Inconsistency with R2 Realforce?

[directheatedtriode]

I had an older 55g Realforce a few years ago but I can't recall too much about the switch feel, just that I sold it in favor of the HHKB layout. But since getting into customs/older ANSI boards I'm finding myself coming back to TKL. I just got a 55g R2 and the keys feel pretty stiff and a few keys feel stiffer than others, like the V key feeling a bit stiffer than others, or a rather heavy spacebar. And the F key feels lighter. Page up/down feel much lighter and snappier.

Just wondering if there are some quality control issues with these? Haven't read anything Topre related for quite some time.

Edit: I figured out the spacebar, there is a spring over the slider?

[rxc92]

Almost everyone seems to like the new spacebar design better fwiw. Are you sure you didn’t buy the variable model by accident? Otherwise give it a few days to break in the domes a bit, they do feel different when new.

[Polymer]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

[directheatedtriode]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

[Sup]

I never felt a difference between the keys on my R1 Realforce 45 and 55G. My Topre HHKB Pro 1 feels consistent all around the board though.

[Polymer]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

Why isn't the coin thing accurate?  As long as you're putting them on in a consistent way....

Either way, there is a bit of variance...some are better than others...

Is the V key really that much different that it bothers you during normal typing??  Or is it because you're looking at each key as an individual key and checking each thing to find every minute difference?  To me this is the difference between using MX Browns..and pressing them slowly to see how they feel...

[directheatedtriode]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

Why isn't the coin thing accurate?  As long as you're putting them on in a consistent way....

Either way, there is a bit of variance...some are better than others...

Is the V key really that much different that it bothers you during normal typing??  Or is it because you're looking at each key as an individual key and checking each thing to find every minute difference?  To me this is the difference between using MX Browns..and pressing them slowly to see how they feel...

I was asking if using coins was an accurate way to do it, not making a statement that it wasn't.

The keyboard feels fine when typing at speed. It's just a bit disappointing to feel these minor differences when slowly pressing keys on a ~ $230 keyboard. I expect my cup holder in my Honda Civic to rattle occasionally until I push a piece down. I would not expect the same thing in a large Mercedes sedan. In general the right side cluster of keys and function row feels a bit lighter than the alphas/number row/bottom row.

I will agree with the previous poster that the spacebar feels much improved from the 87u I had, the stabilizers are much better quality and it feels solid with no rattle.

[Sintpinty]

What exactly do they mean by the variable weight topres? What makes them so special from the others?

[Rob27shred]

What exactly do they mean by the variable weight topres? What makes them so special from the others?

Nothing makes them special IMO, in fact they seem to be the least liked weighting profile. What they mean by variable weighting is that they use 30g, 45g, & 55g domes in one board with them strategically placed to where your stronger & weaker fingers are (55g is just on the Esc & spacebar I think).

[Polymer]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

Why isn't the coin thing accurate?  As long as you're putting them on in a consistent way....

Either way, there is a bit of variance...some are better than others...

Is the V key really that much different that it bothers you during normal typing??  Or is it because you're looking at each key as an individual key and checking each thing to find every minute difference?  To me this is the difference between using MX Browns..and pressing them slowly to see how they feel...

I was asking if using coins was an accurate way to do it, not making a statement that it wasn't.

The keyboard feels fine when typing at speed. It's just a bit disappointing to feel these minor differences when slowly pressing keys on a ~ $230 keyboard. I expect my cup holder in my Honda Civic to rattle occasionally until I push a piece down. I would not expect the same thing in a large Mercedes sedan. In general the right side cluster of keys and function row feels a bit lighter than the alphas/number row/bottom row.

I will agree with the previous poster that the spacebar feels much improved from the 87u I had, the stabilizers are much better quality and it feels solid with no rattle.

I'm not disagreeing with what you would like to see...but I think if you looked into Topre prior to buying, you'd know there is some variance in the stiffness of each of the keys...it isn't a huge difference but it has been a known fact for many years.  The only time I would be concerned is if it was very noticeable when typing which probably means there is a 10g+ difference in the keys...

There are some that feel the rubber gets stiffer over time..although I haven't noticed that...

