Endurapro's (used, no trackpoint)

[mcdonc]

Heh, no.  Not sure if that's a joke, but this is yellowing due to exposure to light, because the keycaps are not yellowed near their bases (where the light didn't shine).  Over at http://www.vintagecomputing.com/index.php/archives/189 (I probably got that link from another thread here) the guy consulted a plastics expert about this sort of things, and a common explanation for it is that the plastics which yellow over time have the wrong concentration of flame retardant.  It's pretty lame.

[mcdonc]

Maybe, but unlikely; these are fairly new keyboards made for some sort of travel industry.  (they're not retail EnduraPros).  And given than smokers are being herded out of almost everywhere, I doubt they let them smoke at work.

[elbowglue]

Smoker.

Show Image

That hand pictured is really young to be so smokey :P

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[TexasFlood]

Would the Unicomp blank black keysets fit these?  And could you get some of them if not buying a keyboard from them?  Might be easier and cheaper just to dye the ones it has?

Nevermind, looks like you can get a set for $20.  Not 100% sure it's enough keys for this keyboard and if that $20 includes shipping or not.  Guess I can call them tomorrow.

[mcdonc]

I sent them an email about keycaps earlier today, I'll report back what I hear. ;-)

[TexasFlood]

I sent them an email about keycaps earlier today, I'll report back what I hear. ;-)

Cool, you're ahead of me again, :wink:

[TexasFlood]

These got here.  They're in pretty dirty shape, but I'm typing this from one of them and it appears to work fine.  Not sure what they mean by "tracking problem"; the trackpoint appears to work fine on this one.

I also however bought a couple Mighty Mouse keyboards from the same seller.  Those are in worse shape (spacebar doesn't work at all on one).  But TBH I figured I'd be lucky if they keyboards worked, and really just bought those for the SDL cable anyway (I think they were $10 apiece or so).

I bought one Mighty Mouse from him and just got it.

Damn this thing came filthy, kinda disgusting really.  Makes me wonder what environment they came out of and what the lungs of the users look like.

Gave it a first shake-out to get out the loosest crap and a first pass fair external cleaning.  Based on what came off, it's likely that the same layer of black grime found on the outside is on at least some of the inside & that a good disassembly and internal cleaning is warranted although guess I could put that off forever if I wanted to as long as the surfaces I touch are reasonably clean.

Did the linux "sudo showkey -a" quick test on it and everything seems to work so guess I can't complain.  Seller did say "Item is tested and working but may have dirt or sticker residue on it (we have not attempted to clean these units)".  I agree with no cleaning was attempted, but "may have dirt residue" my ass, no question about that, :sad:.

Anyway, overall I'm not complaining.  Should be a good beater toy.  And as you said came with some fairly scarce cables.  So as disgusting as it was, maybe should have bought another, :wink:.

[mcdonc]

I bought one Mighty Mouse from him and just got it.

Damn this thing came filthy, kinda disgusting really.  Makes me wonder what environment they came out of and what the lungs of the users look like.
.

Yeah.  I bought two of those Mighty Mouse keyboards from him; neither worked.  I've asked him to either send me ones that do or to provide a refund.  I'm also not really into cleaning those things, I hope he goes for the refund.

Chuck from Unicomp said (re: EnduraPro keycaps / trackpoint nubs):

   Hello Chris
The key buttons are $20.00 per set and the pointing stick caps (nubs) are $4.95 for set of 3. Sets for the 1391401 and 42H1292 are also $20.00. You can order via email or phone. I will need your complete ship to address and credit card information.
My phone number is 1-800-777-4886

[ch_123]

I've sliced open Unicomp grey keys before.   Solid grey plastic with pretty metallic flakes.

Depends on the key. Usually the nub keys have the weird, yet consistent yellowing. On my Endurapro, they were the only two-part keys, leading me to believe that they are beige ones.

[TexasFlood]

Yeah.  I bought two of those Mighty Mouse keyboards from him; neither worked.  I've asked him to either send me ones that do or to provide a refund.  I'm also not really into cleaning those things, I hope he goes for the refund.

