wondering if y'all can help me pick out a keyboard?

[keyboardlover]

Wellington, you'd make a great Catholic with a suffering and persecution complex like that...

I'm a Catholic and I don't appreciate that. If you have a problem with Catholics, kindly keep it out of my thread. Thanks.

[ch_123]

I'm a Catholic and I don't appreciate that. If you have a problem with Catholics, kindly keep it out of my thread. Thanks.

As an Irishman, I am qualified to say whatever I want about Catholicism. Especially after what the church did to my country...

[keyboardlover]

Lol well, I used to think this was a great messageboard...

[keyboardlover]

As an Irishman, I am qualified to say whatever I want about Catholicism. Especially after what the church did to my country...

Got a problem with it? Tough.

I suppose that as an Irishman though, you wouldn't have the "class" to keep your religious opinions out of a thread about computer keyboards though, would you?

[ch_123]

I suppose that as an Irishman though, you wouldn't have the "class" to keep your religious opinions out of a thread about computer keyboards though, would you?

I'm technically a Catholic too. Getting excommunicated is not as easy as it used to be back in the good 'ole days...

[keyboardlover]

I'm technically a Catholic too. Getting excommunicated is not as easy as it used to be back in the good 'ole days...

I've read quite a bit and I know that being 'Irish Catholic' is hard and I know what a lot of people in your country have gone through. But I disagree with blaming the church as a whole, since being a Catholic is not the same in other parts of the world (despite what the pope may think or claim).

[keyboardlover]

You guys are going Off Topic.  I was in the middle of calling Welly a liar.

And BTW he accuses the Pope of Genocide.

Lol, you're NOT helping...

[ch_123]

I've read quite a bit and I know that being 'Irish Catholic' is hard and I know what a lot of people in your country have gone through. But I disagree with blaming the church as a whole, since being a Catholic is not the same in other parts of the world (despite what the pope may think or claim).

The Church as an organization, even up to the Vatican level, was very ambivalent to the bad things that the priests and bishops on the ground were doing. The fact that cover ups like the ones in Ireland are popping up in places such as Germany, Belgium, the US, Canada and others suggest that it wasn't just a once off.

But I agree, we're going waaaay off, let's just say no more for it.

[HaaTa]

You guys are going Off Topic.  I was in the middle of calling Welly a liar.

And BTW he accuses the Pope of Genocide.

Hmm, lemme see.

• Welly
• "The Pope of Genocide"
• Liar

What do these three things have in common?


If keyboards was the first thing that came to mind, you need some serious help.

[keyboardlover]

The Church as an organization, even up to the Vatican level, was very ambivalent to the bad things that the priests and bishops on the ground were doing. The fact that cover ups like the ones in Ireland are popping up in places such as Germany, Belgium, the US, Canada and others suggest that it wasn't just a once off.

But I agree, we're going waaaay off, let's just say no more for it.

I don't disagree...just saying it's not the same experience I had nor many others that I know. It's also an organization that's done a lot of good things that it doesn't get credit for. Priests have power and power corrupts. They also aren't allowed to marry, which I personally (and most of the Catholics I know) don't agree with.

(As you might be able to tell, for me being a Catholic is more about how you conduct yourself as an individual than anything else). And that's what I was taught to believe. This isn't the same as what is taught elsewhere, I'm afraid.

We've already gone way off. I've accepted it at this point

[instantkamera]

We've already gone way off. I've accepted it at this point

keyboardlover, Internet. Internet, keyboardlover. My apologies for not introducing you sooner, I thought you had already met.

I recommended the DAS because, while they HAVE had problems in the past, the recent iteration (which I can never remember the name of) is, by most accounts, a decent rival to the filcos.

[keyboardlover]

keyboardlover, Internet. Internet, keyboardlover. My apologies for not introducing you sooner, I thought you had already met.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I don't believe I've met sarcasm, would you be so kind as to introduce us?

[instantkamera]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I don't believe I've met sarcasm, would you be so kind as to introduce us?

Oh, I see what you did there.

[keyboardlover]

Das is good if you can get the student discount and don't mind the gloss (here's my review - 14K hits so somebody's reading it).  Their trouble ticket system (they sell it as Mojo Helpdesk - dropping the Germanic pretensions and going for Cajun I guess) really sucks though.   I've used it twice to RMA keyboards.

