Toy Story 3, any comments?

[EverythingIBM]

Since this is probably bound to come up sooner or later, I'll start it up.

Whad'yall think of Toy Story 3?

Being vintage, I went to see the 2D version over the 3D one.

They incorporated a lot of humour in it, it seemed to flow well with the previous movies, the plot kept getting larger, and so forth. I was satisfied with it, better than all the other junk that keeps coming up; I go Roger Ebert on a lot of movies.
I noticed a lot of subtle hints that foreshadowed other events, like the phone toy kicking woody, the three aliens being hit by a truck (only to use the claw and save the other toys from the incinerator etc). Well I shouldn't spoil it for others.

My only complaint is that TWO LARGE POPS and TWO BAGS OF M&Ms (with peanuts) were $20 frickin dollars. The movie tickets were $25 for two people... Damn! I'm not going to see any movies any time soon after that lol. Well... afterwards I had some pasta at boston pizza, 7-cheese ravioli with pomoromo sauce, it was quite good. And boston pizza uses IBM, can't beat that. Has my "seal of approval".

[chimera15]

Since this is probably bound to come up sooner or later, I'll start it up.

Whad'yall think of Toy Story 3?

Being vintage, I went to see the 2D version over the 3D one.

They incorporated a lot of humour in it, it seemed to flow well with the previous movies, the plot kept getting larger, and so forth. I was satisfied with it, better than all the other junk that keeps coming up; I go Roger Ebert on a lot of movies.
I noticed a lot of subtle hints that foreshadowed other events, like the phone toy kicking woody, the three aliens being hit by a truck (only to use the claw and save the other toys from the incinerator etc). Well I shouldn't spoil it for others.

My only complaint is that TWO LARGE POPS and TWO BAGS OF M&Ms (with peanuts) were $20 frickin dollars. The movie tickets were $25 for two people... Damn! I'm not going to see any movies any time soon after that lol. Well... afterwards I had some pasta at boston pizza, 7-cheese ravioli with pomoromo sauce, it was quite good. And boston pizza uses IBM, can't beat that. Has my "seal of approval".

I liked the ending. You should just torrent it if you're going to watch it in only 2d, and don't want to pay horrible costs for a theater. lol.

[Oqsy]

I saw it with my three kids last night.  I thought it was a perfect ending to the movies.  I don't know if it's my advancing years, the fact that I have kids of my own, or some chemical imbalance because of the mind=altering drugs the government is slipping into the water supplies, but I actually teared up (and I mean on the verge of a full on sob, choked up etc) for the last 10 minutes of the movie.  There was a nice story arc, a good new villain with a Star Wars homage scene, and a nice "growing up and moving on" theme.  The only complaint for me was Buzz Lightyear's "Spanish Mode".  I won't go into details, but I thought they could have handled the necessary comic relief in those scenes and developed the romantic undertones of the Buzz/Jessie relationship without the gimmicky Shrek "Puss in Boots" style character.

[EverythingIBM]

I liked the ending. You should just torrent it if you're going to watch it in only 2d, and don't want to pay horrible costs for a theater. lol.

I don't like doing illegal things... torrents ruin the economy, violate freedom, and the like. Besides, if *I* made a movie or software, I wouldn't want people torrenting it. It also provokes companies to initiate anti-pirating techniques, some of which people are starting to feel the effects of.

Besides, if I play games, I have to have the physical copy in hand.

I saw it with my three kids last night.  I thought it was a perfect ending to the movies.  I don't know if it's my advancing years, the fact that I have kids of my own, or some chemical imbalance because of the mind=altering drugs the government is slipping into the water supplies, but I actually teared up (and I mean on the verge of a full on sob, choked up etc) for the last 10 minutes of the movie.  There was a nice story arc, a good new villain with a Star Wars homage scene, and a nice "growing up and moving on" theme.  The only complaint for me was Buzz Lightyear's "Spanish Mode".  I won't go into details, but I thought they could have handled the necessary comic relief in those scenes and developed the romantic undertones of the Buzz/Jessie relationship without the gimmicky Shrek "Puss in Boots" style character.

They used a lot of psychological techniques I believe; to plug at human emotion.

[chimera15]

I don't like doing illegal things... torrents ruin the economy, violate freedom, and the like. Besides, if *I* made a movie or software, I wouldn't want people torrenting it. It also provokes companies to initiate anti-pirating techniques, some of which people are starting to feel the effects of.