Chuck from Unicomp said (re: EnduraPro keycaps / trackpoint nubs):

   Hello Chris
The key buttons are $20.00 per set and the pointing stick caps (nubs) are $4.95 for set of 3. Sets for the 1391401 and 42H1292 are also $20.00. You can order via email or phone. I will need your complete ship to address and credit card information.
My phone number is 1-800-777-4886

Wow, neither worked.  I better do some better testing on mine, to be sure it all works after hearing that.  Now that it's clean enough to touch without cringing,

Below is a first snap after clean-up.  Didn't do one before, couldn't wait on the cleaning.

Do you think shipping is on top of those prices from Unicomp or included?  Guess I'd assume extra on top if I don't know different.

[mcdonc]

Depends on the key. Usually the nub keys have the weird, yet consistent yellowing. On my Endurapro, they were the only two-part keys, leading me to believe that they are beige ones.

On the four EnduraPros I now possess, it is the opposite.  On all of them, the nub keys are one-part keys.  One of the four has almost all one-piece keys except a few random 2-piecers (guess they're just pulling whatever they have off the shelves).  On every board, only the 2-piece keycaps are significantly yellowed.  None of the one-part keys is significantly yellowed.

Do you think shipping is on top of those prices from Unicomp or included?  Guess I'd assume extra on top if I don't know different.

I'm sure its plus shipping.  Nice quick cleanup job on the MightyMouse!  I know they're nasty.

[TexasFlood]

I'm sure its plus shipping.  Nice quick cleanup job on the MightyMouse!  I know they're nasty.

Pretty much done with Wet Ones Big Ones wipes and some Daybright Lysol spray clone.

These are the large wipes I like for clean-ups like this.  Ended up with like 20+ wipes looking thoroughly dirty, approaching black or at least dark gray.

Lysol type sprays might not be good for keys, not sure, but I wasn't in a mood to care, :biggrin:.  I tried not to get it inside the housings.  Like with the keyboard I held it upside down, sprayed it evenly then wiped it off so would not pool up inside.  Although in retrospect not sure that would have been a bad thing given how filthy it probably is in there.  But out of sight, out of mind right, and I just don't want a liquid short in there or something getting dissolved by sitting in a pool of solvent.

I first cleaned off most of the layer of crud, then sprayed it and did a final wipe down.  Well, final-ish, as every time I go back and run the tip of a wipe between the keys or in that little slot that goes around the sides and bottom, it comes up with a black smudge still.  So I didn't get it all but the surfaces I touch should be safe, :wink:.

I hate to sound paranoid but just don't know what might be on these things, just that it was a thick layer of whatever it was!  Looks much better and I feel much better toying with it now.

[fastbuck]

Pretty much done with Wet Ones Big Ones wipes and some Daybright Lysol spray clone.

These are the large wipes I like for clean-ups like this.  Ended up with like 20+ wipes looking thoroughly dirty, approaching black or at least dark gray.

Lysol type sprays might not be good for keys, not sure, but I wasn't in a mood to care, :biggrin:.  I tried not to get it inside the housings.  Like with the keyboard I held it upside down, sprayed it evenly then wiped it off so would not pool up inside.  Although in retrospect not sure that would have been a bad thing given how filthy it probably is in there.  But out of sight, out of mind right, and I just don't want a liquid short in there or something getting dissolved by sitting in a pool of solvent.

I first cleaned off most of the layer of crud, then sprayed it and did a final wipe down.  Well, final-ish, as every time I go back and run the tip of a wipe between the keys or in that little slot that goes around the sides and bottom, it comes up with a black smudge still.  So I didn't get it all but the surfaces I touch should be safe, :wink:.

I hate to sound paranoid but just don't know what might be on these things, just that it was a thick layer of whatever it was!  Looks much better and I feel much better toying with it now.