How much is the discount?

[keyboardlover]

It ends up costing almost exactly $100.

Best thing to do is to call Erin directly at Metadot and ask for the discount.  Their trouble ticket system sucks so best just to call.

Use this ID if she asks for proof.

Show Image

LOL good to know...thanks for the info

[wellington1869]

Oh.  Here we go.  Sounded like you swapped the USB version for the PS/2 version.


I'm not sure why you expected Brian O'Neill to pay return shipping for that.

But then you are a pretentious twat so I don't know how your mind works.

lol, you're right, the reason i got banned was even more stupid than that.

(Shows how little I cared about the whole incident).

But to clarify, so in our email exchange he indicated the return shipping would be free, and later I was charged for it. (which was what had surprised me). Now I dont care either way about return shipping,  and after paying it I merely indicated to him what he had said in his email and merely suggested to him that he should clarify his return shipping policies so there's no confusion for his customers in the future. Thats what I got banned for.

And oh yea rippy, thats a much better reason for banning customers.  

Dumb ass.

From 11 june 2009 (linked above):

did i mention i pissed off the esteemed brian? I tried to swap one keyb for another, he said fine, then charged me for return shipping, which I didnt expect. Which is fine, but I told him he should mention that in his return policy. Next thing I know I received a *very* sarcastic email informing me of the type of low lifeform I was, and he was giving me the shipping back but I was "banned" from his store forever more. Whatever. Seemed like a bit of an over-reaction, but you never know who you'll meet online

And anyway I took it as a sign from the gods to not keep buying keyboards that I dont need.

If this is what it takes to get "banned" by your favorite vendors, I bear the ban quite proudly.  Give me metadot and provantage any day.

[microsoft windows]

Lol well, I used to think this was a great messageboard...

Don't get worked up. Ch_123's just a jerk. Don't let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch.

[microsoft windows]

Ok cool...that's helpful info. I think I might get a cheap Compaq MX 11800 too just to see if I like Cherry Brown's (I know they take way less force than the AT101W but who knows)...the addiction has started

The brown Cherry switches are very smooth and light, but if you use one, make sure to type lightly as they are low-force switches.

[keyboardlover]

The brown Cherry switches are very smooth and light, but if you use one, make sure to type lightly as they are low-force switches.

Yea, I already discussed that in a previous post; that's exactly why I didn't like them.

[microsoft windows]

Here's an idea: how about you stop giving info and advice on topics you're not qualified* to do so for in an attempt to make yourself look like a valuable, contributing member of the community**.


* "qualified" IMHO would require currently owning or having owned in the past multiple keyboards of the switch type in question

** if the implication wasn't strong enough, you have been neither valuable or contributing in recent times. Nobody finds you funny or cute - we're all sick of it.

I've used keyboards with brown Cherry switches, including a friend's Compaq MX1800. So I think I have at least some knowledge on how they feel. I know I don't say a lot of valuable stuff, but I know at least  a little bit about most keyboards.

[washuai]

Why?

2nd EDIT: The G813000LRNUS2 is in stock and it says it has mechanical switches. Does that one have blues?

No G81 != MX switches of any flavor.

I'm not into troll feeding. When someone new to switches has demonstrated a taste for higher force clicky switches, then I think MSW was completely in line to remind that browns are smooth and low force.  For me, that's why I like them and why I expect to like Topre.
I'd also like to remind, people make a big deal about bottoming out on low force boards.  Really, as long as the noise isn't bothering anyone,it can still feel better to ones fingers, than not bottoming out on BS or cherry blacks, etc.  It does make a good note, that better feedback results in less bottoming out, which leads to somewhat faster typing.  I could see, even if someone bottomed out like crazy, still preferring a lower force board, depending on their priorities and preferences.

[patrickgeekhack]

I've used keyboards with brown Cherry switches, including a friend's Compaq MX1800. So I think I have at least some knowledge on how they feel. I know I don't say a lot of valuable stuff, but I know at least  a little bit about most keyboards.

