wondering if y'all can help me pick out a keyboard?

[keyboardlover]

Hi there,

Well I'm interested in possibly purchasing a mechanical keyboard. I like the feel of the non-mechanical KeyTronic that I use at work, so I was wondering if there is a mechanical keyboard that has a similar feel? I am willing to buy used if I have to. Is there anyone who has used both Keytronics and mechanicals who knows of mechanicals with a similar feel? Also, I prefer a black color.

Thanks!

[ch_123]

The keyboard most similar to the feel of a Keytronic would be a Topre. They're also the most expensive ones on the market...

[keyboardlover]

The keyboard most similar to the feel of a Keytronic would be a Topre. They're also the most expensive ones on the market...

Hmm interesting...is the general consensus here that they're worth the price? Has anyone bought one and regretted it? (It seems from reading the posts that others have regretted other expensive boards, like the HHKB Pro). I'm not sure if I can justify spending that much. I just liked the idea of a keyboard that has the feel and response of a Keytronic but with higher-quality switches. Does anything exist like that (lower priced than the Topre)?

Edit:
Also, is anyone familiar with the KeyTronic CLASSIC-U2 keyboard? I thought Keytronic's weren't mechanical but this one says it's 'factory tested to withstand 20 million key presses'. I thought only mechanical switch keyboards were rated this high?

[Mental Hobbit]

Hmm interesting...is the general consensus here that they're worth the price?

No. There's general consensus here they're excellent keyboards. There's certainly no consensus they're worth the price.

[ch_123]

Any debate on whether Topres are worth the money tends to evolve around a metaphysical debate on what it means for something to be 'worth the money'

I'll put it like this. I paid 100 euros inc shipping for a second hand HHKB. It's arguably my single favorite keyboard, but that is as much to do with the features of the keyboard moreso than the Topre switches, although I like the Topres nonetheless.

I wouldnt pay $200+ for a Topre keyboard in a regular layout. I'd pull full price for a HHKB because I like it so much, but I'm not sure whether it is objectively worth $250 or whatever a new one costs. Hard to say really.

[keyboardlover]

Any debate on whether Topres are worth the money tends to evolve around a metaphysical debate on what it means for something to be 'worth the money'

I'll put it like this. I paid 100 euros inc shipping for a second hand HHKB. It's arguably my single favorite keyboard, but that is as much to do with the features of the keyboard moreso than the Topre switches, although I like the Topres nonetheless.

I wouldnt pay $200+ for a Topre keyboard in a regular layout. I'd pull full price for a HHKB because I like it so much, but I'm not sure whether it is objectively worth $250 or whatever a new one costs. Hard to say really.

Interesting...I guess right now I just can't quite justify paying a lot for a computer keyboard. I found the Dell AT101W interesting so I ordered one off ebay. I guess if I don't like it I'll get a Keytronic for home (and maybe in the future when I have more $ a Topre or Filco).

I have a Unicomp, but I find the buckling springs to be too loud and an HHKB Lite which is nice but too small for everyday use. Since I like my Keytronic at work, hopefully I'll find something of a little higher quality that is somewhat similar (or better in ways I never thought of). I guess I'm on the hunt for the perfect keyboard

[Superfluous Parentheses]

IMHO the AT101W is similar to the Key Tronic in "weight" - they're both pretty light to type on. The Key Tronic does have a more pronounced tactility, though.

I think if you're looking for something similar to Key Tronic for a reasonable price, and the AT101 isn't to your liking, I'd try and get a new ($60) or second hand (probably very cheap) Key Tronic designer.

[keyboardlover]

IMHO the AT101W is similar to the Key Tronic in "weight" - they're both pretty light to type on. The Key Tronic does have a more pronounced tactility, though.

I think if you're looking for something similar to Key Tronic for a reasonable price, and the AT101 isn't to your liking, I'd try and get a new ($60) or second hand (probably very cheap) Key Tronic designer.

Ok cool...that's helpful info. I think I might get a cheap Compaq MX 11800 too just to see if I like Cherry Brown's (I know they take way less force than the AT101W but who knows)...the addiction has started

[keyboardlover]

Have anyone ever heard of the Logitech Internet Navigator keyboard? I've had one of these for like 10 years or so. It's really nice to type on (feels somewhat similar to a KeyTronic, so I suspect it's a high quality rubber membrane). But I was just curious if anyone's familiar with this board and knows exactly what kind of switches it has.

[Parabellum]

The Internet Navigator is a blatant rubber-dome.

[timw4mail]

IMHO the AT101W is similar to the Key Tronic in "weight" - they're both pretty light to type on. The Key Tronic does have a more pronounced tactility, though.

