Unicomp Customizer 101 or IBM Model M 1391401

[orange]

Hello! First, I'd like to say it's great to be here. =)

Here's my dilemma. About two weeks ago I purchased a Unicomp Customizer 101 keyboard after giving a friend my old Saitek Eclipse (the paint was wearing off and the numpad "2" didn't work well; good thing my friend didn't care). I used the Customizer for a few days and fell in love with clicky keyboards.

Last week I checked http://www.clickykeyboards.com and saw that they had a used 1987 Model M 1391401. Fearing that it wouldn't be for sale long, I purchased it as well and am writing this post with it.

My problem is, it feels like the real Model M isn't quite as clicky as the Customizer, although I can't really tell the difference (the space bar, for example, feels kind of squishy; although I'm not sure, it might just be me). Do these keyboards ever lose their click? I like the Customizer because of how slightly clickier it seems, but I like the fact that I can also use a real IBM Model M from the year 1987 (and that it can double as a weapon). I have to send back one; which should it be?

Thanks for the help.

[Phaedrus2129]

Why not keep both?

Buckling springs lose their feel over the decades, just a fact of life. Also, the rivets holding the metal plates together start to fall out, and that causes some loss of feel as well. The first is simple; Unicomp can send you a bag of 100 replacement springs+hammers for like $30+shipping, so you can replace the worn springs in your 1391401. The rivets falling out can only be corrected by the nuts and bolts mod, which is rather time consuming and difficult. And this in comparison to replacing 101 springs.

But buckling spring boards are excellent to type on, as are most mechanical keyboards in general. Welcome to the club.

[dfj]

Hello! First, I'd like to say it's great to be here. =)

My problem is, it feels like the real Model M isn't quite as clicky as the Customizer, although I can't really tell the difference (the space bar, for example, feels kind of squishy; although I'm not sure, it might just be me). Do these keyboards ever lose their click? I like the Customizer because of how slightly clickier it seems, but I like the fact that I can also use a real IBM Model M from the year 1987 (and that it can double as a weapon). I have to send back one; which should it be?

Thanks for the help.

 So - while it is possible that the springs need replacement, my normal first guess would be that it needs a cleaning. However, the folks at clicky do a decent job of cleaning, normally, so I am kinda sceptical of this.
 If you don't have a 5.5mm or 7/32 thin socket then it is bloody hard to open the case of the M and check for lost rivets, etc...
  A normal M from '87 is typically a fair bit more solid feeling than a customizer. To test whether the springs have taken a set on the M you can press various  keys about the keyboard and in particular the function keys which would have taken less wear from use. Significant differences suggest either a set on the springs or lost rivets - either of which is a decent amount of work to fix (with the rivets being more work).

  Meh, I think I'll agree with the ripster here - type on them, see which one you like most. If you like the M enough to restore it then you'll be able to find out everything you need to know from this site. If it's too busted or flaky, then wait, and get another M later. They can definitely be had. I even have a friend who wants to move a couple of them (not so clear he's looking for 'friend' prices, though). Put a 'seeking a nice pre-lexmark M' in yer sig here, and someone will eventually poke you. You'll need to find the place interesting enough to post occasionally, mind.

[orange]

Significant differences suggest either a set on the springs or lost rivets - either of which is a decent amount of work to fix (with the rivets being more work).

The thing is, what qualifies as a "significant difference"? Both keyboards still have the nice tactile feedback (save for the spacebar on the M). I'm not sure if there's something wrong with the Model M or if the feel is just different; I can't discern the difference. The best way I can describe it is that the Customizer has a more solid sounding (and solid feeling) click, whereas the Model M sounds more tinny, if that makes sense.

[spolia optima]

Like probably most of us, my personal favorite BS boards share the following characteristics:

a) high actuation point (no need to bottom out)
b) minimum key rattle
c) minimum ping
d) uniform feel

A rivet fix will generally help with a and d. if that fails, break out sum new springs and play operation!

fixing b and c are, to my knowledge, impossible. like if your girlfriend has an irritating voice, you can't really fix her, ya know? you just call up unicomp and order a new one.

[orange]

So what are these "rivets" of which you speak? Is there any way to tell if any are missing without opening the case?

[spolia optima]

?   A nut bolt/mod definitely will reduce ping.

See sound samples in the Nut/Bold Mod post.

good point, guess I simply never noticed

[orange]

Thanks for the help. I'm still undecided but I'm leaning more towards the original Model M. A friend of mine brought up a good point: I can always get a Unicomp keyboard, but Model Ms aren't as easy to find. It's not like they're rare but they aren't being made anymore (not like the Unicomp ones).