This confirms that I was right to say that you have two personalities :-)

[patrickgeekhack]

No G81 != MX switches of any flavor.

I'd also like to remind, people make a big deal about bottoming out on low force boards.  Really, as long as the noise isn't bothering anyone,it can still feel better to ones fingers, than not bottoming out on BS or cherry blacks, etc.  It does make a good note, that better feedback results in less bottoming out, which leads to somewhat faster typing.  I could see, even if someone bottomed out like crazy, still preferring a lower force board, depending on their priorities and preferences.

Not bottoming out was the Cherry on the cake for me. Or, should I say not bottoming out heavily. I think most of us, if not all, do bottom out, but at various force. I also think that we should not think about the bottoming out thing. The first thing is to get to know the keyboard. Once we know a keyboard well, we "can become one with the keyboard." Then, we will be able to not bottom out heavily. Last, I believe that swapping keyboard regularly will cause one to bottom out more heavily. I noticed that when I move from my brown Cherry to my Topre. The Topre requires more of the force needed at the beginning of the travel.

Also, I may be wrong, my blue Cherry G80-3000 keys needed to be broken in. After some usage, the keys were smoother.

[washuai]

Also, I may be wrong, my blue Cherry G80-3000 keys needed to be broken in. After some usage, the keys were smoother.

I think you're spot on.  The need for cherry break in is in various posts.  Break in isn't just a Filco thing, it is a Cherry MX tactile switch thing.

[patrickgeekhack]

People may think Ripster and Welly are two fighting spouses. You said this...and you said this...

[patrickgeekhack]

I think you're spot on.  The need for cherry break in is in various posts.  Break in isn't just a Filco thing, it is a Cherry MX tactile switch thing.

Yes. When new, the blue Cherry keys are stiffer. Then after some time typing on it, they became looser.
Note: I'm talking about keyboards.

[Voixdelion]

Personally, I don't think I would want ever to buy something from someone who has a "banned customer list"

This is a stupid self-defeating business practice.  INGdirect has a policy of firing customers who call customer service too much.  

Maybe I'll just wait until the G80-3000LSCRC-2 is back in stock (or get one used).

2nd EDIT: The G813000LRNUS2 is in stock and it says it has mechanical switches. Does that one have blues?

In the Cherry models, you want the second letter in the model # suffix (as in G80-3000LSCRC-2 or G813000LRNUS2) to be "F", "S" or "W"  to indicate Blue switches  - hence the first G80 will have blues but the G81 will not- I finally figured out that much after getting a headache trying to absorb the wiki on that specifically...

We tend to go off topic after page 7 in a "What Keyboard To Buy" post.

Actually, I noticed it averages around a three page threshold for maintaining focus... on anything.  But don't take it personal, whatever you do.  It's just that without Webwit, there's no focal point for the trolling energy; Since he departed it seems to have gone a bit everywhere. We shall have to appoint a new troll lighting rod to take his place, and there seem to be several folks vying for such an honorable position.  I think Ripster wants it the most though...  In general, if it gets distressing, there is a useful "ignore" feature.  Most of the time I can do that without a button though...

Oh, and yes - I got the Adesso MKB-135b.  I did have to press and seat each keycap to even them out a little more as has been discussed, but now that's done I don't feel like there's any looseness in them beyond the designed "wobble" that is supposed to make for smoother off-center keypresses.  (What had interested me in the Filco was the taller keycap combined with the MX design of transferring the force.  My fingers are of some substantial difference in length and I was thinking that the larger surface area available to each might ease wrist tension somewhat if it were conducive to a more relaxed typing experience.  But it seems that I was already having accidental actuation of adjacent keys on this board, so if the Filco has more available area to do that in, then the issue might be even more pronounced.)  

While I would not disagree with some of the aesthetic complaints regarding the alignment of the keys printed legends, I can't say that it really bothers me at all.  I don't find that nearly as distracting as the brightness of the damn blue led; the color is pleasant, just needs a dimmer switch!... I don't look at the keyboard much anyway, but I do like the look of it better than both Filco and Das though I can't really say why.  I'm actually thinking about grabbing a second one since I like it so much.  With NKRO and the Media bells plus the USB hub, I'm thinking any build inferiority is kinda made up for in the features to dollar ratio.  And as long as she doesn't poop out for no reason or do strange things, I'm loathe to complain about it not being quality enough, at this point.  This is almost certainly the favorite of the lot thus far just for the volume control at the fingertips.  ****, if it had a calculator/numpad like the focus boards I might not even need those! (But THAT is pretty badass, though.  Wonder why that never caught on?)

