Author Topic: [IC] ogre ergo - updated 01-21-2020  (Read 9580 times)

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Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
[IC] ogre ergo - updated 01-21-2020
« on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 19:31:14 »


01-21-2020 Update





https://forms.gle/LtxssRDVAebRjEPv8

ergo keyboards

overpriced.
boring.
hard to find keycaps for.
ugly.

but not anymore.
not today.
today is the day a beautiful new ergo is born.
soon you can cap it with your favorite sets.
the ergo form factor is revived.

introducing...

the

ogre ergo





i envisioned a new ergo. inspired by the original ergodox from 7 years ago.
a kit that inspired geeks to learn to solder.
a keyboard that could be unique and customized just as you like.
split or single, case and keycaps. especially the keycaps
by designing the ogre ergo around a standard set of keycaps the possibilities are truely infinity.


design goals:

  - an updated take on the ergodox that makes it easier to cap!
  - designed to be covered by all of the most popular base gmk and signature plastic key sets. lets design the board around the caps not the other way around.
  - traditional single (think em7 or alice) and split-options available using the same pcb.
  - 70 keys
  - not going to solve "the legend problem". as ergodox users know its usually very difficult to get legends that match your actual keys on your outer rows. ogre will not solve this. for the most part it just takes a traditional layout with the backspace, larger shift key and enter key moved to the thumb positions and left over matching row profiles moved to fill in those positions. it is intended that the builder customize with QMK (ie you probably end up reprogramming your modifiers)
  - as a designer i want to put the builder first. this means i am going to attempt to leave you as many options as i can with-in reason.


the pcb:

  - QMK
  - gives the builder options on split vs non-split (break away tabs), and outer column caps (all gmk base kits should cover. random cheap tkl kit should cover too!)
  - single pro-micro for non split, dual for split
  - pcb not reversible. will be  350mm x 130mm. will use breakaway tabs to split in two.
  - entry level (ogre waif) and end game (ogre queen) at a later date.
  - no hot swap other than mill-max
  - under glow yes
  - per key rgb - nope!
  - this needs to be easy for the first time build to solder. pro-micro and all through hole soldering.


the case (ogre waif):

  - sandwich style acrylic in the tradition of the original ergodox.
  - top and bottom layers will be offered in multiple colors. you can pick multiple. so you can swap when you get new caps. middle layers will be clear.
  - looking at options to have a completely flat surface (no screw holes in the top plate using some type of acrylic glue, maybe magnets?) top layer will just be for looks and plate or inner layers will be secured with screws.
  - thinking about wood option plates that can use color matches from a paint store on pantone colors with high gloss finish. think electric guitar finish. match those caps primary colors perfectly!
  - tenting options tbd


end game (the ogre queen):

  - i do plan on a cnc'd aluminum end game version of this at some point but the initial focus will be on the waif and getting people new to the community an easy to build and customize kit.


roadmap:

  - if this goes well i will take the ogre to end game
  - two peice cnc'ed acrylic and wood cases
  - on the way to endgame, there will be other models.
  - an ortho-linear version
  - a staggered version
  - a fullsize version (the ogre king)
  - a hotswap/rgb per-key 'gamer' version (the ogre thief)


the philosophy:

  - < $100 for the waif. leave that money for those custom cap base sets.
  - i want to give back to this awesome community and get this form factor out there.
  - i plan for this to be a very iterative process. it's not going to be one big group buy.


why the name ogre?

  - its inspired by the asymmetrical nature of the ergo form factor. ogre ergo. ergo ogre.
  - and my love of fantasy role playing games

prototypes:

i have created several prototypes including one which i've used as my daily driver for the last month or so. pictures below.


initial wooden prototype








tkl plate prototype








single pro-micro prototype








final hand-wire prototype. before pcb prototype





















the pcb prototype








layouts


70 key. requires extra a 1.5 modifier, a R3 1.75 ctrl key and a R4 2.25 shift


68 key. tkl keys only.



get the perfect color

with the birch wood mid-layer the ogre ergo sandwich case will give you the perfect color for your favorite caps.



support

https://ctrlshiftba.com



layouts






follow me on instagram for updates @ctrlshiftba

join my discord

https://discord.gg/KRB3A9a



fill out this form if you're interested


https://forms.gle/LtxssRDVAebRjEPv8

todo
design split case
design slim bezel case
add underglow to pcb design
add pcb art
pcb prototype round 2



checkout my sister project - gmk ogre




update history
2019-08-02 - IC launch
2019-08-07 - split prototype and color match update


« Last Edit: Tue, 21 January 2020, 20:41:56 by ctrlshiftba »

Offline thecyangiant

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 20:43:17 »
Awesome concept, I'm curious to see how this goes.