I think if you're looking for something similar to Key Tronic for a reasonable price, and the AT101 isn't to your liking, I'd try and get a new ($60) or second hand (probably very cheap) Key Tronic designer.

Maybe I type strangely, but I've always found the AT101 to be among the 'heaviest' keyboards to type on. Those black ALPS switches have a nasty increase in resistance if you don't hit them exactly on-center.

On the other hand, I would recommend trying a Scorpius M10, and see how well you like the Cherry blue switches.

[keyboardlover]

On the other hand, I would recommend trying a Scorpius M10, and see how well you like the Cherry blue switches.

Hmm but aren't those supposed to be really loud? How does the volume compare to a KeyTronic?

[timw4mail]

Hmm but aren't those supposed to be really loud? How does the volume compare to a KeyTronic?

Well, they are louder than a keytronic, but a lot quieter than a Model M. I use one at work and haven't had any complaints.

[keyboardlover]

Well, they are louder than a keytronic, but a lot quieter than a Model M. I use one at work and haven't had any complaints.

Interesting...I may get one. Any idea how the volume compares to white clicky ALPS?

[timw4mail]

Interesting...I may get one. Any idea how the volume compares to white clicky ALPS?

Depends on the keyboard, but generally, quieter.

[microsoft windows]

You'd be better off just getting another Keytronic. They're good keyboards.

[keyboardlover]

You'd be better off just getting another Keytronic. They're good keyboards.

I may end up doing that...I mainly started this thread because I was wondering if there was a higher quality keyboard with the same type of feel. I'm willing to try a couple cheap mechanicals before I decide, but I can't afford a Topre atm

[timw4mail]

I may end up doing that...I mainly started this thread because I was wondering if there was a higher quality keyboard with the same type of feel. I'm willing to try a couple cheap mechanicals before I decide, but I can't afford a Topre atm

Don't listen to him... Rubber domes just won't do once you've gone mechanical.

[wellington1869]

Don't listen to him... Rubber domes just won't do once you've gone mechanical.

kind of like how you cant go back to greco-roman paganism once you've gone christian?

[keyboardlover]

Don't listen to him... Rubber domes just won't do once you've gone mechanical.

Hmm maybe...I'm not in love with my buckling spring so we'll see how I like my Dell AT101W and Compaq MX11800 (currently on their way to my door)

[keyboardlover]

kind of like how you cant go back to greco-roman paganism once you've gone christian?

LOL - if that's the way it is I'm going mechanical baby!!

[wellington1869]

LOL - if that's the way it is I'm going mechanical baby!!

I rather like my sprites and pixies

[keyboardlover]

I rather like my sprites and pixies

Hmm...I prefer Cokes to Sprites

[microsoft windows]

I may end up doing that...I mainly started this thread because I was wondering if there was a higher quality keyboard with the same type of feel. I'm willing to try a couple cheap mechanicals before I decide, but I can't afford a Topre atm

Topres aren't mechanical. They're just rubber domes and springs.

[keyboardlover]

So far I'm liking the Dell AT101W I ordered a lot. I was surprised that the keys didn't require as much force as I assumed they would, from looking at the switch diagram. Seems to be a solid board overall.

[itlnstln]

It's not a horrible 'board at all, especially at the price.  Glad you like it.

[wellington1869]

It's not a horrible 'board at all, especially at the price.  Glad you like it.

i thought you were talking about geekhack

[keyboardlover]

i thought you were talking about geekhack

Lol yea, and the price being trolls like myself

[itlnstln]

i thought you were talking about geekhack

Trust me.  I have paid the price.

I roughly added up all the keyboards I have bought since joining GH, and it came out to over $1000.  My HHKB + RF 23U alone was about $400.  I can't imagine how much Webwit has spent.

[ch_123]

Topres aren't mechanical. They're just rubber domes and springs.

They have metal springs. They are mechanical.

[ironman31]

Trust me.  I have paid the price.

I roughly added up all the keyboards I have bought since joining GH, and it came out to over $1000.  My HHKB + RF 23U alone was about $400.  I can't imagine how much Webwit has spent.

Yeah, I'm getting up to that point too... and I've only really been lurking here since the begining of the summer

[patrickgeekhack]

So far I'm liking the Dell AT101W I ordered a lot. I was surprised that the keys didn't require as much force as I assumed they would, from looking at the switch diagram. Seems to be a solid board overall.

I was not so lucky in the sense that mine required that I pressed on the keys right in the middle. Pressing the keys right in the middle was great, but if I did not, they did not feel great.

[patrickgeekhack]

I roughly added up all the keyboards I have bought since joining GH, and it came out to over $1000.  My HHKB + RF 23U alone was about $400.  I can't imagine how much Webwit has spent.

