Author Topic: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:  (Read 2196 times)

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Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 19:37:00 »
https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/10/cherry-goes-downmarket-with-its-new-viola-mechanical-keyboard-switches/

Apparently the current offering that is shown is that the switch is tactile, mum is the word on how many keystrokes it's lifetime is, and just how much they will individually cost.

Interesting design, mx compatible, but with oversized kailh like boxes.

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Offline Sup

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 21:02:26 »
I really want to know how it creates tactility and activates, but the post doesn't say much sadly.  :(

But still lol the price range for those switches are in keyboards that costs 50-100$. I rather buy a keyboard with clones then that. Cooler master has Gateron keyboards for 70-80 ish Euro here lol. This switch is gonna fail.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 22:12:55 »
According to Tom's Hardware it is only available as near-linear, progressive. The force graph posted in their article has a distinct increase in slope after the actuation point. The article also have a render of the switch's part.

From the render, this looks like a new variant of the mechanism in Cherry MY, which also has a progressive near-linear force graph but much steeper. This should feel closer to a MX Red, while the MY feels like typing on wet newspaper.
Another difference is that it seems to be made for mounting over a PCB (apparently switch parts touch it to close the switch whereas Cherry MY presses a membrane).
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 January 2020, 22:18:18 by Findecanor »
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Offline Kamen Rider Blade

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 10 January 2020, 22:28:09 »
As long as the durability of the switch is >= 25 million, I'm good with the switch quality.

As far as feel, I really do want to try them out =D.

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 11 January 2020, 00:19:59 »
So Cherry's finally feeling the heat, after all of these years. This is good news even if they end up being terrible switches. It should drive further experimentation/innovation in the market.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 11 January 2020, 02:26:25 »
I think they should have spent their resources on developing a tactile "MX Low Profile" over this. They can't really compete with Kailh Choc with only linear low-profile switches in their catalogue.

The point Cherry makes for this switch is that it is cheaper than Cherry MX, for "sub $100 gaming keyboards" ... but then they are ignoring all the sub-$100 keyboards with MX-clone switches.
Unlike membrane switches, this switch still seems to require a keyboard-sized PCB, a mounting plate and if you want backlighting: individual LEDs soldered to the PCB — and that means that the cost savings would be only in the switches themselves and in nothing else. Membrane keyboards (like standard rubber domes, "mecha-membrane", stacked spring etc) are still significantly cheaper also in that they require no soldering on any membrane and that they tend to use cheaper lamp solutions that can light up all keys at once from underneath.

Therefore, I believe that the only manufacturer that might jump onto this would be large manufacturers that would have a exclusivity-deal with Cherry that would prevent them developing their own membrane switches or from buying MX-clones, iff there is a manufacturer out there that had been stupid enough to enter such a deal.
« Last Edit: Sat, 11 January 2020, 02:28:51 by Findecanor »
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 11 January 2020, 19:29:26 »
Yeah, the need for 'low-cost' switches struck me as a fallacy, as it only makes sense if you assume that Cherry is the only player in the market.

Switches are only part of the cost of a keyboard, and as Findecanor points out, these switches will still require most of the apparatus of a standard Cherry MX keyboard.

I agree that low-profile tactiles would have been a better direction for Cherry.

I also think that, instead of going downmarket to complete with rubber domes [and the many Cherry MX clone manufacturers who can out-compete them at the low-end], they should have gone up-market. Aren't hobbyists buying a lot of switches? Cherry created the designs for what makes the Ergo Clear, for example, so why can't they make a better version of that? The nicer manufacturers like Varmilo and Leopold would use improved Cherry tactiles, since they already offer Clears and Varmilo even offers Zeal switches now. "Cherry Ergo Clear" or some enhanced version of that would make a big splash in the hobbyist and premium-factory market.