[Rob27shred]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

Why isn't the coin thing accurate?  As long as you're putting them on in a consistent way....

Either way, there is a bit of variance...some are better than others...

Is the V key really that much different that it bothers you during normal typing??  Or is it because you're looking at each key as an individual key and checking each thing to find every minute difference?  To me this is the difference between using MX Browns..and pressing them slowly to see how they feel...

I was asking if using coins was an accurate way to do it, not making a statement that it wasn't.

The keyboard feels fine when typing at speed. It's just a bit disappointing to feel these minor differences when slowly pressing keys on a ~ $230 keyboard. I expect my cup holder in my Honda Civic to rattle occasionally until I push a piece down. I would not expect the same thing in a large Mercedes sedan. In general the right side cluster of keys and function row feels a bit lighter than the alphas/number row/bottom row.

I will agree with the previous poster that the spacebar feels much improved from the 87u I had, the stabilizers are much better quality and it feels solid with no rattle.

I'm not disagreeing with what you would like to see...but I think if you looked into Topre prior to buying, you'd know there is some variance in the stiffness of each of the keys...it isn't a huge difference but it has been a known fact for many years.  The only time I would be concerned is if it was very noticeable when typing which probably means there is a 10g+ difference in the keys...

There are some that feel the rubber gets stiffer over time..although I haven't noticed that...

Yeah I haven't experienced that myself either, in fact I've experienced the opposite where domes will tend to break in & get a tiny bit softer with use. Although if we are talking about 10, 12, 15 year old domes, then I guess they could start degrading in a way that makes them stiffer?

[Sintpinty]

What exactly do they mean by the variable weight topres? What makes them so special from the others?

Nothing makes them special IMO, in fact they seem to be he least liked weighting profile. What they mean by variable weighting is that they use 30g, 45g, & 55g domes in one board with them strategically placed to where your stronger & weaker fingers are (55g is just on the Esc & spacebar I think).

Oh

[rxc92]

I'm not disagreeing with what you would like to see...but I think if you looked into Topre prior to buying, you'd know there is some variance in the stiffness of each of the keys...it isn't a huge difference but it has been a known fact for many years. 

 
 
Wrong.

[Polymer]

which part is wrong?   

The +/- 5g has been around for YEARS.  Some keyboards exhibit more consistency than others...but if you're telling me there isn't any variance and they're all exactly 45g...I can guarantee you that is wrong. 

Personally I haven't seen 40g/50g on RF 45g...but I have seen it vary on the plus or minus side of 45g. 

[directheatedtriode]

There is some variance with the domes...at least with the original RFs there was..+/- 5g although I haven't seen one for myself that had say both 40g and 50g....Plenty of boards I've seen with more than a 5g difference between two different keys..

R2s I don't know if they are still impacted by this..but I don't know if there is anything to make me believe the domes are any different..

Definitely 55g uniform, and I verified it with the model number. Posting from my phone right now so I can't post the exact model number here.

Is putting US 5c nickel coins on the keys an accurate way to measure the weighting?

And is possible to open an R2 without removing the "Do No Remove OK" sticker on the back of it (which has a screw underneath)? The old 87u was just held in place by clips and didn't have this screw.

After having some time to type on it the V key I mentioned does feel only slightly more heavy than the rest of the alphas.

Why isn't the coin thing accurate?  As long as you're putting them on in a consistent way....

Either way, there is a bit of variance...some are better than others...

Is the V key really that much different that it bothers you during normal typing??  Or is it because you're looking at each key as an individual key and checking each thing to find every minute difference?  To me this is the difference between using MX Browns..and pressing them slowly to see how they feel...

I was asking if using coins was an accurate way to do it, not making a statement that it wasn't.

The keyboard feels fine when typing at speed. It's just a bit disappointing to feel these minor differences when slowly pressing keys on a ~ $230 keyboard. I expect my cup holder in my Honda Civic to rattle occasionally until I push a piece down. I would not expect the same thing in a large Mercedes sedan. In general the right side cluster of keys and function row feels a bit lighter than the alphas/number row/bottom row.

I will agree with the previous poster that the spacebar feels much improved from the 87u I had, the stabilizers are much better quality and it feels solid with no rattle.

