Author Topic: I need your *****y opinions in here, any keyboard  (Read 9238 times)

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Offline Infinite north

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I need your *****y opinions in here, any keyboard
« on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 20:53:04 »
Tell me things you hate on keyboards, what keys you think are poorly placed or worthless to begin with. What makes your fingers sore. What do you hate about qwerty dvorak or any other layout. Any other things you need to get off your chest is fine too, as long as it's keyboard related.

I will start. I hate all the punctuation being pushed off on the right side on qwerty boards. I hate how split ergonomic boards don't have repeat letters in the separation so I can use my left hand to hit y or my right hand to hit b.


Offline Brodie337

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:04:36 »
Keyboard rage thread?

I'm so in.

I'm sick of manufacturers mauling the standard layout on desktop keyboards. It's understandable on a laptop, where space is limited, but on a desktop you either have the keys in the right place, or not at all. Logitech and Apple are probably the worst offenders here, especially the the apple keyboards with the arrow keys tucked up under the right shift.

Another thing that pisses me is half size function keys. ALOT of modern keyboards are shrinking them, with a massive amount of empty space around, so it's not like they have to.

Offline Phaedrus2129

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:06:51 »
L-shaped enter keys that force backslash off into someplace awkward. HUGE ENTER KEYS SERVE NO PURPOSE, USE THE STANDARD HORIZONTAL LAYOUT. Or at least ISO. something that doesn't waste a perfectly good key space.
Daily Driver: Noppoo Choc Mini
Currently own: IBM Model M 1391401 1988,  XArmor U9 prototype
Previously owned: Ricercar SPOS, IBM M13 92G7461 1994, XArmor U9BL, XArmor U9W prototype, Cherry G80-8200LPDUS, Cherry G84-4100, Compaq MX-11800, Chicony KB-5181 (SMK Monterey), Reveal KB-7061, Cirque Wave Keyboard (ergonomic rubber domes), NMB RT101 (rubber dome), Dell AT101W

Offline Mercen_505

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:16:06 »
The "OS" keys that cause evil things to happen when you're playing a game with CTRL and ALT mapped to important functions.

Inverted-L enter keys.

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #4 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:19:10 »
Yup, Phaedrus summed up my hatred for the L-Enter.

Worn out ****ty ass rubber crap dome trash keyboards, and the lame ass companies that make me use them.

XKB for using the NumLock as a shift modifier. When I press Shift+1 on the NumPad when the NumLock is off I want SHIFT+END not frick'n 1!

NumLock being turned on by damn default when you boot up your PC (yeah, you can turn it off, but I have to turn it off god dammit).
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
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Offline Pixel_Outlaw

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« Reply #5 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:27:03 »
Logitech.

And/Also Multimedia keyboards that usually provide "quiet" as a selling feature.


For the record, I think L shaped enter keys are cool.
Brown and black are the colors of cowardice. May my springs shake the heavens!

Offline megarat

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:37:58 »
What a great thread idea.

I hate, to whit:

  • Flat-top keycaps (i.e., no cups) (e.g., I'm talkin about you, Apple!).
  • Those reduced-size interted-T arrow-key layouts they squeeze onto laptops, but yet they leave those ^&%#ing gaps above the left/right-arrow keys, when they could put in a page-up/down and/or home/end.
  • L-shaped Enter keys (covered already).  This is an efficiency-of-space issue.  I've seen smaller actuators on fire-alarm panels.  Plus it's fugly.
  • Keyboards with those stupid-ass single-width Delete keys (usually found above L-shaped Enter keys, to make space for the "\"/"|" key it usurps)  Delete gets used at least least as much as Enter, it needs to be comparable in size, especially since you need to reach for it.

