suggestions for Blue Cherry MX? (Last but not Least)

[Voixdelion]

 I'd really like to just return it or sell it and get something that doesn't feel unstable when I type
.

Say... Um, if one might infer from that perhaps you might be looking to sell a Filco, I may know someone who might be interested in taking if off-, er well, from under your hands....

[stickemup]

Say... Um, if one might infer from that perhaps you might be looking to sell a Filco, I may know someone who might be interested in taking if off-, er well, from under your hands....

Uhm... well, if I infer from Elite Keyboard that a refund is, ah, "not going to happen", I should be able to sell, er - make an arrangement with - you to aid in placing my hands elsewhere.

[majestouch]

Okay, now you've made what appears to be a thinly veiled ad-hominem attack. I wasn't sure if that's what you were up to before, with the condescending remark about people lacking the engineering knowledge to appreciate your design, which is why I tried to point out this is not a personal attack, but that I merely find your key caps to be of inferior quality to original Cherrys.

However, since you've chosen this path... I have to ask, since a number of people consider your keycaps to be cheap in comparsion to Cherry keys, what you would consider a reasonable course of action:

A) do something about it (tell us how it is being addressed in future products)
B) explain why they are cheap (cost of goods manufactured, etc) and offer us some advice of what may be a solution we can work ourselves, or
B) publicly insult the critics to discredit them.

Which strategy will win in the long run, Karl Rove style politics, or Thomas Edison type solutions?

Lastly, as a manufacturer myself, though not in this vertical market, I'd like to say your presence in this topic is probably not a good idea, if this is your idea of customer service. Whereas you can insult me and deride my experience and knowledge to your contentment, I am just some Joe on the internet, with nothing to lose, who is merely voicing a common sentiment regarding your keycaps, which diminish an otherwise excellent product.

How you deal with this, and what you have to say in response, will leave a very lasting impression on those to follow.

Good day, Sir.

I stand by what I've originally said/stated/typed. You seem to be mistaken not only about the technology and the terms surrounding it, but also about my meaning and candor toward you. I made no attempts to be condescending, if you interpreted my words differently, then I recommend rereading them more carefully, perhaps after a good night's sleep. I DID, however, measure out a bit of obvious patronization to remind you of the lack of rapport new members, like yourself, have around here. If this affects you, then it has served it's purpose.

I have no intention of being the guy that spouts RTFM around here, but if you waltz in here using incorrect terminology while talking about Finite Element Analysis being the obvious keycap design path, as if applied mathematics were everyone's bread and butter and Solidworks licenses came free with your OS, then I believe you deserve to be prodded a bit to remind you that this is a group discussion space with a history and a climate.

There are many members here that have spent hundreds of hours researching and cataloging information as a point of reference for all to share, and this effort deserves respect whether you agree with it or not. If you're new and you want participate respectfully, then it's as simple as checking your ego and sensitivities at the door and absorbing a bit of the legacy before you try to fix it.

As for my presence here, I cannot judge, that's up to everyone else, but I don't support segregation nor censorship; if you do, then I recommend finding another forum to spread your good intentions.

[stickemup]

I stand by what I've originally said/stated/typed. You seem to be mistaken not only about the technology and the terms surrounding it, but also about my meaning and candor toward you. I made no attempts to be condescending, if you interpreted my words differently, then I recommend rereading them more carefully, perhaps after a good night's sleep. I DID, however, measure out a bit of obvious patronization to remind you of the lack of rapport new members, like yourself, have around here. If this affects you, then it has served it's purpose.

I have no intention of being the guy that spouts RTFM around here, but if you waltz in here using incorrect terminology while talking about Finite Element Analysis being the obvious keycap design path, as if applied mathematics were everyone's bread and butter and Solidworks licenses came free with your OS, then I believe you deserve to be prodded a bit to remind you that this is a group discussion space with a history and a climate.

There are many members here that have spent hundreds of hours researching and cataloging information as a point of reference for all to share, and this effort deserves respect whether you agree with it or not. If you're new and you want participate respectfully, then it's as simple as checking your ego and sensitivities at the door and absorbing a bit of the legacy before you try to fix it.

As for my presence here, I cannot judge, that's up to everyone else, but I don't support segregation nor censorship; if you do, then I recommend finding another forum to spread your good intentions.

But the thread shows you were the one who was condescending to me for being dissatisfied with the keycaps. I didn't come in here huffed up about engineering keycaps; that was you. I simply said the keys wobble, in a thread I started on that subject. You redirected it here, linking right to the very post where you copped the mightier-than-thou attitude regarding mechanical engineering expertise, or the lack thereof, which ultimately has nothing to do with how pitifully cheap the keys are for such an otherwise nice board.

