Author Topic: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps  (Read 1502 times)

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Offline Mikhail

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Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 13:31:44 »
Aren't bad idea?

Seriously, why doesn't anyone copy DCS profile? Or something like Topre profile to MX stems.
If Topre are hype, why is topre caps aren't part of this hype?
How it works? Why are many profiles presented in modern production, but not DCS? Although many keyboards in the past had similar caps - Topre, NMB "Space Invaders", BTC.

In general, I wrote in Tai-Hao. Write you too, and we will hope for a miracle. :-X


Offline Rob27shred

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Offline Mikhail

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 13:46:00 »
Signature Plastics still produces MX & ALPS compatible DCS profile caps. https://pimpmykeyboard.com/all-products/keycaps/?search_query=&page=1&limit=51&sort=bestselling&Profile=DCS&category=33&is_category_page=1

I know, buuut SP's DCS is awful expensive for that quality and thin.

Offline ideus

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 13:46:05 »

I think that is more a matter of market demand and marketing strategy than a thing of just want it.

Tai Hao uses molds for the OEM profile, which is a bit taller than DCS. Production of DCS by Tai Hao will require new molds. Its investment is a matter of market demand, which by now is all OEM.

You should propose a GB to the community for a set of DCS shape keycaps manufactured by Tai Hao and quote it if demand is attractive. You will check if the need for such a product is there and if people are willing to pay the price.

DCS profile is similar to the Cherry profile, but with thinner walls. There is evidence that, at some point, there was a thicker version of DCS. Some vintage samples of Wyse keycaps probe it. It is hard to believe that people that like Tai Hao products may be willing to pay premium prices for a set of DCS like keycaps. But you should get your feet wet and try the waters by yourself.

As some one already pointed, SP is the DCS manufacturer, that already have all the molds needed for it.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 September 2020, 13:47:37 by ideus »

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 13:57:37 »

I think that is more a matter of market demand and marketing strategy than a thing of just want it.

Tai Hao uses molds for the OEM profile, which is a bit taller than DCS. Production of DCS by Tai Hao will require new molds. Its investment is a matter of market demand, which by now is all OEM.

You should propose a GB to the community for a set of DCS shape keycaps manufactured by Tai Hao and quote it if demand is attractive. You will check if the need for such a product is there and if people are willing to pay the price.

DCS profile is similar to the Cherry profile, but with thinner walls. There is evidence that, at some point, there was a thicker version of DCS. Some vintage samples of Wyse keycaps probe it. It is hard to believe that people that like Tai Hao products may be willing to pay premium prices for a set of DCS like keycaps. But you should get your feet wet and try the waters by yourself.

As some one already pointed, SP is the DCS manufacturer, that already have all the molds needed for it.


My idea is to convince the cheap mass market to release DCS caps without a preliminary hype with GB.
DCS and the similar profiles I named are like Cherry, but more curved and the 4th row at an angle of the 5th Cherry row (found on old keyboards).

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 14:00:23 »

As some one already pointed, SP is the DCS manufacturer, that already have all the molds needed for it.

They molds are the most thin and cheap version of DCS. Redesign needs.

Offline ideus

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 14:25:00 »

I think that is more a matter of market demand and marketing strategy than a thing of just want it.

Tai Hao uses molds for the OEM profile, which is a bit taller than DCS. Production of DCS by Tai Hao will require new molds. Its investment is a matter of market demand, which by now is all OEM.

You should propose a GB to the community for a set of DCS shape keycaps manufactured by Tai Hao and quote it if demand is attractive. You will check if the need for such a product is there and if people are willing to pay the price.

DCS profile is similar to the Cherry profile, but with thinner walls. There is evidence that, at some point, there was a thicker version of DCS. Some vintage samples of Wyse keycaps probe it. It is hard to believe that people that like Tai Hao products may be willing to pay premium prices for a set of DCS like keycaps. But you should get your feet wet and try the waters by yourself.

As some one already pointed, SP is the DCS manufacturer, that already have all the molds needed for it.


My idea is to convince the cheap mass market to release DCS caps without a preliminary hype with GB.
DCS and the similar profiles I named are like Cherry, but more curved and the 4th row at an angle of the 5th Cherry row (found on old keyboards).




