Author Topic: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 10/04/2020 Update  (Read 8327 times)

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Offline Funnycolorsman92

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UPDATE 10/4/2020: Funny is back after a 4 week hiatus, I was moving my operation to a new location closer to home! Wires have arrived and are working great (check video below) price updates and explanation, Vender has been chosen and I am excited to work with https://keebmeup.com/index.php

Hi everyone, this is my first post on Geek Hack!
My name is Funnycolorsman92 (Funny for short) and I have been apart of the community for a little over 2 years now just lurking, and I have to say that I love the DIY nature of it.  This is not a new concept, but I over the past 4 months of research and development I have made some really big improvements over previous designs of an alps to Cherry Adapter with a few more additions that were never addressed in previous attempts.  This post is a gauge to see whether or not people would be interested in the product, but also a way to gauge just how big the alps community is!  If you own an Alps keyboard, this data will be used to gauge interest and potential GB's for alps keycaps.  So it would mean the world to me if everyone spreads this form around!

Alps-MX adapter poll:
https://forms.gle/hy9gayjivc9pe9az7

Vender Link:
https://keebmeup.com/index.php

Background information:
This project has been a 4 month long adventure, with a lot of prototyping and revisions, and resin tolerance testing, and most importantly a lot of support and help from some dank people in this community! A lot of other attempts had been made in the past by other creators, but I do not believe that anyone has ever gone this far to have every variable accounted for when it comes to compatibility.  Thanks to SLA printing having a low barrier to entry I have developed a lot of designs for adapters that simply would not work on a traditional FDM printer, or at least not to the same tolerance and accuracy as I have been able to achieve. My goal was to set out and create an adapter that can take any cherry MX keycap work with any standard Alps keyswitch, that goal quickly changed once I figured out why no one has really pursued this idea to its fullest extent, because of some pretty major road blocks; that being what do you do about the stabilized keys? I am glad to say I have answers to those solutions as well!     

Goals:
I started this project with really no expectations, but as more and more issues arose I made some goals for what I wanted done:
1.Tolerances: Making sure that adapters printed correctly, and with in my margin of error

2.Total compatibility with any profile keycaps: This is a little bit more challenging I have no doubt that GMK EPBT will fit on very well and most OEM cherry caps should be fine as well, but in reality my adapters are with in a .03mm Margin of error and some manufacturers have higher acceptable tolerances than that so while I do not think it has universal compatibility, it should be really damn good. 

3.As little additional height as humanly possible as to not ruin the look, feel, stability of the switches and keycaps, The final additional height to the overall design is roughly 2.75mm from standard OEM alps keycaps.

4.Fully reversible with no damage to the keycaps or alps switches: Making sure that the adapters do not compromise the plastic from keycaps or Alps key switches and I can confidently say after much testing, it has been achieved  The goal was to make the adapters tight enough so that they wont come out from daily use, but loose enough so that if they snap in a keycap it is not the end of the world.

5.Stabilizer support for every scenario: I wanted to make sure that every possible compatibility scenario was doable, and with that I ended up designing and creating a MX to MX adapter for Cherry mx stabilizers, and a custom 2.75u wire for larger keycaps that would not otherwise be compatible.   

The Resin:
SLA printers differ greatly from their FDM counterparts, for one being a lot messier and for the most part much more of a pain to use.  With that being said I believe that the results still speak for themselves with just insane the tolerances are in printing.  I have developed a bit of an obsession with trying to find the right resin proportions for the strongest prints, allowing for genuine mechanical use rather than just for prototyping.  A sort of "secret sauce" has been made to create some pretty insanely strong parts.  The best example I can give of just what the resin is capable of doing is creating functioning silencers for 9mm firearms, which is pretty dope.  The only draw back to using multiple resins to create prints is upfront material cost, which will be somewhat reflected in price. 
 
