Drop Holy Pandas 2020 Run

[Missingnumber]

Has anyone else received their recent order from Drop for Holy Pandas? I just got mine and there are a couple issues I want a sanity check on.

First, they're factory lubed on the stems when the product page said they wouldn't be. Second and more importantly, the housing material is completely different. The description said it would be POM, and the material of my previous Holy Pandas switches' housings feels like POM. I also own the NK Blueberries, which are also made out POM and those Blueberries feel the same as my older HPs. But these new HPs feel and look very different. There's less stem wobble, but the sound is a higher pitch and the tactility feels weaker.

Does anyone know what is going on?

[equalunique]

The follwing may not be 100% accurate, but others are also raising suspicions about this.

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/

This comment in particular aligns with what you're saying: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/fydpgf0

Excerpt:

"I posted about this dispute a few days ago but mods removed it...

But basically MD has been deceiving the community. The forced factory to get cheaper materials...there will also not be a consistent quality between batches.

1. Switches are NOT pom. They are just colored to look like POM. The stem IS pom.
2. Switches come factory lubed, but its different and very little. This to imitate the POM material. You can see people starting to confirm it here: DROP com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/reviews/2663727

3. Original tooling for INVYR was never damaged, the delay was for other reasons

4. Stem is not original halo stem from kailh, its a clone. you can see subtle differences in tooling"

[clik_clak]

The follwing may not be 100% accurate, but others are also raising suspicions about this.

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/

This comment in particular aligns with what you're saying: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/fydpgf0

Excerpt:

"I posted about this dispute a few days ago but mods removed it...

But basically MD has been deceiving the community. The forced factory to get cheaper materials...there will also not be a consistent quality between batches.

1. Switches are NOT pom. They are just colored to look like POM. The stem IS pom.
2. Switches come factory lubed, but its different and very little. This to imitate the POM material. You can see people starting to confirm it here: DROP com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/reviews/2663727

3. Original tooling for INVYR was never damaged, the delay was for other reasons

4. Stem is not original halo stem from kailh, its a clone. you can see subtle differences in tooling"

Lets also remember that this Dinguschmuck person has provided zero proof of anything, and if you look at their post history, all they do is cause drama (and has fully admitted that that is their only purpose). They're making some pretty bold claims and just expecting people to believe them.

There's a couple things to remember: 1. Color has nothing at all to do with POM. Saying something looks different is proof of nothing. 2. Again, this is just wrong. The lubing does seem to indeed be somewhat erratic, but making a claim that they are lubing something to make it imitate something else sure seems like a shot in the dark...Again, no proof of anything. 3. Even if this was true, you better have some actual facts to be back this up. 4. Last time I checked, Drop owns the rights to the Halo stem. They can have anyone produce them that they want....That's the advantage to owning rights to something. It's not a clone if you own something and have someone else produce the product...On top of them providing no evidence that these stems are indeed not halo stems produced by Kailh.

[Missingnumber]

The follwing may not be 100% accurate, but others are also raising suspicions about this.

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/

This comment in particular aligns with what you're saying: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/fydpgf0

Excerpt:

"I posted about this dispute a few days ago but mods removed it...

But basically MD has been deceiving the community. The forced factory to get cheaper materials...there will also not be a consistent quality between batches.

1. Switches are NOT pom. They are just colored to look like POM. The stem IS pom.
2. Switches come factory lubed, but its different and very little. This to imitate the POM material. You can see people starting to confirm it here: DROP com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/reviews/2663727

3. Original tooling for INVYR was never damaged, the delay was for other reasons

4. Stem is not original halo stem from kailh, its a clone. you can see subtle differences in tooling"

Lets also remember that this Dinguschmuck person has provided zero proof of anything, and if you look at their post history, all they do is cause drama (and has fully admitted that that is their only purpose). They're making some pretty bold claims and just expecting people to believe them.

There's a couple things to remember: 1. Color has nothing at all to do with POM. Saying something looks different is proof of nothing. 2. Again, this is just wrong. The lubing does seem to indeed be somewhat erratic, but making a claim that they are lubing something to make it imitate something else sure seems like a shot in the dark...Again, no proof of anything. 3. Even if this was true, you better have some actual facts to be back this up. 4. Last time I checked, Drop owns the rights to the Halo stem. They can have anyone produce them that they want....That's the advantage to owning rights to something. It's not a clone if you own something and have someone else produce the product...On top of them providing no evidence that these stems are indeed not halo stems produced by Kailh.

