Author Topic: KBC keyboard needs your advice  (Read 30779 times)

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Offline imsto

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:25:13 »
ligo had posted the post here http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=10219

infact it's the first Keybaord by KBC, all PBT, Nkey, removable cable, light on keys.

now, we should try to get some good ideas and advice about the layout.

plz say what you what to say and give us the advice so we can make a better one.  

thanks a lot..












« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:47:00 by imsto »
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Offline imsto

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:29:07 »
this keybaord is just a sample for pics and test.
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Offline itlnstln

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:32:11 »
Is it just me, or are the pics broken?

I'm behind a firewall, so it might be me, but my top secret firewall buster also displays them as broken.


Offline imsto

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:41:49 »
me  too..........
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Offline imsto

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« Reply #4 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:51:46 »
done
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Offline itlnstln

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 07:57:25 »
My suggestions are:

  • Cherry browns
  • Same layout as the HHKB (for familiarity's sake)
  • Easily available in the US

If these three things were to come true, I'd be all over it.  Quality keycaps would be nice, too, but you guys seem to do a pretty good job with that, anyway.


Offline imsto

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 08:05:52 »
thanks man
Cherry browns   brown blue black would be available  .
If the same as hhkb maybe there would be some problems about the patent.I am not sure.
Easily available in the US    I will put it on ebay.

this is not our job, we do this by spare time.   we felt realy busy in the last year...
imsto.cn
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Offline British

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 08:44:38 »
How about:
  • Choice of switches
  • ISO layout
  • Availability in Europe
:wink:

Offline imsto

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:11:39 »
we'd provide shipping all over this planet.
imsto.cn
imsto's AiKB Taobao Shop
IBM Model M*3, IBM M13,M5, IBM with balls.Cherry   3000  3494 3700 4100*6 700*2 11900 8113 DAS4 TG3 KBC PokerDucky09Ducky1087 apple pink alps Ducky bull,tiger,rabbit,dragon version No:0000002

Offline kriminal

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« Reply #9 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:14:20 »
links broken to me..
Geekhacked Filco FKBN87M/EB modified with Brown, black and blue cherries, doubleshot keycaps
Deck KBA-BL82 with Black cherries
Cherry G84-4100LCMDK-0 Cherry ML switches
Cherry G80-8200hpdus-2 Brown cherries
IBM Lexmark 51G8572 Model M Keyboard
Geekhacked Siig Minitouch KB1948
IBM Model M Mini 1397681

Offline imsto

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« Reply #10 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:16:33 »
Quote from: kriminal;193632
links broken to me..


see the Attached Images
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IBM Model M*3, IBM M13,M5, IBM with balls.Cherry   3000  3494 3700 4100*6 700*2 11900 8113 DAS4 TG3 KBC PokerDucky09Ducky1087 apple pink alps Ducky bull,tiger,rabbit,dragon version No:0000002

Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:20:14 »
Just sell me the case, the keys/plate? for alps, and the pcb/cord/chip. I'll take care of the switches.  I want the one with the function row. Looks awesome.  How much to the US?

Do you have different plates for alps and cherry, or do they use the same plate as well?  Or it looks like maybe no mounting plate?  

Is there a Japanese version?
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:26:14 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline jmpespxoreax

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:25:05 »
I think that the layout is awesome as it is. It helps for those of us with that layout in our muscle memory. However, you'll probably have to offer layout customization for others :P

Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:34:34 »
The layout looks awesome, it should be close to the siig as possible, but with a full function key row.  Also possibly with the function key swapped with the control/alt keys.  There was a lot of complaint with that originally from normal people.

If you can give me flat black caps with red lettering, it'd be my dream board totally.

I'd like to see the board mounted with alps as well as cherry, alps won't be easy to do without a mounting plate to keep the switches straight.  I had that trouble with my minitouch pcb.  I had to fashion a plate for the main keys, cause they get all wobly and out of place without one.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:39:04 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:44:03 »
Yeah I just noticed the function key rowed board has no arrow keys either.  That's one thing I always hated about the earlier hhkb light/pro.  They need to get rid of the duplicate keys and junk on the right side and add arrow keys there.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:47:12 »
Quote from: ripster;193646
Copy this but not the short spacebar and language keys.  Leave the Enter key, /, Backspace configuration the way you have it.
Show Image


Easy enough to remap the rest - don't worry about any HHKB patents.  They can't patent their layout.