The Design:





I am proud to introduce Funny Adapters! Like I previously mentioned, the design went through some pretty radical changes over the last 4 months, I have lost count of the amount of revisions, but I believe it is somewhere in the 20-25 range (still counting). The main reason for the shear amount of revisions is due to tolerance error and printer variables. It took a very long time to zero in the right dimensions for the X,Y, and Z axis to finally get to the point that the printer was producing parts with in an acceptable margin of error of roughly .03-.01mm.  All of that for some really good end results.   

The Great Stabilizer Debacle:

Old Design:


New Design (testing in progress):





New 2.75u Wire vs AEK II





New 2.75u shift in action:
https://imgur.com/MKY2DsY

Alright so this is the falling off point where a lot of threads talking about adapters just kind of die out, from my understanding there are 2 major types of stabilizer types used for alps builds, the common wire mount stabs salvaged from AEK boards and Cherry MX stabilizers used with DIY 60% boards.  So for 2u stabilized keys matias wires are MANDATORY, they are shorter than AEK standard wires height wise, and are available for purchase from the matias website and come with a bunch of other goodies that you will need to able to mount Cherry keycaps, same goes for spacebar, Matias wire and the included costar inserts will be used for that key.  Leaving one elephant in the room, the dreaded 2.75u key.  Matias wires are simply not wide enough to fit into both of the snap in points on the plate and AEK wires are too tall and even if they did manage to fit there is another problem, Cherry standard 2.75u keys use 2u stabilizer mounts meaning that the wire is not long enough to reach the costar inserts.  HOWEVER! A custom wire bending manufacturer has been contacted to create a custom bent wire that will be compatible with standard AEK 2.75u spacing.  I have not forgotten about the Cherry MX stabilizer crowed, however small you may be, I have a solution for you as well, no longer will you have to suffer using TAI HAO alps keycaps with cherry stabilizer mountings and their pretty meh color ways because I have developed extenders that increase the height of the stabilizers so that they can plug into the bottom of the stabilized key.  I call them MX-MX spacers and like everything else you see they will be available for sale along side everything else I have mentioned. 

What You Will Need:
Wire Stabilizer Users:
-Matias Wire stabilizers and inserts for the stabilized keys purchased here:https://bit.ly/31RArJh
-A custom 2.75u wire if your layout has any 2.75u keys
-Funny Adapters
-Cherry MX Keycaps
Cherry Stabilizer Users:
-Funny Adapters
-MX to MX spacers
-Cherry MX Keycaps

The OH $H*T Scenario



I know what you are about to say, "I just put on my fancy 100+ dollar keycaps and one of the adapters broke and now my keycap is useless!"
Some steps to takes if and when this happens:
-Calm down
-Deep breath
-These things happen
-Resin is not perfect
-Funny has thought of this a long time ago
-There is a solution
-Funny also wants to use his fancy GMK keycaps on alps boards too with out ruining them
There is a SOLUTION!  The reason that two of the sides of the adapter are shorter than the others is to allow a pair of angled or thin tweezers to be safely inserted into the keycap and simply removed with out any problem or stretching to the caps.  Mind you this fail safe also applies to the stabilized keys.  Any 1mm diameter, or just really thin pair of tweezers should work, and if they are serrated that is even better, because there is more surface area to cause friction with when gripping the resin adapter, available on amazon for about 6 dollars.  As for an adapter getting stuck in the alps stem, well Alps has thought of a solution for that, by disassembling the key switch it is possible to take a pair of tweezers, or something long and thin and simply push the adapter bottom out of the stem. Recommended tweezer for pulling any broken adapters can be purchased here: https://amzn.to/3eTJo8w  
Adapter pulling demonstration in this baller 4 second video:
https://i.imgur.com/NO2taBB.mp4

What is currently happening (changed!):
-Interest Check starting: 7/3/2020
-First Batch of Custom Wire has arrived test video: https://imgur.com/MKY2DsY
-Print designs for Funny adapters are finalized, Mx-Mx spacers have been redesigned should be finished testing with in a week
-Vender Chosen! Check out https://keebmeup.com/index.php
-Launch is happening once the website page for Funny adapters is set up and I test the new MX to MX spacers which should take a week tops (new name for the Mx to Mx adapters)