You're certainly right about color not meaning anything. I may have been influenced by what that guy said on Reddit.

However, the housing and switch actuation does feel different to me from the old HPs I have. I should sleep on it and try out the new ones fully installed in a board to see if I like them.

[Hugs94]

Just to provide additional evidence, I burned both BSUN and DROP POM HP's.
A burn test will tell you quickly what is pure POM vs not. POM will burn and is not self extinguishing. Where as a common plastic using in switch housing, poly-amide or nylon, is self extinguishing.

[phinix]

Jeez, I'm about to hit the buy button on these - so does it mean they may be using diff material for them?
I would like to get those and for a first time try them out to see what people keep saying about them, being so amazing switches.
I don't want to buy these when these are not original HP.

Should I wait a bit and see if these issues get confirmed?

[meiosis]

Jeez, I'm about to hit the buy button on these - so does it mean they may be using diff material for them?
I would like to get those and for a first time try them out to see what people keep saying about them, being so amazing switches.
I don't want to buy these when these are not original HP.

Should I wait a bit and see if these issues get confirmed?

I think Deskhero (sold out here but it has some information you can look up https://www.deskhero.ca/collections/switches/products/nowyotrszmf8lv941xakq )  and Taobao had BSUN POM + "Halo-like stem" options, so you have more choices out there now.

[phinix]

Jeez, I'm about to hit the buy button on these - so does it mean they may be using diff material for them?
I would like to get those and for a first time try them out to see what people keep saying about them, being so amazing switches.
I don't want to buy these when these are not original HP.

Should I wait a bit and see if these issues get confirmed?

I think Deskhero (sold out here but it has some information you can look up https://www.deskhero.ca/collections/switches/products/nowyotrszmf8lv941xakq )  and Taobao had BSUN POM + "Halo-like stem" options, so you have more choices out there now.

Thanks, didn't know about those other sources.
Damn, missed Deskhero GB, it would be best pick.

So why Drop is telling that theirs are POM, when it looks like on those photos on Deskhero those aren't?

[keebpleeb]

Incredibly thankful that I stumbled upon this thread before purchasing any current-run HPs. Big thanks to Hugs94 for posting that burn test - this is pretty definitive proof that v2 HPs are most certainly not 100% POM as is literally advertised on the HP page on Drop.

[phinix]

Incredibly thankful that I stumbled upon this thread before purchasing any current-run HPs. Big thanks to Hugs94 for posting that burn test - this is pretty definitive proof that v2 HPs are most certainly not 100% POM as is literally advertised on the HP page on Drop.

Yep, dont buy them.
Wait for second Deskhero GB

I almost bought them today on Drop, but after seeing all this and Deskhero's discord posts, I decided that I will wait for second run and buy from them, as they are selling pure POM versions.

[SpinningHook]

I can't speak to any claims about the level of POM content, as I am not a chemist with the proper equipment to make that determination. However, in terms of lubrication out-of-the-box, none of the ones that I am using to type this feel overly lubed - I recently attempted to frankenswitch some Halo Clears and Yok Trash Pandas from NK together and definitely over-lubed some, so I have an approximation of how it would feel. Not sure if I just got lucky or if those experiencing the issues are the outliers.

[Techichi]

So it appears Drop has confirmed that these are not POM. Chaos has followed.

[phinix]

Yeah, and raised prices for those....
I'm not buying it, will get POM version next run.

[envyy24]

Drop also advices you to burn your switches. Oh yeah.

[Techichi]

I've decided to return the Holy Pandas. Hell I could buy 2 different kinds of switches with the money I get back. I've already committed to Blueberry switches. I might splurge on the Gazzew Boba U4 from 1up as well.

[Missingnumber]

I've decided to return the Holy Pandas. Hell I could buy 2 different kinds of switches with the money I get back. I've already committed to Blueberry switches. I might splurge on the Gazzew Boba U4 from 1up as well.

