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Author Topic: Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question  (Read 3872 times)

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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 14:39:59 »
There's something I just mentioned in the NKRO Nonsense thread but has been bothering me for a while now.

I've got my Model M layout modified in software with CapsLock as CTRL and both CTRL keys used as other modifiers. Which works very well except that CAPS (now CTRL)+SHIFT blocks some keys - most notably CTRL/CAPS+SHIFT+s.

Unicomp sells new boards with the "Linux" layout (that is; left CTRL is CapsLock, and CapsLock is CTRL). I expect those use the same matrix as the standard Model M and so they'd have the same issues as my original IBM Model M, but maybe (just maybe) not.

If anyone has that board, can you check?
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Offline bigpook

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:00:49 »
You using xmodmap to remap the keys?

I have a unicomp spacesaver with the linux layout. If I can find the time tonight I will check it out.
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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:08:17 »
Quote from: bigpook;190579
You using xmodmap to remap the keys?

I have a unicomp spacesaver with the linux layout. If I can find the time tonight I will check it out.

Yes, I'm using xmodmap. I'm assuming they do change the controller firmware or something to swap the CTRL/CAPS in the board itself, or do you have to remap things in software too for those boards?

Anyway, thanks in advance. :)
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Offline aegrotatio

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:10:45 »
I have a Space Saver with Caps Lock remapped to Ctrl in Linux.  I just tried Caps Lock - Shift - S using "xev" and the S does not register an event at all.  Honestly, I don't see the utility that such a keystroke would give, and that's coming from a daily Emacs user.

For giggles, the "real" Ctrl - Shift - S does register an event.  It's most likely in the matrix so firmware programming in the board probably doesn't register the 'S,' either.  They don't say anything about rewiring anything so wouldn't the matrix still be the same?

And I curse the fact that their "Ctrl" keycap to fit into Caps Lock still has a "step" in it.  Sheesh.  Talk about not knowing the market.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:14:26 by aegrotatio »
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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:17:43 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;190585
I have a Space Saver with Caps Lock remapped to Ctrl in Linux.  I just tried Caps Lock - Shift - S using "xev" and the S does not register an event at all.  Honestly, I don't see the utility that such a keystroke would give, and that's coming from a daily Emacs user.
As I said above, CAPS is my only CTRL key. And CTRL+SHIFT+s is quite a common key combo these days, even in Unix land.

And Emacs doesn't use CTRL+shift+letter combos by default since those don't work in terminal emulation. :) That's why it's only a nagging problem for me instead of a show stopper.

Quote
For giggles, the "real" Ctrl - Shift - S does register an event.  It's most likely in the matrix so firmware programming in the board probably doesn't register the 'S,' either.  They don't say anything about rewriting anything so wouldn't the matrix still be the same?
I suspect so, but then again, blocking this particular combo is pretty annoying if you use common desktop apps even on Linux.

Quote
And I curse the fact that their "Ctrl" keycap to fit into Caps Lock still has a "step" in it.  Sheesh.  Talk about not knowing the market.
I know. You do get used to it fairly quickly, though.
« Last Edit: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:21:16 by Superfluous Parentheses »
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Offline aegrotatio

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:22:16 »
Yeah I didn't think of that.
I do nearly all my work in the tty so I'm well-versed in its limitations, like CTRL-2 I have had to remap to CTRL-Space.  Nowadays these are all valid key combinations in the tty, but I just never adjusted.

But to the point, what occasion do you type CTRL-SHIFT-S?  I'm curious.

Your point stands and I'd like to know about that Unicomp, too.
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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:29:23 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;190600
But to the point, what occasion do you type CTRL-SHIFT-S?  I'm curious.

Mostly, GIMP - it's the common combo for the "Save as..." file dialog on Gnome (and also Windows and Mac, IIRC).
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Offline aegrotatio

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:34:41 »
Quote from: Superfluous Parentheses;190607
Mostly, GIMP - it's the common combo for the "Save as..." file dialog on Gnome (and also Windows and Mac, IIRC).


