Author Topic: [Feedback] JTK Space Camp: MARS  (Read 2069 times)

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Offline kohalified

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[Feedback] JTK Space Camp: MARS
« on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 11:06:37 »
Space Camp: MARS
Inspiration
Space Camp is inspired by designer Tom Sachs and his Space Program series. This keycap set, like Space Program, attempts to capture the sense of space exploration and life on Mars as an astronaut, including the visual features of technology engineered for use in space, and the red-brown hues of an alien planet. The Space Camp incorporates elements from the DIY style of Sachs’ drawings and the colorway of the NikeCraft Mars Yard 2.0 sneaker.

While most designs associated with space use clean lines and a palette of sterile whites (think Stanley Kubrick’s A Space Odyssey), Sachs’ philosophy behind the hand-drawn aesthetic of Space Program is to experiment with how space exploration actually feels; the resourceful ingenuity needed to slap something together that just works, paired with the most advanced technology available. The Space Program aesthetic is one which fuses rugged punk, hand-made elements with high technology.

This project grew from an appreciation for the Mars Yard 2.0, and has since developed into a more fully-realized keycap set as we think Tom Sachs would have designed it.

Design

Space Camp uses reds, browns, and beiges to mimic colors found on Mars and worn-down space equipment. Certain key fonts include Tom Sachs’ signature handwritten style.

Kits
Base Kit
40's and Spacebars
Please note that the 40's and spacebars will be sold separately
Novelties
Colors
   

To-Do's
  • Acquire vendors(any suggestions in the feedback form would be great)
  • Acquire a manufacturer(currently entertaining JTK)
  • Deskmats(In Progress)
  • Artisan Collabs??
  • Additional keyboard renders(Trying to get my hands on the alice/clone case files)
  • Other kits depending on feedback
  • Proper color matching(I am currently waiting on my pantone swatches to properly color match)

Credits
  • Zoruge for designing most of the novelties and generally helping me throughout the design process
  • Special thanks to the Keycap Designer Discord for helping me to get my kitting right

« Last Edit: Fri, 11 September 2020, 13:03:44 by kohalified »

Offline zoruge

  • Posts: 1
Re: Space Camp: MARS [Feedback] Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 11:17:35 »
The set is coming together well! I want to get to cleaning up the new ISO enters and arrow key novelties you mocked up here next.  Looking forward to the future of this project

Offline Janoma

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Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 18:32:43 »
I may not be the most experienced keyboard geek, but I'll give you my opinion :thumb:.
The overall design is similar to retro designs like Red Alert and the likes. But those novelties and the inspiration behind them really gives this set an identity, and I can definitely see what you were going for.
Imo epbt would work the best for this, but take my opinion with a grain of salt.
Def will keep this set in my mind, hoping to see an IC soon.

Offline kohalified

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Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 03 September 2020, 01:25:43 »
Thanks for comment! We went through some iteration on the novelties, and they were the ones that were definitely the most challenging to get right. Zoruge designed the majority of it, so be sure to give him the props.

Offline LukesKeebs

  • Posts: 1
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 03 September 2020, 20:13:12 »
Looks great guys :)

Offline baksbaks

  • Posts: 10
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 22:20:53 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.
lurker since 2018.

Offline Janoma

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  • certified nerd
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 11:22:14 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.

What about the renders makes them "bad"? Aside from that, the set takes inspiration from Tom Sach's Mars Yard shoe and Space Camp specifically, so I dont think branching out is really necessary imo.
« Last Edit: Tue, 08 September 2020, 11:25:11 by Janoma »

Offline baksbaks

  • Posts: 10
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 09 September 2020, 00:13:05 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.

What about the renders makes them "bad"? Aside from that, the set takes inspiration from Tom Sach's Mars Yard shoe and Space Camp specifically, so I dont think branching out is really necessary imo.

Orange background blows out literally every other color in the keycap set and isn't enough of a neutral tone to portray the set accurately (or as accurately as some people's monitors can portray them). The inspiration that this set takes is very shallow in my opinion, and is really just a bad take on something that seems like a money grab for sneakerheads. Again, this is all my opinion. Feel free to have yours.
lurker since 2018.