Offline ArchDill

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 11 January 2020, 19:47:31 »
This looks like a mix between Romer G and MX

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 31 January 2020, 10:39:07 »
There's been very little coverage on this but Cherry is also increasing the lifetime of their regular lineup to 100 million keystrokes with added "Hyperglide" rails:

Quote
When we were invited to meet Cherry at CES 2020, we expected more news on the >100 million actuation rating for their popular MX switches. CORSAIR had broken the news, in a manner of speaking, when they used the new MX Brown and MX Speed (Silver) switches in their new K95 RGB Platinum XT keyboard, and Cherry confirmed to us that all currently produced MX Red, Brown, Black, and Speed (Silver) switches are now rated to this higher count (from 50 million before) with no loss in quality. This improvement comes in the form of an increased gliding surface area on the front side of the switch stem, in addition to having eight guide rails inside for added stability, which Cherry calls "Hyperglide". The company claims to also have optimized the contact force for the gold cross-point contacts, which has now resulted in a reduced debounce rate of under 1 ms. They are working on having similar improvements done to their remaining MX switches, including the MX Blue.
https://www.techpowerup.com/262809/cherry-updates-mx-switch-lifetime-introduces-new-viola-mechanical-switch


Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 31 January 2020, 11:30:50 »
This looks like a mix between Romer G and MX

Romer g sucks a##.

I tried the tactile variants and they feel so awful

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 31 January 2020, 14:26:18 »
There's been very little coverage on this but Cherry is also increasing the lifetime of their regular lineup to 100 million keystrokes with added "Hyperglide" rails:

Quote
When we were invited to meet Cherry at CES 2020, we expected more news on the >100 million actuation rating for their popular MX switches. CORSAIR had broken the news, in a manner of speaking, when they used the new MX Brown and MX Speed (Silver) switches in their new K95 RGB Platinum XT keyboard, and Cherry confirmed to us that all currently produced MX Red, Brown, Black, and Speed (Silver) switches are now rated to this higher count (from 50 million before) with no loss in quality. This improvement comes in the form of an increased gliding surface area on the front side of the switch stem, in addition to having eight guide rails inside for added stability, which Cherry calls "Hyperglide". The company claims to also have optimized the contact force for the gold cross-point contacts, which has now resulted in a reduced debounce rate of under 1 ms. They are working on having similar improvements done to their remaining MX switches, including the MX Blue.
https://www.techpowerup.com/262809/cherry-updates-mx-switch-lifetime-introduces-new-viola-mechanical-switch

Interesting, if this makes them smoother, otherwise it seems irrelevant to me when box switches are already rated at 80 million and feel much better.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 31 January 2020, 14:44:05 »
Yeah, the need for 'low-cost' switches struck me as a fallacy, as it only makes sense if you assume that Cherry is the only player in the market.

Switches are only part of the cost of a keyboard, and as Findecanor points out, these switches will still require most of the apparatus of a standard Cherry MX keyboard.

I agree that low-profile tactiles would have been a better direction for Cherry.

I also think that, instead of going downmarket to complete with rubber domes [and the many Cherry MX clone manufacturers who can out-compete them at the low-end], they should have gone up-market. Aren't hobbyists buying a lot of switches? Cherry created the designs for what makes the Ergo Clear, for example, so why can't they make a better version of that? The nicer manufacturers like Varmilo and Leopold would use improved Cherry tactiles, since they already offer Clears and Varmilo even offers Zeal switches now. "Cherry Ergo Clear" or some enhanced version of that would make a big splash in the hobbyist and premium-factory market.

This is how I feel about this too, going downstream is basically pointless for Cherry since MX clones can easily compete price wise with these Viola switches. So it's a no brainer for any manufacturer to go with an MX clone rather than a worse performing different Cherry design which would require new tools, tooling, parts etc. to accommodate. I'd be highly surprised if we see these in any other boards than Cherry manufactured boards & see it as a big waste of time & resources on Cherry's end. Honestly I don't get it, why push these to the press when the fact they are changing up the specs of regular MX switches to push them into being rated for 100 million key presses is much more interesting to consumers IMO.

Also you hit the nail on the head with saying they should've improved the MX clear & introduced lighter weightings for it to emulate ergo clears. With as hot as tactile switches have been overall & us enthusiasts buying up expensive boutique switches like they'll never be made again you'd think they would've done that long ago..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
« Last Edit: Fri, 31 January 2020, 14:47:14 by Rob27shred »

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 31 January 2020, 20:48:24 »
Yeah, and I WISH they would fix their spring weights or something to make a NICE weighted switch. Browns and Reds are way too light (and Blues somewhat), while Blacks are too heavy! :(

And fix those molds!! I want smoothness!

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 25 March 2020, 21:08:37 »

This is how I feel about this too, going downstream is basically pointless for Cherry since MX clones can easily compete price wise with these Viola switches. So it's a no brainer for any manufacturer to go with an MX clone rather than a worse performing different Cherry design which would require new tools, tooling, parts etc. to accommodate. I'd be highly surprised if we see these in any other boards than Cherry manufactured boards & see it as a big waste of time & resources on Cherry's end. Honestly I don't get it, why push these to the press when the fact they are changing up the specs of regular MX switches to push them into being rated for 100 million key presses is much more interesting to consumers IMO.