Besides, if I play games, I have to have the physical copy in hand.



They used a lot of psychological techniques I believe; to plug at human emotion.

It's not illegal to share in private groups, courts have upheld that since the first computers.  If you join a private torrenting group, there's nothing illegal about it.  You also won't get trojans or fake movie downloads.  You also get to retain the movie, where if you go to a theater you're paying essentially for a service that's the same as burning money.  You might as well wait for a dvd, where after watching it you still have something of value in hand.

Artists need to be able to make a living, but that doesn't mean that they have to stick some huge $20-40 fee to the end consumer. The truth of the matter is that the theaters are making money hand over fist, while the artists that make the film are getting paid practically nothing relative to the overall gross of a theater intake.  Theaters still show ads and are ad supported but still stick it to customers by hideously overcharging at the counter.  Movie theaters can suck it. I used to go to theaters every week for years.  I decided I'd rather spend my money on a nice home theater.

[ch_123]

The publishing industry, whether it be for music, film, or games, has a long history of ****ing over creative people/groups/companies and controlling and promoting a market where having the same repetitive **** dished out over and over again is seen as a good thing. On a $50 game in retail, the developer might make $5... In this day and age where I can make a game on my laptop and distribute it over a peer-to-peer network, what exactly is it that these publishing and retail companies do that justifies taking 90% of my potential income? Same with music, and film to a certain extent.

Now, I'm far to nihilistic to say that we all should pirate stuff to stick it to the man, rather, when I download something 'illegally', I feel absolutely no guilt and see no reason why I should. As far as I am concerned, I'm stealing from the thief.

[EverythingIBM]

It's not illegal to share in private groups, courts have upheld that since the first computers.  If you join a private torrenting group, there's nothing illegal about it.  You also won't get trojans or fake movie downloads.  You also get to retain the movie, where if you go to a theater you're paying essentially for a service that's the same as burning money.  You might as well wait for a dvd, where after watching it you still have something of value in hand.

Artists need to be able to make a living, but that doesn't mean that they have to stick some huge $20-40 fee to the end consumer. The truth of the matter is that the theaters are making money hand over fist, while the artists that make the film are getting paid practically nothing relative to the overall gross of a theater intake.  Theaters still show ads and are ad supported but still stick it to customers by hideously overcharging at the counter.  Movie theaters can suck it. I used to go to theaters every week for years.  I decided I'd rather spend my money on a nice home theater.

Torrents are ONLY legal if they are sending non-copyrighted material, or, demos of software. Viruses can be embedded in WMV files last time I checked.
Artists choose to work for a company or a publisher, it doesn't matter the price; often or not theatres themselves modify the price. If arists don't like it, they are free to work for someone else, get a different job, or start a company of their own.

The publishing industry, whether it be for music, film, or games, has a long history of ****ing over creative people/groups/companies and controlling and promoting a market where having the same repetitive **** dished out over and over again is seen as a good thing. On a $50 game in retail, the developer might make $5... In this day and age where I can make a game on my laptop and distribute it over a peer-to-peer network, what exactly is it that these publishing and retail companies do that justifies taking 90% of my potential income? Same with music, and film to a certain extent.

Now, I'm far to nihilistic to say that we all should pirate stuff to stick it to the man, rather, when I download something 'illegally', I feel absolutely no guilt and see no reason why I should. As far as I am concerned, I'm stealing from the thief.

Tear-jerkers do not change the issue. If you download software or movies from a company, it is stealing.
Furthermore, I know a hefty amount of independent developers who are indeed having their software being pirated. Sure it doesn't affect the big companies as much, but it DOES affect the little guys trying to make a living. Ever think of that?

The issue isn't the publishers, it's people becomming insane with pirating things, which adversely affects everything. You keep on pointing to big corporations and say stealing their products isn't harming, well let us deduct this:
#1 if everyone were to pirate movies and software, the big corporations would make no revenue whatsoever.
#2 there are a LOT of independent game developers and publishers who have their products pirated -- they are not big corporations so it really hurts their profits.
#3 it doesn't matter if people feel guilty or not, that's just an emotion! The issue is the economy, and the right to earn money when someone is utilizing your intellectual property.
#4 all of this pirating is pushing companies to develop anti-piracy techniques which are highly annoying... so everyone has to suffer, even those who don't pirate.