Oh, I always just did Alt, F, A for that.
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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 15:40:49 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;190615
Oh, I always just did Alt, F, A for that.


Ah yes. I could get used to that, even if it's ugly :) Thanks.
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Offline JBert

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 16:59:00 »
Quote from: aegrotatio;190585
And I curse the fact that their "Ctrl" keycap to fit into Caps Lock still has a "step" in it.  Sheesh.  Talk about not knowing the market.
I know it's off topic, but they probably pulled that one from their model F stock. It had a stepped Ctrl key as well.
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Offline kishy

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 07 June 2010, 17:27:50 »
Quote from: JBert;190662
I know it's off topic, but they probably pulled that one from their model F stock. It had a stepped Ctrl key as well.


Nah, it's a Caps Lock key with a different legend applied (going from photos at least, and what other people have said).
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Offline Superfluous Parentheses

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 04:58:24 »
bigpook messaged me to say that CTRL+SHIFT+s works fine on the Linux layout boards.

Interesting, that. It means that either the matrix is different on the Linux layouts or they're doing something clever in the controller.
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Offline spear

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 15:53:00 »
Not sure why it didn't work for aegrotatio, but CAPS+SHIFT+s seems to work fine on my Unicomp SpaceSaver (default layout, USB), with CAPS remapped to CTRL in Linux using modified XKB config files.  I checked with both xev and gimp.
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Offline Rajagra

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 16:38:57 »
Aqua's keytest shows codes after registry mappings are done, but before programs like AutoHotkey or the keyboards language driver make changes. (At least in XP & Vista.)

One great feature of Aqua is that it reports scan codes for keys it doesn't recognise, provided Windows passes something through.
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Offline bigpook

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 19:03:22 »
I have the unicomp spacesaver with the linux layout where the Caps and Cntrl key are swapped along with the escape and the tilde key. It would have been nice if they included the backspace and pipe key but whatever.

Running it clean with no xmodmap and using xev Shift-Cntrl-s register as S in xev.

Using gimp the same key strokes act as 'file save'

I have a 'normal' layout unicomp space saver that I can try it on.....brb
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Offline bigpook

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 19:29:51 »
It even works on the regular unicomp spacesaver. Where Caps is next to the a key and Cntrl is in the lower left corner.

If it matters, the unicomp with the linux layout is ps/2 and the normal unicomp is usb.
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Offline bigpook

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 20:02:11 »
no worries, ripster. I will go back to sleep now. : )
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Offline Xuan

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 09 June 2010, 22:37:56 »
Caps+Shift+s works fine in my customizer.

I think old M's and Unicomps use different matrix.
For instance Caps+LShift+2 doesn't work in my grey label, but works fine in my customizer (I think it worked ok in a blue label, but I'm not sure).
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Offline aegrotatio

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:06:12 »
Quote from: spear;191357
Not sure why it didn't work for aegrotatio, but CAPS+SHIFT+s seems to work fine on my Unicomp SpaceSaver (default layout, USB), with CAPS remapped to CTRL in Linux using modified XKB config files.  I checked with both xev and gimp.

Most likely because I'm using a 1993 blue label mini through a PS/2-to-USB converter with GNOME remapping Caps Lock to Ctrl.
And, more to the point, I'm stupid and didn't pay attention to the OP.
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Offline aegrotatio

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:24:41 »
Quote from: ripster;191672
So to summarize....

Caps-LShift-S doesn't work on a IBM Model M with PS/2.  

Caps-LShift-S does on a Unicomp SpaceSaver with USB.

If anyone has a 42H or a Unicomp Customizer please try it.

Otherwise I'm ready to declare USB Da Winnah!


Now I have a question.  Should I order a Customizer in USB or PS/2 versions?
Also, how different are they internally, such as, is it one of those auto-sensing boards that just notices the pin signals, or is the PS/2 really a different board from the USB?
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Offline itlnstln

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Unicomp Linux CTRL/CAPS and matrix question
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 10 June 2010, 12:27:04 »
What, exactly, does that test show?
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