[quadibloc]

Any debate on whether Topres are worth the money tends to evolve around a metaphysical debate on what it means for something to be 'worth the money'

Instead of metaphysics, I suppose this is something for the individual to judge - based on how much money he has available to him.

What is worth the money to one person, therefore, won't be to another, simply because of the value to them of whatever they would have to give up to spend that much money.

[Phaedrus2129]

G81 indicates Cherry MY switches, which are GOD AWFUL. Avoid at all costs. Period. And usually when you see "G80/G81" that means "G81 but we know they're unpopular, so we'll give people hope it's G80".

[spolia optima]

MY switches are just fine if you are a masochist.

[ch_123]

This is a stupid self-defeating business practice.  INGdirect has a policy of firing customers who call customer service too much.

Not if any further potential business is going to lead to more hassle than it's worth?

[Voixdelion]

Not if any further potential business is going to lead to more hassle than it's worth?

 
Isn't that some sort of fallacy in that statement?  0 business = 0 Worth so unless the customer is actively costing more than their own business it's still more worthwhile to have it - that tdoesn't even take into account what business is gained through them indirectly.     Generally I wouldn't advise firing your customers as a particularly sustainable practice.

[wellington1869]

Here's an idea: how about you stop giving info and advice on topics you're not qualified* to do so for in an attempt to make yourself look like a valuable, contributing member of the community**.


* "qualified" IMHO would require currently owning or having owned in the past multiple keyboards of the switch type in question

** if the implication wasn't strong enough, you have been neither valuable or contributing in recent times. Nobody finds you funny or cute - we're all sick of it.

come on kishy, over on the keytronics thread, nearly everyone who was dissing keytronics had never ever typed on one before. Didnt stop them (and no one stopped them), right?

I agree that some experience makes one's valuations look stronger, but you never know who has typed on what board unless they declare these things in the signature or something and not everyone does that.

[wellington1869]

Not if any further potential business is going to lead to more hassle than it's worth?

at what point do they decide that? After one call? Or after 100? Makes a difference, ya?  What if that call is arbitrary? Then its quite self defeating. The professional thing to do is handle all customers the same way - and thats in fact what professional outlets (from amazon to provantage to metadot) in fact do.  To not do it is to make a name for yourself as arbitrary and inconsistent or worse. And customers remember these experiences and pass them on to each other.  Far more business is lost than gained.

Professionalism is a great thing when dealing with your customers who are your bread and butter; whether a mom and pop store or a walrmart.  

Of course, there are plenty of outlets out there that forget this (two mentioned in this thread already). I think they live with the consequnces and thats their choice to make.

[Edit: What Voix said.]

[wellington1869]

My concern is not his lack of experience but rather stretching what experience he has to cover up his utterly worthless posts on the site (fraudulently creating the right to say "see, look, I posted on-topic")

i know a lot of his posts are like that, but was it so wrong to point out that browns are light? Did he really do much more than that?

note i'm not the only one whose saying this, a few posts up, washui said the same:

I'm not into troll feeding. When someone new to switches has demonstrated a taste for higher force clicky switches, then I think MSW was completely in line to remind that browns are smooth and low force.  For me, that's why I like them and why I expect to like Topre.

[microsoft windows]

I used to try and contribute good advice and information, but some folks here got nasty because I was a cheapie. So I decided that instead of leaving, I'd give myself something to do and get some entertainment by having sport with the jerks. But when somebody asks for advice on something I know about, I still like to give useful information.

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6450&do=comments&highlight=disassembled+keyboard
Yes, I used to actually contribute information and stories about mechanical keyboards. Can you all believe it?

I don't think anybody replied to the thread I linked (I forgot about the whole ordeal with that old M5-2 too!). It's a good read though.

[microsoft windows]

Webwit didn't give me too much of a hard time. I actually helped him get the M5-1 keyboard he was looking for.

