Author Topic: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"  (Read 15743 times)

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Offline Croktopus

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[IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:15:06 »
221013-0221838-1

Keyboard design always starts with the layout for me. For this board, I set out to create something with the functionality of a 75% or TKL, but with added features like a rotary encoder, numpad enter, and macro keys, all in a tight and exceptionally usable package. I ended up coming up with two primary approaches to this goal, and I decided that I wanted both.

The Case

In the BattleTech universe, OmniMechs are unique for their ability to quickly change their loadouts, with the Timber Wolf being a fan favorite 75-tonner. This keyboard follows a similar philosophy, with the ability to quickly change between layouts on the same chassis.

To that end, the Timber Wolf is top-mounted, allowing the entire top piece and PCB to be quickly switched out with an alternate layout. It is a plateless board, with the PCB affixed to the top case in something reminiscent of a burger-mount, in an attempt to foster a relaxed keyfeel with excellent acoustics.

If quick-swapping doesn't appeal to you (I might be unique in wanting that feature), you may still be interested in one of the possible layouts. The plan is to allow people to pick any layout supported by the PCB, and order a top case based on that layout. Hopefully with no MOQs (though there will be downsides, such as added cost). I also want to have a "Prime" configuration, though (or maybe 2) based on what layout options are most popular from this IC, and offer that layout at a lower price. Hopefully this serves as the best of both worlds!

The Timber Wolf will have an aluminum construction with no weight, but it's not exactly light - Fusion360 estimates it at over 2.4KG for just the top and bottom case. It uses an 8° typing angle and 19.05mm switch spacing, and bumpon strips.

Stylistically, I wanted to go for something in the flavor of western mech designs, with an industrial look and angular features rather than organic curves. I'm very excited about how it turned out, and I hope you like the look of the renders as much as I do, though colors are still very TBD.

221015-2 221027-3

The Layouts

221017-4 221021-5 221019-6 221111-7

These four layouts are only a smattering of the possibilities. Since I plan to allow people to choose their own layout in the GB, I laid out the options in KLE, to give you a preview of the ways you will be able to customize your board. You can choose your own set-up for the left-most column, the top row & nav cluster, and the right side. In total, there are 60 combinations (but much fewer that I'd consider reasonable and expect people to actually use). You can also make your own custom layout that builds on some combination of those three sections and removes keys, but you'd have to talk to me about that and we could design the layout together (or throw something together and set it to me).

While the layouts do all have their own flavor to them, they mostly follow these tenants (most of it is self-explanatory, but I love talking about this stuff).
  • 1/3u Gaps: Having only a .25u gap between separate key areas never felt like quite enough to me, and I've kept the gaps between f-key clusters at a full .5u
  • Rotary Encoder: There are custom layout options that forgo this feature, but I truly love having one
  • Nav Cluster: Inventive nav cluster shapes are fun, but maintaining the original shape (more or less) will always be the best option
  • 2u Delete: The PCB does support putting 2 1u keys in this area, but a 2u delete key (using a numpad + keycap) really feels great
  • Numpad Enter: Easily my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue I've had with TKLs - hitting numpad enter with my thumb has been a habit ingrained in me for my whole life, and I've talked to some others who feel the same way
  • Macro Column: Too useful for my workflow to give up dedicated macro keys, and this way all the artisan fans have a place to flex.

In addition to these wild customization options, the 60% block supports other, more normal options - both ISO and ANSI layouts, as well as split backspace, stepped caps, and a few bottom row options - focusing around compact versions of the standard bottom row, Tsangan, and WKL.

The PCB
  • AtMega32u4 running QMK
  • Daughterboard for center-mounted USB with fuse & ESD protection
  • Lock light with light pipe, shroud to prevent bleed, and trimmer to control brightness
  • PCB cuts aimed at consistent keyfeel over maximum flex
  • South-facing switches
  • Fully via stitched lel

The Group Buy

If people are interested in this keyboard, my plan is to keep things small for my first GB. Maybe 20 units for round 1.