Offline ReDsNoTDeAd

  • Posts: 509
  • Location: Alberta, Canada
  • >2015+4 >not selling your TKL for a 75%
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 21:04:48 »
Interested. Tired of buying sets just to fit my split memeboards. This is a needed innovation.

Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 02 August 2019, 23:59:26 »
I really like the idea of using a standard cap set.  And I like the name, too :)  I wish the primary thumb switch clusters were symmetrical, though.  I am "right thumb heavy" on my splits.  Maybe being left handed has something to do with it although that's total conjecture.  Regardless, I'd like the ability to put a stabilizer on that innermost thumb position on the right side as well so I could use a larger keycap there instead of (or in addition to) the larger one on the left side.

Offline piit79

  • Posts: 246
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 02:36:33 »
I like it a lot! Good work. I like the single Pro Micro PCB. Looking forward to the GB :)

Just a note, for the 68 key/TKL option, the form says "uses stand tkl with 7 R4 1.75 key" - I assume that was meant to be "7 R4 1.25u keys".

Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 04:44:45 »
I really like the idea of using a standard cap set.  And I like the name, too :)  I wish the primary thumb switch clusters were symmetrical, though.  I am "right thumb heavy" on my splits.  Maybe being left handed has something to do with it although that's total conjecture.  Regardless, I'd like the ability to put a stabilizer on that innermost thumb position on the right side as well so I could use a larger keycap there instead of (or in addition to) the larger one on the left side.

Yeah I had that in my original plans then simplified. I do see other boards with multiple option stab holes in the pcb so I can see if I can work it back in. Options was a big part of my core design goals.

Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 10:30:35 »
I really like the idea of using a standard cap set.  And I like the name, too :)  I wish the primary thumb switch clusters were symmetrical, though.  I am "right thumb heavy" on my splits.  Maybe being left handed has something to do with it although that's total conjecture.  Regardless, I'd like the ability to put a stabilizer on that innermost thumb position on the right side as well so I could use a larger keycap there instead of (or in addition to) the larger one on the left side.

Yeah I had that in my original plans then simplified. I do see other boards with multiple option stab holes in the pcb so I can see if I can work it back in. Options was a big part of my core design goals.

That's exactly what I was thinking and it would be a great option.

Offline bobgr8

  • Posts: 38
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 11:56:39 »
  - < $100 for the waif. leave that money for those custom cap base sets.

hahahahaha
same, My current keycaps are more expensive than the keeb itself!



Offline equalunique

  • Posts: 407
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 16:19:06 »
Maybe in a future iteration add footprint for Elite-C / Proton-C with optional functionality. One thing I wish this board had (as well as all boards) was an integrated pointing device. TrackPoint is ideal, but a simple joystick or blackberry trackball is great too.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk


Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 04 August 2019, 15:17:46 »
So...I quite like the name "ogre ergo" - the palindromic symmetry of it - and I started playing around with some spellings using mirrored letters.  For "ogre ergo" I came up with these:

ogrEƎrgo
ogrƎErgo
ogreǝrgo
ogrǝergo

OgrEƎrgO
OgrƎErgO
OgreǝrgO
OgrǝergO


And for "ergo ogre", these:

ErgoogrƎ   
ƎrgoogrE
ergoogrǝ
ǝrgoogre


And I did a few with a single capital O:

ErgOgrƎ   
ƎrgOgrE
ergOgrǝ
ǝrgOgre


I like ErgOgrƎ and ƎrgOgrE the best.  To me the arms of the capital E's look like claws grabbing for you while the capital O is the ogre's head.  Also, while looking for the code for the lettering, I discovered that a backwards E apparently means "there exists" in mathematics.  So...ogres exist :P

Feel free to use any of these if you like them, ctrlshiftba

Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 04 August 2019, 17:56:12 »
ƎrgOgrE

That's amazing I love it. I originally played around with this a bit too but it really works best with ergo coming first and really hate the name "ergo ogre"  :eek: That being said I'm going to work this in somewhere, somehow... Will probably reverse the first 'r' and 2nd 'g' to go full symmetry.

Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 04 August 2019, 18:04:39 »
Maybe in a future iteration add footprint for Elite-C / Proton-C with optional functionality. One thing I wish this board had (as well as all boards) was an integrated pointing device. TrackPoint is ideal, but a simple joystick or blackberry trackball is great too.

Sent from my Ono-Sendai Cyberspace 7 using Tapatalk

I hadn't thought of the extra functionality for the elite-c. When I get to the full size version of this layout ("the ogre king") I will widen the split enough to get the numpad in the middle and will have the space below I might experiment with something below. There will be space. Thanks for the suggestion.

Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 07 August 2019, 09:55:08 »
updated with new info about the split prototype and custom color options.

Offline whomad1215

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 07 August 2019, 13:37:34 »
An inexpensive split board that uses regular keycap sets looks amazing.

Offline RacerK1

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 07 August 2019, 16:30:58 »
Looks rad! Keep up the good work.

Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 07 August 2019, 16:37:28 »
Holy centered text, baTMan.

Offline Zephyraeon

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 07 August 2019, 20:55:27 »
Honestly I love this more than I should.

Online tvaro

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 05:39:36 »
im not too big of a fan of the jagged lines in the case but the actual concept itself is really cool imo
Current projects: N9 Ortho (production), WoB Extensions (IC)

Offline MajorKoos

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 08:51:15 »
This is so close...
Ideally I'd like a 7 degree angle to each hand similar to the Alice/LZ Ergo/MS Natural.

Offline SoraNoTenshi

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 09:28:53 »
Looks very interesting so far, let's see how it goes!


Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 08 August 2019, 16:34:59 »
Looks very interesting so far, let's see how it goes!

2,000 upvotes on the Reddit post is a strong indicator that this thing is gonna go!

I want my Ogre!

Offline Ghghop

  • Posts: 18
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 13:10:57 »
So originally I was only slightly excited about this project, but each time I look at it I get increasingly excited for it. It looks like my kind of endgame.

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 12 August 2019, 14:32:35 »
This thing makes sense on so many levels: the price, the versatility, the compatibility with most base sets. Great work!

Offline piit79

  • Posts: 246
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 13 August 2019, 02:11:45 »


updated with new info about the split prototype and custom color options.

Looks awesome! I'd like to see a larger bezel at the top for more symmetry but that's just a minor thing. The board reminds me of a "flying V" type of electric guitar

I understand that's probably what the thumb keys are for, but would you consider adding an option to use standard 2.25u Enter on the right? I would use a 2.25u space key for the thumb key instead - I don't think I'd want to get used to a thumb Enter easily, so it woulf be great to have the key where it's supposed to be

Offline sinnyc

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 28 August 2019, 11:15:44 »
How's the Ogre doing?  Any updates you can share?

Offline ctrlshiftba

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[IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 28 August 2019, 11:39:19 »
So Iíve been traveling on vacation and am at a software conference this week.

So hereís my plan for sept...

Iím working on making some PCB changes first. I want to make a change so that when in split the pro-micros mount underneath like an iris V2 or redox. This will allow placing the TRRS jacks where the pro-micros currently are. It will also allow me to perfectly align a single pro-micro when not split. I also need to add some additional options for thumb keys sizes as the 4 I did in the first prototype worked perfectly and I can take it farther. Last for the pcb Iím going to add the underglow option.

Once the pcb is finalized I can make adjustments to the cases and finalize. I expect to be done with all design by the end of September.