Do it the right way and pull the keys. I know it takes a while, but that's the only way to do it with keyboards as dirty as this

[TexasFlood]

Do it the right way and pull the keys. I know it takes a while, but that's the only way to do it with keyboards as dirty as this

I've come to the same conclusion.

Still think I would have done the same initial cleaning, or close to it, anyway.  I didn't know how to remove the keys and they were so filthy anyway.  After reviewing Ripsters M4 article, looks like the keys have a little offset latch on either side, just have to get that loose to get them off.

Then guess I need to soak the keys in some sort of cleaner for a bit, wipe off the plate underneath and put the keys back on.  I am afraid to run these through the dishwasher, not sure they would survive.  Probably some cleaning tips in the wike.

[microsoft windows]

Just don't bother cleaning it. Those keyboards aren't too bad.

[TexasFlood]

Just don't bother cleaning it. Those keyboards aren't too bad.

Right now I want to do clean it, but not, uh, right now, which probably means I may never get to it, :wink:.

[TexasFlood]

Do it the right way and pull the keys. I know it takes a while, but that's the only way to do it with keyboards as dirty as this

I took a run at it, as fast as I could.

Didn't take pictures as I was in a hurry and the keys all look pretty much like those Ripster posted in the M4 article.

What worked best for me to get the keys off was to use a hooked paper clip on a corner, jiggle it a bit, don't force too, just switch corners & keep trying, doesn't take too much effort.  Oh, need to take some extra special care on the keys with stabilizer bars (all the larger keys).  The bars all connect to the keys towards the "top" or "back" of the keyboard, and connect to the keyboard towards the "bottom" or "front" of the keyboard.  So what I did was carefully pry the key loose by the top corners then detach them carefully making sure to disengage the stabilizer bar correctly without breaking the tiny mounts.  If you don't think that you can be this careful and hold your force in check, might be best not to try removing these keys.

I cleaned it, not 100% but got most of the crap off.  There was some dried crusty crud, several chunks of black plastic in there, some crappy dirty dust bunnies, and a rusty paper clip trapped under the spacebar.  Some of the stabilizer bars, especially the spacebar one, had more then their share of dried crud on them, etc.  Besides being gross, this stuff could mechanically impact the function of the keys.

I rushed the reassembly and must have gotten some moisture in down in the case as some of the keys weren't working correctly.  As I have no idea how to open the case to do anything about it, I removed the keys and left it this way overnight to allow any possible moisture to dry out as there seems to be quite a bit more open space for evaporation with the keys off.  I put the keys back on and at least in an initial test all keys work now.

Overall questioning if it was worth the effort.  I don't think I would want to clean up something this bad all that often.  There are still spots where there is some gunk residue, hopefully sanitized by lysol , but it's minor and doesn't look obvious since it's all black.

Here are a couple of pictures with the keys off and rubber domes on.  I believe all the domes are the same except the blue one under the space bar.

[TexasFlood]

I actually ordered one of the Endurapro keyboards from the same guy as the Mighty Mouse came from.  After the horribly dirty conditions of the Mighty Mouse, I probably would have cancelled it if I could have as I didn't want to go through another cleaning like that.

It arrived this morning.  It was dirty as par for the course from this vendor.  I did my initial surface cleaning.  So far it seems like typical keyboard grime.  It was on the heavy side but not industrial strength disgusting like the Mighty Mouse.

Have to get the keys off to see how bad it is under there but so far not terrible and in a quick test of the keyboard it seems to work and be pleasant to type on.  The trackpointer seems to work but seems unGodly slow for some reason, perhaps a driver issue.

As for right now I would say that this was a good buy.  The Mighty Mouse I should have passed on.  Will post some more later when I have time.  I'm glad I wasn't able to cancel it, :wink:.  Thanks for the heads up on this deal elbowglue, :smile:.

Here is a quickie snap after initial exterior wipe-down, which didn't take more than 15 minutes.

[mcdonc]

I asked for an exchange or refund from the same seller for the items I got which did not work, but he hasn't yet responded.  Which isn't a good sign, as its been 5 days.