And all you've done since that point is attempted character assassination.  Whatever works for you, by all means; color it however you like. Who knows, maybe they'll just ban me for pointing this out, but it's gone way over the top.

I'm returning the board. It could've worked out with some key swaps, but you've squashed my motivation to be a consumer of your products. Luckily there are other options.

Thanks for your candor on the subject!

[stickemup]

I stand by what I've originally said/stated/typed. You seem to be mistaken not only about the technology and the terms surrounding it, but also about my meaning and candor toward you. I made no attempts to be condescending, if you interpreted my words differently, then I recommend rereading them more carefully, perhaps after a good night's sleep. I DID, however, measure out a bit of obvious patronization to remind you of the lack of rapport new members, like yourself, have around here. If this affects you, then it has served it's purpose.

I have no intention of being the guy that spouts RTFM around here, but if you waltz in here using incorrect terminology while talking about Finite Element Analysis being the obvious keycap design path, as if applied mathematics were everyone's bread and butter and Solidworks licenses came free with your OS, then I believe you deserve to be prodded a bit to remind you that this is a group discussion space with a history and a climate.

There are many members here that have spent hundreds of hours researching and cataloging information as a point of reference for all to share, and this effort deserves respect whether you agree with it or not. If you're new and you want participate respectfully, then it's as simple as checking your ego and sensitivities at the door and absorbing a bit of the legacy before you try to fix it.

As for my presence here, I cannot judge, that's up to everyone else, but I don't support segregation nor censorship; if you do, then I recommend finding another forum to spread your good intentions.

But the thread shows you were the one who was condescending to me for being dissatisfied with the keycaps. I didn't come in here huffed up about engineering keycaps; that was you. I simply said the keys wobble, in a thread I started on that subject. You redirected it here, linking right to the very post where you copped the mightier-than-thou attitude regarding mechanical engineering expertise, or the lack thereof, which ultimately has nothing to do with how flimsy the keys are for such an otherwise nice board. I am not the first person to point that out, and won't be the last.

But in each subsequent post, all you attempted was character assassination, and discrediting me for not knowing keycap terminology.  Whatever works for you, by all means; color it however you like. Who knows, maybe they'll just ban me for pointing this out, but it's gone way over the top.

I'm returning the board. It could've worked out with some key swaps, but you've squashed my motivation to be a consumer of your products. Luckily there are other options.

Thanks for your candor on this subject, and good day!

[stickemup]

I stand by what I've originally said/stated/typed. You seem to be mistaken not only about the technology and the terms surrounding it, but also about my meaning and candor toward you. I made no attempts to be condescending, if you interpreted my words differently, then I recommend rereading them more carefully, perhaps after a good night's sleep. I DID, however, measure out a bit of obvious patronization to remind you of the lack of rapport new members, like yourself, have around here. If this affects you, then it has served it's purpose.

I have no intention of being the guy that spouts RTFM around here, but if you waltz in here using incorrect terminology while talking about Finite Element Analysis being the obvious keycap design path, as if applied mathematics were everyone's bread and butter and Solidworks licenses came free with your OS, then I believe you deserve to be prodded a bit to remind you that this is a group discussion space with a history and a climate.

There are many members here that have spent hundreds of hours researching and cataloging information as a point of reference for all to share, and this effort deserves respect whether you agree with it or not. If you're new and you want participate respectfully, then it's as simple as checking your ego and sensitivities at the door and absorbing a bit of the legacy before you try to fix it.

As for my presence here, I cannot judge, that's up to everyone else, but I don't support segregation nor censorship; if you do, then I recommend finding another forum to spread your good intentions.

But the thread shows you were the one who was condescending to me for being dissatisfied with the keycaps. I didn't come in here huffed up about engineering keycaps; that was you. I simply said the keys wobble, in a thread I started on that subject. You redirected it here, linking right to the very post where you copped the mightier-than-thou attitude regarding mechanical engineering expertise, or the lack thereof, which ultimately has nothing to do with how flimsy the keys are for such an otherwise nice board. I am not the first person to point that out, and won't be the last.

In each subsequent post, all you have attempted is character assassination, and discrediting me for not knowing keycap terminology.  Whatever works for you, by all means; color it however you like. Who knows, maybe they'll just ban me for pointing this out, but it's gone way over the top.

I'm returning the board. It could've worked out with some key swaps, but you've squashed my motivation to be a consumer of your products. Luckily there are other options.

Thanks for your candor on this subject, and good day!

[majestouch]

But the thread shows you were the one who was condescending to me for being dissatisfied with the keycaps. I didn't come in here huffed up about engineering keycaps; that was you. I simply said the keys wobble, in a thread I started on that subject. You redirected it here (linking right to the very post) where you copped the mightier-than-thou attitude regarding mechanical engineering expertise, which ultimately has nothing to do with how pitifully cheap the keys are for such an otherwise nice board.