Iím also toying with the idea of an even more minimal kit with just the pcb a bottom pcb and components kinda like a plaid or ergodash.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 August 2019, 11:45:34 by ctrlshiftba »

Offline Ghghop

  • Posts: 18
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 28 August 2019, 14:36:40 »
So Iíve been traveling on vacation and am at a software conference this week.

So hereís my plan for sept...

Iím working on making some PCB changes first. I want to make a change so that when in split the pro-micros mount underneath like an iris V2 or redox. This will allow placing the TRRS jacks where the pro-micros currently are. It will also allow me to perfectly align a single pro-micro when not split. I also need to add some additional options for thumb keys sizes as the 4 I did in the first prototype worked perfectly and I can take it farther. Last for the pcb Iím going to add the underglow option.

Once the pcb is finalized I can make adjustments to the cases and finalize. I expect to be done with all design by the end of September.

Iím also toying with the idea of an even more minimal kit with just the pcb a bottom pcb and components kinda like a plaid or ergodash.

It sounds like you're being realistic and being thorough about the design. I am really looking forward to this!
Keep up the good work!

Offline SoraNoTenshi

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 12 September 2019, 03:40:41 »
So how's it looking?

Any updates on it? :)


Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 178
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 19 October 2019, 17:54:25 »
Checking in. Any update?

Offline _swagfrog

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 19 October 2019, 20:27:07 »
Do you have any plans of making it staggered?

Offline renolo

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 19 October 2019, 21:18:46 »
Pretty interested in the ogre thief for the hotswap, any estimates as to when a prototype will be made?
Doritos, Cheetos, or Fritos.  

Offline msting

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 19 October 2019, 21:45:10 »
I'm anxious for this as well. I'm missing too many nice keysets waiting for an Ergo set to show up.

Offline ctrlshiftbryan

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 06:55:08 »
Checking in. Any update?

Big update coming by Friday. I've been 'yak shaving' but the results will be worth it. Lots to share...

Offline ctrlshiftbryan

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 06:57:53 »
Pretty interested in the ogre thief for the hotswap, any estimates as to when a prototype will be made?

That shouldn't be too far off. Is your interest so that you don't have to solder anything? So kailh hot swap sockets? Or would mil maxx hat you soldered yourself be ok?

Offline ctrlshiftbryan

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Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 06:58:37 »
Do you have any plans of making it staggered?

Yes...

Offline renolo

  • Posts: 29
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 08:58:47 »
Pretty interested in the ogre thief for the hotswap, any estimates as to when a prototype will be made?

That shouldn't be too far off. Is your interest so that you don't have to solder anything? So kailh hot swap sockets? Or would mil maxx hat you soldered yourself be ok?

Well I mean, I really don't want to make the investment of buying a soldering kit, and, correct me if I'm wrong but, having to solder a hotswap kind of defeats the point doesn't it?

I'm pretty sure there's lots of people in my situation of "new to the hobby but want to try an ergo set without breaking the bank"

I wonder what a kit with kailh hotswaps would cost.....
Doritos, Cheetos, or Fritos.  

Offline ctrlshiftbryan

  • Posts: 14
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 09:31:18 »
Pretty interested in the ogre thief for the hotswap, any estimates as to when a prototype will be made?

That shouldn't be too far off. Is your interest so that you don't have to solder anything? So kailh hot swap sockets? Or would mil maxx hat you soldered yourself be ok?

Well I mean, I really don't want to make the investment of buying a soldering kit, and, correct me if I'm wrong but, having to solder a hotswap kind of defeats the point doesn't it?

I'm pretty sure there's lots of people in my situation of "new to the hobby but want to try an ergo set without breaking the bank"

I wonder what a kit with kailh hotswaps would cost.....

Well that is the plan eventually. It will just take a little longer and have to be a higher cost because instead of it being DIY you have to pay for the assembly of the pcb at the pcb fabricator as well as more expensive components compared to pro-micro. Based on other group buys I'd guess around $50-$60 for the PCB alone with a MOQ around 100. This doesn't leave very much left over for the acrylic case so it will definitely be more than $100 when it happens.