[audioave10]

I was also tempted by those 87 Model M's (he had two) at clicky a couple of weeks ago. I've instead bought a 96 and a 95. Those seem new to me although I may have just been lucky. $45 and $50 are good prices for his boards...they are super clean.

[orange]

Ugh. I'm so indecisive. I like typing on both of them, so that's not an issue, and I'm pretty sure the Customizer is louder, which is nice (for me). What would you guys do, personally?

[audioave10]

IIRC...the 87's were at $79.99. The pictures showed very clean but they did look a little well-used to me.
OP...you will have to decide which one YOU like best.

[Morning Song]

Personally, i'd keep the customizer. It lacks the collector value, but i personally think it makes up for it in terms of being a supported, in-production piece of hardware. (And yours seems to be in a fair bit better shape than your '87 M)

Then you can let the Model M go to a collector who can give it a proper Spring Cleaning and rivet mod.

[orange]

Since I can't seem to make up my mind (and since I know if I returned either one I'd experience dissonance), I'm going to keep both. Once I get my hands on a 5.5-mm socket I can open  the old one up and see what's going on. I never thought I'd ever own more keyboards than I'd use to type; I think I'm crazy.

Thanks for putting up with me. :wave:

[dfj]

Since I can't seem to make up my mind (and since I know if I returned either one I'd experience dissonance), I'm going to keep both. Once I get my hands on a 5.5-mm socket I can open  the old one up and see what's going on. I never thought I'd ever own more keyboards than I'd use to type; I think I'm crazy.

Thanks for putting up with me. :wave:

If it is the spacebar that is giving you the most trouble I'd pop it and reseat. mebbe some gunk that got missed where the retaining bar slides or something.

  The M spacebar slides in two sockets, but only one has a membrane pad under it. The retaining bar slides into two clips - stuff can get stuck in there. I have seen the sockets lose their feel on occasion - particularly on the keypad +, which has no retaining bar. That is to say, the problem might not be the spring but rather some wear on the shaft and keystem itself. I hope this is not the problem with your space, since I don't currently have a solution, beyond replacing the key. (I swapped the + and enter on the keypad, since I never use the enter, but use +,-,*,/ often on the keypad.
A little oil did not help me, and one must be cautious with oil as it is murder to remove without disassembling the kb fully and doing a bolt-mod.

Anyway - I'd also have kept both - though I prefer my M's to my Unicomp, and I suspect I will prefer my F's to my M's once I convert them.

G'luck on finding the socket - 7/32 or 5.5mm both work perfectly to unscrew the back from an M. (7/32 is not an 'official' standard size for heads of screws/bolts/nuts that I could find in Machinery's Handbook, so presumably the 5.5mm is what IBM actually used.)

[spremino]

Unicomps are often crisper and less pingy than old IBMs.

That's been my experience too.

[Buckling_Summer]

Buy a NIB Model M (fresh like morning "spring" air) to get the right feeling. Everything else said is not needed.

[ch_123]

So basically buy a Unicomp?

[Rusty Rat]

G'luck on finding the socket - 7/32 or 5.5mm both work perfectly to unscrew the back from an M. (7/32 is not an 'official' standard size for heads of screws/bolts/nuts that I could find in Machinery's Handbook, so presumably the 5.5mm is what IBM actually used.)

When I was looking around for a 7/32 driver I was told it was a size used for automated machine screw application on assembly lines and was also used in the Aircraft Industry some time ago. My 7/32 chrome vanadium nut driver (sounds painful) is made in Germany by Stahl. They have this size and 5.5mm available. Perhaps because the Germans are fussy about their engineering tolerances they don’t make “it may fit” tools.

America may be moving to metric slowly, Aussies have had it lumped upon us for years. I still find it difficult visualizing a person when the Police are looking for someone “185cms tall and weighing 85kgs”

[kishy]

7/32 is a looser fit than 5.5 (I have both sizes of the same tool), IIRC. Been a while since I opened a Model M, longer since I used whichever tool didn't fit as well.

[Rusty Rat]

.002" inch difference.  

NonMouse would find that TOTALLY unacceptable.

So would I, these screws are metal not plastic moulded. Who knows, perhaps IBM or Lexmark changed the sizes slightly in later production runs or to accommodate metricised Europe. Time for someone to get a micrometer on older and newer screws?

[EverythingIBM]

Since I can't seem to make up my mind (and since I know if I returned either one I'd experience dissonance), I'm going to keep both. Once I get my hands on a 5.5-mm socket I can open  the old one up and see what's going on. I never thought I'd ever own more keyboards than I'd use to type; I think I'm crazy.