Also you hit the nail on the head with saying they should've improved the MX clear & introduced lighter weightings for it to emulate ergo clears. With as hot as tactile switches have been overall & us enthusiasts buying up expensive boutique switches like they'll never be made again you'd think they would've done that long ago..... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm with this line of thinking... Boutique High Market switches could very much make their money back, looking at the aftermarket, I really do wonder what percentage of people buy these high falutin switches and then just hold onto them for resale, when they could just produce them in a "limited" fashion and get those prices themselves?

I'd imagine being in the business for so many years would give them lots of machine parts close enough that with tweaking they could produce customized versions of current Cherries. (New Vintage Blacks?)

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Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 29 March 2020, 16:26:53 »
Anybody got their hands on the new "100 million key press" switches?

Their website was updated: https://www.cherrymx.de/en/mx-original/mx-red.html

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 29 March 2020, 23:48:56 »
I'm not seeing it on this end, did they just up the MTBF on their main switches or is this a new switch?

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Offline envyy24

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 01:30:38 »
It is a new one with different design. It might not be good, but at least cherry is not sitting on their asses anymore.

Plus what this does is probably go to a lot of gaming brands. Large population of gamers generally do not care as long as there is “cherry inside”, tons of light, and made by razer or whatever. So dont worry they will sell. Our bunch only make up a small portion of mech users

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 12:44:10 »
It is a new one with different design. It might not be good, but at least cherry is not sitting on their asses anymore.

Plus what this does is probably go to a lot of gaming brands. Large population of gamers generally do not care as long as there is “cherry inside”, tons of light, and made by razer or whatever. So dont worry they will sell. Our bunch only make up a small portion of mech users

I understood that it was a different rail design from the article I cited above.

On the website, they updated the number of actuations to 100 million for the Red, Black, Brown and Silver switches.

The drawings however seem to be the same as before.

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 13:47:00 »
It is a new one with different design. It might not be good, but at least cherry is not sitting on their asses anymore.

Plus what this does is probably go to a lot of gaming brands. Large population of gamers generally do not care as long as there is “cherry inside”, tons of light, and made by razer or whatever. So dont worry they will sell. Our bunch only make up a small portion of mech users

I understood that it was a different rail design from the article I cited above.

On the website, they updated the number of actuations to 100 million for the Red, Black, Brown and Silver switches.

The drawings however seem to be the same as before.

I feel kind of dumb now, it's on the red Blammo sticker on the top picture.  :-[

I wonder if this changes the feel, or they are just recertifying their product for a longer life cycle due to more and better tests of them.

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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 30 March 2020, 14:36:42 »
It is a new one with different design. It might not be good, but at least cherry is not sitting on their asses anymore.

Plus what this does is probably go to a lot of gaming brands. Large population of gamers generally do not care as long as there is “cherry inside”, tons of light, and made by razer or whatever. So dont worry they will sell. Our bunch only make up a small portion of mech users

I understood that it was a different rail design from the article I cited above.

On the website, they updated the number of actuations to 100 million for the Red, Black, Brown and Silver switches.

The drawings however seem to be the same as before.

I feel kind of dumb now, it's on the red Blammo sticker on the top picture.  :-[

I wonder if this changes the feel, or they are just recertifying their product for a longer life cycle due to more and better tests of them.

I would sure hope that they would fundamentally change the mechanism, but Cherry commands multiple mechanical switch markets, including industrial and retail, which don't really care at all about anything other than reliability, and nobody can really say Cherry doesn't nail that. They don't really need to reinvent the wheel, unfortunately.

Offline jacethesaltsculptor

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Re: Cherry Viola Switches Announced at CES 2020:
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 02 April 2020, 09:18:06 »
I would sure hope that they would fundamentally change the mechanism, but Cherry commands multiple mechanical switch markets, including industrial and retail, which don't really care at all about anything other than reliability, and nobody can really say Cherry doesn't nail that. They don't really need to reinvent the wheel, unfortunately.

This is true, I mean, even though we are currently in the middle of a Mechanical switch renaissance, most people I know that I showed my switch tester to had no idea there was as many. Only one wound up getting cherry switches, on a second board. All the rest were kailh, or in one case tealios.

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