Offline kohalified

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 00:15:05 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.
I'll be a hundred percent transparent. The project was never intended to compile the life's work of Tom Sachs and to even consider the possibility that I could compile, as your comment seems to allude to, his wide body of work in to one keycap set would be insulting to not only Tom as an artist but to his fans. As a matter of fact, this keycap set idea was only started by me choosing a color palette that I have never seen anywhere else but in the mars yard shoes, and the only reason Tom Sachs, and more specifically his space camp work, is even referenced is because he was the original person to have designed the shoes and to not recognize his influence would be very disingenuous. I do concede that the original description should have been worded more carefully to temper people's expectations, but I am a novice to this community and I made a mistake in that regard. I am determined to do as much of this as I can myself and I can appreciate any feedback that isn't "this is bad". I would like to think I am reasonable person, and likewise I would extend that assumption to you. But if you still think I am doing a bad job on the set I am more than willing to support you in your endeavor to make a better one. I would love to not have do any of the constant design work and tweaking and relegate that to someone else, having gone through some of the process.


Offline baksbaks

  • Posts: 10
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 03:50:51 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.
I'll be a hundred percent transparent. The project was never intended to compile the life's work of Tom Sachs and to even consider the possibility that I could compile, as your comment seems to allude to, his wide body of work in to one keycap set would be insulting to not only Tom as an artist but to his fans. As a matter of fact, this keycap set idea was only started by me choosing a color palette that I have never seen anywhere else but in the mars yard shoes, and the only reason Tom Sachs, and more specifically his space camp work, is even referenced is because he was the original person to have designed the shoes and to not recognize his influence would be very disingenuous. I do concede that the original description should have been worded more carefully to temper people's expectations, but I am a novice to this community and I made a mistake in that regard. I am determined to do as much of this as I can myself and I can appreciate any feedback that isn't "this is bad". I would like to think I am reasonable person, and likewise I would extend that assumption to you. But if you still think I am doing a bad job on the set I am more than willing to support you in your endeavor to make a better one. I would love to not have do any of the constant design work and tweaking and relegate that to someone else, having gone through some of the process.

I'll also be honest with you. Trying to do everything yourself is a brave endeavor, but it's quite a gullible approach to looking at pushing an IC without something solid (this includes professional renders). There's a reason I say this: anyone can design a set, pump out dakotafelder renders by themselves, and have a novelty set kind of done and push it out to IC; join the many tens of people pushing out ICs without doing any research into what that actually entails. I don't really appreciate the backhanded comment that pretty much reads as "if you think it's **** why don't you do it better"; its a cop out and not really something you say to someone trying to give you some feedback in a thread.

I really would have loved to see something original, with the inspiration taken from Space Camp and Tom Sach's Mars Yard sneaker as exactly that: inspiration. This seems to pretty much make its namesake piggybacking on someone else's design philosophy. While it may be well meaning, not everyone will take it that way. The color palette you're looking for has existed for years in lunarcore long before Mars Yards made their debut. His space camp work was merely his own personal interpretation of what that means. It stands that it should be up to you to choose your own personal interpretation for what that means.

Do your homework, do your research. I'll leave it at that.
lurker since 2018.

Offline Janoma

  • Posts: 23
  • certified nerd
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 07:12:40 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.
I'll be a hundred percent transparent. The project was never intended to compile the life's work of Tom Sachs and to even consider the possibility that I could compile, as your comment seems to allude to, his wide body of work in to one keycap set would be insulting to not only Tom as an artist but to his fans. As a matter of fact, this keycap set idea was only started by me choosing a color palette that I have never seen anywhere else but in the mars yard shoes, and the only reason Tom Sachs, and more specifically his space camp work, is even referenced is because he was the original person to have designed the shoes and to not recognize his influence would be very disingenuous. I do concede that the original description should have been worded more carefully to temper people's expectations, but I am a novice to this community and I made a mistake in that regard. I am determined to do as much of this as I can myself and I can appreciate any feedback that isn't "this is bad". I would like to think I am reasonable person, and likewise I would extend that assumption to you. But if you still think I am doing a bad job on the set I am more than willing to support you in your endeavor to make a better one. I would love to not have do any of the constant design work and tweaking and relegate that to someone else, having gone through some of the process.