Good luck.

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 15:19:16 »

As some one already pointed, SP is the DCS manufacturer, that already have all the molds needed for it.

They molds are the most thin and cheap version of DCS. Redesign needs.

Signature Plastics still produces MX & ALPS compatible DCS profile caps. https://pimpmykeyboard.com/all-products/keycaps/?search_query=&page=1&limit=51&sort=bestselling&Profile=DCS&category=33&is_category_page=1

I know, buuut SP's DCS is awful expensive for that quality and thin.

I am in agreeance with you that SP's DCS caps are fairly expensive for what they are, but I do have to point out Tai-Hao's base ABS sets are very much the same just in OEM profile. Plus DCS has been thin for very many years & I believe the thicker DCS caps found on some vintage boards were special orders with the molds having been decommissioned long ago. I do like your ideal & am not trying to discourage you. Although like ideus pointed out, in order for this to happen a whole new set of molds would have to be made, which is super expensive & will drive the cost of the first few sets produced through the roof. Then not only that you'd have to go to Tai-Hao with a very well recieved IC showing there is very high demand for such a product to even get them to start considering investing in your project.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 15:50:23 »
Seriously, why doesn't anyone copy DCS profile? Or something like Topre profile to MX stems.
When people copy Cherry profile, they also copy the thick walls and how they are inside. Some makers have made some improvements on the inside, for compatibility with Costar-style stabilisers and offset stems. (and there have been some mistakes as well)

Signature Plastics' DCS has thin walls and also no struts inside making them incompatible with O-rings (or silencing clips and similar).
They are actually a simplified version of an even older profile from SP's predecessor Comptec that had thicker walls. Those can be found in some vintage WYSE keyboards, but you can't tell which without pulling a key.

Some vintage keyboards from BTC have a very similar profile to DCS, but the sides are textured the same as the top and these do work with O-rings. There might be more vintage keyboards out there with similar keycaps that I have not seen yet.

My favourite Cherry keycap clones are from Leopold. Those have sharper edges and a grippier surface texture than original Cherry without being coarse like EnjoyPBT, as well as support for stepped centre-stemmed Caps Lock.
The only advantage I think DCS/Topre really has over Leopold's is the angle on the ZXCVF row.
However, on the bottom row, people don't often like that sharp angle, so many people rotate the spacebar or even the Alt keys to avoid thumbing on the sharper edge.
I think an angle somewhere in-between that of Cherry and DCS/Topre would be better for the ZXCVF row, with the actual bottom row having a rounded profile such as what the Dell AT101W has.
However, if you have different profiles on the two bottom rows then the profile would be less useful for unusual layouts such as 40% variants and small ergo keyboards with many thumb-keys.

I don't think that anybody really dislikes Cherry's bottom-row profile. It is an acceptable middle ground.

(and anyone who reverses a Cherry-profile Space Bar on a keyboard that doesn't have a negative angle is a moron ...   :rolleyes: )

Tai Hao uses molds for the OEM profile, which is a bit taller than DCS. Production of DCS by Tai Hao will require new molds. Its investment is a matter of market demand, which by now is all OEM.
Indeed. Such keys would not necessarily be cheaper just because they would be made by Tai Hao.
Injection moulds are very expensive wherever you are, and the cost of investing in them would have to be covered by the volume sold and also yield a profit.

Signature Plastics could probably sell keycaps at more competitive prices if the order was very large and not a small customer such as an enthusiast running a group buy in a new colour scheme.
« Last Edit: Sun, 06 September 2020, 15:58:04 by Findecanor »
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Online HungerMechanic

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 16:27:29 »
I'm a big fan of DCS profile, and in fact am typing on it right now.

That being said, I'm not sure that Tai Hao DCS is realistic, or economically-feasable.

The appeal of classic DCS is that the old WYSE DCS really was super-thick. I ran some ancient WYSE terminal keycaps on an MX Brown board, and it totally transformed it. The pitch became much deeper, the wobble decreased, and smoothness increased. They were the best keycaps for worn-in MX Brown.

