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Offline mcdonc

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2nd Go-Around of Space Sav{ing|er}
« on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 02:09:32 »
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-MODEL-M-PS-2-Space-Saver-Keyboard-Grey-Logo-/230496348829?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item35aaa72a9d#ht_500wt_1154

Maybe it's one of you that has been listing this thing.  Apparently it's good only for parts; sounds like maybe a burnt controller.  It was originally listed at something like $80.00 starting bid (he got no no bids), now the seller has reduced it to $60.00 on the 2nd go-around.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #1 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 02:17:35 »
Huh?

Quote
Keyboard is in overall good condition.
Keyboard was plugged in and tested no obvious defects were found.
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Offline mcdonc

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« Reply #2 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 02:23:12 »
Quote from: kishy;200164
Huh?


Whoops.  I thought it was a relisting of this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-MODEL-M-SPACE-SAVER-VINTAGE-KEYBOARD-1391472-/160453071076?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item255bbf90e4#ht_2532wt_1139  (which is indeed still at $80 reserve).
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Offline kriminal

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« Reply #3 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 05:12:45 »
ewwww waste of money
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Offline jmpespxoreax

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2nd Go-Around of Space Sav{ing|er}
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 06:39:10 »
I asked this seller to open up shipping to Canada but he refused. I would buy this keyboard because I wanted to do a controller modification anyway, and it would be a neat project. Too bad he did not open up shipping when he relist it.
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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« Reply #5 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 07:43:46 »
Quote from: mcdonc;200163
http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-MODEL-M-PS-2-Space-Saver-Keyboard-Grey-Logo-/230496348829?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item35aaa72a9d#ht_500wt_1154

Maybe it's one of you that has been listing this thing.  Apparently it's good only for parts; sounds like maybe a burnt controller.  It was originally listed at something like $80.00 starting bid (he got no no bids), now the seller has reduced it to $60.00 on the 2nd go-around.


If nobody bids on it now maybe we can wait and have the price lowered on the 3rd go-around?  That would be ideal.
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Quote from: Frenir on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:16:48
Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:14:18
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline didjamatic

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« Reply #6 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 08:30:50 »
Good grief about 6 months ago I sold a working Mini that was missing a foot and it went for $70 no reserve and a complete working Mini for about $100.  $80 for a fried keyboard?  He must be related to this guy.
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Offline phoenix

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« Reply #7 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 08:47:37 »
Sometimes you get lucky. My M2 was described as "for parts/repair" but came in perfect working condition. I couldn't be happier :)
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #8 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 09:38:35 »
I wonder if you can stuff in a standard Model M controller and make it work.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #9 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 09:40:15 »
No, they're completely different.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #10 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 09:43:57 »
I bet if you gave the keyboard a good kick it would work.
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Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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« Reply #11 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 09:45:43 »
That only works with old external hard drives.  My brother dropped his and it stopped working, so I told him "Drop it again."  So he did.  And now it works.
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Quote from: Frenir on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:16:48
Quote from: Computer-Lab in Basement on Mon, 23 March 2015, 15:14:18
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #12 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 09:57:39 »
You might get your brother to back up the stuff on that hard drive... It's probably going to fail again, and dropping it will stop working eventually.
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Offline nowsharing

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« Reply #13 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 11:26:50 »
Quote
I wonder if you can stuff in a standard Model M controller and make it work.

This has been demonstrated to work with certain versions of the normal PCBs, even with space savers. I don't have time to look up the thread right now (on lunch), but some searching will turn it up.

It looks like the one in this auction is working though.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #14 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 11:35:59 »
Funny story.

Had someone ship me a hard drive in unknown condition, Kalok Octagon KL-330, 30MB ST412 RLL.

Tried to get it to go, no spin. Cracked open the lid thinking it was junk, I'd use it as a decoration somewhere. Noticed that the heads were out in the middle of the data area...head crash almost certainly.

Figured...eh...why not. Cabled it up again, powered it on, and it spun up...and worked. The ever-so-slight jarring action of getting the lid open unstuck it.

Working capacity is 19MB though, from assorted platter damage.
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Offline microsoft windows

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« Reply #15 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 12:36:54 »
Quote from: didjamatic;200223
Good grief about 6 months ago I sold a working Mini that was missing a foot and it went for $70 no reserve and a complete working Mini for about $100.  $80 for a fried keyboard?  He must be related to this guy.