Being disappointed with these switches has opened me up to many different types. I enjoy using the Blueberries a lot, but my fingers get tired due to their weight. I've fallen completely in love with the NK Silk series. I've never liked linears before, but this helped me branch out.

[Techichi]

I've decided to return the Holy Pandas. Hell I could buy 2 different kinds of switches with the money I get back. I've already committed to Blueberry switches. I might splurge on the Gazzew Boba U4 from 1up as well.

Being disappointed with these switches has opened me up to many different types. I enjoy using the Blueberries a lot, but my fingers get tired due to their weight. I've fallen completely in love with the NK Silk series. I've never liked linears before, but this helped me branch out.

Nice. I'll take a look at the NK Silk stuff. Thanks!

[Neutral]

Hi, i saw this -> https://www.pcgamingrace.com/blogs/news/introducing-glorious-holy-panda-switches-preorders

this may be a good idea?

[Sintpinty]

The follwing may not be 100% accurate, but others are also raising suspicions about this.

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/

This comment in particular aligns with what you're saying: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/fydpgf0

Excerpt:

"I posted about this dispute a few days ago but mods removed it...

But basically MD has been deceiving the community. The forced factory to get cheaper materials...there will also not be a consistent quality between batches.

1. Switches are NOT pom. They are just colored to look like POM. The stem IS pom.
2. Switches come factory lubed, but its different and very little. This to imitate the POM material. You can see people starting to confirm it here: DROP com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/reviews/2663727

3. Original tooling for INVYR was never damaged, the delay was for other reasons

4. Stem is not original halo stem from kailh, its a clone. you can see subtle differences in tooling"

Oh no

[Neutral]

ok, so I should wait for another presale on the Deskhero site. Not other place (?)

[Sintpinty]

Drop also advices you to burn your switches. Oh yeah.

Context pls

[Neutral]

Oh no

Context pls

Sorry i am new and my english is little. But i don't understand your answers.

To be honest, I can’t even figure out who the official salesman of these switchs is.. I understood that these switchs depended on several manufacturers for parts. And that some lots did not have the same quality of plastic.

How did you determine at a glance that Glorious does not offer a good batch? On Reddit the announcement has positive feedback https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ikcbp3/the_future_of_the_glorious_holy_panda/

[Sintpinty]

Oh no

Context pls

Sorry i am new and my english is little. But i don't understand your answers.

To be honest, I can’t even figure out who the official salesman of these switchs is.. I understood that these switchs depended on several manufacturers for parts. And that some lots did not have the same quality of plastic.

How did you determine at a glance that Glorious does not offer a good batch? On Reddit the announcement has positive feedback https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ikcbp3/the_future_of_the_glorious_holy_panda/

Thank you

[Sintpinty]

Oh no

Context pls

Sorry i am new and my english is little. But i don't understand your answers.

To be honest, I can’t even figure out who the official salesman of these switchs is.. I understood that these switchs depended on several manufacturers for parts. And that some lots did not have the same quality of plastic.

How did you determine at a glance that Glorious does not offer a good batch? On Reddit the announcement has positive feedback https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/ikcbp3/the_future_of_the_glorious_holy_panda/

thank you

[econeuler]

Hi!
Any updates on this?
I ordered Holy Pandas from Drop in April, and I received them about two weeks ago. They came, unfortunately, factor lubed.
This surprised me since they advertised, and still do, "Unlubed from the factory".

I don't know anything about this, so I will not make any claims, but indeed it seems a bit sketchy doesn't it!

I'm thinking of cancelling my order for the new Planck, any thoughts on this? My reasoning, is that this feels a bit inconsistent, and
I've heard that they have had problems with the pcbs. Am I being paranoid?

Just to provide additional evidence, I burned both BSUN and DROP POM HP's.

Very interesting, thank you for providing this!

Edit_0: I actually cancelled my Planck order from Drop now, I will wait and see how this develops.

Edit_1: Reading the comments to this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/
    > "So wait, are the HPs I ordered directly from Drop still legit then?"
    > "Yeah this is talking about CN group buys that are propagating, not Drop's official HPs."