It's iso too.  Just copy the minitouch without the function keys, it's the most universal design.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:49:36 »
At least the mystery is solved I guess.  So it is a kbc board.  Maybe this'll be really awesome.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline imsto

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 09:58:30 »
Quote from: chimera15;193636
Just sell me the case, the keys/plate? for alps, and the pcb/cord/chip. I'll take care of the switches.  I want the one with the function row. Looks awesome.  How much to the US?

Do you have different plates for alps and cherry, or do they use the same plate as well?  Or it looks like maybe no mounting plate?  

Is there a Japanese version?



maybe later the case and keys pcb would be available
there is not japanese version now, maybe later.
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Offline imsto

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:02:22 »
Quote from: ripster;193646
Copy this but not the short spacebar and language keys.  Leave the Enter key, /, Backspace configuration the way you have it.
Show Image


Easy enough to remap the rest - don't worry about any HHKB patents.  They can't patent their layout.

i like this layout, especially the small space key, I usually press the space key but left thumb,  I think it's not that important to make such a big space key.
most Chinese users used to use windows and paly game with left ctrl and alt
it's not a good choice to delet the left ctrl.
imsto.cn
imsto's AiKB Taobao Shop
IBM Model M*3, IBM M13,M5, IBM with balls.Cherry   3000  3494 3700 4100*6 700*2 11900 8113 DAS4 TG3 KBC PokerDucky09Ducky1087 apple pink alps Ducky bull,tiger,rabbit,dragon version No:0000002

Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:03:34 »
Something like this.  The big backspace, and l shaped return is a requirement for me to buy it.

 

With the function key version you can move the escape up to that row, and keep the siig blank space tab.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:07:19 »
With the function key position fixed.

Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:15:30 »
With tild and forward slash keys: With this version the backspace becomes delete when you press the function key.  Also function will be function keys in the top row, while function + alt is the numberpad.  Function alt makes backspace insert, or another key insert somewhere.



« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:26:08 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline itlnstln

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:20:05 »
Imsto, I think you're better off just building it and selling it instead of asking for opinions.  If you do want opinions, I think the best way to do it would be offer several options, and have people vote on them in a poll.  As far as layout goes, I think you're best off just using something that's already fairly common (HHKB or some other ANSI derivative).


Offline chimera15

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« Reply #23 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:27:52 »
Quote from: ripster;193664
Ugh.  

More like this.  Cram arrow keys into the right cluster.  Move that FCN key to the empty space on left.  Make sure the FCN key issues a scancode so if you don't like it's location you can move it any way you want it in AutoHotkey.  Done.
Show Image



oooooo..... this is pretty in dark theme.  I'll fix that sometime.

Nooo, you need to be able to press control/alt function keys with one hand and reach the others to be able to make it useful, since a lot of function keys require control+alt+f4 for instance.  It also leaves you working the numberpad with your left hand.  One of the problems with the super tiny layout, you really need two function keys to totally access the top row, if you have a number pad I'm realizing, but the function key on the right is totally unworkable.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:31:10 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline British

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:31:08 »
Quote from: jmpespxoreax;193641
I think that the layout is awesome as it is. It helps for those of us with that layout in our muscle memory. However, you'll probably have to offer layout customization for others :P

As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:

Offline chimera15

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« Reply #25 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:34:05 »
If you need everything to fit in an exact square, you extend the return out, and it gives you a truncated dsi smk-85 board which might be more workable, but will increase the size slightly.



Same idea, just squish everything on the right over but because of the larger enter key, you can fit a long backspace and a tild or escape key to the left of the 1 instead of having to shoehorn it in.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:37:27 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline itlnstln

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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:34:33 »
Quote from: British;193668
As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:


It's not even that so much as you will find a lot of members here think that ANSI is little more efficient than ISO, but YMMV.  I am always a fan of keeping things familiar unless you are going to do something radically different.


Offline ch_123

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« Reply #27 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:43:11 »
Quote from: British;193668
As usual, anything that doesn't pertain to the US doesn't exist...
Alas my dear supernumerary-twinky-key, I knew you well, and you'll be missed :pout:


There are many European members here. Very few of them actually use their native country's keyboard layout. There is a lot to be said for the US layout, in terms of the physical location of buttons, and the sensible mapping of keys, especially compared with some Central European monstrosities.

Offline British

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« Reply #28 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:50:08 »
Well, the only things I really regret ANSI is missing are said twinky key (AKA short left shift and <>) and the doubly-inverted-L-shaped enter.
And I would have probably be used to ANSI, were I to get swarmed by such keyboards at youth.
But I don't see many of those (if any) in France.

That twinky-key is a game-changer, in every meaning.