Technically I get frustrated by non-standard layouts as well, but I can't say that I hate them (other than the factors mentioned above, for the reasons mentioned above).  My frustration just comes from the cost of adapting, and just because I'm not used to something that doesn't mean it sucks.  And I wouldn't want to discourage manufacturers from experimenting with new (and potentially awesome) key layouts.
« Last Edit: Wed, 19 May 2010, 21:40:41 by megarat »

Home/Work:  Custom Filco FKBN87Z/EB and SGI 041-0136-001 chimera (original white ALPS, not simplified, rubber-dampened)
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Offline EverythingIBM

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 22:04:21 »
Really thin flat keys without the cylindric shape, cheap rubber domes, european enter keys, really small backspace keys, the ctrl and function keys swapped (like in thinkpads and macbooks), two windows keys (you only need ONE)... and that's all I can think of.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 19 May 2010, 22:17:33 »
Hate:

-L shaped enter keys
-tiny backspace keys
-stepped capslock key (i prefer flat, also because i remap capslock to function as control)
-lack of windows keys (i use them a lot)
-lack of matching right side keys for all control keys
-spacebars that are too long (I need to reach alt keys with my thumbs)
-lack of numberpad (i use it a lot)
-nubless home keys, or nubs on wrong home keys (like on old apple keyboards).

This is just about key layouts, right? THe list gets a lot longer if we include other things like key feel or keycap quality.

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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #9 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 04:18:55 »
I despise keyboards from manufacturers who claim to have Macintosh compatibility, yet mislabel the keys in a way that proves no one ever used it on a Macintosh before they shipped.

ALT = OPT
Win = command
CTRL = CTRL

CTRL is NOT cloverleaf command. Logitech, are you listening?
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #10 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 06:04:40 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;184444
L-shaped enter keys that force backslash off into someplace awkward. HUGE ENTER KEYS SERVE NO PURPOSE, USE THE STANDARD HORIZONTAL LAYOUT. Or at least ISO. something that doesn't waste a perfectly good key space.


Simple reason why it was used -



Note that the QWERTY row had no equivalent to the ]} of modern keyboards. Thus the L-shaped enter catered to those familiar with the Selectric whilst accommodating an extra key.

In also had the advantage of catering to those familiar with the ANSI enter AND the ISO enter as it covered the area used by both.

Offline hyperlinked

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« Reply #11 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 06:22:54 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;184444
L-shaped enter keys that force backslash off into someplace awkward. HUGE ENTER KEYS SERVE NO PURPOSE, USE THE STANDARD HORIZONTAL LAYOUT. Or at least ISO. something that doesn't waste a perfectly good key space.

LOL, you just outed yourself as a coder. ;)

That drives me nuts too.

I also can't stand a mixture of half sized and full sized arrow keys on compact keyboards. Uggghh, make them all half sized or all full sized. This is my ASUS netbook.

I'm also not a fan of the MacBook putting the fn key where I expect the CTRL key to be. End keys should always be sacred because that's how touch typists make sense of the layout.

Key nubs or nipples that are smack in the middle so that you hit them straight on when you hit the F or J keys.

Older (mostly Apple) keyboards that put the nubs on the D and K keys.

The Windows key.

Spacebars that rattle or feel different than the rest of the keyboard.

Backspace or return keys that rattle.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2010, 06:30:37 by hyperlinked »
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
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Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
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Offline hyperlinked

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« Reply #12 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 06:31:18 »
Quote from: ch_123;184594
Show Image

Someone help me here. I can't remember what the "INDEX" key does on a Selectric.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline nanu

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« Reply #13 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 16:21:57 »
  • domed meta keys
  • the kitchen sink: inbuilt USB hubs/card readers

the first thing i think of when i need these is not to check my keyboard. i understand how if you had a lot of devices or were mobile integrated devices do come in handy
  • obtrusive upper half of cases on flush-when-cap-pressed boards (scissor-switch). this is especially annoying for keys along edges (most obvious on spacebar). sadly, typically-designed laptops are exempt
  • keyboard legs that break off
  • power/standby keys
  • the reluctance of makers to use regular keycaps instead of custom buttons for media keys
  • keyboard cases with bezels, for those of us who leave their keyboard in one place and use them until they are no longer used
  • the inconvenience of modifying cherry mx switches (platemount), including the lack of demand and hence supply of subparts (plungers, various spring choices)
  • agree with choices made to compact layouts, including the elimination of gaps between key groups. change is tough the older your muscle memory is
  • stabilizing wire clips that don't function correctly when reversed (filco majestouch tenkeyless)
  • seams/grooves. this includes the sharp corners on the (f and j) nubs that eventually collect grime. this thing is if they aren't sharp enough they wouldn't be so apparent
  • stateful LEDs outside the periphery of my vision

Offline Viett

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« Reply #14 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 16:37:56 »
Keyboards: FKBN87MC/NPEK, Dell AT101W (Black), IBM Model M 1391401 (91) x 2, Deck 82 Fire, Cherry MX8100 (Clears), Siig Minitouch
Layouts: Colemak (100WPM), QWERTY (100WPM) -- Alternative Layouts Review

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #15 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 18:09:15 »
Flimsy keyboards that feel like your finger will go right through them.
Look at this lady's disgust at how limp Apple keyboards are!

« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2010, 20:42:05 by Rajagra »

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #16 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 18:17:02 »
I'd rather one of those aluminium keyboards than one of those crappy Dells that practically breaks apart if you look at it wrong...

Offline asfogh

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« Reply #17 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 18:30:08 »
custom buttons rather than typical keycaps for multimedia keys -- i echo that for sure

two things that i hate: keyboards being light as ****

the numpad on the right instead of the left

where do you find those magical keyboards with the numpad on the right?
they dont exist, ive never seen one, im pretty psyched to get a tenkeyless and a numpad.. i used to just have an extra numpad hanging out on the left

Offline hyperlinked

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« Reply #18 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 18:43:59 »
Quote from: asfogh;185006
the numpad on the right instead of the left


You know... it never occured to me that the numpad on the right is probably a convention passed on down from when the computer mouse was not the dominant way of navigating.

For the first time I want a tenkeyless and an external numpad.
-

Topre: Realforce 103U Cherry: Filco Majestouch 104 (Brown), Ione Scorpius M10 (Blue)
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M1391401 ALPS: Apple Extended Keyboard II (Cream), ABS M1 (Fukka/Black), MicroConnectors Flavored USB (Black)
Domes: Matias Optimizer, Kensington ComfortType, Microsoft Internet Keyboard
Scissors: Apple Full Sized Aluminum
Pointy Stuff: Razer Imperator, Razer Copperhead, DT225 Trackball, Apple Magic Mouse, Logitech MX1000, Apple Mighty Mouse
Systems: MacPro, MacBook Pro, ASUS eeePC netbook, Dell D600 laptop, a small cluster of Linux Web servers
Displays: Apple Cinema Display 30", Apple Cinema Display 23"
Ergo Devices: Zody Chair, Nightingale CXO, Somaform, Theraball, 3M AKT180LE Keyboard Tray

Offline washuai

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« Reply #19 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:17:31 »
It may be an over sized gaming rubber dome, but I do like that you can put the MSFT sidewinder keypad on either side of the board.  Otherwise you have to pay more to get a tenkeyless than a full board, then even more for a number pad *grumble*.
⌨(home)Realforce 87U ⌨(backup) Filco Majestouch 104 Brown ⌨(backup)Cherry G80-8200LPDUS ⌨(work)Leopold FC200RT/AB
☛CST L-Trac-X ☛Logitech Wireless Optical Trackman ☛ Razer 3500 dpi ☛MS Explorer DeathAdder

Lay-a-bouts:  ⌨Full 109 Key Virtually Indestructable  Keyboard ⌨Compaq Radio Quack GYUR84SK
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 ✐Intuos or Cintiq

Offline SuperPunch

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« Reply #20 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:20:28 »
The distance between the function keys and the top row.  Why are they up there in no-mans land?  Put them down where my fingers can reach them.

The layout of a datacomp futaba I have.  One Alt key (below left shift), caps lock below right shift.  Space bar occupies the space of 10 standard keys.  Control where caps lock should be.  Enter key is HUGE (takes up as much space as WEASD). ESC is above the 7 on the numpad. Futaba switches. etc. etc.  It's just bad.
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:28:01 by SuperPunch »

Offline ch_123

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« Reply #21 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:24:12 »
Quote from: hyperlinked;185015
You know... it never occured to me that the numpad on the right is probably a convention passed on down from when the computer mouse was not the dominant way of navigating.

For the first time I want a tenkeyless and an external numpad.


A worryingly large amount of design decisions of the Model M layout were dictated by terminal keyboards and the Selectric typewriter...