And all you've done since that point is character assassination.

Whatever works for you, by all means; color it however you like. Who knows, maybe they'll just ban me for pointing out that you have some pretty bad customer service skills.

It won't matter in the long run. The nature of the marketplace is pulling like a hard vacuum for those who will address the product facets you wish only to obfuscate with ridiculous discussions like this, or at least those who see customer concerns as an opportunity to build service, not dissatisfaction.

I'm returning the board. It could've worked out with some key swaps, but you've cast a sour shadow across it for me, and ultimately there are other options.

You're blowing all of this out of proportion almost as if it is your goal here to make enemies and be sour about something.

All I intended to do was point out the design decisions, the intended results, and to clarify the terminology. You've demonstrated in recent posts that you still don't understand the gist of my commentary because you've either confused the terminology, or haven't tried in the first place. I've given up though, as the topic has been lost on your egomaniacal sensitivities and insecurities.

When you're done with your angry defensive rant, perhaps you can take the time to READ the hundreds of posts on these exact topics that others and myself have had here for the days/months/years you haven't been a member of gh.

I'm no stranger to encountering people's assumptions about my priorities, intentions, and knowledge; so it doesn't surprise me that you've doubly demonstrated why understanding history and legacy are so important before acting by completely misjudging my character as well.

I'm done beating this dead horse.

[Oqsy]

[stickemup]

You're blowing all of this out of proportion almost as if it is your goal here to make enemies and be sour about something.

All I intended to do was point out the design decisions, the intended results, and to clarify the terminology. You've demonstrated in recent posts that you still don't understand the gist of my commentary because you've either confused the terminology, or haven't tried in the first place. I've given up though, as the topic has been lost on your egomaniacal sensitivities and insecurities.

When you're done with your angry defensive rant, perhaps you can take the time to READ the hundreds of posts on these exact topics that others and myself have had here for the days/months/years you haven't been a member of gh.

I'm no stranger to encountering people's assumptions about my priorities, intentions, and knowledge; so it doesn't surprise me that you've doubly demonstrated why understanding history and legacy are so important before acting by completely misjudging my character as well.

I'm done beating this dead horse.

LOL.

I'm not angry at all. I went back and read that statement again, since you suggested that I do.

"Young grasshopper, before you start trying to re-invent the wheel and flexing your mechanical-engineering prowess, I'd recommend you slow down and learn the lingo and the legacy.

No need to apologize for any personal offense, none was taken. Your mention of such offense strikes me as an emotional reflex to the guilt you feel for indulging your ego. I don't mean to embarrass you by pointing this out, it's rather nice to converse with people who have a conscience, as we have some sociopaths around here from time to time."

Gee, it sure sounds like you did the old conversation bait and switch, not me bud; we were discussing keycaps not psychology. I couldn't give a damn about your analysis of my psyche, only your desire to change the subject to one of character analysis and assassination rather than discussion of the issue.

I'm really only here because of the keyboard information and reviews. I shouldn't have to be an expert on any subject in order to appreciate "the fine points of flimsy keycaps". Paint me a slumdog, a pedophile, sociopath, or whatever you wish, it truly isn't important; it only obfuscates the real questions.

So, about those flimco keycaps... do the measurements I took match the specifications you wrote, or did I get a bad batch?

[stickemup]

I'm no stranger to encountering people's assumptions about my priorities, intentions, and knowledge; so it doesn't surprise me that you've doubly demonstrated why understanding history and legacy are so important before acting by completely misjudging my character as well.

I'm done beating this dead horse.

LOL.

I'm not angry at all. I went back and read that statement again, since you suggested that I do. You said:

"Young grasshopper, before you start trying to re-invent the wheel and flexing your mechanical-engineering prowess, I'd recommend you slow down and learn the lingo and the legacy.

No need to apologize for any personal offense, none was taken. Your mention of such offense strikes me as an emotional reflex to the guilt you feel for indulging your ego. I don't mean to embarrass you by pointing this out, it's rather nice to converse with people who have a conscience, as we have some sociopaths around here from time to time." - Majestouch [/b]

Gee, it sure sounds like you did the old conversation bait and switch, not me bud; we were discussing keycaps not psychology. I couldn't give a damn about your analysis of my psyche, only your desire to change the subject to one of character analysis and assassination rather than discussion of the issue.

I'm really only here because of the keyboard information and reviews. I shouldn't have to be an expert on any subject in order to appreciate "the fine points of flimsy keycaps". Paint me a slumdog, a pedophile, sociopath, or whatever you wish, it truly isn't important; it only obfuscates the real questions.

So, about those flimco keycaps... do the measurements I took match the specifications you wrote, or did I get a bad batch?