[ch_123]

#1 if everyone were to pirate movies and software, the big corporations would make no revenue whatsoever.

How terrible that would be.

#3 it doesn't matter if people feel guilty or not, that's just an emotion! The issue is the economy, and the right to earn money when someone is utilizing your intellectual property.

In a large amount of cases, the money is sucked up by people who don't deserve it.

#4 all of this pirating is pushing companies to develop anti-piracy techniques which are highly annoying... so everyone has to suffer, even those who don't pirate.

Even now there are unobtrusive ways of anti-piracy. The market punishes companies who are *******s to their customers. The pirates circumvent it anyway. They're fighting a losing battle.

I'm not going to disagree that the pirating of independent producers is a problem. In spite of what I said earlier, I do make a point of buying such games, hell, they're the only games I really play these days. I guess what I am saying is more applicable to products from big labels. Just throwing my thoughts out there.

[chimera15]

Torrents are ONLY legal if they are sending non-copyrighted material, or, demos of software. Viruses can be embedded in WMV files last time I checked.
Artists choose to work for a company or a publisher, it doesn't matter the price; often or not theatres themselves modify the price. If arists don't like it, they are free to work for someone else, get a different job, or start a company of their own.



Tear-jerkers do not change the issue. If you download software or movies from a company, it is stealing.
Furthermore, I know a hefty amount of independent developers who are indeed having their software being pirated. Sure it doesn't affect the big companies as much, but it DOES affect the little guys trying to make a living. Ever think of that?

The issue isn't the publishers, it's people becomming insane with pirating things, which adversely affects everything. You keep on pointing to big corporations and say stealing their products isn't harming, well let us deduct this:
#1 if everyone were to pirate movies and software, the big corporations would make no revenue whatsoever.
#2 there are a LOT of independent game developers and publishers who have their products pirated -- they are not big corporations so it really hurts their profits.
#3 it doesn't matter if people feel guilty or not, that's just an emotion! The issue is the economy, and the right to earn money when someone is utilizing your intellectual property.
#4 all of this pirating is pushing companies to develop anti-piracy techniques which are highly annoying... so everyone has to suffer, even those who don't pirate.

It's the age we live in. I'm an artist. I've had my work stolen, and used by companies to sell their junk, without even crediting me let alone paying me.   That's like 1000 times worse than me as an individual happening upon someone sharing a movie, which is essentially the same as me walking along the road and picking up a dollar left on the ground.  You may say that I shouldn't pick the dollar up, that it's stealing, but the reality is, if I let it sit there, someone else is just going pick it up, and it's lost money one way or the other.  

 Art isn't profitable anymore like it used to be. If it's not being stolen by everyone, it's being stolen overseas where it's impossible to sue them.

It's a total loosing battle, and there's no solution to it, so it's best just to go along with it and get what you can before society completely collapses.

Private torrent trackers have files that are verified by users not to have virus's in them. If someone does get a virus, they will report that it does and the file will be yanked.

[Oqsy]

Aye, there's the rub.  Deciding to steal something because you disagree with who gets what cut within the company will NEVER teach the company how to structure itself.  You're not operating for the good of the downtrodden, you're stealing stuff because you're too cheap to pay for it, and want to find some lofty cause to excuse it.  If you don't like a company, or don't want to support them, then don't buy their product.  But turning around and stealing the product crosses the line.  

I'm with IBM on this one.  

The "social justice" spin on stealing movies, music, art, literature, software, etc. is sickening.  Stealing Transformers via online torrents is not a noble act.  Statements against the corporations would carry more weight if they came from a position of integrity.  When someone starts taking something that isn't theirs without paying, their position on the morality of corporations become laughable.

[wellington1869]

saw it on friday, really liked it.  Was pleasantly surprised, thought it was high quality all around (the animation and the story too).

Was sorrounded by toddlers when we went in, for a moment I thought maybe we should have gone to A Team instead, but was pleasantly surprised by the movie.

3-d was pretty good (tho after a while I tend to become innured to the 3d effects and dont notice them anymore) but i would have liked it just as much in 2d i'm sure.

The story especially was well done, with I think the right amount of pathos and humor mixed in, with a lot of things happening and developing at once. Was a nice layered story, I thought, with plenty there for the grownups to bite into.

[kishy]

I like to see movies in theatres, but not because I feel some sense of pride in paying big corporations.

I happen to like going out with friends and doing stuff. So what if the pop is 5 bucks, it's a social outing.