Offline Morning Song

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« Reply #22 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:32:44 »
Keyboard matrices where the arrow keys and the spacebar interfere with each other
Boards with differently shaped keys, so you can't rearrange them to make a dvorak layout. (Double hatred for keyboards where the letter keys actually don't fit in each others' spaces.)
Keys where the letters wear off
Nonstandard compacted layouts on desktop keyboards (Especially on wireless. Try to find a proper 104-key bluetooth keyboard. I don't think they exist!)
Scissor switch desktop keyboards. (I can understand if other people like them, but their increasing prevalence makes me mutter)
F-lock keys, doubly so when they're special-key-by-default
Rubber multimedia keys. I don't mind having extra keys (as long as the base layout is standard), but do they have to rubber lumps? Can't they be just like all the other keys on the keyboard?
Lack of diversity in buckling spring models
« Last Edit: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:34:51 by Morning Song »
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #23 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:39:11 »
Quote from: Morning Song;185039
Boards with differently shaped keys, so you can't rearrange them to make a dvorak layout. (Double hatred for keyboards where the letter keys actually don't fit in each others' spaces.)

Extra hate for keyboards where all the letter keys are the same size and shape, but you can't swap them because the stems have locating pins at different angles for no obvious reason. (I mean you, Logitech G15. I'm glad I spilt coffee in you now.)

Offline asfogh

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« Reply #24 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 19:52:34 »
Quote from: Rajagra;185045
Extra hate for keyboards where all the letter keys are the same size and shape, but you can't swap them because the stems have locating pins at different angles for no obvious reason. (I mean you, Logitech G15. I'm glad I spilt coffee in you now.)



oh god this is freshly irritating for me. I wanted to put my F and J keys elsewhere purely for the bumps... obviously, those have special grooves and every other key is interchangeable

UGHHH

re: fkey person, definitely agreed.

Offline maetl

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« Reply #25 on: Thu, 20 May 2010, 20:26:09 »
– Numpad on the wrong side. I would really like to be able to have a numpad and a good amount of room for my mouse without spending a lot of money on a separate numpad.
– Caps Lock key next to A. Caps Lock is just not important enough to justify its use of that position. I would like to see Caps Lock moved to the left of left shift – think HHKB Fn key but on the opposite side.
– Enormous spacebar. I don't see why spacebar needs to occupy two thumbs worth of space and then some. Cut it down and give those modifier keys some room.
– Staggering. I know that it will never be changed, but my poor left hand still wishes that it would be.
– Blindingly bright LEDs. I do not need to know whether or not I have numlock on from space.

Offline Morning Song

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« Reply #26 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 02:07:01 »
Quote from: maetl;185073

– Caps Lock key next to A. Caps Lock is just not important enough to justify its use of that position. I would like to see Caps Lock moved to the left of left shift – think HHKB Fn key but on the opposite side.


This used to irk me, but it turns out there's a number of software things you can do to turn capslock into something actually useful! (Mine's left control) My personal preference is a program called SharpKeys
Clicky keyboards and big trackballs forever!

Keyboards:
Buckling Spring: IBM Model M 1391401, Unicomp Customizer 104, PS/2 modded IBM Model F Terminal 6110668 (current favorite)
Cherry: Filco Majestouch 105 Blue NKRO w/ doubleshots
ALPS: Dell AT101W Black SNAFU (Silent No-longer; All Fukka\'d Up), Siig Minitouch KB1948 Geek Hack Spacesaver edition, Focus FK-2001 w/ WinKeys+XM Alps
Rubber Dome: Belkin F8E887-BLK, Silitek SK-6000, Logitech Internet Navigator Keyboard

Works in Progress:
Prism ATX N9 Keyboard w/ Fukkas (Clickleaf Donor), Cherry G80-8113HRBUS-2/02 Brown NKRO, Cherry G81-7000HPCUS-2/02 (Doubleshot donors), Unicomp Customizer 101 (Springs donor, needs boltmod)

Pointing Devices:
Kensington Expert Mouse 7, Wacom Intuos3 6x8 w/ classic pen

Looking to buy/trade for:Dolch Cherry keycaps, Northgate Omnikey (With Fkeys on top, or both top & left), IBM Model F AT

Offline asfogh

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« Reply #27 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 08:05:42 »
Forgot to add: lack of a replaceable cable.

