Author Topic: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS  (Read 42051 times)

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 22:07:46 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one  :(

Trust me, while I feel the complete opposite, you are not alone. A few individuals are always making fun of how obsessed I am with Thick PBT :)

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 05:23:50 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one  :(

Trust me, while I feel the complete opposite, you are not alone. A few individuals are always making fun of how obsessed I am with Thick PBT :)

Yes, you are not alone in this. While I do like PBT ( I have not tried "thick" PBT) my preference for it is not as strong as that of some people here. When I first started using it, I actually wondered if I should sell the keycaps and get something in double shot ABS instead. After using it for a longer period, the feel has grown on me, and I quite like it. It does feel different, and the difference is subtle. I don't think it feels objectively superior though. Just different. Which one you like most is probably dependent on personal preference. After using it for a while, I have to say that I would go with PBT over ABS.
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Offline L4yercake

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 17:56:24 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.



And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 20:09:37 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.

Show Image


And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Give yourself to the Dark Side...Let the PBT flow through you.

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 22:16:50 »
LOL nice a very interesting choice of combined keycaps.  But thanks for the feedbacks so now I know I'm not alone  :P

Still waiting on Cherry Double Shot before I make my final verdict.  Though it sounds like I should also give PBT another shot lol.

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Offline L4yercake

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 05:20:42 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.

Show Image


And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Give yourself to the Dark Side...Let the PBT flow through you.

I would love too I really would! But PBT has two major flaws going against it. First the judder(even a word?) from depressing the key-caps and secondly the manufacturing tolerences on the stems seem to be lower then the ABS counter-parts and it fits kinda loosely on the stem.

Offline ideus

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 06:20:49 »
I prefer thick abs caps, and should recognized that even I like their feel when they have ran out of texture, because they feel so terse, like silk.

Offline DEAD_BEEF

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 18:19:01 »
Thick PBT eh? What are the keycaps on the Topre, thick or thin?

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 21:46:32 »
I'm guessing it's thin OEM profile PBT.

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Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 23:07:13 »
I'm guessing it's thin OEM profile PBT.

What's the point of discussing OEM/Cherry profile of Topre keycaps? It is not meant for mechanical keyboard anyway. No offence man.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 08:36:34 »
Jocelyn, mind telling me more about the difference between thin and thick pbt?

I am typing on a pBT now and it feels nicer than ABS. but I know my PBT isn't as thick and solid looking as the PBT on old typewriters. But since it has been 20 years since I last used a traditional typewriter, I just can't remember the difference.

Is it really worth me spending so much for 'thick PBT dyesubs'?

Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

Gotta wait for these :)

Show Image



Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.


Show Image

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 16:33:05 »
Jocelyn, mind telling me more about the difference between thin and thick pbt?

I am typing on a pBT now and it feels nicer than ABS. but I know my PBT isn't as thick and solid looking as the PBT on old typewriters. But since it has been 20 years since I last used a traditional typewriter, I just can't remember the difference.

Is it really worth me spending so much for 'thick PBT dyesubs'?

I obviously can't speak for Ducky's Thick OEM profile PBT, as they have yet to be released in sets, but I do prefer Thick Cherry profile PBT over Thin OEM profile PBT.
It's all really subjective tbh, but I prefer the weight of Thick PBT over Thin PBT. It's probably minimal, but it definitely makes my Ergo-Clears feel ever so slightly lighter. I also prefer the feel of Thick over Thin, but more importantly, Thick caps are quieter than Thin imo. This is all coming from a light typist who typically doesn't bottom out, but the noise difference is even more apparent if you do bottom out.

My advice would be to buy one or two Thick PBT caps (Zelda Heart or whatever) via TechKeys or the classifieds and compare it to your thin PBT. The 8-bit Heart Keys were the first Thick PBT caps I owned, and they were what got me hooked and led to me buying a full set.

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:13:58 »
Sorry to revive this old thread but I've finally got the Cherry double shot Olivetti from Sherryton.

BUT !!!!!!!!!!!  To my surprise I actually don't really like it that much.  Like somehow the Cherry height doesn't fit will with Costar stabilizers, like it will grind itself when trying to bottom out and then it feels mushy.  Though the weird thing is somehow the imsto Cherry replica set actually doesn't grind too much, even though it's suppose to be a replica (in theory identical shape to the Cherry set).

Another thing is that the scooped F key and J key throw me off.  I find I like "flatter" surface, the scoop feels weird and I much prefer the dash.

BUTTTT !!!!!  Surprise no. 2 is that somehow this made me appreciate the imsto thick PBT set much better.  Like you can tell that the imsto set is made with more modern tooling and overall it's actually much more refined.  The key feel smoother and the spacebar is the straightest I've seen of any keycap sets.  The Cherry set actually has a lot of minor imperfections from the 2 shot process and uneven thickness around the side walls.  I'll try to take comparison pictures later.

The weird thing is that I thought I didn't like PBT but I guess the imsto set is slowly growing on me.  Maybe I'll give the Ducky set a try when it comes out.  Because so far I still stand correct that I prefer OEM height better than Cherry height.

Anyway just want to share my two cents  :P

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:25:04 »
Thanks for sharing Hyde! You know I already agree lol, but I'd still like to hear your future thoughts on Thick OEM PBT :)

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:28:51 »
An interesting viewpoint.