I don't damage the image of the forum that much. Most forums tend to have at least one "crazy guy". It's more a few other members who are outright rude and insulting (I won't name them but I think you know) who you ought to be concerned about.

[microsoft windows]

Oh, I forgot! That was after I reported a post of his. He got kind of sour after that. You're bringing back memories.

[ch_123]

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6450&do=comments&highlight=disassembled+keyboard
Yes, I used to actually contribute information and stories about mechanical keyboards. Can you all believe it?

One useful post out of 3,200+? Impressive.

[wellington1869]

One useful post out of 3,200+? Impressive.

just sayin'.

btw, are we trying to lynch him for "uselessness"? Or for being offensive?

If "uselessness", I wonder if we should apply that criterion to ourselves too. Starting with, say, endless lego figurines.  Btw you know the "off topic" forum on gh is probably the largest section on this site. Lets put the microscope on all the posts there. It would only be fair.

If we're trying to lynch him for offensiveness, speaking for myself i've yet to see persuasive evidence of systematic offensiveness. There were a couple of truncated attempts to call him or EIBM a racist which didnt quite get anywhere. Just sayin'.

I know a post like this will make me even more unpopular among certain gh'ers, though I dont get why. I dont think i'm saying anything un-obvious here (or that hasnt been said by others).  I do consider most of you my friends, fwiw.

[iMav]

30 day ban.

[keyboardlover]

So in regards to my decision; I've decided to not get anything else for a while, but eventually I will get a blue cherry board (not Filco) and a used Topre.

[wellington1869]

Your points are valid, welly. However, they don't apply to MW because MW has even stated the fact himself that he is only here to irritate people and drag the place down. He requires no defense and should not be given one because he's said this...case closed, banhammer deserved (but won't be used, I'm sure).

stating it is one thing, actually doing it is another. I dont think he's actually done it.  Being off-topic doesnt count on a site that is like 70% off topic all the time (by our own admission, we go off topic by the 7th post in a given thread, if not sooner).

are we going to ban him for being off-topic in a bunch of posts? He hasnt targeted anyone and he hasnt been over-the-top offensive.  What happened to "if he bothers you, put him on the ignore list"?  IMav rarely bans anyone, it has to be something really grossly obvious for them to get banned (like a porn spammer or something).

[wellington1869]

So in regards to my decision; I've decided to not get anything else for a while

I admire your self control, lol.  Probably a wise decision.

[wellington1869]

30 day ban.

holy crap, what was he banned for?  For being off topic?!?!!?!  

He may have declared himself to be a troll, but you'd be hard pressed to find actual evidence of the kind of trolling that deserves a ban -- on this site of all sites!

[wellington1869]

Honestly guys, if you ask me MW just got banned for being unpopular among a small click of regulars. That was about it.

And so a new era dawns on geekhack.

[wellington1869]

What happened to the "loosely governed" site? What happened to using the ignore list? Holy crap, i'm genuinely shocked here.

[ch_123]

stating it is one thing, actually doing it is another. I dont think he's actually done it.  Being off-topic doesnt count on a site that is like 70% off topic all the time (by our own admission, we go off topic by the 7th post in a given thread, if not sooner).

are we going to ban him for being off-topic in a bunch of posts? He hasnt targeted anyone and he hasnt been over-the-top offensive.  What happened to "if he bothers you, put him on the ignore list"?  IMav rarely bans anyone, it has to be something really grossly obvious for them to get banned (like a porn spammer or something).

There is a difference between going off topic, and malicious derailment.

What was it that you were saying about relativity the other week?

[keyboardlover]

There is a difference between going off topic, and malicious derailment.

Lol, 'Malicious Derailment' sounds like a punk rock band name

[iMav]

I used to try and contribute good advice and information, but some folks here got nasty because I was a cheapie. So I decided that instead of leaving, I'd give myself something to do and get some entertainment by having sport with the jerks.

He gets a 30 day ban for publicly declaring he is here to jerk around the membership.  I have over 100 PM's from users complaining about him...but I saw no reason to ban or kick him.  

This statement, however, says to me that he is just here to crap all over the forum.  THAT crosses a line with me.