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #29 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:54:37 »
I think those are two of the keys Ch_123 is talking about.  I know some of the European members like ANSI better as those two keys are different bringing the left Shift and Enter closer to the home row.


Offline unicomp

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« Reply #30 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:57:32 »
Depending upon the price, this does seem like a good idea. Clearly the layout is somewhat debatable, however I am sure that a consensus can be reached.

What kind of price would this be selling for?

Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #31 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:58:55 »
I can't believe I am in a discussion about layouts.

Imsto:

Throw up poll with a few options, and let us vote.  I think you might be wasting your time asking us for suggestions.


Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #32 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 10:59:36 »
Quote from: unicomp;193680
I am sure that a consensus can be reached.

You haven't been at Geekhack for long have you?

EDIT:  Oh wait, you have.  You need to come around more often, then.


Offline itlnstln

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« Reply #33 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 11:06:02 »
That's funny.  I thought the "dock it and use a keyboard response" was pretty funny,too.  I realize that's not always practical, but at the same time, I probably wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time editing text on that thing.


Offline quadibloc

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« Reply #34 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 11:21:59 »
I am assuming (and, of course, I could be wrong) that the physical layout of the keys, as opposed to the assignment of functions to them, is fixed. Except that the ISO layout, as an alternative standard, would be a possible alternative. In that respect, I strongly favor the ANSI layout, because of the convenient location of the Enter key.

In another thread, I commented that the remote possibility (say, on some Linux systems) of the right and left Windows Shift keys serving different functions was enough to suggest one change to the layout as depicted: instead of replacing the right Windows Shift key by the Fn key, replace the Windows Menu key by the Fn key. Since Windows Menu is not a shift key, reaching it by an Fn-combination should be acceptable.

Other than that, I think the big issue would be to make the keyboard programmable. Some people would prefer a layout for the Fn-shifted keys like that of the HHKB, and others one like that of the upcoming MiniGuru. My own preference doesn't resemble either of those layouts.

When it comes to more radical changes:

For a product category between keyboards like yours, the HHKB, and the MiniGuru on the one hand, and a simple tenkeyless keyboard on the other, I've shown this illustration to the group:



to suggest that most of the keys outside the main typing area on a tenkeyless could be put in the traditional positions of the function keys, making it obvious how F1 through F12 would be reached with Fn, thus leading to a keyboard almost as compact as an HHKB, but a whole lot less intimidating (and therefore having a broader potential customer base).

Incidentally, the design as shown in the picture has the flaw of not having an Fn key; instead, one uses the key that would be Fn-shifted to F8 to set up one's choice of Fn key. I don't anticipate a real commercial design being that radical.

Offline Laggy-gaga

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« Reply #35 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 11:31:02 »
The pre-order price for KBC 40% will be around 120USD without postage,
but the point when it can come up.
Base on KBC  tenkeyless, I dare this 40% can make it before miniguru.
Working: Ducky Dragon Blue
Looking for: 356L
For sale:Benchmark DAC1+Stello U3+Amber,RS1i,GS1000i,HE400,HD650,w4r,se535LE
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #36 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 11:33:17 »
Quote from: itlnstln;193676
I think those are two of the keys Ch_123 is talking about.  I know some of the European members like ANSI better as those two keys are different bringing the left Shift and Enter closer to the home row.


I'm largely indifferent to that key - because I learned to type on an ISO layout, I tend to hit the left-most part of the key without much difficulty. My main issue with the ISO layout is the enter that requires you to move your hand to hit it. I suppose looking at the ISO layout, that if you do proper touch typing, you'd have to reach your pinky over further to hit left shift. The way I type has adapted to deal with this, apparently.

Truth be told, the main reason I use the US layout is because it's a pain in the ass to find good ISO layout keyboards for cheap.

Quote
Well, the only things I really regret ANSI is missing are said twinky key (AKA short left shift and <>) and the doubly-inverted-L-shaped enter.


So basically you dislike everything about the ANSI layout that is different to the ISO one :P

Quote
Base on KBC tenkeyless, I dare this 40% can make it before miniguru.


Who cares which one gets out first... the MiniGuru looks like a far more interesting product with trackpoint and programmability.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 14:10:23 by ch_123 »

Offline hoggy

  • * Ergonomics Moderator
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KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 14:39:09 »
I like it.  

Do all the keys have the same profile?  If so, I could swap the keycaps to a dvorak layout.
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline spolia optima

  • Posts: 580
  • Location: On the shores of the cosmic ocean...
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 14:48:41 »
Love it, but does it have a ten-key layer?
If not, dealbreaker.
A right-hand FN is okay if it's a toggle switch. if it's momentary, the left is bettah.