[TexasFlood]

I asked for an exchange or refund from the same seller for the items I got which did not work, but he hasn't yet responded.  Which isn't a good sign, as its been 5 days.

How many non-working items did you get?  My luck has been better as at least in my tests so far I'm 2 for 2 everything working.  Guess I should take some time tonight and do a more exhaustive test on both before it's too late to complain though.  If you don't mind me asking, what are the symptoms on yours so I can check mine.  Thanks.

[microsoft windows]

That keyboard doens't look bad at all.

[mcdonc]

How many non-working items did you get?  My luck has been better as at least in my tests so far I'm 2 for 2 everything working.  Guess I should take some time tonight and do a more exhaustive test on both before it's too late to complain though.  If you don't mind me asking, what are the symptoms on yours so I can check mine.  Thanks.

I received 3 items that did not work: 2 Mighty Mouse keyboards (one the spacebar doesn't work, the other has random keys which do not work), and 1 EnduraPro that is DOA (bad controller probably); no keys work on that.

[TexasFlood]

I received 3 items that did not work: 2 Mighty Mouse keyboards (one the spacebar doesn't work, the other has random keys which do not work), and 1 EnduraPro that is DOA (bad controller probably); no keys work on that.

Given my experience with the Mighty Mouse I got, wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be crap under the keys physically interfering with the operation.  As I have said multiple times, mine was nasty and I found plenty of crap under the keys large enough to interfere with proper functionality.  Oh and did I mention it was nasty?  Cause I meant to say it was nasty.  It was nasty. :rant:

Don't know what to say about the Endurapro, if it's DOA, it's DOA I guess.

[mcdonc]

Given my experience with the Mighty Mouse I got, wouldn't be surprised if it turned out to be crap under the keys physically interfering with the operation.  As I have said multiple times, mine was nasty and I found plenty of crap under the keys large enough to interfere with proper functionality.  Oh and did I mention it was nasty?  Cause I meant to say it was nasty.  It was nasty. :rant:

Maybe (probably), but the offer was for a keyboard in working condition, and I really don't much want to clean these. ;-)

[TexasFlood]

Maybe (probably), but the offer was for a keyboard in working condition, and I really don't much want to clean these. ;-)

I don't blame you.  If I had it to do over again after the experience I had, I wouldn't.  It was horribly disgusting.  There were a couple of keys that worked but only if you gave them a good whack.  So "work" is a relative thing, they worked but not well enough to actually type on.  And once I got it reasonably clean they all work but not a great keyboard by any stretch.  You can type on it, sort of, but if you're used to a nice keyboard, it's a frustrating struggle to use.  It was a bad buy all around.

[TexasFlood]

That keyboard doesn't look bad at all.

So far I'm pleased with this one, unlike the Mighty Mouse which was an all around disappointment.  Only issue so far is the mouse speed but thinking if it works, it works, the speed must be a driver issue.  Since originally posting this I took the keyboard apart and it's become more apparent that there is probably some physical damage to the pointing sticks.  I'll have to look at it more closely, wonder if Unicomp sells replacement pointing sticks?

I had kind of expected the keys to be trashed and was thinking about replacing them with new Unicomp blank keys.  The keys turned out to not be all that bad though.  As you can tell in the picture if you look carefully, all the 2-piece keycaps are uniformly discolored across the top portion while the the 1-piece keytops are not (corrected after re-reading mcdoncs post).

[microsoft windows]

Those old trackpoints are just slow. They were designed for lower-resolution screens. You might be able to find some programs to really crank up the sensitivity though.

[TexasFlood]

I'm trying to do a thorough cleaning of an Endurapro and wondered who else has taken one apart before.

I got the keys off (and back on :wink:) both the tops and the base keys.
I removed the nuts and the top half of the case.
Thought I'd be able to remove the plate on which the keys are mounted but couldn't figure out how it comes off.  Peeking underneath kinda looks like it's taped on with a couple of strips of mounting tape.  If so not sure I want to rip that loose.
Suspect the pointing stick mount is damaged so was looking at how it's mounted to see if I could fix it somehow.  Anyway, if anyone has been here done that, would appreciate some expert advise.