[chimera15]

Aye, there's the rub.  Deciding to steal something because you disagree with who gets what cut within the company will NEVER teach the company how to structure itself.  You're not operating for the good of the downtrodden, you're stealing stuff because you're too cheap to pay for it, and want to find some lofty cause to excuse it.  If you don't like a company, or don't want to support them, then don't buy their product.  But turning around and stealing the product crosses the line.  

I'm with IBM on this one.  

The "social justice" spin on stealing movies, music, art, literature, software, etc. is sickening.  Stealing Transformers via online torrents is not a noble act.  Statements against the corporations would carry more weight if they came from a position of integrity.  When someone starts taking something that isn't theirs without paying, they're position on the morality of corporations become laughable.

That's not the point. The point is that I wouldn't go to the theater and see that movie because of those points in the first place.  You can't prove I would see the movie in the theater and pay for it, if I hadn't gotten it for free.  The fact is I wouldn't see it in the theater and pay for it, even if it wasn't available.  So it's not theft if I would never have paid for it in the first place.  I'm willing to watch it for free at home, or perhaps even a reasonable price (under $5 for snacks and everything) but not to pay $40 for 10 times marked up candy, popcorn, and a packed theater of screaming kids and idiots.

[wellington1869]

I happen to like going out with friends and doing stuff. So what if the pop is 5 bucks, it's a social outing.

unfortunately pop and popcorn in manhattan comes out to more like 10 bucks. Each. Its just highway robbery.
That said of course I buy it every time. Popcorn and nachos (with the melted yellow cheese wax that doesnt require refridgeration - hmmmm, its good).

I draw the line at the hotdogs though.

[ch_123]

€4 coke and €4 ice cream on top of an €8 ticket (and that's with a student discount)... Then again, I don't go to the cinema often so it's hardly going to bankrupt me.

Someday they'll probably start charging corkage on food you bring in yourself

When someone starts taking something that isn't theirs without paying, they're position on the morality of corporations become laughable.

History venerates people who broke the law in the name of some sort of greater good or another. Strip away the context and it looks rather funny... Nelson Mandela, for example, became a hero for getting thrown into jail for blowing people up. The founders of the United States were the Enlightenment Age's equivalent of Al Qaeda... and the list goes on.

Again, I'm not trying to be some sort of pinko radical, I'm just pointing out that morality and right and wrong aren't always straightforward as Fox News would have you believe.

Oh, and it's "their" not "they're"... that one always annoyed me.

[chimera15]

The single biggest problem I have with the production/movie companies is that they hold the movie hostage in theaters essentially and make you go there and see it, instead of simultaneously releasing a dvd.  I might actually buy a dvd for around $10 or less, which is a physical product and has some stand alone worth.  But nooo, they use their mind game tactic that everyone just accepts and buys into.  They've even started playing around with what country it gets released to first and junk, which is unforgivable in this day and age.

[Oqsy]

The "dollar on the ground" or the "I wouldn't have paid for it anyway" arguments are shoddy.  The "dollar on the ground" just doesn't hold up because you're talking about a single dollar on the ground, that only one person could possibly pick up.  Torrents give access to millions of dollars worth of product, to be taken by uncounted numbers of people repeatedly, without any compensation for the people who actually created the product.  

The arguments about the price of food and drinks at the theater is just silly.  Don't like the prices?  Don't buy it.  I've never died of starvation or dehydration from lack of popcorn, candy bars, or soda during the length of any feature film.  You're NOT beholden to purchase the snacks, or pay the ticket price.  However, if you take the product or service, you ARE obligated to pay for it.

[chimera15]

The "dollar on the ground" or the "I wouldn't have paid for it anyway" arguments are shoddy.  The "dollar on the ground" just doesn't hold up because you're talking about a single dollar on the ground, that only one person could possibly pick up.  Torrents give access to millions of dollars worth of product, to be taken by uncounted numbers of people repeatedly, without any compensation for the people who actually created the product.  

The arguments about the price of food and drinks at the theater is just silly.  Don't like the prices?  Don't buy it.  I've never died of starvation or dehydration from lack of popcorn, candy bars, or soda during the length of any feature film.  You're NOT beholden to purchase the snacks, or pay the ticket price.  However, if you take the product or service, you ARE obligated to pay for it.