Pricing (changed!) Shipping is now calculated in price (was not before sorry if I was not clear about that)
-Current rate Funny Adapters 75pcs for $25.00 USD Shipped [CONUS]
-Current rate Funny Adapters 105pcs for $35.00 USD Shipped [CONUS]
-Current rate Funny Adapters 135pcs for $45.00 USD Shipped [CONUS]
-Current rate MX to MX spacers add on 10 sets/20 pcs for $5.00 USD Shipped [CONUS]
-Current rate Alps 2.75u custom wire add on 1pcs for $5.00 USD Shipped [CONUS]
-International Shipping will be available
-All sales will be conducted with Keebmeup
-Replacement adapters will be available for any damaged adapters on arrival, I will cover the shipping cost. 

TLDR:

ALPS to MX adapters available soon from new dedicated alps vender:https://keebmeup.com/index.php, 2.75u Wires have arrived and tested here:https://imgur.com/MKY2DsY a 2.75 mm height increase, works for MX and alps wire stabs (with new custom wire), fill out the IC linked again here:https://forms.gle/hy9gayjivc9pe9az7

Example Keyboards (NEW):
If you are feeling bold, Funny adapters can be flipped to work with the weird F row on AEK boards.Do this at your own risk, it may stretch the Vertical cross stem on the keycap.
More images coming soon, adapters are being sent out to alps enthusiasts for photo shoots!




New personal orange alps build for testing:




   
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 October 2020, 21:07:56 by Funnycolorsman92 »

Offline jorj_mk

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:03:53 »
From the side profile photo posted, these increase the height quite a bit...
How is the wobble typing on them?
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Offline gnhuy91

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:06:51 »
interesting! filled the form and excited to get my hands on

Offline SantiGo

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:09:22 »
wow nice :thumb:

Offline bisoromi

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:10:42 »
How would this compare with Nexus sliders?

Edit: Have you considered injection molding?
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:15:40 by bisoromi »
(credits to Kokaloo)

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:12:45 »
It is not bad at all! SA has a little bit more than I would like on larger keys such as Tab, Capslock, but other than that, you really only get the key wobble presented in the actual alps switch, which is still less than some Cherry MX based switches from kailh.

Offline joecoolbob

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:13:10 »
From the side profile photo posted, these increase the height quite a bit...
How is the wobble typing on them?

The increased height might be a deal-breaker for me... still like the idea though
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Offline yoniwolf1202

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:22:09 »
Very interesting! Will keep an eye on this.

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:25:53 »
From the side profile photo posted, these increase the height quite a bit...
How is the wobble typing on them?
The added height is 2.75mm, SA is a little deceiving because it taller than standard Cherry profile.

Offline ilikerustoo

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:31:26 »
Any comments on the difference in sound?

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:39:13 »
Any comments on the difference in sound?
Depends on the keycaps, but I would say I have not noticed anything bad, if anything it creates a deeper sound.

Offline rockydbull

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 12:44:13 »
Excellent idea and if it can avoid the nexus issue of keycap stretching (from what I recall that was an issue like box switches) it is a sure fire winner.

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 13:11:47 »
Excellent idea and if it can avoid the nexus issue of keycap stretching (from what I recall that was an issue like box switches) it is a sure fire winner.
Issue has been resolved, I have gotten the tolerance of the adapters down to .03-.01mm (really really really small lol).

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 13:37:03 »
How would this compare with Nexus sliders?

Edit: Have you considered injection molding?
So there are pros and cons: first off this does not effect the internal mechanics of the Alps switch, it is stock as stock can be, all you are really doing is sacrificing about 2.75mm of added height for being able to use Cherry MX compatible keycaps.  injection molding would have been far too expensive and time consuming to manufacture, 3d printing may not offer as much structural rigidity as molding but the upfront cost is kept down, and with certain resin combinations you can get really damn close to what an ABS injection molded part would feel like.  As for nexus sliders, If this goes according to plan and I get enough financial support I plan on creating something far superior to nexus sliders and I am currently playing around with a few ideas for that.  But that is a "cross that bridge when we get there" type of situation right now.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:31:01 by Funnycolorsman92 »

Offline gnho

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 13:50:10 »
Nice, nice, nice... It would be great if you can test various keycap profiles to see which are compatible without any issue.