I'll also be honest with you. Trying to do everything yourself is a brave endeavor, but it's quite a gullible approach to looking at pushing an IC without something solid (this includes professional renders). There's a reason I say this: anyone can design a set, pump out dakotafelder renders by themselves, and have a novelty set kind of done and push it out to IC; join the many tens of people pushing out ICs without doing any research into what that actually entails. I don't really appreciate the backhanded comment that pretty much reads as "if you think it's **** why don't you do it better"; its a cop out and not really something you say to someone trying to give you some feedback in a thread.

I really would have loved to see something original, with the inspiration taken from Space Camp and Tom Sach's Mars Yard sneaker as exactly that: inspiration. This seems to pretty much make its namesake piggybacking on someone else's design philosophy. While it may be well meaning, not everyone will take it that way. The color palette you're looking for has existed for years in lunarcore long before Mars Yards made their debut. His space camp work was merely his own personal interpretation of what that means. It stands that it should be up to you to choose your own personal interpretation for what that means.

Do your homework, do your research. I'll leave it at that.
Show Image


1. First of all, this is in the keyboard keycaps section for a reason. This is not meant to be a professional IC by any stretch of the imagination. Even so, this concept has obviously have had a lot of time put into it with the novelties and kitting.
2. There was no reason to link the Krelbit copypasta in here. That response was meant to give feedback to a newcomer to geekhack that posted an IC with no kitting, no colors, and no renders of any kind. OP was intelligent enough to realize this set was not ready for IC stage, and instead put it on a section fitting for the stage it is at.
3. I understand you have your own opinion, but at the same time being rude to a new designer is not the way to present it. He has his own concept, and you should not criticize him for his interpretation of Tom Sach's work, you should offer helpful feedback and if you do not like the set, do not invest your time into it.
« Last Edit: Thu, 10 September 2020, 10:52:25 by Janoma »

Offline kohalified

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 10 September 2020, 10:47:02 »
Hi, here's an opinion on the set itself. Set looks like a very base level effort that focuses on one work from a multifaceted designer, and seems to only scratch the surface of what could be possible with a "Tom Sachs" inspired keycap set. Colors are set for use within the studio, and one should stay within the colors in order to maintain a level base for completing this set. Running with this theme, I'd just suggest doing a lot more research into the entirety of his work instead of looking at it from the perspective of someone who sees one shoe and thinks "oh maybe we'll make a set based on this". I don't mind banking on another designer to sell your set, but the homage has to at least do the original designer justice. Renders are bad, fix the background or pay renderman to do them properly.
I'll be a hundred percent transparent. The project was never intended to compile the life's work of Tom Sachs and to even consider the possibility that I could compile, as your comment seems to allude to, his wide body of work in to one keycap set would be insulting to not only Tom as an artist but to his fans. As a matter of fact, this keycap set idea was only started by me choosing a color palette that I have never seen anywhere else but in the mars yard shoes, and the only reason Tom Sachs, and more specifically his space camp work, is even referenced is because he was the original person to have designed the shoes and to not recognize his influence would be very disingenuous. I do concede that the original description should have been worded more carefully to temper people's expectations, but I am a novice to this community and I made a mistake in that regard. I am determined to do as much of this as I can myself and I can appreciate any feedback that isn't "this is bad". I would like to think I am reasonable person, and likewise I would extend that assumption to you. But if you still think I am doing a bad job on the set I am more than willing to support you in your endeavor to make a better one. I would love to not have do any of the constant design work and tweaking and relegate that to someone else, having gone through some of the process.