I don't think the dollar on the ground argument is shoddy at all, it's exactly what it is.  Say a thief robs a bank, then scatters millions of dollars throughout the city.  You're walking down the street, and happen to see a dollar on the ground.  That's exactly what it is.  Your argument is that it's me being a thief for picking up that dollar, which is a ridiculous and shoddy.

Even if it was a solid thing like money, which it's not, since it's a dollar that can be copied over and over again and has no worth except the intent of the person that would have bought that copy for full price in the first place if it wasn't free.

That's not shoddy, that's what it is.

[Oqsy]

Deciding which countries see movies at what time is absolutely the right of the company distributing the movie.  That's their job.  If they know that another large movie has just released, it makes SENSE for them to hold the release to increase their likelihood of selling tickets.  Video game makers do that same thing.  If you know the release date of Halo 4, and you are going to release a first person shooter, it would be suicide to release it the same day.  I'm sorry, but the people running these companies are professionals at what they do, and there is good reason behind *most* of it.  The most important thing that you all keep missing is... let your money do the talking!  If you don't like a company that releases movies in Holland before the U.S., then start a webpage, and organize a boycott of all their movies.  If there aren't enough of you to make an economic impact on the company, then too bad, I guess Holland gets to see the new Smurfs movie before you.  It's not an INJUSTICE to anyone.  Seriously, this is starting to get funny.  I didn't realize how serious the problem of cheap cry-baby whiners had gotten.  Do what you can to control the things that you can with integrity and a steadfast dedication to right and wrong.  Complaining about the injustice of the things you can't control (like release dates of films in different countries) comes across as pathetic and childish.  We all deal with injustices, challenges, or things we don't like on a daily basis.  The question is how you deal with them.

[chimera15]

Deciding which countries see movies at what time is absolutely the right of the company distributing the movie.  That's their job.  If they know that another large movie has just released, it makes SENSE for them to hold the release to increase their likelihood of selling tickets.  Video game makers do that same thing.  If you know the release date of Halo 4, and you are going to release a first person shooter, it would be suicide to release it the same day.  I'm sorry, but the people running these companies are professionals at what they do, and there is good reason behind *most* of it.  The most important thing that you all keep missing is... let your money do the talking!  If you don't like a company that releases movies in Holland before the U.S., then start a webpage, and organize a boycott of all their movies.  If there aren't enough of you to make an economic impact on the company, then too bad, I guess Holland gets to see the new Smurfs movie before you.  It's not an INJUSTICE to anyone.  Seriously, this is starting to get funny.  I didn't realize how serious the problem of cheap cry-baby whiners had gotten.  Do what you can to control the things that you can with integrity and a steadfast dedication to right and wrong.  Complaining about the injustice of the things you can't control (like release dates of films in different countries) comes across as pathetic and childish.  We all deal with injustices, challenges, or things we don't like on a daily basis.  The question is how you deal with them.

That made absolutely no sense at all. Um, what do you think I'm saying here? I do let my money do the talking...that's kind of the point.

As for organizing a boycott, I guess you're out? lol

The timed release thing is a product and response of the movie industry to TV, and the fact if they hadn't done that, TV would have killed theaters, because no one would have gone to see movies in theaters if they didn't hold the movie hostage.  Today, with the net, and pocket cameras, you can't hold a movie hostage anymore, so there's no point in it, and it's just ridiculous.

[EverythingIBM]

It's the age we live in. I'm an artist. I've had my work stolen, and used by companies to sell their junk, without even crediting me let alone paying me.   That's like 1000 times worse than me as an individual happening upon someone sharing a movie, which is essentially the same as me walking along the road and picking up a dollar left on the ground.  You may say that I shouldn't pick the dollar up, that it's stealing, but the reality is, if I let it sit there, someone else is just going pick it up, and it's lost money one way or the other.  

 Art isn't profitable anymore like it used to be. If it's not being stolen by everyone, it's being stolen overseas where it's impossible to sue them.

It's a total loosing battle, and there's no solution to it, so it's best just to go along with it and get what you can before society completely collapses.

Private torrent trackers have files that are verified by users not to have virus's in them. If someone does get a virus, they will report that it does and the file will be yanked.

But you see, if a company steals property from an individual, that's the same as the individual stealing property from the company. So if someone becomes a victim, they want to victimize back? That doesn't exactly solve any problems...
It's best if everyone DIDN'T steal and respected one another. Otherwise you'll have individuals who steal intellectual property, and if THOSE people create companies, they may steal property yet even more.

saw it on friday, really liked it.  Was pleasantly surprised, thought it was high quality all around (the animation and the story too).