[TexasFlood]

They use 2-piece keycaps (the metallic grey type) for every letter except the letters surrounding the trackpoint (because those keys have an indent where the trackpoint shaft goes) and the Windows and Alt keys, which are all one-piece.  The tops of the 2-piece keycaps are uniformly yellowed; they're not really salvageable except as a dye-job.  The 1-piece keytops are not yellowed very much if at all.  But in general, this particular keyboard is from 2006 and I have keycaps from 1986 that look a lot better.

On the other hand, this thing is great to type on.  Really excellent.  Maybe better than any other Model M I own (likely due to newness).

I wish, though that Unicomp didn't need to give in to the pressure of the market to offer this cheaper variant, because, it's.. well.. kinda cheap.  I think I might keep one of these and try to resell two of them on on EBay.  Or give them to friends.  Or something.

I just re-read your post and found that you had described which keys were discolored much better than I had.  I wonder if the discolored keys would respond to whitening toothpaste or retr0brite?  Outside of the discoloration they are physically fine.  I think that if I try anything with these it will be to bleach them.  If that doesn't work, or even if it does, thinking the Unicomp blank keys, although another cost, would be the way to go & end up with it looking like the below.  This is assuming I can figure out the issue with the trackpoint.  Wonder if Unicomp sells replacement trackpoints?

Not sure I care if it's made a bit cheaper than the old IBMs, it's still better than 95%+% of what else is out there IMHO.  

[TexasFlood]

Definitely a sharp 'board.

Though, is it just me or are F-G-H-J slightly yellowed? It's hard to tell, and if they are it's only by a very small amount, but something looks different about those keys (same for a couple of the larger keys too)

(point being, I'm seeing it on more than just F and J)

Hadn't noticed that but now that you mention it, think I can also see it in the pics here as well, like the below shots.  FYI, this takes a while to come up on my browser.


a

[TexasFlood]

It might break some ethical code but waiting a good 20 minutes for those to completely load (not an exaggeration in the slightest way) was frustrating enough to justify attaching them to this post for fast loading for everyone else.

{redundant pic links removed}

Interesting that those 4 keys seem to be affected. Those 4 do come out of a different mold than the rest of the single-size keys (F and J due to the nubs, G and H due to the trackpoint cut outs). B kind of has it too, but it doesn't look as bad (and it too is from a special mold).

Thanks, as I said it's slow from here but apparently even slower for you.  I could always go with the black keys and have an otaku Endurapro.  Might not show such variation as much.  Wonder if I could find it in the dark? :wink:.

[TexasFlood]

Looks like my Endurapro pointing stick is damaged.  Going to try & repair if I can figure out what the issue is.  Right now thinking part of the mount is busted so maybe can glue, perhaps epoxy or hot glue, it back on.  Otherwise thinking of contacting Unicomp to see if they would sell me a replacement track point.  I've never contacted them before though.  Seems like a lot of folks on the forums have contacts there though.  I could try the published number or perhaps someone PM me contact info for some Unicomp contacts?  I know we don't want to post it publicly for spambots to pick up.  TIA...

[kip]

I received my Unicomp from this eBay seller, today. The keys were filthy, like everyone said, but I don't see any yellowing or aging on mine.  I've been typing for the past three hours after getting it cleaned up, and couldn't be more pleased with the feel and condition of the keyboard. I've had a Model M that I gave away because of its weight and size, as well as the tiring action of the keys. I am not feeling that at all with he buckling springs in this board and love their stroke, as well as the sound. (Which seems markedly more quiet than the IBM I had.)

This reminds me of my experience with the Dell AT101-W. I picked up an old and very used but couldn't adjust to how it felt to type on. After getting rid of it, I picked up another AT101, this one new in the box. The difference was like night and day and the Dell has become one of my favorites. I think I'm going to experience the same thing with the newer Unicomp. Considering the price, I'm really glad I went for this deal.