I'm close to that amount. My Topre was what got me close to it. This is why I sometimes don't want to think about how much I spent on keyboards. Fountain pens, stationery and italic handwriting books were the ones which hit me hard in 2010. I guess there is always something to spend money on.

[keyboardlover]

I'm close to that amount. My Topre was what got me close to it. This is why I sometimes don't want to think about how much I spent on keyboards. Fountain pens, stationery and italic handwriting books were the ones which hit me hard in 2010. I guess there is always something to spend money on.

This is what I'm trying to avoid. I like the information that I can get and share on this board, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm spending crazy amounts of $ on keyboards. Not that I think what you guys have done is bad (and arguably I'm sure you have a much more sublime typing experience than myself).

[gr1m]

This is what I'm trying to avoid. I like the information that I can get and share on this board, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm spending crazy amounts of $ on keyboards. Not that I think what you guys have done is bad (and arguably I'm sure you have a much more sublime typing experience than myself).

Well, you can easily avoid it (from my experience). I joined Head-Fi to get information on what headphones to buy. I figured that since so many people got sucked into audiophilia very fast, I would have to be gone really quickly. But I actually lurked for a while, decided what headphones to buy and have been happy with those headphones for about a year with no desire to either go back to Head-Fi or buy more headphones.

I guess I could say the same about Geekhack so far. After my advice thread worked out and I got my hands on the keyboard I wanted (with some common sense sprinkled into the advice, such as me deciding for myself that no matter how many Geekhackers tell me that spending $200 on a keyboard is a good idea, I will not spend $200 on a keyboard), I have no desire for different keyboards, especially after reading people's opinions on them.

Sorry for the long post.

[patrickgeekhack]

This is what I'm trying to avoid. I like the information that I can get and share on this board, but I don't want to get to the point where I'm spending crazy amounts of $ on keyboards. Not that I think what you guys have done is bad (and arguably I'm sure you have a much more sublime typing experience than myself).

This is an easier thing to do for some than for others. I ended up wanting to try lighter and lighter switches. I moved from Buckling Spring to Black Alps, Blue Cherry to Brown Cherry to Topre.

EDIT: Had I bought a blue Cherry keyboard first, I would probably have stayed with just one keyboard. That being said, I'm happy that I don't regret having bought any of my keyboards.

[itlnstln]

I know I always say this, but now that I have a Realforce, I don't think that I will be buying anymore keyboards any time soon.  Since lowpoly's project is shelved, and there's not really anything interesting coming down the pike, I don't think I will be temped by much.  I think it might be time for a little collection purge (G80-3000, MX SPOS, RF numpad).  I'll have to list those after I get back from Chicago.

Like patrick said, it's easier transition down in weight gradually.  Jumping from BS to Cherry browns is a tough transition.  I didn't really like Cherry browns going from ALPS.  After I used them for awhile, though, they became my favorite switch.  Now, I'm digging the Topres which are a little lighter than the Cherry browns (on some keys).

[keyboardlover]

I guess I could say the same about Geekhack so far. After my advice thread worked out and I got my hands on the keyboard I wanted (with some common sense sprinkled into the advice, such as me deciding for myself that no matter how many Geekhackers tell me that spending $200 on a keyboard is a good idea, I will not spend $200 on a keyboard), I have no desire for different keyboards, especially after reading people's opinions on them.
Sorry for the long post.

No problem; that's kind of how I am. However, I'm getting curious to try a blue cherry board, and I wish there was a common, inexpensive and well-made one that could be picked up on ebay cheap (like my MX11800 and AT101W). But that doesn't seem to be the case.

This is an easier thing to do for some than for others. I ended up wanting to try lighter and lighter switches. I moved from Buckling Spring to Black Alps, Blue Cherry to Brown Cherry to Topre.

EDIT: Had I bought a blue Cherry keyboard first, I would probably have stayed with just one keyboard. That being said, I'm happy that I don't regret having bought any of my keyboards.

That's interesting and makes me want to try blue cherry even more...

[patrickgeekhack]

I know I always say this, but now that I have a Realforce, I don't think that I will be buying anymore keyboards any time soon.  Since lowpoly's project is shelved, and there's not really anything interesting coming down the pike, I don't think I will be temped by much.  I think it might be time for a little collection purge (G80-3000, MX SPOS, RF numpad).  I'll have to list those after I get back from Chicago.

So you got a RF 103UB? It's a nice keyboard, isn't it? Good feel and low noise level. Perfect for the time when I need to be quiet.

[patrickgeekhack]

No problem; that's kind of how I am. However, I'm getting curious to try a blue cherry board, and I wish there was a common, inexpensive and well-made one that could be picked up on ebay cheap (like my MX11800 and AT101W). But that doesn't seem to be the case.

That's interesting and makes me want to try blue cherry even more...

