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Author Topic: Hi, I'm new :)  (Read 3256 times)

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Offline DanielJanzon

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Hi, I'm new :)
« on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 05:58:33 »
Hi Geeks :)

I'm a qwerty guy always on the lookout for better keyboards. Ergonomics is my main concern. I use Truly Ergonomic Keyboard (TEK) at work and Ergodox at home. Both with Cherry MX Brown. I have also used a Kinesis Advantage which was great too.

One thing I can highly recommend is textured key caps which I have on my Ergodox. So much nicer for the finger tips. I personally believe it has something to do with how the nervous system appreciates rich input. Sort of how it is nicer to look at the nature than a white wall. From a practical point of view it helps navigating the keyboard by sense rather than looking down, as I have a variety of textures.

On the opposite side of what I like, my worst nightmare, we find Apple key boards (and all copies) with blank flat keys.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:08:15 »
Welcome to Geekhack!

Textured keycaps?  In what way?  All I can think of is the uniform PBT rough texture (probably not, based on your description) or Braille.

A few people have asked about Braille keycaps, but none have come to light.

Have you got any more info or even pictures of your keycaps?

Thanks, and enjoy your stay :)
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline DanielJanzon

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:16:02 »
I bought them from WASD*. There is a lot more to do in this respect though. I'd like to have textured key caps made of clay/ceramics or something with similar feel. Compare poker chips made of plastic to those made of clay. The ones from WASD are 3D printed (I guess) caps with very plastic feel. Extremely expensive as well after customs tax and freight costs in Sweden.

* http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/printed-keycap-singles/textured-cherry-mx-keycaps.html
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Offline shadowku

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 22 June 2016, 22:24:58 »
I never thought about textured keycaps...

Now I really want to try braille keycaps.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 26 June 2016, 00:41:20 »
Quote from: DanielJanzon on Wed, 22 June 2016, 06:16:02
I bought them from WASD*. There is a lot more to do in this respect though. I'd like to have textured key caps made of clay/ceramics or something with similar feel. Compare poker chips made of plastic to those made of clay. The ones from WASD are 3D printed (I guess) caps with very plastic feel. Extremely expensive as well after customs tax and freight costs in Sweden.

* http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/printed-keycap-singles/textured-cherry-mx-keycaps.html

Thanks for the link, I'd completely forgotten that WASD do those.

They are not 3D printed, just molded in some way, and fairly thin.

Clay keycaps would be too fragile, I imagine.  And ceramics - wouldn't that be difficult to work with at keycap scale?

A few times people have been talking of glass keycaps, but I'm not sure anything definite ever came of it.
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline DanielJanzon

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 June 2016, 01:11:08 »
@shadowku,

Braille keycaps is a great idea. I have some keys with a single spike/dot in the middle[1]. Those are really easy to feel and great for keys you have to reach for, I imagine braille being somewhat like that but with greater variety. The textured keys I have do not have very strong identity per texture; more development can be done in this respect.

Btw, maybe you will learn braille as a by product of having such keys?

[1]  http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/blank-keycap-singles/row-2-size-1x1-dot-cherry-mx-keycap.html


@rowdy,

I think you're right. There might also be a weight problem. You want the key to pop back up rapidly. Don't know if the spring in regular switches would be able to deal with it. If they would, they would be needlessly hard to push down.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 June 2016, 05:27:37 »
Quote from: DanielJanzon on Mon, 27 June 2016, 01:11:08
I think you're right. There might also be a weight problem. You want the key to pop back up rapidly. Don't know if the spring in regular switches would be able to deal with it. If they would, they would be needlessly hard to push down.

There's a lot of plastic in SA keysets, especially sculptured SA.  To me they seem to work best on heavier switches, like blacks (as I'm using now), greens or clears.

I guess if the springs in the switches are strong enough you could have keycaps made from lead!

Except for the poisonous side-effeects of lead, of course.

And the fact that it is sufficient soft that the keycaps would deform over a fairly short period of time.

And they wouldn't look very nice either.

Ok, scrub that, lead keycaps is a BAD idea :p
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline DanielJanzon

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 06 July 2016, 03:48:30 »
Maybe aluminum with a rugged surface?


Off-Topic add-on to my presentation: I also have an Alpha-Grip which is a great idea for typing with relaxed shoulders and good posture, but it didn't feel nice on my (XL) hands.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 06 July 2016, 05:46:09 »
Quote from: DanielJanzon on Wed, 06 July 2016, 03:48:30
Maybe aluminum with a rugged surface?


Off-Topic add-on to my presentation: I also have an Alpha-Grip which is a great idea for typing with relaxed shoulders and good posture, but it didn't feel nice on my (XL) hands.

Aluminium with a rough top surface?

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=78796.0

;)
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline DanielJanzon

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 06 July 2016, 08:21:28 »
Ah cool! But not exactly cheap if you want to replace all keys  :-X

The lego keys over at geekkeys seems pretty nice to type on, but way too expensive.

( http://www.geekkeys.com/holyoops-lego-aluminum-keycap/ )
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Hi, I'm new :)
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 07 July 2016, 05:27:05 »
Quote from: DanielJanzon on Wed, 06 July 2016, 08:21:28
Ah cool! But not exactly cheap if you want to replace all keys  :-X

The lego keys over at geekkeys seems pretty nice to type on, but way too expensive.

( http://www.geekkeys.com/holyoops-lego-aluminum-keycap/ )

Unfortunately as soon as you move away from ABS or PBT (or even POM) plastics, prices quickly escalate.
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ
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