[stickemup]

I'm no stranger to encountering people's assumptions about my priorities, intentions, and knowledge; so it doesn't surprise me that you've doubly demonstrated why understanding history and legacy are so important before acting by completely misjudging my character as well.

I'm done beating this dead horse.

LOL.

I'm not angry at all. I went back and read that statement again, since you suggested that I do. You said:

"Young grasshopper, before you start trying to re-invent the wheel and flexing your mechanical-engineering prowess, I'd recommend you slow down and learn the lingo and the legacy.

No need to apologize for any personal offense, none was taken. Your mention of such offense strikes me as an emotional reflex to the guilt you feel for indulging your ego. I don't mean to embarrass you by pointing this out, it's rather nice to converse with people who have a conscience, as we have some sociopaths around here from time to time." - Majestouch [/b]

Gee, it sure sounds like you did the old conversation bait and switch, not me bud; we were discussing keycaps not psychology. I couldn't give a damn about your analysis of my psyche, only your desire to change the subject to one of character analysis and assassination rather than discussion of the issue.

I'm really only here because of the keyboard information and reviews. I shouldn't have to be an expert on any subject in order to appreciate "the fine points of flimsy keycaps".

So, ...do are the measurements I took within tolerance of the specifications you wrote, or did I get a bad batch?

[stickemup]

I'm no stranger to encountering people's assumptions about my priorities, intentions, and knowledge; so it doesn't surprise me that you've doubly demonstrated why understanding history and legacy are so important before acting by completely misjudging my character as well.

I'm done beating this dead horse.

LOL.

I'm not angry at all. I went back and read that statement again, since you suggested that I do. You said:

"Young grasshopper, before you start trying to re-invent the wheel and flexing your mechanical-engineering prowess, I'd recommend you slow down and learn the lingo and the legacy.

No need to apologize for any personal offense, none was taken. Your mention of such offense strikes me as an emotional reflex to the guilt you feel for indulging your ego. I don't mean to embarrass you by pointing this out, it's rather nice to converse with people who have a conscience, as we have some sociopaths around here from time to time." - Majestouch [/b]

Gee, it sure sounds like you did the old conversation bait and switch, not me bud; we were discussing keycaps not psychology. I couldn't give a damn about your analysis of my psyche, I'm really only here because of the keyboard information and reviews. I shouldn't have to be an expert on any subject in order to appreciate "the finer points of flimsy keycaps".

So, ...are the measurements I took within tolerance of the specifications you wrote, or did I get a bad batch?

[ahmad]

I tried blue cherries in a dream last night.  Now all my keyboards feel springy

[patrickgeekhack]

Cherry g80-3000 LSCRC-2 (not available anywhere) - this is plate mounted and has a bigger bezel.  This is a sweet keyboard when it is avail
Gemini Computer is out of stock, $66

I was able to get them to custom order one at no extra charge. If the product is still available, they will get one for you.

That said, the G80-3000 is PCB-mounted. If you prefer plate-mounted try a Filco or a Das. There is a difference in feel. I noticed that between my Filco and my MX-11800 both equipped with brown Cherries.

[Voixdelion]

Ordinarily I don't have much to say on the little flame-ups that start as they often burn out quickly, but on this one I'll stick my neck out a teeny bit, just cus there seems to be some genuinely hurt feelings - maybe due to misunderstanding but hurt or put out nonetheless.  We're talking about a post count of 38 to 400+ so:

 I'm going to have to agree with stickem about the tone in the  "grasshopper" post.  I kinda thought it sounded a little snarky, too, both the first time and in review.  If it were directed at me, I might've bristled a little.  

Since it wasn't though, then maybe I am more willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say that sometimes things don't translate into text with the same jovial flavor we intend when we post it.

And in truth, I think maybe the original comment WAS taken a little  personally, judging only by the response.

Both of you are reacting a little bit sensitive so I think its fair to say, no harm meant to each other and it was still a fair exchange of information even if opinions differ.

How about a truce?  Since the info that came out of the entire discussion was actually very helpful to me (the OP)?  No fighting in front of the children?

[stickemup]

Truce be damned,  let fly the dogs of war, and we'll settle this in hell!



I'm fine. The only real question I have for Majestouch is since he jumped in to respond in an official manner, I would appreciate him clarifying his role in the Filco design/manufacturing/distribution scheme.

He presented that he designed the keycaps, so is he the engineer who designed it at Filco?. Is he the manufacturer? Does he own the Filco company?

Or is he just the distributor importer of the keyboard?

I wouldn't ask if some of the statements he made weren't as you put it, a bit snarky, especially the dimestore psychology.

So, eh,  Majestouch? Uhm, hey.. so since you are on the board represting Filco, what's your role there?