Unfortunately, I don't think blue Cherry keyboard can be had for cheap on eBay. Some don't like the blue Cherry switches, but I think it's a good combination of click and "low" noise level. The noise level is lower than the Buckling spring and ALPS switches. Simplified clicky ALPS can be loud. Yet, the tactile bump and the click are very noticeable. I always thought that my blue Cherry board would bother my colleagues, but I guess I was more worried than them. I asked them if the click bothers them, but they said no. I think the answer would have been very different if I was using my Customizer :-)

All in all, it's very hard to tell whether one will like any switch until one tries it.

[ironman31]

I know I always say this, but now that I have a Realforce, I don't think that I will be buying anymore keyboards any time soon.  Since lowpoly's project is shelved, and there's not really anything interesting coming down the pike, I don't think I will be temped by much.  I think it might be time for a little collection purge (G80-3000, MX SPOS, RF numpad).  I'll have to list those after I get back from Chicago.

Like patrick said, it's easier transition down in weight gradually.  Jumping from BS to Cherry browns is a tough transition.  I didn't really like Cherry browns going from ALPS.  After I used them for awhile, though, they became my favorite switch.  Now, I'm digging the Topres which are a little lighter than the Cherry browns (on some keys).

For me I can easily jump between the browns and bs, and not bottom out much on the browns, but going from any keyboard to the simplified alps on the ghss is hell....(I think this might mean I really just dont like the switches )

[itlnstln]

Not to deride didja's efforts, but I personally think ALPS are pretty mediocre.  That said, small form-factor mechanicals are hard to come by, and you have to take what you can get.

[keyboardlover]

I was not so lucky in the sense that mine required that I pressed on the keys right in the middle. Pressing the keys right in the middle was great, but if I did not, they did not feel great.

I've just started to notice this too. I'm going to try switching to my MX11800 and using that for a few days so I can see the difference between switches. If you hit the keys slightly off-center they won't press down

[Voixdelion]

I've just started to notice this too. I'm going to try switching to my MX11800 and using that for a few days so I can see the difference between switches. If you hit the keys slightly off-center they won't press down

 
As I was just educated about this in this thread: suggestions for Blue Cherry MX? (Last but not Least) (don't mind the people having a bad day, the info was still discussed in some  detail) apparently the Cherry blues are designed to transfer force from  off-center key presses to avoid this specific issue.  I am assuming this also applies to the other MX switches as well?

And as to consulting here to avoid spending $ ... This did not work for me.  Who's sig says that about not helping you save $, but just make you feel better about the $ you spend? That was more appropriate.  Its odd how quickly I became obsessed with finding the perfect switch.  I never figured myself to be a person who would end up hoarding a bunch of computer keyboards - many of them over 15 years old.   To be fair though, it did take me about 4 tries to get the right model M  in the beginning.  Sellers at ebay have no clue how to ship one of those things without the thing getting bashed to hell on journey.  I had one arrive that looked like the package had been used as a wheel stop on a steep hill.

[gr1m]

As I was just educated about this in this thread: suggestions for Blue Cherry MX? (Last but not Least) (don't mind the people having a bad day, the info was still discussed in some  detail) apparently the Cherry blues are designed to transfer force from  off-center key presses to avoid this specific issue.  I am assuming this also applies to the other MX switches as well?

I think so. On my Cherry Black keyboard, all of the keys could be hit from any extreme angle and be depressed smoothly except for one which would catch, and that single switch was broken and I returned the keyboard.

[itlnstln]

I have never had any issues with off-center key presses with any of my Cherry brown 'boards.  Cherry MLs suck for off-center response, though.

[keyboardlover]

Does anyone know of a way to fix that issue on the AT101W? Would the only way be to swap out the switches? (Dunno if that's even possible).

[itlnstln]

It's just the nature of ALPS.  There's really nothing you can do.

[HaaTa]

Sadly, I passed the $1000 about 2 months ago.

For me, I like to have a different kind of switch depending on what I'm doing and the mood I'm in.

The lighter and smooth switches are nice for gaming: Reds, MYs, 30g Topre

The light and/or tactile are nice for documentation/general writing: Reds, 30g Topre, 45g Topre, Browns, ALPs (haven't used my ALPs board long enough to firmly place it with a task yet)

Heavier and/or high tactile are nice for *nix terminal environments and coding: BS, 45g Topre, MYs


I still need to pick up an MX Blue and Black though, perhaps an MX White and 55g Topre as well. That won't be for a while though.

[patrickgeekhack]

I have never had any issues with off-center key presses with any of my Cherry brown 'boards.  Cherry MLs suck for off-center response, though.

I have never had any problem of that nature with my Cherry keyboard either. Interestingly, I think this problem exist with real ALPS. My ABS M1 does not seem to suffer this kind of problem either.