I’m interested in what the community thinks; hit me up with your feedback on the board, and please fill out the IC form! That’s where I’ll gather information on primary layout options, which are very important information for the GB.

IC Form

221023-8 221025-9

Thanks to PheonixStarr for the sick renders in red with GMK Jamón (zoom in on the aluminum in those images and check out that bead blast texture, mm) and the wonderful denizens of ai03's discord server for feedback on the design!

Extra Renders

Feel free to request a render of any layout you're interested in and case color

« Last Edit: Thu, 27 June 2019, 14:13:17 by Croktopus »

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:15:39 »
Progress Log

[2019/06/13] Prototype of the final design is fully 3D printed, assembled, functional, and delightful. I've decided on a factory to do the prototype, and am just waiting for preliminary results of the IC to decide which layout to get proto'd.
[2019/06/16] Proto is ordered! I ordered it with layout 1, in Smoke Black (something close to the dark grey/black in the GMK Oblivion render, but maybe a bit lighter). Updated IC text with links to KLE pages laying out customization options, as well as more text better explaining (hopefully) how ordering will work. Support for 7u spacebar layouts has been removed, due to them compromising the PCB fixing pins on adjacent, more important alternate keys. For this same reason, the ISO shift, off-center 6U spacebar, and right side of the split backspace will have their switch footprints rotated 90°, which may stretch (or in the worst case, break) keycap stems. Obviously this is not ideal, but the alternative was removing support for these keys altogether. My own experience with using rotated switches is that it stretches keycaps a bit, but not to the point of them no longer sticking on the switch stem, and I've never had a cap break. Still, do it at your own risk.

FAQ

Pricing?

I didn't put it in the IC because it's really up in the air, but due to the low expected quantities, I'm expecting it to run for at least $300, probably more like $350, with unique layouts obviously costing extra. Buying an extra top case and PCB (along with the associated screws and gaskets of course) will probably be an added $200-$250 as well. [UPDATE 6/16] Based on updated quotes from the factory, I might actually be able to get close to that $300 mark for the most popular layout, but still no guarantees!

Do I need to use 2u vertical keys?

Nope, the PCB will support layouts that use exclusively 1u keys in those spots.

Polycarb?

Sorry, the added cost from adding that option would be too much for this GB.

Plate?

I can totally understand wanting a plate, but plateless was a central element of this board's design and it'd require basically a ground-up redesign to accommodate a plate. Not ruling it out for the long term future, but it's improbable.

GB when?

Hopefully a month or two
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 June 2019, 07:45:19 by Croktopus »

Offline vision-quest

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:21:07 »
wtf

Offline eskimojo14

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:21:27 »
this is wacky and i love it

Offline Nigolski

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:24:13 »
any price estimates?
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:26:23 by Nigolski »

Offline pilotxj

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:24:58 »
Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.

Offline adb7

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:27:01 »
What's the purpose of the vertical plus?

Offline demonahz

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:27:53 »
I've spent a few minutes trying to digest and/or understand it.

Offline Wongstongs

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:28:02 »
When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:31:19 »
any price estimates?

Didn't want to include one in the IC because it's pretty up in the air, but probably between 300 and 400 (maybe both, depending on the option you pick). I'm trying to keep it as low as I can (obviously), but due to low quantities it won't be that low

Needs an ISO enter for good measure, please.

I'll get to work on that render tonight!

wtf
I've spent a few minutes trying to digest and/or understand it.
this is wacky and i love it

lol that's what I like to hear

What's the purpose of the vertical plus?

It is a delete key, but since there are no mx 2u delete keycaps, I use a + key for realism. The spot can accommodate 2 1u keys for those that are more sensitive about legends, though

When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?

numpad enter is all about being able to hit enter super easily with your right thumb while using both mouse and keyboard. i imagine this is the sort of thing that some people like me are way into, and others don't care about at all, depending on workflows and use cases

Offline Capsy

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:33:27 »
As long as the numpad enter and + sign aren't imposed in the layout, this looks good.