I'm not disagreeing with what you would like to see...but I think if you looked into Topre prior to buying, you'd know there is some variance in the stiffness of each of the keys...it isn't a huge difference but it has been a known fact for many years.  The only time I would be concerned is if it was very noticeable when typing which probably means there is a 10g+ difference in the keys...

There are some that feel the rubber gets stiffer over time..although I haven't noticed that...

I'm not new to Topre, I've owned 2 HHKB 2 Pro, both were flawless weighting wise. I moved on from them since I was using more standard keyboard layouts at work and it was slowing me down whenever I'd go back to my own HHKB (also in general I've just come to disliking using layer keys) hence buying the 55g R2 TKL. I've also owned an 87u TKL, but that has been a very long since I had that one.

[Polymer]

You didn't notice any variability in any of those?

I own a fair few Topre...and I have tried many others...They're not perfectly uniform..They're relatively uniform and perfectly fine..but there is some variability.

Maybe we're looking at this differently...Maybe your key is hugely different and that's why you notice it more.  Have you tried the nickel thing to see what the difference is between that and other keys?

[mizzoperator]

You either bought the variable model on accident, got a bad batch, or the rubber dome gods really dislike you.

[Hyde]

I just bought one recently (R2 55g Silent) while I wasn't paying attention too much, but I don't think I noticed any big inconsistencies.

But I do find domes get softer as you break them in, initially it was very sharp tactility and hard.  But after a week it's more comfortable to use now.

I'll keep you updated as time goes on lol.

[directheatedtriode]

I feel like an update is in order. I've now used it as my sole DD since starting the thread and the only explanation I can think of is it needed to be used/broken in (maybe it was sitting around in a warehouse for a while as it was brand new but the R2 model has been around a while) because now the keys feel completely even. Now even slowly pressing the keys they all feel the same.

I've also been able to borrow an older 87u 55g to compare it to and the weight feels the same. Where there is a significant difference is how much better the spacebar is in the R2. This is a massive improvement from the 87u; the R2 has a really nice "lunk lunk lunk" deep satisfying sound to it with zero rattle.

I actually like this so much that I sort of get why so many of us (I constantly see this being asked on forums) are looking for a Cherry switch that feels like Topre.

I just bought one recently (R2 55g Silent) while I wasn't paying attention too much, but I don't think I noticed any big inconsistencies.

But I do find domes get softer as you break them in, initially it was very sharp tactility and hard.  But after a week it's more comfortable to use now.

I'll keep you updated as time goes on lol.

Any chance have you used an HHKB Type S? I'm wondering how the R2 55g silent compares in terms of sound. I like this R2 so much that I am thinking about adding a silent for another location.

[rxc92]

Realforce/HHKB boards sound and feel significantly different. Realforce boards use a thick, inflexible plate, while the HHKB plate is much thinner/lighter due to design restrictions. I personally will say that, having used both a Type-S and my R2 for over 1.5 years as daily drivers, I prefer the Realforce. If you're the kind of person who likes metal plates/cases for instance, you'd definitely rather go with the Realforce. However, if you like a plate with more give, you could give the HHKB a try.

[Polymer]

Realforce/HHKB boards sound and feel significantly different. Realforce boards use a thick, inflexible plate, while the HHKB plate is much thinner/lighter due to design restrictions. I personally will say that, having used both a Type-S and my R2 for over 1.5 years as daily drivers, I prefer the Realforce. If you're the kind of person who likes metal plates/cases for instance, you'd definitely rather go with the Realforce. However, if you like a plate with more give, you could give the HHKB a try.

The HHKB plate?  Its part of the case...as in the switch housing itself is part of the case.  There isn't a plate at all....and it isn't give...while there might be situations where you feel that, bottom out is the slider on rubber on to the PCB in BOTH situations...you're not clacking against the housing...There is something though that makes it feel difference..eg. Realforce feel slightly lighter than HHKBs...but that could just be the sound more than anything else...

It definitely is NOT the same comparison of an MX switch on a metal plate vs PCB mounted. 

