a topre switch.  More of a sensor similar to the difference between hall effect and reed switches.  Consider this.  How will a metal plate affect the capacitance and inductive properties of the pads on the PCB. 

Hopefully someone along the lines of Haata, Moz, Mkawa, or one of the others working on capacitive work in BS fields can chime in on this.

People put their Realforce keyboards in aluminum cases all the time, and they work just fine.

Yes.

Also, it detects the change in capacitance. A metal plate would raise the threshold but not affect the change much (since it's unmoving). Also, metal plates are usually several mm away from the PCB. If you look at capacitive keyboard they all have the capacitance changing element (foil, flip plate or spring) separated from the copper with just a thin film of plastic (usually a soldermask). Capacitance is related to the square of the distance so it drops off quite fast indeed.

It's good that you bring that up, though.

I don't think its as good an idea of modding the HHKB plate or replacing it entirely, but another thought would be to use the HHKB stems and make sliders in the metal caseplate of the new keyboard. If we can find plastic tubes made of POM or PTFE that are the right diameter, you can insert them into holes in the plate and then put the HHKB stems in there, effectively making the same uppercase+plate assembly but with metal.

This would depend on getting those inserts from somewhere and would really depend on getting ones the right size, but would have the benefit of not needing another $200 keyboard's worth of parts.

What you suggest sounds like a similar idea to harvesting the top housings from a plate mounted topre board that exists now.  Heck, we might even be able to make those similarly to how matt3o made his mx compatible sliders. 

[dorkvader]

I was thinking about it some more, and I think it would be cheaper to just make a new PCB and controller than it would be to CNC a very complicated HHKB-like top-case&plate. Easier would be to laser a realforce like plate with nuts on the top for the screws to match up with (the screws that thread into the switches would stay, but the ones that screw into the plate standoffs would be replaced with a nut&bolt(&washer), slightly longer.
Then you could put it in an aluminium case, just like how the KMAC was done.

Yes, my idea is like harvesting parts from another keyboard, but instead of that, you are effectively "making" the parts you need. this means you wouldn't need a donor board, but you'd have to design and test more stuff. Much cheaper if many are made, but more work. That's why I think it's the worse solution, but it's different than what was mentioned already, so I thought I'd bring it up.

The reason I think it's worse is Moose's idea allows you to just use parts from one donor HHKB and requires less design work (and cost). Your idea of harvesting from a realforce / novatouch is more expensive, but is "known" to work well and also does not require time/design-cost/prototyping/etc.

But if we were to make this like the XTant project, then my idea becomes better I think. It only works for larger runs. Just a thought though.

3D printing might work. I think it'd be hard to get the proper tolerances required for low friction and so it wont bind on off-axis presses though.

[hasu]

Fun project!

I've also had similar idea.
60% Realforce which fits Poker cases will be my next project. I need split space bars and palm keys(at bottom corners) on it. I'll have to make PCB and plate for this keyboard. As for capacitive controller I'll be able to learn from two existent projects; DPH and xwhatsit's.

This layout and feel of Realforce must be heaven to me

[yasuo]

plunger on the plate That's why people should buy HG )

[Photekq]

If I got you an hhkb case and measurements for the cut outs needed for novatouch housings, would you be willing to put the time investment in?

If I could get a loaner HHKB, plate measurements for the novatouch/RF housings, and a single novatouch/RF housing then I'd love to. I've been interested in doing something like this for a while, but.. Yeah, never had the board.

[argcargv]

The 60% part of the a RealForce TKL keyboard is the same size as the hhkb, even the cmd and alt location on the hhkb is the same as the ctrl and windows key locations on the RealForce TKL.

Maybe we can just cut up a realforce TKL plate into a 60% plate and put it over the hhkb pcb and domes?

Also, I could donate an hhkb if someone is REALLY serious about making a metal case for it.