Offline Slash Emperor

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:38:33 »
This layout is wild and I want to try it. I'm in.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


Offline tominabox1

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:38:55 »
No big-ass enter option? I'm out.
HHKB Pro 2, Tina-C Box Black

https://heatware.com/eval.php?id=102533

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 15:44:35 »
As long as the numpad enter and + sign aren't imposed in the layout, this looks good.

Yup, you've got options there. Cards on the table, my proto PCB im typing on right now only has one option in the bottom right with no numpad enter (the one in the render), but i've already mocked up a pcb that allows you to split it into two keys as well on the other versions

This layout is wild and I want to try it. I'm in.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk



:D

No big-ass enter option? I'm out.

hahaha, legit was struggling with whether i wanted to support bae. im still struggling...

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:00:44 »
+1 for mentioning Battletech  :thumb:

-1 for insane layouts (or should I give a +1??)


Are you thinking about incorporating any Battletech art on the board anywhere??


We might have to geekout over BT stuff later over PM's

Offline Vigrith

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:02:59 »
I personally find the 2u keys extremely offputting in terms of aesthetics, it's like the Satisfaction and the TC-V3 had a very strange looking, oversized baby. Case looks nice, though.

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:08:08 »
We might have to geekout over BT stuff later over PM's

i'm always down ;)

Are you thinking about incorporating any Battletech art on the board anywhere??

i'm thinking about it, but it'd be as part of the weight design (a simplified tbr paperdoll mmff i wanna do it so bad), and i'm leaning towards not doing a weight due to added costs

I personally find the 2u keys extremely offputting in terms of aesthetics, it's like the Satisfaction and the TC-V3 had a very strange looking, oversized baby. Case looks nice, though.

haha yeah i was defo expecting that exact analogy. but you can replace the 2u verts with 2 1us, fwiw. working on a model/render for that rn

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:10:56 »
Please consider for layout 2 (blue accents): remove 'End' and 'Pg Dn' from the navigation cluster. I don't like the asymmetry here. If you could add another 1u key to the left of 'End' that would work too, or perhaps just take out the 'Insert'.

Also, on the left hand side, bring the 'Fn' up in line with the other three keys (no space between them) and then move the whole thing down so that the gaps from the top to bottom are equal in size. I think it would look very pretty this way.

Lastly, the 2u '+' key can be turned into 2, 1u's correct? I hope so. Otherwise, not bad!  :)

Offline eskimojo14

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:12:38 »
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:22:39 »
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)

I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:34:29 »
Please consider for layout 2 (blue accents): remove 'End' and 'Pg Dn' from the navigation cluster. I don't like the asymmetry here. If you could add another 1u key to the left of 'End' that would work too, or perhaps just take out the 'Insert'.

Also, on the left hand side, bring the 'Fn' up in line with the other three keys (no space between them) and then move the whole thing down so that the gaps from the top to bottom are equal in size. I think it would look very pretty this way.

Lastly, the 2u '+' key can be turned into 2, 1u's correct? I hope so. Otherwise, not bad!  :)

part of this board's gimmick is that you can customize the layout completely, so you could do all of those things! IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever (and if you'd rather describe what you want in the GB, i'd be happy to make the KLE for you too)

I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)

I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.

i wanna say yes, but i dont think i can. it would require its own pcb and top piece and plate design, which is a lot of time and added costs. theoretically possible though, and i'd take on an independent commission after this runs (if it runs), but yeah :\ sorry. i get the issue with switch straightening, but fwiw i got most of my keys straight without much trouble at all. there were two trouble keys, and as a result i'm considering cutting support for 6u centered space (split would still work) and iso left shift to eliminate those issues (maybe flip the trouble switch sideways and let people make the choice to stretch their caps...but i know some people wouldn't read my warnings). but even those keys are straight on my proto, it just took an extra couple minutes.