[stickemup]

And in truth, I think maybe the original comment WAS taken a little  personally, judging only by the response.

Go read my keyboard thread on the wobbly keys, that response wasn't taken personally - it was in fact aimed squarely and specifically at me - he redirected me there for whatever purposes he had.

I am done with this anyway, since he is the owner of Filco. The board's listed, you can get it on the cheap in the marketplace.

[ch_123]

He presented that he designed the keycaps,

Where?

[stickemup]

Where?

I can't find the specific post now, but it's nonetheless implied by his username and icon coupled with his representation of the engineering behind the board, and statements regarding the high-cost of using FEA software, which all combine very poorly with the statement about sociopaths.

If he's just the guy who sells the board, I'll keep it, ignore him, and move on.

FWIW - solidworks/siemens solid modeling and FEA packages cost about 1,500.00 per year per seat these days - the cost of which is usually paid back in the first development cycle alone. Certainly whoever designed the filco board used such a package - it exudes solid modeling quality. Maybe I just assumed he was actually the engineer who made them, since he addressed my concerns over cheap keys as a lack of understanding the mechanics of key switch technology, as a representative of Filco.

I could model a board of similar quality in about 30 hours of work, complete with a matching PCB, and metal mounting plate, generating full step files for the factory, and gerber diagrams for the PCB printer. I was almost pissed off enough to do so. There is no question that the keys are made poorly. Comparing the dimensions to the specifications on cherry's site for the cuciform registration hole in the key mount shows as much, as does their specification of the key heights to be used with the switches. As is usually the case, operating out of tolerance on any part can significantly shorten its lifespan. Lengthening the key exacerbates the wobble, probably exhibited in lateral-axial torsion on the actuator and switch mechanism.

I really didn't come here for flame wars, to discuss engineering prowess or the lack thereof, and I'm sorry I've spent this much time here.

I came to find a good keyboard replacement, that's all.

[majestouch]

Ordinarily I don't have much to say on the little flame-ups that start as they often burn out quickly, but on this one I'll stick my neck out a teeny bit, just cus there seems to be some genuinely hurt feelings - maybe due to misunderstanding but hurt or put out nonetheless.  We're talking about a post count of 38 to 400+ so:

 I'm going to have to agree with stickem about the tone in the  "grasshopper" post.  I kinda thought it sounded a little snarky, too, both the first time and in review.  If it were directed at me, I might've bristled a little.  

Since it wasn't though, then maybe I am more willing to give the benefit of the doubt and say that sometimes things don't translate into text with the same jovial flavor we intend when we post it.

And in truth, I think maybe the original comment WAS taken a little  personally, judging only by the response.

Both of you are reacting a little bit sensitive so I think its fair to say, no harm meant to each other and it was still a fair exchange of information even if opinions differ.

How about a truce?  Since the info that came out of the entire discussion was actually very helpful to me (the OP)?  No fighting in front of the children?

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community. I think this behavior is selfish and is deserving of prodding only because the alternative of ignoring it, imho, allows it to fester; possibly marginalizing a healthy community over time.

Voix, you've claimed to be a female here in the forum; and I'm not trying to win your favor through use of personal relation/sympathy, but on the web in particular, I'm sure you're quite aware of how hard it is to find technical communities that are not dominated by male-misogenistic-asberger-esque behaviour. This community, however, through either the brain power or maturity of its members manages to quell those raging hormones, and remains surprisingly inviting despite little to no moderation. Quite honestly, that's good for my business, and I'm not shy about saying it.

I know stickemup referred to my tactics ad hominem, and on the surface I might agree, but in context my intention was, what I thought, an obvious guise for social feedback. In retrospect it might have been better to scrap the guise and just say "hey you're being a pompous ass, nobody knows what you're talking about, cool your heals and go read the wiki, come back when your ready to have a conversation with someone other than yourself." But I have doubts that it would have been received any better.

Of course I'm open to anyone's insight on how to better handle such a situation and get the outcome I want without a struggle. In an ideal situation I would have a finite number of people to argue with, and they could be handled in a non-public hand-holding fashion, but here we have an unlimited number of folks rolling through the door everyday, and I'm afraid sometimes someone needs to made into an example for the sake of time and sanity. So I can't always be a scholar and a gentleman (can anyone?).

[patrickgeekhack]

Why so serious?

That's the problem of written communication. Without the body language and voice tone, things can easily get out of hand, and from there the situation can feed upon itself and create a viscious cycle.

[stickemup]

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community. I think this behavior is selfish and is deserving of prodding only because the alternative of ignoring it, imho, allows it to fester; possibly marginalizing a healthy community over time.

Blab blab blab; what a bunch of political nonsense..

YOU STARTED THE MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION IN RESPONSE TO ME SAYING THE KEYS FELT WOBBLY.

