Author Topic: Watch my modified Manuform print right now  (Read 9525 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SeattleChrisCode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Seattle
Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« on: Thu, 01 August 2019, 13:10:03 »
I posted in this forum a little while back, but I'm still super new. Even though I'm still working on my first keyboard, I apparently have high aspirations. After tinkering around with some different ideas for the thumb cluster and deciding on a perhaps overly extreme curve for the fingers, I've sent my first full test print to my friend with the nice 3D printer. He's got a live video stream of it here:

http://mhzsys.net:21202/

It is going to take 36 hours to print! That is just for the right hand. Damn! I'm going to try this out for fit and see how it feels. Likely make some adjustments before printing both hands and wiring it all together.

You can see the draw for this on my GitHub repo here:

https://github.com/SeattleChris/dactyl-keyboard/blob/master/things/chris/right.stl

So much to learn for this project. So far learning the Clojure language, and how the previous manuform / dactyl code was written, how to set up 3D printing (my very first-time 3D printing was for this project). My next learning steps, soldering and hand-wiring the thing together. Of course, there is also the extensive deep dive on the ergonomics and custom keyboard world -  - big thanks to all the community and posts here!

Offline nevin

  • Posts: 876
  • Location: US
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 01 August 2019, 13:30:19 »
very exciting. cheers!
Keeb.io Viterbi, Apple m0110, Apple m0120, Apple m0110a, Apple 658-4081, Apple M1242, Apple AEK II, MK96, GH60/Pure, Cherry g84-4100, Adesso AKP-220B, Magicforce 68

Offline SeattleChrisCode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 01 August 2019, 13:40:44 »
If anyone has insights for issues they see with the draw, I'd love to hear it. This is all new to me, so I'm sure you all have more experience and aware of some issues I don't know to check for.

Offline iso

  • Posts: 221
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 01 August 2019, 20:22:15 »
Do you have any experience modelling ?

One piece print is always sturdier and feels better when using it but you`re just beginning this journey of creating your own model/keyboard
My sugestion is, using your favourite 3d modelling program split the model in at least 5 parts (walls and top wherethe keys go in) and add a method to assemble those parts into one big piece, that looks like the one you start printing.

Why ?
If you want o change something you only have to re-print that part not the whole assembly
Failing enough prints for various reasons will get you thinking about not wasting filament
Learn to use your slicer, rotate/properly position your model in 3d space so you win over filament and time use without sacrificing quality/model integrity

Looking at the way you`re printing this, I can easily say you could have saved over 40% (dont switch to Geigo) printing time if you`d took the time to properly set up the model

Finding the right layout for you and modelling/modifying the print is harder than soldering and all that follows.

Offline SeattleChrisCode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 20:07:00 »
I do not have any experience modeling. You make some good points. I've seen some custom builds with adjustable sections, and yes that does seem like a good approach to figure out what angles work. I wasn't really sure the best way to set that up, and I mostly started with modifying the Manuform/dactyl design, so I ended up where I am at. I did print up some tests for the thumb cluster and that was insightful for cutting out some things I thought might work. I even printed up the first couple of columns to get a sense for alignment and how much space there was for fitting things together. So not as strong of an approach as having adjustable parts to better tweak for best fit.

In those tests, I was often shocked by how a few mm difference in some parameters would make things feel drastically different. Which angles and positions were really sensitive to minor changes did not always match up with my guess of what would feel similar vs drastically different. Certainly a learning process, and one that may have unknowable future steps to it. I can't be sure at this point. So, despite these attempts at figuring out shapes and positioning, I am admittedly depending on some hope that this print feels pretty good because I couldn't get as clear of a sense of things the way I approached it.

Maybe I'll get lucky and it will feel close to what I want. Right now I'm cautiously still excited to see how this version turns out.

Offline SeattleChrisCode

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 8
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 21:05:22 »
Looking at the way you`re printing this, I can easily say you could have saved over 40% (dont switch to Geigo) printing time if you`d took the time to properly set up the model

Are you saying that even as a single object printed this could have been printed quicker and better? Or are you still pointing out that a more modular approach would have allowed for each section to be aligned and printed quicker and more efficiently?

I literally only started looking at 3D printing thanks to this project. Apparently "that perfect keyboard" bug bit me hard.

I have been tweaking with this for a while in between other work and projects. I've been very fortunate to have access to a small 3D printer at work to tinker around with during slow times (or mostly just let it run while I'm doing other tasks). That device is only good for small prints, but it gave me some insights and experience. I'm also very lucky that a little while back I met someone who is heavily into the maker community and 3D print stuff, and he was very gracious to offer to let me print stuff with his equipment. His equipment is what is running the current 3D print and live feed that I linked to in my post. For that large print, I was counting on his expertise for support structure and printing it up. I was really surprised since that print is spending a lot of material on the support structure, but I don't really know how to evaluate if it is overkill.

Unfortunately, this helpful new friend with the great 3D printer equipment lives in an area that is complicated to get to (have to deal with taking a Ferry and those limited schedules). So even though the print is about to finish tonight, it is Friday and I probably won't get to play with it until Monday!

Offline iso

  • Posts: 221
Re: Watch my modified Manuform print right now
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 23:37:33 »
"
Are you saying that even as a single object printed this could have been printed quicker and better? Or are you still pointing out that a more modular approach would have allowed for each section to be aligned and printed quicker and more efficiently?

"

Yes and yes

The supports you`ve used were way too... dense
You`ve got floating elements, not attached to the main model, I`m sure you arealdy found that out, some of the supports for various elements are very flimsy/barely attached to the main model.

If you separate the top of the model you can move very close to the base, which means there are almost no support
The top of the model is the reason why the supports are needed, overhangs.
If you separate the walls and create a model for each, you can make them parallel to the base and depending on how flat they are there will be no supports and rigidity will be higher.

Ive attached 3 pictures, first is the way you printed the model, second, to compare with your default printing position, saves a good chunk of time...
I know you`re thinking, "its only 30 min more", true, but thats only one piece you`ve printed and all I did is rotate the model so there is minimal supports that need to be printed.
Print for 2 weeks straight different pieces and that adds up, to the cost and time, just wait to fail or having to replace printer parts and you`ll get it.

Third is a little bit of an example on what do I mean by the top of the model, red line indicates where the separation should be.
The reason I`ve asked about how strong your modelling skills are is because if takes you twice as long to split the large model in smaller models than for the printer to do the whole model in one sitting, is not worth it.
I hope this helps and I repeat, modelling and trying to get exacly the shape you want is harder than anything else you`ll need to do after that but dont give up.