Offline piit79

  • Posts: 246
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 20 October 2019, 13:42:47 »


Well that is the plan eventually. It will just take a little longer and have to be a higher cost because instead of it being DIY you have to pay for the assembly of the pcb at the pcb fabricator as well as more expensive components compared to pro-micro. Based on other group buys I'd guess around $50-$60 for the PCB alone with a MOQ around 100. This doesn't leave very much left over for the acrylic case so it will definitely be more than $100 when it happens.

I definitely want in on this, but I'd prefer keeping it simple. I understand the appeal of presoldered hotswap sockets but I think they would increase the price significantly.

Offline Lexxxed

  • Posts: 2
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 26 December 2019, 04:46:46 »
What's the latest news?

I'd be in for at least one - split. Would like hot swap (kailh) and rgb led per key - happy to solder it myself. Pro micro is okay but usbc and arm microwould be better (proton c) as faster and more storage. Also I would like a case with tenting, please.

Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #39 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 10:55:31 »
Hoping for some news and a bump to keep this visible.

Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:22:56 »
major update coming soon... The final designs are finished for the PCB with my round 3 prototypes I should receive them tomorrow. I never posted an update from my 2nd round of prototyping the PCB but there are some pics here. https://imgur.com/gallery/2lm9Rsy  Will have a major updates with all details on final designs by this weekend.

Offline psxndc

  • Posts: 178
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 11:45:59 »
That is doooooooope. Love the breakaway/single vs double approach. Very cool.

Offline sinnyc

  • Posts: 27
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #42 on: Tue, 07 January 2020, 20:43:15 »
Will have a major updates with all details on final designs by this weekend.

Nice!

Offline Gonsterek

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #43 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 01:48:09 »
i'm definitely interested into staggered one made out of wood

Offline bananasplit_00

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 14 January 2020, 02:48:23 »
Def interested, i like how it looks!

Offline Ghghop

  • Posts: 18
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 15 January 2020, 10:45:55 »
Been waiting for some proto-shots and I am ready to throw the money at you once this launches!

Offline yuppie

  • Posts: 309
Re: [IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 15 January 2020, 11:03:03 »
Pretty sick design
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Offline ctrlshiftba

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    • ctrlshiftba
[IC] ogre ergo
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 21 January 2020, 20:30:47 »
Not exactly the proper update I planned but...

Hereís a bunch of pics from the round 3 of prototypes. Added comments to explain a few things. https://imgur.com/gallery/KIWP5Hu

Targeting feb GB date although most likely will be March because Chinese New Year and need to do 1 more prototype round.

Iím still tweaking the design for the acrylic cases. I also still need to add an acrylic case for the FR plate option. That will be an acrylic case with a removable FR universal plate.

I have a universal acrylic plate but with clear low profile or acrylic tops itís is not visually pretty so Iím thinking about adding fixed plate options for the 3 major layouts.

The universal plate and pcb supports multiple options for most of the outer column and thumb keys. Left and right half are completely symmetrical in there options.

The 3 major layouts will be ďalmost symmetricalĒ (GMK minimal in these pics), tkl (GMK wavez in pics) and ďdoxĒ (SA Godspeed ergodox caps in pics). These will be the high profile tops that are a fixed layout.

I was planning this to be the final pcb prototype but Iím going with a different factory and I want to order a small batch prototype run before the big one for the GB so Iím gonna have to do a 4th prototype. Also made a few nonfunctional mistakes in the silkscreen legends.

The manufacturer for pcb I used (all pcb) had major issues with the black matte solder mask quality and there customer service was very lacking resolving it so I do t trust them to do the group buy. Planning on switching to pcbway.

The plan on color options for now is clear (finger print magnet), frosted, Matt black and matte white top and bottom layer with clear acrylic plates and mid layers. Birchwood that can be easily color match painted to match the caps will alse be options instead of the clear acrylic inners.


Thanks for all the support and interest.



A final glamour shot. Ignore my messy basement in the background https://imgur.com/gallery/kYEoN0k
« Last Edit: Tue, 21 January 2020, 20:44:25 by ctrlshiftba »

Offline bananasplit_00

  • Posts: 41
  • Location: Sweden
Re: [IC] ogre ergo - updated 01-21-2020
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 22 January 2020, 01:07:41 »
Looks nice, looking forward too it