I find I prefer flat vs. scooped, mainly because of my chaotic typing style I sometimes hit the keys with different fingers, and scoops throw me off.
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Offline czarek

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 07:38:55 »
Cherry, cherry, why no one mentioned IBM/Unicomp? I actually love their keys and prefer over any Filco, Cherry or Topre.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:16:25 »
Cherry, cherry, why no one mentioned IBM/Unicomp? I actually love their keys and prefer over any Filco, Cherry or Topre.

Of course. But buckling spring users live in a pocket universe that is separate from everything else.

I think that the sheer mass of the keys (caps + stems) (they must weigh what, twice as much as other "thick" ones?) is a big help, too.
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Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:23:56 »
Just goes to show how much preferences can differ.

I like PBT, but was not as instantly in love with it as a lot of people. I thought I would enjoy Cherry profile because of all the good things I heard about it, but when I got to try, I did not like it over standard height caps. Though it felt fine I guess.
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Offline Goodfella

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 09:01:17 »
My latest set of PBT, an IMSTO thick two tone set should be in my hands tomorrow! I am really excited to try out thick pbt for the first time, and on my new brown switch keyboard. Lot's of new stuff!
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Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 22:35:56 »
Just goes to show how much preferences can differ.

lol I know, damn it now I'll be forced to try all types of keycaps once  :P

As for PBT I find I initially didn't like it, but now it's slowly growing on me and I don't mind it.  I'll see if my opinion will change later on lol.

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:45:54 »
I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

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Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:55:32 »
Now, if only there was doubleshot PBT that was backlight-friendly ...
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Offline Photekq

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:00:39 »
Now, if only there was doubleshot PBT that was backlight-friendly ...
Doubleshot PBT with Cherry moulds..

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:02:26 »
You laughing or nodding?

What about yellow PBT doubleshots that are backlight friendly?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Photekq

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:18:24 »
You laughing or nodding?

What about yellow PBT doubleshots that are backlight friendly?
Nodding, of course. PBT caps w/ Cherry moulds would be a dream come true.

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 01:34:01 »
PBT with Cherry legends all over the place now.

With transparent legends - nope :(
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:54:56 »
Which tends to be heavier.  Thick pbt or abs?
SmallFry! <3

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:57:41 »
Which tends to be heavier.  Thick pbt or abs?

Imsto PBT: 1.3g
Cherry doubleshot - 1.2g

Source - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35565.msg666086#msg666086

Offline TheQsanity

  • Posts: 1165
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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 03:06:52 »
Nice close and similar. Now I wonder about how to get heavier,  zinc?

Either way both chaos are better than sp/oem. .

Oh the day we get a batch of heavier caos..

Great seaeching ability or memory btw.
SmallFry! <3

Offline Rendom

  • Posts: 362
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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 04:33:39 »
Thick dyesub PBT. Thank you!
QFR - MX Blue

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 17 May 2013, 23:05:44 »
Great seaeching ability or memory btw.

Haha Thank You! I used both to find that :)

Offline j2c8w6f8

  • Posts: 114
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 10:51:58 »
prefer sp doublesot with blue or green switches!

Offline typo

  • Posts: 1662
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #82 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 14:37:20 »
tg3 makes double shot dye sub backlit capable keys. they take custom orders. I am guessing just one set would be too expensive though. at first I thought the mold looks ugly but I think they are alright now. I suppose one way is to find a keyboard on ebay and harvest the keys. per my other post, they are spherical if that matters.

Offline Masterchief79

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  • Location: Germany
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 07:12:47 »
Personally, I prefer Cherry Doubleshots over Cherry Dyesubs. Yes, they wear out after a few years and become pretty shiny and thing, but I they are much thicker and just feel more comfortable in my opinion. And the quality of the label is just so perfect. Cherry Dyesubs are thin though, so I would have to try thick PBT Subs to make a final decision.
Doesn't matter in the end, we are all enthusiasts, I am pretty sure after 1 or 2 months of keyboard obsession you have both at home anyway. :D
Taiwanese Fake-Model F with MX black copies (1984) | Apple Keyboard (salmon Alps 1987) | G80-1000HDD vintage blacks (1987) | G80-1000HFD vintage blues | G80-1800HFD | QPad MK50 browns | AEK II

Offline 宋伊雪

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 22:50:43 »
thick PBT i think

Offline nopunchespulled

  • Posts: 25
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:15:36 »
sorry to bump an old thread, but do double shot last longer than dye sub as far as wear on what "printed" on the keys?

Offline ideus

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:35:42 »
sorry to bump an old thread, but do double shot last longer than dye sub as far as wear on what "printed" on the keys?


Going by pure physics, I'd say that both keycap's legend types may outlast you easily under regular typing. ABS double-shot legends are plastic inside a plastic, and you should cut them with a knife to get the legends exposed; even then, you should grind them in a mill to convert them into pellets. I do not see even the heaviest typist degrading them by just typing on them. Dye-sub gets deep inside the PBT surface, and PBT is less prone to wear-off than ABS; therefore, it would be challenging for someone to wear off enough PBT material on the cap's surface to erase the legends. Just check old boards around, and I have seen no OG double shot or dye-sub with worn off legends after years of use.







« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:47:35 by ideus »

Offline nopunchespulled

  • Posts: 25
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 16:13:30 »
Thanks, I wanst sure if dye subbed was kind of like a screen printing process and could be worn off.  Looks like either way unless I am sandpapering my keys I should be fine