Author Topic: The Battle Cruiser has arrived  (Read 1260 times)

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Offline apastuszak

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The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 14:52:37 »
The layout is taking some getting used to.  But, overall it's awesome.  And it's PS/2, so I can use a Soarer's Converter with it.


Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 15:06:56 »
OK, question.  What tool can I use to see which keys does what on this keyboard?

Online fohat.digs

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 15:11:15 »
In Soarer's docs there is a spreadsheet he included hid_listen to identify them.
 
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 16:08:31 »
Is there a utility where I can press a key and it will show me the HID code?

Online fohat.digs

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 17:06:26 »
Yes, that's what it is. It is in Soarer's docs on the very first page.
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 05 July 2019, 20:40:26 »
I'm obviously an idiot, because I have HID_LISTEN running.  I'm trying to figure out what the "Rule" key maps to.  When I run HID_LISTEN and press the Rule key, I get this:

Waiting for device:
Listening:
r14 +E0 dE0 r83 +40 d40 rF0 r83 -40 u40 rF0 r14 -E0 uE0

How do I convert all that crap into a useful keyboard code.  I found a sample Soarer's Converter script for the M122 on deskthority and the user there says the key maps to LANG_4.  When I try and use that, it does not work.

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 16:49:17 »
The layout is taking some getting used to.  But, overall it's awesome.  And it's PS/2, so I can use a Soarer's Converter with it.

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A b s o l u t e    u n i t

Online fohat.digs

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 20:40:48 »

the user there says the key maps to LANG_4.  When I try and use that, it does not work.


I have always used the technique that wcass recommended in reply # 560, and it works beautifully for me.
My recommendation is to try that.
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 20:58:54 »
This took some hacking to figure out.  Ended up opening the case and pulling the JP3 jumper.  That allowed the keyboard to give unique codes for each key, though they didn't match up with the actual keycaps (at least for the F keys).  But I was able to remap what I wanted with the Soarer's Converter and I am happily typing away.

I had a thread going on deskthority about this.  Don't want to link to it without permission.

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 21:17:41 »
Dumb question time.  This is the M122 Enter key:



Is it possible to put a spring down the top barrel and convert it to a usable key?  It would be cool to convert it to use a standard Model M ENTER key.

Offline TeacherGeek

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 22:06:48 »
Man, I really want one of those now haha.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 06 July 2019, 22:09:02 »
That is a standard Model M Enter key! *grumble* *grumble*

If there are pads on the membranes under there, to insert a new flipper, you would have to open the key switch assembly ... and then it would require a bolt mod to put together.
Edit: Rowdy did it.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 July 2019, 22:20:23 by Findecanor »
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Online fohat.digs

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:04:45 »
I went into excruciating detail on all this and more in my guide:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg2514883#msg2514883

Maybe I am wrong to assume that people have read Soarer's guide, and maybe come to mine when they start to crack these bad boys open.
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:23:59 »
Man, I really want one of those now haha.

I made an offer for $40 on eBay from a seller in California.  He accepted my offer, and here I am now, typing away.  I REALLY wanted lock lights, so getting an older terminal model was not really an option.

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:25:22 »
I went into excruciating detail on all this and more in my guide:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=48786.msg2514883#msg2514883

Maybe I am wrong to assume that people have read Soarer's guide, and maybe come to mine when they start to crack these bad boys open.

I read that guide, but it was for an F122.  Didn't know how much applied to the M122.

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:40:36 »
That is a standard Model M Enter key! *grumble* *grumble*

If there are pads on the membranes under there, to insert a new flipper, you would have to open the key switch assembly ... and then it would require a bolt mod to put together.
Edit: Rowdy did it.

I can get used to the enter key.  But the short left shift key HAS TO go.  I was typing a very long message earlier today, and I hit CTRL+W instead of SHIFT+W and Firefox closed my open tab and I lost all my typing.  GRR...

It's time to order some keycaps from Unicomp and make this thing mine.