as far as flex goes, i get it - i also like rigid boards (i like both flexy and rigid, with different switches), but yeah. i'm pretty comfortable sticking to my guns on this one, since i think it's a better keyboard without a plate. it's worth noting though, that rather than having a massive flex cut down the center of the pcb which gives you insane flex, i put my flex cuts on the outside to try to keep flex consistent and reasonable on the inside area. it's always going to be more flexy in the center than towards the outside, but i think i did a great job at avoiding hot and cold spots
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:19:23 by Croktopus »

Offline glubazoid

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:38:58 »
The cluster on the right looks super messy, but I'm all for experimenting with new layouts.

Offline steezkeez

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:42:39 »
:eek:

I would be so in. Super unique design and not missing any functionality you wouldn't have from a standard TKL. I'd love to participate in the GB if possible.

Offline OtherAndrew

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:50:01 »
this ain't it chief

Offline eskimojo14

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:51:54 »
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)
I know this is intended to be plateless, buuut could it be possible to do with a plate?

For example, designing a way to top mount a plate, and releasing files for those such inclined to get cut elsewhere?

Probably a long shot, but I personally much prefer plates to plateless (partially because I don't trust myself with switch alignment, lol)

I agree, not only for the alignment reasons but some people may not like the deep flex feeling plate-less provides.

i wanna say yes, but i dont think i can. it would require its own pcb and top piece and plate design, which is a lot of time and added costs. theoretically possible though, and i'd take on an independent commission after this runs (if it runs), but yeah :\ sorry. i get the issue with switch straightening, but fwiw i got most of my keys straight without much trouble at all. there were two trouble keys, and as a result i'm considering cutting support for 6u centered space (split would still work) and iso left shift to eliminate those issues (maybe flip the trouble switch sideways and let people make the choice to stretch their caps...but i know some people wouldn't read my warnings). but even those keys are straight on my proto, it just took an extra couple minutes.

as far as flex goes, i get it - i also like rigid boards (i like both flexy and rigid, with different switches), but yeah. i'm pretty comfortable sticking to my guns on this one, since i think it's a better keyboard without a plate it's worth noting though, that rather than having a massive flex cut down the center of the pcb which gives you insane flex, i put my flex cuts on the outside to try to keep flex consistent and reasonable on the inside area (it's always going to be more flexy in the center than towards the outside, but i think i did a great job at avoiding hot and cold spots)
totally understandable, but a shame to hear nonetheless. hoping you won't kill iso left shift, as that'd kill any chances of me buying this board.
guess i gotta git gud :D

Offline Smoff

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:55:27 »
That is a very interesting layout lol

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 16:58:37 »
Just a slight nick-pick, can you please color code the KLE, if possible, for easier readability?

And more importantly, can you please upload an expanded case view? I'm not quite understanding how this thing is put together. Lastly, can you please check that there isn't a typo in your reply "
Quote
IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever

Is that "can" or "can't" take away switches? Sorry. Just tryin to understand this wild case. 

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:13:54 »
Just a slight nick-pick, can you please color code the KLE, if possible, for easier readability?

And more importantly, can you please upload an expanded case view? I'm not quite understanding how this thing is put together. Lastly, can you please check that there isn't a typo in your reply "
Quote
IC has a link to a KLE page that shows you all the places you can place switches, but you can take switches away from wherever

Is that "can" or "can't" take away switches? Sorry. Just tryin to understand this wild case.

i'm on it (both things)

you can. im planning to offer basically one-offs of top cases to accommodate whatever weird layout someone wants to throw in there. the downside is obviously price and QA (i'll be less able to order extras and cherry pick the best for layouts with low order quantities). now, im not promising unlimited customization just yet, because that's a conversation i need to have with the manufacturer, but based on quotes im getting for protos it should be possible without having to charge an obsene premium. worst case (oof those two words are tempting fate) is i'll offer a few different top case options and have low moq's
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:21:30 by Croktopus »

Offline japancakes

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:29:22 »
wtf this is lit

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:32:38 »
Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.

Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:38:57 »
Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.

Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.

Good shout dude. I spent a while editing it down so that it wasn't a massive wall of text, think I went a bit too far in this case

Offline equalunique

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:40:00 »
Felt sad because I missed out on Satisfaction75. Not anymore. :D

Glad the PCB supports so many cool layouts! ISO support has be excited too. This looks amazing.

How about split space (2.25u+1.25u+2.75u)?

EDIT: Ah, well now I see it's a 7u spacebar, so even if a split design were to be explored, it would have to be different sizes. Anyway, the design is really interesting, and I'm sure when gets decided through the course of this IC will be great.

Sent from my LG-H918 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:54:16 by equalunique »

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 17:45:21 »
Some constructive criticism if I can- you may want to make this idea a bit more clear on the OP. Some folks will be instantly turned off when they see the wacky layouts; however, if a large amount of customization is possible - and very boldly and clearly stated - that will bring back in and may even appeal to those who were first turned off.

Just trying to help. It's def. a cool concept. Hopefully the plate-less part won't end up being a deal-breaker for some.

Good shout dude. I spent a while editing it down so that it wasn't a massive wall of text, think I went a bit too far in this case

No problem! Thanks for being open to feedback. That's not always the case.

And I see you've already implemented some changes. I appreciated that!

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 19:59:14 »
If this layout is possible, I'd love for you to consider it as an option for those who are a bit more reserved when it comes to wacky layouts.


221037-0

Offline catamscott

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 20:53:35 »
the more I look at this the more I like it. plate-less design, lots of extra keys, and rotary encoder are all nice. interested to see how the prototype eventually comes out

Offline nova779

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 21:30:43 »
Hope this happens, this is essentially exactly what I want. Really hope layout 3 happens

Offline Minterly

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 21:36:26 »
I would be so down for layout 2 with the FN layer chopped off. If you ever make it happen... ping me!!

Offline nguyenhimself

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 22:24:07 »
I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:



Also: Split spacebars please?
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2019, 22:28:26 by nguyenhimself »

Offline lzlzh035

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 23:19:58 »
WHEN?

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 13 June 2019, 23:58:32 »
I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:

Show Image


Also: Split spacebars please?

Not sure if the PCB supports it, but I definitely like it!  :thumb:

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #40 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 00:08:54 »
How about split space (2.25u+1.25u+2.75u)?

EDIT: Ah, well now I see it's a 7u spacebar, so even if a split design were to be explored, it would have to be different sizes. Anyway, the design is really interesting, and I'm sure when gets decided through the course of this IC will be great.

Yeah split space isn't an option right now, sorry! (I'd have to completely redo the board, and idk where I'd put the MCU circuit)

If this layout is possible, I'd love for you to consider it as an option for those who are a bit more reserved when it comes to wacky layouts.


(Attachment Link)

Yup that layout will be roughly available for order. The rotary encoder will be a bit off-center (there will be more space between it and the key above than the key below), but other than that it's a viable custom layout

I prefer it when things line up neatly with each other, so this is my proposed layout:

Show Image


Also: Split spacebars please?

Sorry :\ I can't re-do the PCB to support that, holes would interfere with the other layouts

__________________________________________

Render with 1u's instead of vert 2u's and ISO enter for those interested in seeing how that looks:
221040-0

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #41 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 00:16:26 »
OHHH!!!

1u's and WKL is looking fresh  :D


Is there a function for the hole that is beneath the 'Insert' key?



I know I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be super cool to see a design here where there is some extra space, even if it wasn't a graphic or the actual words "Timber Wolf". Maybe perhaps TW-75? Just a thought.

