63.5 springs, regular or progressive for Ergo Clears?

[HungerMechanic]

I have the opportunity to pick up some Spirit springs, which I intend to build Ergo Clears with.

63.5 is a popular weight, so I'll be using that.

I can choose between regular 63.5 stainless, 63.5 Slow (curved), and 63.5 Progressive.

Which should I choose for building Ergo Clears?

[treeleaf64]

Slow curved are nice. They don't feel THAT different from each other, from what I've heard.

[RominRonin]

I’m also interested in ergo clears right now. I’m gonna follow the topic.

[treeleaf64]

I’m also interested in ergo clears right now. I’m gonna follow the topic.

Never tried any clear/ ergo clear variant, nor have I tried Zealios or Holy Panda, so I am not very knowledgeable with MX tactile

[mlev6]

FYI: After trying different spring weights in ergo clears I felt (very subjectively) that whatever those springs in invyr housed pandas are are a great fit for ergo clears mod. I believe they start at around 55g on top and bottom at 70g or so but I'm not sure.

As for the pandas, well their springs went into the ergo clear board and the pandas I had were fitted with 60g soft springs instead (sprit yikes - but they're good springs so whatever).

[RominRonin]

This morning I tested some lubed cherry clears with Mx black springs and Gateron brown springs.

Both were very nice, tactile switches. The black was closer to clears, but lighter and smoother with the live. The browns were lighter still, and so the tactile bump felt more pronounced. I could imagine typing for long sessions without tiring , but the switch has minimal resistance after the bump, which you might like, but that resistance is what is so characteristic about clears, so I miss it when it’s not there.

I haven’t read up on what the popular spring weights are, but 63.5g sounds like it’s between the brown and black springs, which is where I think the sweet spot lies.

As for the type, we’ll, considering blacks and clears have different types of spring but that the switches only differ slightly (in resistance), is say the type might not matter much. The clear bump is quite prominent in all of the spring swaps I’ve tried.

PS. I wish zealpc would just make v1 zealios again, they were the ultimate ergo clear clones, and the new v2 is just a completely different type of switch feel entirely.

[HungerMechanic]

The spring situation for Ergo Clears is somewhat confusing, because modern Ergo Clears often use Korean springs, and Koreans sometimes measure the spring-weight differently (actuation, instead of bottom-out).

For example, I've got some right now with 60 gr 1UpKeyBoards gold-plated springs, lightly bag-lubed with 3204.

But right now, I'm looking at Spirit springs, stainless, 63.5 gr. [Gotta choose between progressive, slow, or normal.]


I chose 63.5 because its close to Browns, and 62 gr Zealios, so it should be a familiar weight. [I prefer 60-67 gr. weight myself].

I'm assuming that 63.5 is the bottom-out weight.

If I understand the history of these switches, the 60 gr was considered the bare minimum to ensure proper reset of the switches. They could bind or whatever at 55, unless lubed. You can go as low as 50-55 with good lubing, apparently.

Since people were importing Korean switches, 62 gr became popular, and was considered reliable enough, so 63.5 moreso. So I think it has to do with the imported switches used, and minimum weight reliability.

If it were just about feel, I would probably use 65 or 67-8 gr. springs.


----


If Zeal PC was still making V1 Zealios, I wouldn't even be making Ergo Clears. I would have just bought hundreds of V1 Zealios and Zilents for full-size boards, and I would have bought a JER-A06 to go along with it.

Sadly, that isn't an option. Ergo Clears are an enduring classic, though.

It's funny, it used to be if someone said "how do I get Ergo Clears" or "what are like Ergo Clears but better," people would just recc. you the Zeals. But now it's like, "just build Ergo Clears!"

I understand OUTEMU has been trying to emulate the Ergo Clears in its OUTEMU Sky 2.2 and OUTEMU Silent Forest lines. They are said to be scratchy and wobbly, and most people recommend lubing them to reduce the scratchiness.


As for Zeal, we can only hope he eventually turns that Blue Alps MX prototype into an Orange Alps MX tactile.

[Sifo]

Most custom springs go by bottom out force because you can't really list an actuation force without accounting for the rest of the switch's configuration. So all the Korean springs and custom springs typically go by bottom out force.

63.5g is a random number I came up with after convincing people that my 62g gold springs were heavier than advertised (this ended up being due to poor tolerances in the early days of manufacturing custom keyboard springs), eventually sprit started making them as an actual weight option

In my experience 60g and 62g bottom out weights can still bind with clears, especially when using wet lubes like krytox

63.5g is, in my opinion, the lowest weight you can go without any issues

outemu sky 2.2 aren't really close to the clear experience in my opinion (I have a board of them tuned the same way I would my clears)

as for the title of this post i recommend the standard linear progressions.

If you have any more questions let me know.

[RominRonin]

If you have any more questions let me know.

That was informative, thanks.

Now on to the question of acquiring the springs

Sprit springs seem to be fraudulent: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/639src/disappointed_in_some_of_this_community_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

So what are the alternatives?

And where are all the European sellers?

[Sifo]

If you have any more questions let me know.

That was informative, thanks.

Now on to the question of acquiring the springs

Sprit springs seem to be fraudulent: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/639src/disappointed_in_some_of_this_community_and/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

So what are the alternatives?

And where are all the European sellers?

yeah sprit comes down to morals and risk... you can always try to source them from third party vendors who carry his stuff instead of trying to buy directly.

i think only Novelkeys' Nolives switches and sprit have 63.5g so you're kind of out of luck on options. Not sure about EU especially

[HungerMechanic]

Thanks for the detailed information, Sifo.

I ordered 63.5 gr Spirit springs from a third-party. I'm not worried about supply here, I'm sure they're genuine.

The weight is what's important to me. I'm interested in testing the lightest an Ergo Clear can go without needing lube / binding.

I'm going to test heavier weights as well.

What is it about the OUTEMU Sky 2.2 that you find different from the Ergo Clears? I have some on the way for comparison testing.

[Sifo]

the bump is too long and the reset point is a little lower but it's much closer to a clear than zealv2 or any other modern tactile.

[mlev6]

Thanks for the detailed information, Sifo.

I ordered 63.5 gr Spirit springs from a third-party. I'm not worried about supply here, I'm sure they're genuine.

The weight is what's important to me. I'm interested in testing the lightest an Ergo Clear can go without needing lube / binding.

I'm going to test heavier weights as well.

What is it about the OUTEMU Sky 2.2 that you find different from the Ergo Clears? I have some on the way for comparison testing.

I did not have binding issues on clears with 60g soft korean springs, but the light spring meant it was impossible to not bottom out a bit too easily ie "plough" right through the tactile pump for me at that weight so I opted for slightly heavier springs in them. That is because I typed for several months on stock clears and their 80g springs and grown to like their cushiony feel after clearing the tactile pump. That said stock mx switches including clears (the board was NOS) are with very few exceptions very sandy and have scratch if unmodded.