Hey...it works great! Who needs keys anyways?

I'll offer the guy 5 bucks. I bet he'll feel that I insulted him.
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Offline pfink

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« Reply #16 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 14:25:07 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;200242
I wonder if you can stuff in a standard Model M controller and make it work.


It should work. skcheng put standard M controllers in several terminal minis (I believe kishy has one of them) and he said they work fine (except for the embedded numpad, obviously.)
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #17 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 14:56:08 »
Quote from: pfink;200398
It should work. skcheng put standard M controllers in several terminal minis (I believe kishy has one of them) and he said they work fine (except for the embedded numpad, obviously.)

Mine might have been swapped by Brian O'Neil (it was one of his sales to skcheng) but I do believe it was. What has me confused though is how there are no unused ribbon cable connector positions like you'd expect. Perhaps it's a normal mini PCB instead of a normal full size PCB?
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Offline pfink

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« Reply #18 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 15:21:33 »
Quote from: kishy;200421
Mine might have been swapped by Brian O'Neil (it was one of his sales to skcheng) but I do believe it was. What has me confused though is how there are no unused ribbon cable connector positions like you'd expect. Perhaps it's a normal mini PCB instead of a normal full size PCB?


If the embedded numpad function works then it's the former, otherwise it's the latter.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #19 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 15:48:28 »
Quote from: pfink;200450
If the embedded numpad function works then it's the former, otherwise it's the latter.

SKCheng told me it was PCB-swapped, when I looked inside the connectors matched in number of contacts (which suggests a normal mini pcb, yes?), but you never know...

What key combo do I press to activate that?

Keycaps don't have the legends for it.
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Offline pfink

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2nd Go-Around of Space Sav{ing|er}
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:03:24 »
Quote from: kishy;200471
SKCheng told me it was PCB-swapped, when I looked inside the connectors matched in number of contacts (which suggests a normal mini pcb, yes?), but you never know...

What key combo do I press to activate that?

Keycaps don't have the legends for it.


Shift + Scroll Lock should toggle the embedded numeric pad on a Space Saving M controller. If you turn it on and type J-K-L you should get 1-2-3 if you've got a Space Saving controller.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #21 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:13:01 »
Quote from: pfink;200479
Shift + Scroll Lock should toggle the embedded numeric pad on a Space Saving M controller. If you turn it on and type J-K-L you should get 1-2-3 if you've got a Space Saving controller.

Ha! It does!

Laptop numlock light came on. Beautiful.

One must wonder where Brian obtained mini PCBs minus actual minis.
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Offline pfink

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« Reply #22 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:24:42 »
Quote from: kishy;200482
Ha! It does!

Laptop numlock light came on. Beautiful.

One must wonder where Brian obtained mini PCBs minus actual minis.


What's the model # of yours?
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #23 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:33:13 »
Quote from: ripster;200489
I assume your keyboard simply has different keycaps.


Possibly, but I was told (apparently incorrectly, it appears) that it was a PCB swapped terminal mini.

No complaints, of course...

Quote from: pfink;200492
What's the model # of yours?


1394540. This reputable source suggests it's for an RS/6000 of sorts.
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #24 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:50:49 »
Quote from: kishy;200325
Funny story.

Had someone ship me a hard drive in unknown condition, Kalok Octagon KL-330, 30MB ST412 RLL.

Tried to get it to go, no spin. Cracked open the lid thinking it was junk, I'd use it as a decoration somewhere. Noticed that the heads were out in the middle of the data area...head crash almost certainly.

Figured...eh...why not. Cabled it up again, powered it on, and it spun up...and worked. The ever-so-slight jarring action of getting the lid open unstuck it.

Working capacity is 19MB though, from assorted platter damage.


One of my friends had a rather old computer whose 10GB hard drive eventually died. He found that taking it out and shaking it every time before he turned on the PC would cause it to work.

Obviously this was not sustainable, and his parents got him to ring up Dell (bare in mind that this was a family PC, and we would have been about 14 or so when this happened). He ended up in a 45 minute conversation with a call center chap in Bangladesh, which started with my friend telling him that he had a broken hard drive, and concluded with the call center guy informing him that he had "an errormatic [sic] with his hard drive".

The funniest part of the story? They were charged 200 euros for a replacement 40GB drive, back when such money would have got a rather snazzy 200GB drive, and even the 80GB drive in the computer I had seemed like a gigantic amount of space to have.