Was sorrounded by toddlers when we went in, for a moment I thought maybe we should have gone to A Team instead, but was pleasantly surprised by the movie.

3-d was pretty good (tho after a while I tend to become innured to the 3d effects and dont notice them anymore) but i would have liked it just as much in 2d i'm sure.

The story especially was well done, with I think the right amount of pathos and humor mixed in, with a lot of things happening and developing at once. Was a nice layered story, I thought, with plenty there for the grownups to bite into.

Yeah, I think it was mainly for an older audience -- probably intended for those who grew up with toy story 1 and are now older. The layering of story elements was quite well executed; you even had references to pizza planet, and even the infamous pizza planet truck make another cameo.

I like to see movies in theatres, but not because I feel some sense of pride in paying big corporations.

I happen to like going out with friends and doing stuff. So what if the pop is 5 bucks, it's a social outing.

Yes, I am in agreeance with that -- the only reason I went was mainly for a social event with friends and all that. Otherwise I'd be stuck in my IBM basement lol.

[EverythingIBM]

I've never died of starvation or dehydration from lack of popcorn, candy bars, or soda during the length of any feature film.

That's hilarious haha. Yeah... I'm thinking of just bringing my own food next time I go see a movie. If they'll allow it... 'cause, I'd like to munch on something or have a drink while I watch a movie.

[EverythingIBM]

It's a time honored tradition in our family to walk into movie theaters with a seemingly poofy down vest stuffed with buttered popcorn and beer bottles in the midst of summer.

One embarassing time my beer bottle tipped over and went rolling approximate 32 rows to the front.

Chink.
Roll.
Kachink.
Roll..
Thunk.
.....

This got quite a laugh from the audience.

Screw the movie theaters.  Beat up the old ladies for their senior citizen tickets and bring your own food.

Yeah, you can order McDonalds and sneak it into the theatre.


Speaking of spilled beverages, the theatre was absolutely filthy, we had to go through 6 seats until we found one that didn't have gunk all over them. And the floor was all sticky...

[wellington1869]

not to go too far off topic, but couldnt resist biting on this one...  

Nelson Mandela, for example, became a hero for getting thrown into jail for blowing people up.

lol, i appreciate what you're trying to argue here, tho I believe mandela is venerated today for having relinquished violence, which indeed he did.

The founders of the United States were the Enlightenment Age's equivalent of Al Qaeda...

again, while I appreciate your larger point, there are crucial differences between US founders and al queda, including the former fighting for religious tolerance (rather than intolerance) and democracy (rather than dictatorship) -- kind of makes a difference. No, they werent perfect, but that doesnt mean they're "the same" as al queda either. Quite huge differences actually.  Nor did they go bomb civilians in London as a matter of stated (and celebrated) policy while using their fight as a pretext.

All violence isnt the same; the justifications and arguments matter, because they dictate the extent and form and shape of that violence and the shape of the regime to come in the wake of it. Its alarming to me to see so many of my friends on the left imply that these differences dont exist. How many of you would rather live with the institutions the founders began, than under the institutions al queda wants (and in afghanistan, helped establish). These differences matter a great deal.

pointing out that morality and right and wrong aren't always straightforward as Fox News would have you believe.

I'd agree with that statement... and I offer my arguments above to back up precisely such a statement. These things are not so straightforward at all.

[EverythingIBM]

I think I'm gonna stick to Roger Ebert and ignore EverthingIBM movie reviews.

Ugly pic is ugly.

Hey! Don't be hating on Texans.

EverythingIBM reviews... hmmm... well.... Ben Stein's "expelled" did show a thinkpad for a brief moment. That's really the only movie that I've seen IBM in. I found the movie to be kind of bland though. I get too impatient with slow movies... or pretty much anything that's slow (like school computers).

[gr1m]

Who buys food/drinks in theaters? Pig out before or after, but not during. I'd rather save my $10 for a Double Angry Whopper than for a bucket of disgustingly-salty ****corn.

[kishy]

Who buys food/drinks in theaters? Pig out before or after, but not during. I'd rather save my $10 for a Double Angry Whopper than for a bucket of disgustingly-salty ****corn.

I recently tried the angry chicken sandwich. Really liked it.