I'll also be honest with you. Trying to do everything yourself is a brave endeavor, but it's quite a gullible approach to looking at pushing an IC without something solid (this includes professional renders). There's a reason I say this: anyone can design a set, pump out dakotafelder renders by themselves, and have a novelty set kind of done and push it out to IC; join the many tens of people pushing out ICs without doing any research into what that actually entails. I don't really appreciate the backhanded comment that pretty much reads as "if you think it's **** why don't you do it better"; its a cop out and not really something you say to someone trying to give you some feedback in a thread.

I really would have loved to see something original, with the inspiration taken from Space Camp and Tom Sach's Mars Yard sneaker as exactly that: inspiration. This seems to pretty much make its namesake piggybacking on someone else's design philosophy. While it may be well meaning, not everyone will take it that way. The color palette you're looking for has existed for years in lunarcore long before Mars Yards made their debut. His space camp work was merely his own personal interpretation of what that means. It stands that it should be up to you to choose your own personal interpretation for what that means.

Do your homework, do your research. I'll leave it at that.
Show Image

As far as the renders are concerned, I am slowly improving my skills at it, and like with any project that is a passion project I am in no rush to push this out, especially to an IC. Hence why this feedback post was created. I rather take the time and take in valuable community input, however, for you to come out and say I did not do my homework is a bit insulting. I also don't get why claiming that my color palette having been existed for years before the mars yard is relevant because I was telling you my inspiration. And I disagree that space camp is not just Tom Sachs' personal interpretation of what lunarcore means to him. It was an exploration as to the amount of effort and work it would take to be an organization like NASA and his deep admiration for the people working on such things, on top of all things space. As for the piggybacking on someone's design philosophy I am not even sure how to address that. Whether you think I'm following it or not following it. Furthermore, the only reason I said feel free to design your own is because you seemed to have very strong opinions as to how this should be done, and you seemed quite upset at the interpretation of Tom Sachs' work that has been done by us so far. But honestly I appreciate the fact that you have such strong opinions and if you want I'm more than happy to take your suggestions more directly if you want to pm me here or on discord (koha#4585).

Offline baksbaks

  • Posts: 10
Re: [Feedback] Space Camp: MARS Manufacturer tbd
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 11 September 2020, 20:25:58 »
"however, for you to come out and say I did not do my homework is a bit insulting"
I was just saying to do some more homework and research, not that you didn't do any at all. I apologize for posting Krels copypasta, it really wasn't the place for it.

"And I disagree that space camp is not just Tom Sachs' personal interpretation of what lunarcore means to him. It was an exploration as to the amount of effort and work it would take to be an organization like NASA and his deep admiration for the people working on such things, on top of all things space."
You pointed out that you were "choosing a color palette that I have never seen anywhere else but in the mars yard shoes". I just gave you an example of how you were wrong.
Art has different interpretations to everyone who views it. It's completely fine to have this perspective, or have differing viewpoints on the matter.

"As for the piggybacking on someone's design philosophy I am not even sure how to address that. Whether you think I'm following it or not following it."
Design philosophy is fine to follow, but I like sets that make their own path. I'd wager a few other people also share that opinion. I'd use it as a springboard to jump off of, as opposed to the strict rule set that Tom Sachs works all follow.

"Furthermore, the only reason I said feel free to design your own is because you seemed to have very strong opinions as to how this should be done, and you seemed quite upset at the interpretation of Tom Sachs' work that has been done by us so far."
It really didn't come off like that, especially in the way that you said it. I'm not here to take over a keycap set, I'm just here to offer (in my own view) constructive criticism. In response to Janoma's comment, our job is to provide constructive criticism to sets. I don't think its rude to present a valid opinion, and telling me to **** off if I don't like the set doesn't really hurt my non-existent ego lol

I really would have loved to see something original, with the inspiration taken from Space Camp and Tom Sach's Mars Yard sneaker as exactly that: inspiration (...) It stands that it should be up to you to choose your own personal interpretation for what that means. I'm glad you're taking your time and hope that you can work on this set more to bring it up to a level ready for IC, but I wanted to take some time to address the points you made in the prior post. Hope there aren't too much hard feelings, and best of luck bringing this set to fruition.
lurker since 2018.