Author Topic: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!  (Read 2700 times)

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Online NoPunIn10Did

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Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 09:35:02 »
Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement



When you are designing a Numpad kit, please consider the inclusion of the above pictured keycaps.  The positioning of the legends and inclusion of sublegends is left up to the designer.

The big thing I want to point out is the R1 Equals key.  That is often forgotten, probably because people remember to replace the R2/3 2u plus with R3 1u plus and R2 1u minus keys, but they don't remember that something else will need to go in the place of the original R1 1u minus.

Numpad Kit Planning Guide on Keyboard Layout Editor

Example Layouts with Numpad Equals

While not all of the below examples are mechanicals, they are provided to show that a standalone equals in either Row 1 or Row 0 is commonplace.  I had received several questions about this key and was surprised others had not recognized it.

Standard Mac Full-Size Keyboard (modern)Apple Standard Keyboard (1987)

Microsoft Ergonomic Keyboard


Standalone Numpads






« Last Edit: Wed, 18 December 2019, 10:32:15 by NoPunIn10Did »

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 11:02:04 »
Don't forget to add (as optional items) the numpad comma in BR and R3. Note as well that the numpad comma in BR is required in several non-English layouts.

Also, note that 1U numpad+ and numpad-, as used on 1800 and 1800-like keyboards, place 'em in R3 and R2 respectively (as much as I personally hate that, but that's a different matteR).

Online NoPunIn10Did

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 12:48:33 »
Don't forget to add (as optional items) the numpad comma in BR and R3. Note as well that the numpad comma in BR is required in several non-English layouts.
Which locales require this?  Would it be the sort of key that should be included in a NorDe kit, for instance?

Also, note that 1U numpad+ and numpad-, as used on 1800 and 1800-like keyboards, place 'em in R3 and R2 respectively (as much as I personally hate that, but that's a different matteR).
Ugh, I thought I had gotten the order of those two correct, but it seems like some keyboards put plus on top while others put the plus on the bottom.  Very frustrating.  I'll update the image and the KLE.

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 12:55:04 »
Don't forget to add (as optional items) the numpad comma in BR and R3. Note as well that the numpad comma in BR is required in several non-English layouts.
Which locales require this?  Would it be the sort of key that should be included in a NorDe kit, for instance?

At least: German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, Icelandic, Estonian, Italian, Portuguese (Portugal) and French (Belgium). There are some more that SHOULD require it but don't (Spanish (both), Portuguese (Brazil), French (France)) and surely the numpad comma is required by several other national languages I haven't documented yet. See http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Possible-International-Kits-for-Custom-Sets/ for more information.



Also, note that 1U numpad+ and numpad-, as used on 1800 and 1800-like keyboards, place 'em in R3 and R2 respectively (as much as I personally hate that, but that's a different matteR).
Ugh, I thought I had gotten the order of those two correct, but it seems like some keyboards put plus on top while others put the plus on the bottom.  Very frustrating.  I'll update the image and the KLE.

Indeed. Also, don't forget the homing 5!

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 13:04:07 »
Am I the only person that questions why = is in the - position when there's an extra key on a numberpad?  I always put - in it's standard place and use the extra - or a 'geek hack' key (two lines) as = below it, even if there's an = in the set, it just makes more sense that way.  No good if your pad isn't programmable though.
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Online NoPunIn10Did

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 13:04:31 »

At least: German, Danish, Norwegian, Swedish/Finnish, Icelandic, Estonian, Italian, Portuguese (Portugal) and French (Belgium). There are some more that SHOULD require it but don't (Spanish (both), Portuguese (Brazil), French (France)) and surely the numpad comma is required by several other national languages I haven't documented yet. See http://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/Possible-International-Kits-for-Custom-Sets/ for more information.


Thanks for all the notes!  I have updated the image and KLE gist accordingly.  I can't find an example of an R3 comma, however.

As to the plus/minus order, the way I had it before appears to be a bit antiquated.  I was basing that on an older Apple standard, but I should have double-checked against their newer keyboards.

Online NoPunIn10Did

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 13:08:03 »
Am I the only person that questions why = is in the - position when there's an extra key on a numberpad?  I always put - in it's standard place and use the extra - or a 'geek hack' key (two lines) as = below it, even if there's an = in the set, it just makes more sense that way.  No good if your pad isn't programmable though.

I personally find the numpad equals sign very useful in the context of doing work in Excel, especially when the numpad also includes parentheses (though that's admittedly nonstandard).

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 13:23:17 »
Am I the only person that questions why = is in the - position when there's an extra key on a numberpad?  I always put - in it's standard place and use the extra - or a 'geek hack' key (two lines) as = below it, even if there's an = in the set, it just makes more sense that way.  No good if your pad isn't programmable though.

I've said for a long, long, long time that the top left corner key should be numpad equals, and Num Lock should NOT be in the base layer at all (heck, the IBM Model M SSK, released in 1986, moved it to Shift-Scroll Lock).

I understand (even though I don't agree with) the idea of making numpad zero and numpad plus 2U in size, but Num Lock in the base layer? NOPE.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 15:12:18 »
What keyboard layouts use an equals key in the numeric keyboard besides Macs?  I agree that it's great to have when doing work in Excel, and I wish my Windows keyboards at work had one.

Online NoPunIn10Did

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 16:33:31 »
What keyboard layouts use an equals key in the numeric keyboard besides Macs?  I agree that it's great to have when doing work in Excel, and I wish my Windows keyboards at work had one.

You answered your own question.  Mac-compatible numpads often have equals signs included.  Sometimes they're on R1, and sometimes they're above (equivalent to the F-row, typically R1 profile too).

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Numpad Kits Public Service Announcement: Remember Equals!
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 05 December 2019, 17:31:01 »
Am I the only person that questions why = is in the - position when there's an extra key on a numberpad?  I always put - in it's standard place and use the extra - or a 'geek hack' key (two lines) as = below it, even if there's an = in the set, it just makes more sense that way.  No good if your pad isn't programmable though.

I personally find the numpad equals sign very useful in the context of doing work in Excel, especially when the numpad also includes parentheses (though that's admittedly nonstandard).

What I meant was down the right side should be - in it's standard position then = and +.  I don't see the sense in moving - from it's normal position breaking muscle memory when switching between standard and split + layouts.

I've said for a long, long, long time that the top left corner key should be numpad equals, and Num Lock should NOT be in the base layer at all (heck, the IBM Model M SSK, released in 1986, moved it to Shift-Scroll Lock).

I understand (even though I don't agree with) the idea of making numpad zero and numpad plus 2U in size, but Num Lock in the base layer? NOPE.

 = in place of num lock is a good choice I hadn't considered for 2u + pads, I have it as a second escape which is also useful in spreadsheets.
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