Wish Wendy's would bring back the Spicy Baconator. Also I'd like to see an angry Stacker tbh.

[Oqsy]

Fixed it, it bugs me too.  I usually catch those.  

But you *know* that taking a movie without paying for it IS as simple as it sounds.  It's wrong.  If you don't know that, you're lost, and not worth my time anyway.  Fox News doesn't have me believe anything...  My parents, grandparents, teachers, community leaders, coaches, etc. have me believing things.  I'm not going to play a game of relative morality.  "Well, it's not as bad as what HE'S doing" is an argument used by children who have no self-control or respect for others.  Any comparing of the founders to Al Qaeda is downright silly.

Wow, I might need to switch back to my cherry tactile blacks, this model m has LET me make typos all over the place

[wellington1869]

I'm not going to play a game of relative morality.  "Well, it's not as bad as what HE'S doing" is an argument used by children who have no self-control or respect for others.  Any comparing of the founders to Al Qaeda is downright silly.

agreed...

Something else I dont get about the relative morality that has gripped so many of my friends on the left:  Even if you (bizzarely) believed that the US founders are the same as al queda, then why wouldnt you condemn both rather than use that to excuse them? Invariably tho, the relativism argument is used to excuse al queda rather than condemn them.  Its just bizarre and goes against every leftist value I know of.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

[Oqsy]

Ok, back to the movie... The only time I remember being consciously aware of the work that went into the animation was the incinerator scene alluded to above.  It was terrifying and beautiful.  I have to say it made an impression, and the way a scene "looks" rarely does that for me.  The movie was very well done.  

Re previous post:  I believe I said above something to the effect of this movie "ending" the series.  I believe I was confusing Toy Story with Shrek (both big CGI blockbusters aimed at the same audience in 3d that opened this summer).  I know that the Shrek movie was announced as the last in the series, but I inadvertently applied that to the Toy Story series, even though I have not actually heard or read that anywhere.  That being said, it very well could be, as Andy is all grown up now, the toys have a new life, etc.  However, they DID leave the story wide open to pick up with a new cast of characters augmented by the old favorites.  Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that point since I realized my mistake today.

[chimera15]

My favorite scene was when they snuck in Totoro. lol

[chimera15]

Totoro!

My son and I will be at the Studio Ghibli Museum, just north of Tokyo, on July 30th, just picked up tickets.

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My son and I are big fans of the big fella.

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Lucky, always been my dream to go there. I'm a total Ghibli/Miyazaki fan since the first time I saw Nausicaa and Laputa in the 80's.  Yeah I was a "movie pirate" even before they had the internet or cd/dvd technology. roflol  My friends and I would get bootleg anime vhs cassettes from cons or a comic store that pirated vhs's off of laser disks, and then we'd sit around and try to translate them with fan printed translations of the movie, cause there weren't any real sub groups in those days, and they were all raw Japanese. roflol  We were hard core anime geeks even back then. roflol

When I was a kid, we had to walk 20 miles in the snow and rain to a comic shop that bootlegged snowy anime off laserdisks to get our anime, none of this new fangled internet youtub, databayo, toren, Disney partnership junk. Otaku's these days have it too easy. roflol

[EverythingIBM]

My favorite scene was when they snuck in Totoro. lol

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Why couldn't they be using an IBM intellistation instead of a stupid iMac? I guess that's the only BAD thing I have to say about the movie.

That gives me an idea... I'll get my old toy story toys and MAKE them use an IBM computer... it's crazy, but crazy enough. I'm sure buzz lightyear will be astounded at IBM's advanced technological features. Yeah... I still have one of those original woody dolls -- you know, the ones with the stupid nylon string that kept shredding due to friction.

[muchadoaboutnothing]

unfortunately pop and popcorn in manhattan comes out to more like 10 bucks.

Pop? Son, in New York City it's called soda.

[wellington1869]

Pop? Son, in New York City it's called soda.

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just tryin' to fit into the thread ;)
Actually I've always simply said 'coke' generically, and they just give you whatever brown colored soda they have (pepsi, rc cola, etc).  Some places still dont carry actual coke for some reason.  Rc cola isnt bad actually, the hot dog place near my high school carried it exclusively and I wound up developing a taste for it.

[ch_123]

lol, i appreciate what you're trying to argue here, tho I believe mandela is venerated today for having relinquished violence, which indeed he did.