If I could find someone willing to bolt mod and and ANSI convert for a reasonable fee, I would consider it.

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 09:45:02 »

Didn't know how much applied to the M122.


Much of it in theory. As far as changing to an ANSI style Enter and other keys such as Left Shift, it is trivial when doing a bolt mod but impossible otherwise.

As far as programming, if you bought a cable from Orihalcon, he can answer directly the similarities and differences compared to Soarer's original.
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline apastuszak

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 10:57:20 »

Didn't know how much applied to the M122.


Much of it in theory. As far as changing to an ANSI style Enter and other keys such as Left Shift, it is trivial when doing a bolt mod but impossible otherwise.

As far as programming, if you bought a cable from Orihalcon, he can answer directly the similarities and differences compared to Soarer's original.

I did buy a cable from Orihalcon, and it's working great.  The left shift mod should be easy.  The key next to shift, I can rotate the spring with pliers till it comes out and just drop a standard shift key in there.  I've pulled springs out before with no adverse effect.  The Enter, I think I am going to just have to get used to.  I'm not willing to try a bolt mod right now.  Perhaps one day when I find a Model M in rough shape that I score for $10, I'll take the time to try it.

My biggest problem seems to be hitting the function keys on the left by accident.  Part of that is just muscle memory.  On a regular model M, my pinky rests on the edge of the keyboard, since I touch type, and I guess I am used to the modifier keys being close to the edge.

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 07 July 2019, 11:51:04 »

I can rotate the spring with pliers till it comes out and just drop a standard shift key in there.  I've pulled springs out before with no adverse effect.


I have been oriented to the Model F for a long time, and an orphaned pivot plate in that case settles down into the "closed" position so you can't leave it fallow.

With a Model M, it may be loose but is not pressuring the switch to activate it. Your problem might be stabilizing the key if the stabilizer insert goes too deep. You could probably cut off a few mm if need be. I would be curious to hear how it works out.
“As psychoanalysts we understand how one of the things that makes for a certain kind of mental pathology is a hatred of reality and an attack on thought. Donald Trump hates reality .... there are so many different factors psychologically and emotionally that are involved with his behavior that to really understand Donald Trump would mean that you would understand of all of psychiatry. Trump is against any kind of rules or regulation. He sees everything as a kind of psychological straitjacket. Donald Trump probably has the lowest frustration tolerance of any president I have ever witnessed. It is very hard for most people to accept that Donald Trump is not normal, because it is such an unusual situation. He doesn’t believe in rules. Not ever - Donald Trump is like a two-year-old child.
Donald Trump actually hates loving families. He hates a deep connection between mothers and children. Donald Trump hates mothers and children. He cannot control those feelings. Therefore Trump’s goal is to separate mothers and children. He wants to punish them. Other people identify with the aggressor, the abuser. This is what Donald Trump did. He became cruel, like the parent, as a way of protecting himself from his own anxiety. Donald Trump’s father always wanted him to be a killer. So psychologically Donald Trump functions like a killer — but he doesn’t kill directly."
- Justin A Frank - Trump on the Couch - 2019

Offline echoman13

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Re: The Battle Cruiser has arrived
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 10 July 2019, 21:13:44 »
We have one of these in our office! Thought I would never see one outside of it. So, I'm a software developer at shop that programs for IBM AS/400 mainframes(now called the IBM iSeries). These were plugged into old dumb terminals that connected back into the AS/400 mainframe. We have some people that have been coding at my company since the 80s and used these keyboards everyday. These older programmers still use terms like "field exit", "roll up/down", etc - You can see those keys on the keyboard. The OS on the mainframe still uses F13-F24 regularly for navigation and commands - the primary reason I've never gone smaller than a TKL board.

EDIT: Another note - You'll notice the Enter key is where right control is on modern keyboards. Many of the older programmers in the office still have their right control mapped to Enter because they have been working with the OS for so long.
« Last Edit: Wed, 10 July 2019, 21:37:26 by echoman13 »