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:06:00 »
As for nexus sliders, If this goes according to plan and I get enough financial support I plan on creating something far superior to nexus sliders and I am currently playing around with a few ideas for that.  But that is a "cross that bridge when we get there" type of situation right now.

Curious how you have an idea that is "far superior" to replacing the top housing and slider as I did with Nexus. Given everything needed to allow MX caps to fit inside the switches (alps openings aren't large enough for a flawless conversion without modification) and to avoid crushing clicky leafs is a must if you are planning on supporting all variants and the only two ways to do this are how I did it (with a leaf travel limiter of some sort) or raise the keycaps up (which was a plan at one point but nearly every single person said they did not want that route).

So good luck on your adventure.

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:22:21 »
As for nexus sliders, If this goes according to plan and I get enough financial support I plan on creating something far superior to nexus sliders and I am currently playing around with a few ideas for that.  But that is a "cross that bridge when we get there" type of situation right now.

Curious how you have an idea that is "far superior" to replacing the top housing and slider as I did with Nexus. Given everything needed to allow MX caps to fit inside the switches (alps openings aren't large enough for a flawless conversion without modification) and to avoid crushing clicky leafs is a must if you are planning on supporting all variants and the only two ways to do this are how I did it (with a leaf travel limiter of some sort) or raise the keycaps up (which was a plan at one point but nearly every single person said they did not want that route).

So good luck on your adventure.
To clarify, I am sorry for my poor choice in wording, I genuinely think that Nexus sliders were a brilliant idea, but what I am currently playing with is more of a middle ground solution there are a lot of tests still to be done, and it might not work out. But I just wanted to say I meant no disrespect.
« Last Edit: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:49:17 by Funnycolorsman92 »

Offline BlindAssassin111

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 14:43:10 »
As for nexus sliders, If this goes according to plan and I get enough financial support I plan on creating something far superior to nexus sliders and I am currently playing around with a few ideas for that.  But that is a "cross that bridge when we get there" type of situation right now.

Curious how you have an idea that is "far superior" to replacing the top housing and slider as I did with Nexus. Given everything needed to allow MX caps to fit inside the switches (alps openings aren't large enough for a flawless conversion without modification) and to avoid crushing clicky leafs is a must if you are planning on supporting all variants and the only two ways to do this are how I did it (with a leaf travel limiter of some sort) or raise the keycaps up (which was a plan at one point but nearly every single person said they did not want that route).

So good luck on your adventure.
To clarify, I am sorry for my poor choice in wording, I genuinely think that Nexus sliders were a brilliant idea, but what I am currently playing with is more of a middle ground solution there are a lot of tests still to be done, and it might not work out. But I just wanted to say I meant to disrespect.

Hmm curious what the middle ground would be, guess we will find out lol.

Offline gnho

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 03 July 2020, 15:56:40 »
Just want to say that I do enjoy using the nexus sliders. In fact, I'm typing on them right now with blue alps + ePBT 9009. I also don't have to worry about these sliders breaking. This doesn't mean that it's the limit of what can be done. Just that more testing should be done to demonstrate noticeable improvement and trade offs. As an Alps lover I definitely encourage all the endeavors!

Offline Wolframme

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 19:03:34 »
As for nexus sliders, If this goes according to plan and I get enough financial support I plan on creating something far superior to nexus sliders and I am currently playing around with a few ideas for that.  But that is a "cross that bridge when we get there" type of situation right now.

Curious how you have an idea that is "far superior" to replacing the top housing and slider as I did with Nexus. Given everything needed to allow MX caps to fit inside the switches (alps openings aren't large enough for a flawless conversion without modification) and to avoid crushing clicky leafs is a must if you are planning on supporting all variants and the only two ways to do this are how I did it (with a leaf travel limiter of some sort) or raise the keycaps up (which was a plan at one point but nearly every single person said they did not want that route).