I have become so accustom to my netbook that I now prefer a staggered tenkey pad. So convenient!
keyboards!

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 15:51:16 »
Quote from: Laggy-gaga;193690
The pre-order price for KBC 40% will be around 120USD without postage,
but the point when it can come up.
Base on KBC  tenkeyless, I dare this 40% can make it before miniguru.


Is that the name of it? 40%? Or are you just referring to it's cut down nature? Is $120 with switches or without?
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 15:54:01 »
Quote from: ripster;193729
I've been saying that for ages.  Grab a laptop layout and jam it into a HHKB clone.

It's not hard.

Yeah, that would work.  You end up basically with what I showed, except no L shaped enter key.  I'm not sure it's possible to do though since the caps would be non standard, but the layout is almost exactly the same as my format.


« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 15:56:49 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:04:23 »
Ah I figured out how you can make my layout square based on the laptop keyboard, you just make the tab/shift/control keys bigger.  



That's like the perfect layout right there.  The only problem would be the number pad conflicting with the function keys when function is pressed really.

How does the hhkb handle that? It just doesnt have a number pad?  Oh yup, my hhhkb light doesn't have a number pad, that sucks.
« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:12:41 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:15:39 »


There, one function key turns on the number pad, the other function key the function row.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline lmnop

  • Posts: 574
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:16:16 »
miniguru is going to be a billion dollars.

my favorite layout


Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:18:11 »
Alternatively, you could get rid of the caps lock on the board, put the control where it should be, as I think is the preferred method, put the alt in the lower left, and use the other two buttons this leaves open for the two fn keys, and bury capslock in a function key somewhere on the board.
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:23:11 »
Quote from: lmnop;193755

Show Image

haahaa

That keyboard is missing a really, really small key that just says "vegetable".
LoLz
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline chimera15

  • Posts: 1441
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:25:29 »
Like this:

« Last Edit: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:27:44 by chimera15 »
Alps boards:
white real complicated: 1x modified siiig minitouch kb1903,  hhkb light2 english steampunk hack, wireless siig minitouch hack
white with rubber damper(cream)+clicky springs: 2x modified siig minitouch kb1903 1x modified siig minitouch kb1948
white fake simplified:   1x white smk-85, 1x Steampunk compact board hack
white real simplified: 1x unitek k-258
low profile: 1x mint m1242 in box
black: ultra mini wrist keyboard hack
blue: Japanese hhk2 lite hack, 1x siig minitouch pcb/doubleshot dc-2014 caps. kb1903, 1x modified kb1948 Siig minitouch
rainbow test boards:  mck-84sx


Offline clickclack

  • * Maker
  • Posts: 942
  • Board Chow EXTRAORDINAIRE
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 16 June 2010, 16:28:04 »
To chimera15-

Damn! You're on a mission! =P
862+ keyboards and counting!   R.I.P.ster          Vendor link ->Clack Factory

Offline British

  • Posts: 292
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 17 June 2010, 02:03:03 »
Quote from: ch_123;193692
Truth be told, the main reason I use the US layout is because it's a pain in the ass to find good ISO layout keyboards for cheap.

Cheap or not, it's a pain, from my very-limited experience.
Quote from: ch_123;193692
So basically you dislike everything about the ANSI layout that is different to the ISO one :P

Err... I thought there were some other differences besides those two keys... :eek:
Thing is, it's not that I *dislike* ANSI, it's more than I'm used to ISO, obviously.
As I hinted earlier, that twinky-key is quite useful in games, when there's a lot of keys in use and staying around WASD (well, ZQSD) is important... but that's when that key is actually recognized by the games, which is definitely not a regular behavior (probably because some developers are lazy sods).

Also, I'm not a touch-typist (and that won't happen any time soon), so I'm not really concerned by the enter-key accessibility.

But well, I was mostly *****ing for the sake of *****ing, since having Europe regarded as a 4th-world country for some "technologies" has been quite common since... ages.
And yes, I might be overexaggerating a bit :wink:

Offline DryDry

  • Posts: 49
KBC keyboard needs your advice
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 17 June 2010, 02:54:38 »
Quote from: imsto;193656
i like this layout, especially the small space key, I usually press the space key but left thumb,  I think it's not that important to make such a big space key.
most Chinese users used to use windows and paly game with left ctrl and alt
it's not a good choice to delet the left ctrl.


1、little enter
2、big backspace
3、us layout
4、don't same as hhkb
5、several colors to select
I am not tall,not handsome,but a little bad……