Thanks for putting up with me. :wave:

It depends how well-used that model M was.
My '86 was basically brand new (no one used it and my school was just throwing it out), and yeah, the spacebar is kind of funny (it hisses), the other keys are very pongy and metallic, so, I'd guess all older IBM ones are kind of like that.

I'd keep the older model M because they age well, like cheese. I'm using mine full time because I won't live forever to use it lol. No point of collecting things and never being able to use them.

[orange]

Okay, I've actually decided to just keep the original Model M. I thought about it and realized that I'd never use two keyboards and I don't want to just let the Model M sit on a shelf collecting dust (if I'd used the Customizer and just kept the Model M as a collector's item). So I'm going to mail back the Unicomp board tomorrow.

[mcdonc]

This is totally a non sequitur.  But I'll add it here anyway.

I've seen intimations that folks think that the Lexmark/Greenock Model Ms with the straight cords coming out the right hand side back are maybe of lesser build quality.  And that may be true.  I'm not sure if the Unicomps are also built like this.  But whoever thought of just wrapping that cord around the strut for the keyboard instead of that ridiculous strain relief setup on the earlier fixed-cord Lexmark model Ms was a genius.  If you're gonna have a fixed cord, just make it simple, geez.

[EverythingIBM]

Okay, I've actually decided to just keep the original Model M. I thought about it and realized that I'd never use two keyboards and I don't want to just let the Model M sit on a shelf collecting dust (if I'd used the Customizer and just kept the Model M as a collector's item). So I'm going to mail back the Unicomp board tomorrow.

Well if you ever decide to sell it -- it'll be worth more than a unicomp. So, it's a win/win I think.

[Voixdelion]

A... I suspect I will prefer my F's to my M's once I convert them.

Wanna do mine while you're at it?

G'luck on finding the socket - 7/32 or 5.5mm both work perfectly to unscrew the back from an M. (7/32 is not an 'official' standard size for heads of screws/bolts/nuts that I could find in Machinery's Handbook, so presumably the 5.5mm is what IBM actually used.)

I looked everywhere fior a b&m retail place that sold these and just when I was about to give up and order one online my BF dug up a mini tire-iron looking thing for me out of his RF car stuff.  Works perfect.

[washuai]

You don't have a use for two keyboards?  
One machine is reason enough for two keyboards.  There is no harm having a back up keyboard, even when you own a mechanical you expect to use for 20 years.  In the event of strange things, you'll be a lot happier having your back up you know and appreciate.

Work, Home, Home back up, home docking station, 2nd pc, gaming, portable - look, I have reason enough to own 7 - 14 keyboards.  Reality is, I own 3 boards and work owns the 4th and work will own the 5th.

[microsoft windows]

Buy a NIB Model M (fresh like morning "spring" air) to get the right feeling. Everything else said is not needed.

You've been in the city too long if you think an old keyboard that sat around for 15 years is like fresh morning air.

[aegrotatio]

Hold up.  I, for one, have never seen nor heard of anything remotely resembling a Model M clone.  Sure, the Monterey switches try to *sound* like them, but they don't *clone* them.

What, if any, *clone* Model M keyboards exist today?  Any?  I would like to know.

[quadibloc]

What, if any, *clone* Model M keyboards exist today?  Any?  I would like to know.

I don't believe that anyone is making a clone of the Model M.

But Unicomp still makes the Model M. Not a clone, not a copy, not an imitation - but the real thing, having bought the rights and the dies from Lexmark.

And, someday, they'll become a bigger and more profitable company, when the virtues of keyboards with good tactile characteristics are brought to the attention of the wider public... when we teach the world to type in perfect harmony.

[ch_123]

There were those crazy Chinese buckling spring keyboards, and the Alps buckling spring keyboards too. Neither of which are really any good.

[Roguemaster8]

And, someday, they'll become a bigger and more profitable company, when the virtues of keyboards with good tactile characteristics are brought to the attention of the wider public... when we teach the world to type in perfect harmony.

In the name of the Spring, the Plastic, and the Clickity Clack. Amen.

I'm going through a similar debate with myself as well.
I found a BNIB Model M 82G2383 for $60 shipped, but at the same time I wonder if it would be better to just spend the $79 on a Unicomp Ultra Classic with the oh so convenient USB plug instead.

[KillerBee]

I see way too many people around here sell their keyboard and then buy it back at a loss two years later.

Soo TRUE... I want my June 1985 Back!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH (j/k Sam j/k)