The rarity in replaceable cables on things drives me up the wall. Is it so hard to have a USB jack on the keyboard instead of it just being in? I'm assuming it's not excessively technical to open the sucker up and rewire in a new cable if necessary, but while i could probably figure it out (and be crazy enough to want to), I shouldn't have to. Same with mouse, headphones, lalala. Just put a fricking jack in :(

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #28 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 08:19:05 »
Quote from: asfogh;185277
Forgot to add: lack of a replaceable cable.

The rarity in replaceable cables on things drives me up the wall. Is it so hard to have a USB jack on the keyboard instead of it just being in? I'm assuming it's not excessively technical to open the sucker up and rewire in a new cable if necessary, but while i could probably figure it out (and be crazy enough to want to), I shouldn't have to. Same with mouse, headphones, lalala. Just put a fricking jack in :(

When I first started here, I really didn't see the appeal of a detachable cable, but now after I got the HHKB, it  makes perfect sense, especially for small, portable keyboards.  It also helps when I want to clean it, since I can just unplug it right from the back.  One of the few "mods" I have done to keyboards was replacing the USB cable on the HHKB with a smaller, thicker one as I really don't like excess cable laying around.


Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #29 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 08:42:08 »
I realised yesterday I can unplug my HHKB Pro USB cable and plug it into my digicam. Standards are good things.

Offline quadibloc

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« Reply #30 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 09:09:21 »
Quote from: ch_123;185035
A worryingly large amount of design decisions of the Model M layout were dictated by terminal keyboards and the Selectric typewriter...
To my way of thinking, not enough of the design decisions followed these two sources.

In 1981, at the very beginning, they should have designed the IBM PC keyboard to have only 44 typing keys in the main typing area, in the same layout as the original Selectric... with a key having the function of the AltGr key being used, right from the beginning, on the U.S. keyboard, to type {, }, [, ], ~ and `.

That way, the Shift keys, the Enter key, and the Back Space key could have started out in their standard locations, and stayed there.

It shouldn't have taken until the Model M for IBM to say, "Gosh! We've got these 3270 terminals with twelve or twenty-four function keys, and someone might want to emulate them on a PC" and move from ten function keys to twelve. (Of course, the ten function keys on the PC were intended to correspond to a different group of non-programmable special-function keys on those terminals, which was even more confusing...)

Since the Model M has to go through gyrations to simulate an 84-key keyboard from the AT, some keys are useless as buttons for gaming, potentially creating incompatibilities with games written for the PC before the Model M keyboard came out. Switching to Scan Code Set 3 just was not an option. Which shows the importance of getting things right the first time.

Offline kriminal

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« Reply #31 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 09:32:00 »
Quote from: HaaTa;184448


NumLock being turned on by damn default when you boot up your PC (yeah, you can turn it off, but I have to turn it off god dammit).


lol you can turn this off completely within the bios.

but i understand your peeve
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #32 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 09:34:40 »
I think there is a setting in Windows as well.  That is, if you use Windows.


Offline nanu

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« Reply #33 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 19:55:51 »
Quote
Show Image

wide angle trickery! how to thinnerize flicos

Offline EverythingIBM

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« Reply #34 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 21:46:04 »
Quote from: ripster;185572
I'm not retired!  I'm the Chief Flight Director on the upcoming NASA Uranus Probe!  Our biggest problem is the large amount of gas we expect to encounter.


Are you sure it wasn't Ingo Swann's probe to jupiter?
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Mental Hobbit

  • Posts: 461
I need your *****y opinions in here, any keyboard
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 21 May 2010, 22:10:53 »
We're ****ed anyway.
Here's the true reason why Europe is shaken by famines all the time, while the US economy is thriving:

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Typing on blues.

Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
I need your *****y opinions in here, any keyboard
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 22 May 2010, 01:09:24 »
Quote from: Mental Hobbit;185586
We're ****ed anyway.
Here's the true reason why Europe is shaken by famines all the time, while the US economy is thriving:


Haha, I love The Onion.


Wait... That's not The Onion!

Offline ricercar

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 1697
  • Location: Silicon Valley
  • mostly abides
I need your *****y opinions in here, any keyboard
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 22 May 2010, 15:31:43 »
Fox News, The Onion, c'est la meme chose. Same overall contribution to society.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.