Definitely, and he deserves a lot of respect for that. But when he was in jail, there were a lot of people who were like "Oh, look at the terrible injustice that has been inflicted on him" (still something that is painted in a 'bleeding heart' manner in textbooks when I was in school) when in fact, he was sent to jail for doing some pretty dodgy things involving people getting killed who didn't deserve or need to die.

again, while I appreciate your larger point, there are crucial differences between US founders and al queda, including the former fighting for religious tolerance (rather than intolerance) and democracy (rather than dictatorship) -- kind of makes a difference. No, they werent perfect, but that doesnt mean they're "the same" as al queda either. Quite huge differences actually.  Nor did they go bomb civilians in London as a matter of stated (and celebrated) policy while using their fight as a pretext.

All violence isnt the same; the justifications and arguments matter, because they dictate the extent and form and shape of that violence and the shape of the regime to come in the wake of it. Its alarming to me to see so many of my friends on the left imply that these differences dont exist. How many of you would rather live with the institutions the founders began, than under the institutions al queda wants (and in afghanistan, helped establish). These differences matter a great deal.

Yeah, this was something that occurred to me after I posted that. But nonetheless, many in the 'civilized' world would have seen the founding fathers as savages fighting the law of king, country, god and who knows what else... I guess I was making a point about cultural perceptions as opposed to directly comparing what they were about. Obviously some crazy ideas are proven to be more beneficial to mankind than others.

Something else I dont get about the relative morality that has gripped so many of my friends on the left: Even if you (bizzarely) believed that the US founders are the same as al queda, then why wouldnt you condemn both rather than use that to excuse them? Invariably tho, the relativism argument is used to excuse al queda rather than condemn them. Its just bizarre and goes against every leftist value I know of.

I don't like the idea of cultural/moral relativism, but at the same time, perceived morality is so intertwined with culture and personal experiences that the idea of an objective morality seems impossible. It's like when religious people argue for the existence of God by saying "Science cannot explain x". Who knows for certain that science will not be able to comprehend x at some point in the future? Likewise, as civilization advances, who is to say that certain thing that we deem to be wrong will deemed to be right, and vice-versa?

If someone from the Dark Ages was exposed to our society, they'd be horrified, and I think if we were exposed to society 1,000 years from now, something similar would happen. Obviously moral principles stand up to objective intellectual scrutiny moreso than others, but it would stupid not to recognize that a lot of it is really relative at the end of the day.

[Oqsy]

Relative to your society/culture is not the same thing as relative to what the guy next to you is doing.

[wellington1869]

Definitely, and he deserves a lot of respect for that. But when he was in jail, there were a lot of people who were like "Oh, look at the terrible injustice that has been inflicted on him" (still something that is painted in a 'bleeding heart' manner in textbooks when I was in school) when in fact, he was sent to jail for doing some pretty dodgy things involving people getting killed who didn't deserve or need to die.

point taken

I don't like the idea of cultural/moral relativism, but at the same time, perceived morality is so intertwined with culture and personal experiences that the idea of an objective morality seems impossible...

If someone from the Dark Ages was exposed to our society, they'd be horrified, and I think if we were exposed to society 1,000 years from now, something similar would happen. Obviously moral principles stand up to objective intellectual scrutiny moreso than others, but it would stupid not to recognize that a lot of it is really relative at the end of the day.

its funny, last time we argued these things you were adamantly on the side of objective reason.  
I agree the larger point you're making here, as I mentioned above as well.  Problem is, in cases like al queda, I think the situation is a bit more clear cut. FOr instance, people or societies need not "like" each other or even understand each other in order to pragmatically *coexist*.  The problem is, if one of those societies, "a priori" says that all other societies must die, that becomes an "objective problem" for everyone.  Its not a question of liking or understanding, at that point, because liking and understanding assume the possibility of dialogue.
Al queda precludes that possiblity at the outset. So did medieval christianity before the reformation (in its evangelical mode: one true church, one true god, convert or die).  So do some other groups and societies in the present or in history. THey all represent similar objective problems for the world. THe founding fathers of course did not hold those same ideals; quite the opposite, they were fighting those ideals (absolute rule of the king/church).

SO ya, societies are very different, but even in those differences, there are objective structural forms that can be identified and the consequences of holidng different values can be (to a useful degree) delineated.  Politically, it all comes down to the question of pragmatic coexistence and its possibility or impossibility, I think.