This is one of the many reasons I do not like big name computer manufactures...
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #25 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:50:57 »
Quote from: ripster;200501
Oh, now it makes sense.  A PCB from another IBM Model M Mini was popped into a Terminal Mini.


That's kind of a weird thing to do......


Well, now that I'm seeing it's from an RS/6000, there may not have been any swapping at all.

But, if the whole keyboard were for an RS/6000, it'd probably still have the speaker...wouldn't it?
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #26 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 16:53:10 »
I don't think they made RS/6000 space savers, and yes, RS/6000 Model Ms have speakers.

They also have a weird left control key, and they retained the grey logo till about 94/95 or so.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #27 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 18:09:07 »
1394540 is supposedly for RS/6000. I've got the case for a 1394540 and it's a mini.



No speaker present, but doesn't mean there wasn't before.

The controller in mine:



It's not original, but it's gotta be for a mini because of the number of positions in the FFC connectors, right? And of course the shift+scroll lock=num lock thing as well.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #28 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 18:23:06 »
Quote from: ripster;200530
I think that's an older Model M controller.  See the extra 4 pin connector for the LEDs?
Show Image


But why would IBM have designed the firmware for this to be able to do SHF-SCRLK number pad?

Yeah, that's weird...

Just tried Shift+Scroll Lock on a normal M ('89 1391401), didn't do anything except light up Scroll Lock as expected.

What was that ricercar did a while back with LEDs on a mini? Didn't his mini's PCB have a connector too?
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Offline ch_123

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« Reply #29 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 18:45:24 »
Quote from: ripster;200530
I think that's an older Model M controller.  See the extra 4 pin connector for the LEDs?
Show Image


But why would IBM have designed the firmware for this to be able to do SHF-SCRLK number pad?


If it was an old controller, it would have a berg connector for the yellow wire leading to the LEDs. What's pictured there is a run-of-the-mill '1401 controller.
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Offline Rajagra

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« Reply #30 on: Wed, 07 July 2010, 18:57:03 »
Quote from: kishy;200325
Noticed that the heads were out in the middle of the data area...head crash almost certainly.


Heads didn't park automatically back in those days. You had to use a software utility to do it before powering off, like the PCTools one. Most people didn't know or couldn't be bothered.

Sometimes stiction stops the platters from spinning. One way to fix this is to gently spin the drive in your hand with power on. Build up how aggressively you do this until it works.
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Offline ironman31

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2nd Go-Around of Space Sav{ing|er}
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 11 July 2010, 10:05:58 »
Shot up to 173.50
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Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/AT,  Noppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)


Pointing Devices:
Logitech G500, Evoluent VerticalMouse 3, Logitech G5, CST 2545W, Microsoft IntelliMouse Trackball, Logitech M570, Logitech MX revolution

Offline ricercar

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« Reply #32 on: Mon, 12 July 2010, 19:15:40 »
Quote from: kishy
What was that ricercar did a while back with LEDs on a mini? Didn't his mini's PCB have a connector too?

Quote from: ripster;200533
I thought he stuffed his Mini membrane into a later model PCB off to one side and made some connector to pick up LED power

kishy wins. ripster loses. It was a stock Space Saving mini keyboard: the PCB had an unpopulated 4-pin connector which tested to activate scroll lock, and caps lock and NOT numlock.
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Offline kishy

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« Reply #33 on: Mon, 12 July 2010, 19:43:58 »
Quote from: ricercar;202092
kishy wins. ripster loses. It was a stock Space Saving mini keyboard: the PCB had an unpopulated 4-pin connector which tested to activate scroll lock, and caps lock and NOT numlock.


That's worth a 'quote for truth'!

So then it's normal that my mini has the 4 pin connector?
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Offline pfink

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« Reply #34 on: Mon, 12 July 2010, 20:38:58 »
Quote from: kishy;202108
So then it's normal that my mini has the 4 pin connector?

I just opened one of my M Space Savers and the stock PCB doesn't have a 4-pin connector (sorry, don't have a camera handy at the moment.)
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Offline ricercar

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« Reply #35 on: Tue, 13 July 2010, 03:39:04 »
Quote from: kishy;202108
So then it's normal that my mini has the 4 pin connector?


jives with my experience. however, in truth, I don't recall if the connector was actually populated.
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