Then you freaked when you realized you were talking down to somebody actually is not only an engineer, but a manufacturer.

At which point you switched tactics to character assassination.

So keep on spinning it up. Anybody can go read me thread, which wasn't talking down to anybody at all, just complaining about the wobbly keycaps that ultimately do not meet the specifications of the manufacturer datasheet.

Anything else you have to say other than addressing that fact is just BS.

[stickemup]

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community. I think this behavior is selfish and is deserving of prodding only because the alternative of ignoring it, imho, allows it to fester; possibly marginalizing a healthy community over time.

Blab blab blab; what a bunch of political nonsense and maneuvering.

YOU STARTED THE MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION IN RESPONSE TO ME SAYING THE KEYS FELT WOBBLY, IN THIS THREAD HERE.

You posted in that thread redirected me to this thread, where you specifically stated that my belief the keys were wobbly was ignorance of the mechanics. ROTFLOL.  Then you freaked when you realized you were talking down to somebody actually is not only an engineer, but a manufacturer, at least in his late fifties, who knew how mundane questions like yours regarding switch actuation are answered by current tools any professional engineer would have at his fingertips.

At which point you switched tactics to character assassination.

So keep on spinning it up. Anybody can go read me thread, which wasn't talking down to anybody at all, just complaining about the wobbly keycaps that ultimately do not meet the specifications of the manufacturer datasheet.

Anything else you have to say other than addressing that fact is just BS.

Spend your time working with Filco to get better keycaps; nobody needs or cares for more leather wrist rests.

[stickemup]

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community. I think this behavior is selfish and is deserving of prodding only because the alternative of ignoring it, imho, allows it to fester; possibly marginalizing a healthy community over time.

Blab blab blab; what a bunch of political nonsense and maneuvering.

YOU STARTED THE MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION IN RESPONSE TO ME SAYING THE KEYS FELT WOBBLY, IN THIS THREAD HERE.

You posted in that thread redirected me to this thread, where you specifically stated that my belief the keys were wobbly was ignorance of the mechanics. ROTFLOL.  Then you freaked when you realized you were talking down to somebody who probably was no only an engineer, but also a manufacturer, with knowledge about how such mundane questions should be answered. At which point you switched tactics to character assassination.

Anything else you have to say other than addressing the issue of wobbly keys that are not within spec to cherry switches' published specifications is just more flak.

[stickemup]

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community. I think this behavior is selfish and is deserving of prodding only because the alternative of ignoring it, imho, allows it to fester; possibly marginalizing a healthy community over time.

Blab blab blab; what a bunch of political nonsense and maneuvering.

YOU STARTED THE MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION IN RESPONSE TO ME SAYING THE KEYS FELT WOBBLY, IN THIS THREAD HERE.

You posted in that thread redirected me to this thread, where you specifically stated that my belief the keys were wobbly was ignorance of the mechanics. ROTFLOL.  Then you freaked when you realized you were talking down to somebody who probably is an engineer and a manufacturer, with knowledge about how such mundane questions should be answered in practice. At which point you switched tactics to character assassination.

Anything else you have to say other than addressing the issue of the wobbly keys (that are not within spec to cherry switches' published specifications), in a straightforward, honest, and forthcoming manner, is just more flak.

[hyperlinked]

Stickemup and Majestouch, right now both of you look like *******s. I went through and re-read this thread and the escalation points were so minor it just looks like both of you were having really ****ty days at the same time and were ready to throttle the next person who crossed in front of you. It happens. I can look at my post history here and see a lot of messages in which I can honestly say I was being a total ******* for no reason.

I guess that's life. Time to move on. When it gets to "you said... I said... he said..." it's time to take it private or just drop it.

[stickemup]

Just keep rereading his statement I quoted above, and go back to where I was only saying my switches wobble... and he began a lecture on switch mechanics for those of us with an inferior understanding, to which he directed me to, dismissing my concerns.

I've gotta say majestouch, you're just digging the hole deeper and deeper. You are the one who changed the nature of the conversation to one of professional engineering, not me. The threads show a pretty accurate history of what happened, so how about you chill with the spin-doctoring?

All I said is my switches wobble, they feel cheap and flimsy, and that I was trying to find replacements.  You redirected me to this thread, to the post where you began lecturing me about my inferior grasp of mechanical engineering, as you put it.

Your presentation of these facts can't be helping your sales much.

[stickemup]

Stickemup and Majestouch, right now both of you look like *******s. I went through and re-read this thread and the escalation points were so minor it just looks like both of you were having really ****ty days at the same time and were ready to throttle the next person who crossed in front of you. It happens. I can look at my post history here and see a lot of messages in which I can honestly say I was being a total ******* for no reason.