221044-0

« Last Edit: Fri, 14 June 2019, 00:45:10 by nasp »

Offline Croktopus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 01:28:24 »
OHHH!!!

1u's and WKL is looking fresh  :D


Is there a function for the hole that is beneath the 'Insert' key?



I know I'm probably in the minority here, but it would be super cool to see a design here where there is some extra space, even if it wasn't a graphic or the actual words "Timber Wolf". Maybe perhaps TW-75? Just a thought.

(Attachment Link)

The hole is there for the LED Light pipe that works as a caps lock indicator (can be configured to other things if you want).  i might look at adding an engraving of the variant on layouts people choose with extra space (so TBR-A, TBR-B, etc.), or maybe just a graphic of the timber wolf's paper doll from MW4. we'll see

Offline InvidiousIgnoramus

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 02:19:44 »
Keep an eye on your mailbox over the next couple days. There should be a letter from my lawyer concerning the matter of you assaulting my eyes.
I long for the day when I find a beamspring. (At a not insane price)

Offline Shihatsu

  • Posts: 44
Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 02:54:13 »
Why is this not flagged NSFW? *zip*

Offline JuiceTin255

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 07:33:14 »
Split space and I would not be able to resist. 3 key space and aid throw money at you and buy two for good measure.

Offline nguyenhimself

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[IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 09:05:55 »
- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!

I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?

Offline eskimojo14

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 09:12:48 »
- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!

I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?

When do you envision using the numpad enter? In what scenario is it better?

numpad enter is all about being able to hit enter super easily with your right thumb while using both mouse and keyboard. i imagine this is the sort of thing that some people like me are way into, and others don't care about at all, depending on workflows and use cases

Offline Croktopus

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 59
Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 11:09:41 »
- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!

I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?

lmao, yup. what eskimojo quoted. its also like, 30% meme factor

for real though, every part of this layout came from yearning. i wanted a rotary encoder that was positioned super conveniently to my mouse hand, and a numpad enter i could hit with my thumb. a macro column with an fn key on the bottom so i could use my alpha-numerics as macros on the second layer without having to reach over to split right shift. an f-row with proper gaps because having to glance down is super annoying and .25u gaps are barely noticeable to me. a proper nav cluster on a 75%. a 2u delete key because putting a key below delete ruins the homing, and leaving a gap under it feels wasteful, and i wanna keep it in the same row, and because 2u vertical keys just feel great. as you might be able to tell, layout 2 is easily my favorite, buuut i played around with layout 1 a lot too and still found it more to my tastes than any other keyboard, and i think it's much more pretty.
« Last Edit: Fri, 14 June 2019, 11:19:54 by Croktopus »

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] Timber Wolf, an XL "75%"
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 14 June 2019, 11:59:12 »
- Nobody:
- OP: Numpad Enter is EASILY my favorite key on a keyboard, and I think its loss is the glaring issue with all TKLs!

I chuckled hard at that.
Any particular reason while you like the Numpad Enter so much?

lmao, yup. what eskimojo quoted. its also like, 30% meme factor

for real though, every part of this layout came from yearning. i wanted a rotary encoder that was positioned super conveniently to my mouse hand, and a numpad enter i could hit with my thumb. a macro column with an fn key on the bottom so i could use my alpha-numerics as macros on the second layer without having to reach over to split right shift. an f-row with proper gaps because having to glance down is super annoying and .25u gaps are barely noticeable to me. a proper nav cluster on a 75%. a 2u delete key because putting a key below delete ruins the homing, and leaving a gap under it feels wasteful, and i wanna keep it in the same row, and because 2u vertical keys just feel great. as you might be able to tell, layout 2 is easily my favorite, buuut i played around with layout 1 a lot too and still found it more to my tastes than any other keyboard, and i think it's much more pretty.


A man who knows what he wants!

I'm curious to know how the weight question is coming along? Are you sticking with the original plan or is the majority asking for a weight?