Further, a person from Drop answered in this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/higoqw/rumor_massdrop_is_deceiving_the_community_with/
implying that all should be good?

drop_official:
"I'm not going to comment about specific rumors, I'll just say/remind/educate everyone that unlike the old Massdrop, we have a 30-day refund policy on all Drop Studio products, so if you don't like it, you can get your money back.
This is a pretty major disincentive for us to try to trick the community into taking a sub-par product."

Edit_2: Further,

drop_official:
"It’s our product, we can’t sell a counterfeit of our own product. That’s like Louis Vuitton selling a “counterfeit” hand bag. You could argue that the quality of an LV bag isn’t the same as it used to be, etc. But if Louis Vuitton makes and sells it, it isn’t a counterfeit. More generally, companies that make things, like ourselves, aren’t able to produce things that are precisely identical forever. A red LEGO brick made 10 years ago has a different chemical composition than one made this year. Some “identical model” iPhones literally used different chipsets."

In the discussion on Drop's page (https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/talk#discussions) they have replied to some of the questions regarding their February 2020 announcement of POM housing:

- This was a miscommunication; Holy Panda housing is and has always been Polycarbonate top with Nylon bottom.
- If you purchased out of a desire for POM switches, we apologize for the confusion and we’re glad to offer a refund, please reach out to support via your transaction page.   
- If you purchased out of desire for the Holy Panda switches that have been highly recommended since release, know that your Holy Panda switches are representative of every other Holy Panda switch we have produced.

[shansoft]

Hi!
Any updates on this?
I ordered Holy Pandas from Drop in April, and I received them about two weeks ago. They came, unfortunately, factor lubed.
This surprised me since they advertised, and still do, "Unlubed from the factory".

I don't know anything about this, so I will not make any claims, but indeed it seems a bit sketchy doesn't it!

I'm thinking of cancelling my order for the new Planck, any thoughts on this? My reasoning, is that this feels a bit inconsistent, and
I've heard that they have had problems with the pcbs. Am I being paranoid?

Just to provide additional evidence, I burned both BSUN and DROP POM HP's.

Very interesting, thank you for providing this!

Edit_0: I actually cancelled my Planck order from Drop now, I will wait and see how this develops.

Edit_1: Reading the comments to this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/hsvrb3/fake_holy_pandas_are_starting_to_appear/
    > "So wait, are the HPs I ordered directly from Drop still legit then?"
    > "Yeah this is talking about CN group buys that are propagating, not Drop's official HPs."

Further, a person from Drop answered in this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/higoqw/rumor_massdrop_is_deceiving_the_community_with/
implying that all should be good?

drop_official:
"I'm not going to comment about specific rumors, I'll just say/remind/educate everyone that unlike the old Massdrop, we have a 30-day refund policy on all Drop Studio products, so if you don't like it, you can get your money back.
This is a pretty major disincentive for us to try to trick the community into taking a sub-par product."

Edit_2: Further,

drop_official:
"It’s our product, we can’t sell a counterfeit of our own product. That’s like Louis Vuitton selling a “counterfeit” hand bag. You could argue that the quality of an LV bag isn’t the same as it used to be, etc. But if Louis Vuitton makes and sells it, it isn’t a counterfeit. More generally, companies that make things, like ourselves, aren’t able to produce things that are precisely identical forever. A red LEGO brick made 10 years ago has a different chemical composition than one made this year. Some “identical model” iPhones literally used different chipsets."

In the discussion on Drop's page (https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-invyr-holy-panda-mechanical-switches/talk#discussions) they have replied to some of the questions regarding their February 2020 announcement of POM housing:

- This was a miscommunication; Holy Panda housing is and has always been Polycarbonate top with Nylon bottom.
- If you purchased out of a desire for POM switches, we apologize for the confusion and we’re glad to offer a refund, please reach out to support via your transaction page.   
- If you purchased out of desire for the Holy Panda switches that have been highly recommended since release, know that your Holy Panda switches are representative of every other Holy Panda switch we have produced.

I am not sure if the new Drop Panda is the same as before, but the housing color is slightly more transparent.
The bottom out sound is quite different, and the switch itself is VERY scratchy even with lube.

Overall, something is different different with the latest Drop Panda, which it feels much worse than before IMO.

[dwrowe]

Using LEGO in the context of quality standards is not a good move.  They have ridiculously tight tolerances on quality.