So good luck on your adventure.
To clarify, I am sorry for my poor choice in wording, I genuinely think that Nexus sliders were a brilliant idea, but what I am currently playing with is more of a middle ground solution there are a lot of tests still to be done, and it might not work out. But I just wanted to say I meant no disrespect.

In my experience the Nexus Housings/Sliders were not a great solution as I hoped they'd be. Looking forward to your converters and possibly a more middle ground design!

Offline Hak Foo

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 04 July 2020, 22:18:25 »
IMO, the appeal of this type of adapter is that it's much lower commitment.  If I want to use Nexus Sliders, it's a several hours process of disassembling every switch, chasing down springs that went away, and hoping I didn't mash any leaves or trap dog fur in the switches.  This is just "snap the adapter in" and equally easy for pulling out if I decide to go back to ALPS caps.

As a possible compromise-solution, I'd wonder what a "Tall Nexus Slider" would have been like.  You'd have that "it sits a few millimetres taller than stock" factor, but then you wouldn't need special housing cutouts because the cap would never enter the switch mechanism.  Still a bit of a pain, but half as many parts needed.
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Offline Curin Derwin

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 07 July 2020, 19:14:16 »
Needed! Following.

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 09 July 2020, 20:26:56 »
Thank you kindly!

Offline Skelig

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 11 July 2020, 17:29:59 »
I'd be willing to give these a try, though I'm slightly hesitant at the 2.75mm increased height. Especially with taller profiles like SA that sounds like it could be pretty uncomfortable.

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 11 July 2020, 19:15:17 »
I'd be willing to give these a try, though I'm slightly hesitant at the 2.75mm increased height. Especially with taller profiles like SA that sounds like it could be pretty uncomfortable.
A wrist rest is a bit of a must have if you do not use a floating hand typing style, or if the keyboard does not have a high enough tilt angle. 

Offline funkmon

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 11 July 2020, 21:27:12 »
IMO, the appeal of this type of adapter is that it's much lower commitment.  If I want to use Nexus Sliders, it's a several hours process of disassembling every switch, chasing down springs that went away, and hoping I didn't mash any leaves or trap dog fur in the switches.  This is just "snap the adapter in" and equally easy for pulling out if I decide to go back to ALPS caps.

Exactly. I'm in for it!

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 11 July 2020, 23:15:18 »
IMO, the appeal of this type of adapter is that it's much lower commitment.  If I want to use Nexus Sliders, it's a several hours process of disassembling every switch, chasing down springs that went away, and hoping I didn't mash any leaves or trap dog fur in the switches.  This is just "snap the adapter in" and equally easy for pulling out if I decide to go back to ALPS caps.

Exactly. I'm in for it!
That was the intended use case haha!

Offline Goo.

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 07/11/2020 Update
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 17 July 2020, 20:53:46 »
I am leaving a comment so that I won't forget this wonderful thing!!!

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 07/11/2020 Update
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 18 July 2020, 12:11:52 »
I am leaving a comment so that I won't forget this wonderful thing!!!
Your support is appreciated!

Offline Skelig

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 08/01/2020 Update
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 22 August 2020, 16:09:37 »
Any updates?

Offline Hak Foo

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 08/01/2020 Update
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 13 September 2020, 21:37:10 »
Were the wires delayed again?
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Offline Goo.

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 08/01/2020 Update
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 14 September 2020, 03:49:45 »
Bump to check if there is any updates...

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 08/01/2020 Update
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 03 October 2020, 22:34:03 »
Bump to check if there is any updates...
Update tomorrow, I think this will make everyone happy!

Offline Funnycolorsman92

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 08/01/2020 Update
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 04 October 2020, 20:59:57 »
Were the wires delayed again?
Wires are in! and they work great

Offline Skelig

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Re: [IC] Funny Adapters! Alps to Cherry MX adapters 10/04/2020 Update
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 04 October 2020, 22:57:12 »
Sweet, looking forward to trying these