[directheatedtriode]

Realforce/HHKB boards sound and feel significantly different. Realforce boards use a thick, inflexible plate, while the HHKB plate is much thinner/lighter due to design restrictions. I personally will say that, having used both a Type-S and my R2 for over 1.5 years as daily drivers, I prefer the Realforce. If you're the kind of person who likes metal plates/cases for instance, you'd definitely rather go with the Realforce. However, if you like a plate with more give, you could give the HHKB a try.

If you see my other posts in this thread I've owned HHKB2s I no longer want to use that layout and am TKL only.

I'm specifically interested in the silenced R2 and how it sounds compared to the HHKB2 Type S because I owned one of those and enjoyed it.

[rxc92]

Realforce/HHKB boards sound and feel significantly different. Realforce boards use a thick, inflexible plate, while the HHKB plate is much thinner/lighter due to design restrictions. I personally will say that, having used both a Type-S and my R2 for over 1.5 years as daily drivers, I prefer the Realforce. If you're the kind of person who likes metal plates/cases for instance, you'd definitely rather go with the Realforce. However, if you like a plate with more give, you could give the HHKB a try.

If you see my other posts in this thread I've owned HHKB2s I no longer want to use that layout and am TKL only.

I'm specifically interested in the silenced R2 and how it sounds compared to the HHKB2 Type S because I owned one of those and enjoyed it.

 
 
Thought I addressed that in my post, but like I said, the R2 feels much more solid (less give). It's also quieter than both R1 and HHKB. 

[Polymer]

Except you think the HHKB has a plate....

[directheatedtriode]

Realforce/HHKB boards sound and feel significantly different. Realforce boards use a thick, inflexible plate, while the HHKB plate is much thinner/lighter due to design restrictions. I personally will say that, having used both a Type-S and my R2 for over 1.5 years as daily drivers, I prefer the Realforce. If you're the kind of person who likes metal plates/cases for instance, you'd definitely rather go with the Realforce. However, if you like a plate with more give, you could give the HHKB a try.

If you see my other posts in this thread I've owned HHKB2s I no longer want to use that layout and am TKL only.

I'm specifically interested in the silenced R2 and how it sounds compared to the HHKB2 Type S because I owned one of those and enjoyed it.

 
 
Thought I addressed that in my post, but like I said, the R2 feels much more solid (less give). It's also quieter than both R1 and HHKB.

You keep mentioning your R2 with no specific indication if it's the silenced version. Which is why I quoted the guy that said he bought a silenced R2.

Yes, like you I really like the R2.

[rxc92]

Except you think the HHKB has a plate....

 
 
Is that relevant at all? I've owned one and like every other one, it has a plastic backing behind the keyboard. Not sure if that's technically 'not a plate', but that doesn't change my experience with it in the slightest.

[Polymer]

Except you think the HHKB has a plate....

 
 
Is that relevant at all? I've owned one and like every other one, it has a plastic backing behind the keyboard. Not sure if that's technically 'not a plate', but that doesn't change my experience with it in the slightest.

It can have both a plastic backing behind the keyboard and a plate..so not sure what either of those two have to do with.

It doesn't change your experience..but given you've been wrong (factually) about the rubber domes in Topre and the plate that the HHKB apparently has according to you..and then describing what a plate would actually be...

But let's talk facts

Topre Rubber domes DO have variability..they're not all the same.  (You said this statement was wrong, it is true).
HHKBs do NOT have a plate.
Plastic backing behind a keyboard - based on that description, it is not a plate at all...or maybe your description is just poor.

I mean, anyone that's owned a HHKB can see it doesn't have a plate..heck, anyone that's seen one with the keycaps off knows it doesn't have a plate even in pictures....How do you NOT know it doesn't have a plate if you own one?  No idea...

[typo]

The realforce I feel is nicer built. I get higher WPM on the HHKB and I get paid by lines of code. I am not sure why I get higher WPM but I just do. I was amazed how inexpensive HHKB classic is now. It is a good deal. I don't see anything wrong with it. I still prefer custom keyboards. Topre or MX. I just like exactly what I wanted. I do wish HHKB had R2 actuation point. I have felt cup rubber gets stiff over many years. Like maybe 65g. Please don't hate on me again. I see you are here.