I guess that's life. Time to move on. When it gets to "you said... I said... he said..." it's time to take it private or just drop it.

So my question to you is whether or not my thread on Filco keycap wobble was out of line. That's where this started, and where he responded and redirected from.

If it was, then I apologize to all here, and it will not happen again.

Thanks.

EDIT - Here's the thread that started the lecture

[hyperlinked]

So my question to you is whether or not my thread on Filco keycap wobble was out of line.

I'm not answering this. This sideshow has jumped the shark.

EDIT: That's a snarky comment from me now... so that's not fair. Let me say this then...

I think Majestouch may have read too much into your comments and he seemed to be the first to go off the rails. I don't know for sure. I didn't have the time to pick through every message to analyze how someone might have gotten offended. Regardless of who started the stink-o-rama, it doesn't matter anymore because it's devolved into two guys who need to be right at the other's expense and the purpose to the discussion has been bled out of it by all the chest bumping. I had to go through a few pages of dense comments to realize that "Stick has a point... Majestouch has a point...," but most people aren't going to bother. They just see the last page of comments and see two *******s being *******s.

[Oqsy]

there's also an asshat around here somewhere too... Kish, you awake?

[stickemup]

Regardless of who started the stink-o-rama, it doesn't matter anymore because it's devolved into two guys who need to be right at the other's expense and the purpose to the discussion has been bled out of it by all the chest bumping. I have to go through a few pages of dense comments to realize that "Stick has a point... Majestouch has a point...," but most people aren't going to bother. They just see the last page of comments and see two *******s being *******s.

You are correct, that's a fair enough assessment of how it looks, so as for me it's over. I'm putting down my axes, sledgehammer, railgun, slide ruler, fowler calipers, ...you get the idea. Sometimes these things (covering face in shame with pocket protector)... kinda happen?

(clearing throat)

You have my apologies for assuming the aforementioned presumptuousness was with specificity and not generality, and hence forth I will never rally again to that type of railing.

It's over, I am done with it, you have my word.

....

Wait stop! Small miracle... (examines keyboard) are the keys.. now happy and harmonious to the universe, stopping their wobble?

[stickemup]

Regardless of who started the stink-o-rama, it doesn't matter anymore because it's devolved into two guys who need to be right at the other's expense and the purpose to the discussion has been bled out of it by all the chest bumping. I have to go through a few pages of dense comments to realize that "Stick has a point... Majestouch has a point...," but most people aren't going to bother. They just see the last page of comments and see two *******s being *******s.

You are correct, that's a fair enough assessment of how it looks, so as for me it's over. I'm putting down my axes, sledgehammer, railgun, slide ruler, fowler calipers, ...you get the idea. Sometimes these things (covering face in shame with pocket protector)... kinda happen?

(clearing throat)

You have my apologies for assuming the aforementioned presumptuousness was with specificity and not generality, and hence forth I will never again rally to that type of railing.

It's over, I am done with it, you have my word.

....

Wait stop! Small miracle... (examines keyboard) are the keys.. now happy and harmonious to the universe, stopping their wobble?

[Voixdelion]

Go read my keyboard thread on the wobbly keys, that response wasn't taken personally - it was in fact aimed squarely and specifically at me - he redirected me there for whatever purposes he had.

 

No -idiot! :laugh:
I meant your comment appeared to be taken a little personally by him... ergo snarky response, see?

[Oqsy]

Voix, you've claimed to be a female here in the forum; and I'm not trying to win your favor through use of personal relation/sympathy, but on the web in particular, I'm sure you're quite aware of how hard it is to find technical communities that are not dominated by male-misogenistic-asberger-esque behaviour. This community, however, through either the brain power or maturity of its members manages to quell those raging hormones, and remains surprisingly inviting despite little to no moderation.

Some of us anyway...  Advice dog, however, is a pig.

[Voixdelion]

Yes, Voix, you are, but you're in very good company here
Just a small technical point before someone jumps in and corrects you with attitude... Yes, technically you are correct that the stems will be longer if you mean the distance from the bottom of the key switch stem to the surface of the key cap, or the "functional stem".  However some will probably nitpick the wording of "longer stem" as implying that the stem of the switch itself is longer, which of course is false.  Myself and 99% of those here know exactly which way you mean it, but sometimes it's the little stuff that can start misunderstandings and/or flame wars

case in point above :tea:

[Rusty Rat]

Yep, out of context it does sound snarky, but in context I wouldn't change it or apologize for it. stickemup exhibited a classic case of failing to sense the temperature of the environment or all together ignoring it so that he/she could exhibit specialized knowledge (Finite Element Analysis? Fowler micrometers?), which surely he/she couldn't expect more than 1 in 100,000 people to have the slightest idea about. It's pompous ego showboating and it makes the conversation inaccessible to the community.