But nothing like that is being manufactured today. The SP DCS is the later, much thinner variant. It's still ok to type on, but not like the old DCS.

The appeal of DCS is in vintage. I think it would be better and an easier sell to consumers to convince Signature Plastics to bring back thick DCS. SP thick DCS would have the air of authenticity to it, since they are the descendant of Comptec. The high SP prices would actually be justified if they were producing thick DCS. I would pay it, for sure. It's simply a better product.

I doubt Tai Hao will be interested. Their premium ABS line is the Cubic profile. Maybe find out who is producing those "Cherry PBT" sets for Novelkeys, and ask them to produce thick DCS. At least that manufacturer can produce in quantity and at a reasonable price. Maybe EnjoyPBT could be persuaded. It would be more interesting and useful than their existing ABS line.

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 17:52:42 »
The appeal of DCS is in vintage. I think it would be better and an easier sell to consumers to convince Signature Plastics to bring back thick DCS. SP thick DCS would have the air of authenticity to it, since they are the descendant of Comptec. The high SP prices would actually be justified if they were producing thick DCS. I would pay it, for sure. It's simply a better product.

Ok, I wrote to Melissa that thick DCS maybe can repeat the success of GMK))

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 06 September 2020, 19:44:41 »
Tai-hao has blatantly copied designs from our community on several occasions without the slightest consideration.  I don’t think it would go over well with many in the community.

Online HungerMechanic

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 09:51:11 »

Ok, I wrote to Melissa that thick DCS maybe can repeat the success of GMK))

It's good to put the question to SP. Although I'm not really sure thick DCS can repeat the success of GMK.

Cherry is a widespread profile in a way that DCS never was or likely will be. However, I think that thick DCS could be a successful niche. SP would be a credible producer of thick DCS, a profile that is beloved and accepted among enthusiasts.

With SP's shorter lead-times, and the qualities of thick DCS, it's something that would be worth buying. I think the best way to approach SP is with a GB or list of people willing to buy, as the suggestion of one person just doesn't carry weight.

Offline ideus

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 10:11:11 »
No vendor would produce something with no revenues. If SP has the molds for thick caps, a GB is the way to go.

Online HungerMechanic

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 10:36:14 »
I agree, and that's why this is a pipe dream. SP brought back its molds for DSS profile recently, but doesn't seem to have molds for thick DCS lying around. I doubt it would go to the extent of creating new molds.

Offline ideus

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 07 September 2020, 10:45:06 »
|-dream.


My opportunity to use the pipe symbol out of programming.

Offline Mikhail

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 02:50:54 »

Ok, I wrote to Melissa that thick DCS maybe can repeat the success of GMK))

It's good to put the question to SP. Although I'm not really sure thick DCS can repeat the success of GMK.

Cherry is a widespread profile in a way that DCS never was or likely will be. However, I think that thick DCS could be a successful niche. SP would be a credible producer of thick DCS, a profile that is beloved and accepted among enthusiasts.

With SP's shorter lead-times, and the qualities of thick DCS, it's something that would be worth buying. I think the best way to approach SP is with a GB or list of people willing to buy, as the suggestion of one person just doesn't carry weight.

SP says "We have never made thick DCS and at this time don’t have the resources to create thick DCS keys"


Online HungerMechanic

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 09:35:59 »
Oh, that's too bad. Yes, I think only Comptec made the thick DCS.

SP would still be the choice manufacturer if anyone ever chose to make thick DCS again, but I don't think there's effective demand that could cause someone to tool up for it right now.

Offline ideus

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 08 September 2020, 09:44:18 »
Oh, that's too bad. Yes, I think only Comptec made the thick DCS.

SP would still be the choice manufacturer if anyone ever chose to make thick DCS again, but I don't think there's effective demand that could cause someone to tool up for it right now.


Thick DCS may face a crowded market for thick caps, GMK, ePBT and even SA may canibilize the share for such caps. It does not seem that investing in tooling such caps line has any tracking.

Offline typo

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Re: Petition for Tai-Hao to start producing DCS profile keycaps
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 13 September 2020, 20:48:49 »
Wrong company. Tai Hao is about budget.