1 in 100,000 - what a pompous load of twaddle! Sometimes there are some crazy posts on this site but overall there are some very cluey and educated people on here judging from their posts. Instead of insulting members of this site why don’t you direct your misplaced response to Filco to do something about their keycaps?

[Voixdelion]

You know, it may just be something in the air this weekend.  Friday was a PITA for me dealing with a douche on ebay, my bf got all 'tude-y for no reason yesterday and took it out on his mx revolution mouse by hucking it at the wall, and I just had a row with my Mom tonight because she just felt like being a twat today.

Seen a few flares on other boards that ignited out of nothing too.  Strange.

[J888www]

Anyone have a favorite board with this switch they'd recommend?

This One

[ch_123]

there's also an asshat around here somewhere too... Kish, you awake?

He's on holidays.

[Oqsy]

Ah good for him.  I'm jealous.  I hope he sends me a postcard

[junkfist]

Didn't feel like this was worth starting a new thread about.

I'm thinking about either the $60 Adesso (linked on the front page) or Scorpius M10. I'm good with a soldering iron so I'm not too worried about repairs. I want a full size keyboard, does anybody have experience with the Adesso board (or hopefully both)?

I assume it can't be too much different, though. I can't even stand using my desktop PC's crappy rubber keyboard anymore (posting from my ThinkPad - which I love).

[hyperlinked]

Didn't feel like this was worth starting a new thread about.

No please, start a new thread. I think it's time to bury this thread. A bunch of people were having bad days together in this thread. There's no need to keep it going.

[gr1m]

Little *****es get out

we don't want to skinny *****es

big booty *****es ooooooo

big booty *****es big big booty *****es ooooooo

[stickemup]

I have no horse in the race, so nothing to lose... but for the sake of the guy who has a small business of great interest to this community, in an already recession minded economy, I wish you could clean it up by whacking down the thread - and not just leave this around for negative-posterity compounded by search engines.

The material that would be lost holds nothing of merit for your fine community.

[wellington1869]

Stickemup and Majestouch, right now both of you look like *******s.

well said, tho i'll just point out here that one of those is a VENDOR, and one is a customer.

There's one question about Filco keyboards, and there's another about vendors and our experiences with them. Leave the thread up, because part of what GH has always done, and prides itself on doing, and does extensively, is provide useful insight and information about vendors as well as products.

Yup, everyone has their opinions based on their tastes and their experiences, and thats mine.

[Voixdelion]

I have no horse in the race, so nothing to lose... but for the sake of the guy who has a small business of great interest to this community, in an already recession minded economy, I wish you could clean it up by whacking down the thread - and not just leave this around for negative-posterity compounded by search engines.

The material that would be lost holds nothing of merit for your fine community.

While I agree in part, I think Webwit has offered an object lesson in the consequences of threadwashing.  Though this would be after the fact, I think most of us here are adult enough to take everything with a grain of salt.  Besides, as I said, there was some useful information that came from the exchange as a whole, which might significantly impact decisions as it did mine.  If everything has simmered down now I'm just glad the weekend's over, as it was a bit taxing on the social front in general...

Back to the point though:

Yes, any more info on the adesso as was asked?  Regrettably the available Filco is lacking the 10-key which I need, so I'm leaning towards the adesso and the full size filco as my choices right now, and would like to be sure I really want to spend twice as much if I go with the Filco...

[Voixdelion]

Hmm...if someone is willing to buy the keyboard and ship the computer minus keyboard from you to me, I'd find that to be a beneficial situation.

Ideally they'd only take the guts of the keyboard, leaving the shell because the shell is the most important part (allowing other keyboards to be ghetto-rigged into it so they can attach to the computer).

Intriguing idea - any ideas on what said guts could be placed into as an  alternative?

and also brings to mind the other phone cord crimping discussion... (PM pending that btw)

[ch_123]

I could not, for the life of me, find a single RJ11 socket without a wall attachment.

I might make a PS/2 to RJ11 cable, then use a coupler.

[patrickgeekhack]

For a cheap alternative to these consider the used Laser Keyboard, switches feel almost exactly like cherry blues, double shot keys, big enter but big backspace:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vtg-Laser-clicky-keyboard-PS2-5pin-/370410565917?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item563e30b11d#ht_500wt_947
http://cgi.ebay.com/Clicky-Keyboard-LASER-SX-25-Mechanical-Switches-/120517351156?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item1c0f64d6f4#ht_2596wt_930

These Laser keyboards have PS/2 connectors?

[didjamatic]

I could not, for the life of me, find a single RJ11 socket without a wall attachment.

I might make a PS/2 to RJ11 cable, then use a coupler.

An RJ45 jack should work fine, just use the middle pair(s) as needed.