Author Topic: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS  (Read 41505 times)

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Offline terran5992

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DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:05:32 »
Im looking to uprade from my laser etched keyset.
Which one should i get?

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Offline Sifo

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:06:22 »
PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:06:42 »
Thick dye-sub PBT from Imsto :)

PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots

I'd still choose thin PBT over anything ABS.

Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:13:33 »
Thick PBT Dyesubs


Offline Sifo

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:15:17 »
Thick dye-sub PBT from Imsto :)

PBT! But only if it's thick. otherwise go doubleshots

I'd still choose thin PBT over anything ABS.

Thin PBT is nasty. I only type on imsto thick blanks, so no ABS here.
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Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:23:40 »
Whats the difference between thick and thin pbt?

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:34:24 »
Thick is thicker, has cherry profile (lower), is denser and some say it feels better to type on.

Thick is on the right.

« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:39:10 by Jocelyn »

Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:37:56 »
Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me. :(

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:40:45 »
Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is  :p

Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:41:05 »
Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me. :(

Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.



Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:45:57 »
Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is  :p

Its black on white , I sold it off already :(

Anyways this has really caught my eye.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4996320547.44.SpjLXP&id=17218012075&

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:48:11 »
Those are from Imsto and here's his entire stock of Dyesub PBT - http://aikb.taobao.com/search.htm?spm=a1z10.1.w7574905737.20.vosvCh&scid=269483495&scname=yMjJ%2FbuqIER5ZXN1Yg%3D%3D&checkedRange=true&queryType=cat

Send him a PM including what you want and he'll send you an invoice.

Feng also has the set you linked and you could probably get the slightly cheaper than his Ebay price via GH - http://www.ebay.com/itm/KBC-Blue-Dyesub-Thick-PBT-Cherry-MX-Key-Caps-105-keys-included-/330758846871?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item4d02c37997

Just send him a PM :)

Those are Imsto's cherry height, thick PBT, dyesubs. They're almost identical to the ones on my keyboard I posted earlier in the thread. They're worth every dollar.

All of this. I'm really hoping Sherry lists them soon as I really want a set with Hangul.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:51:06 by Jocelyn »

Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:49:57 »
Yes, for some people it really doesn't matter. Let me know if you want to sell that thick PBT set from Feng and what color it is  :p

Its black on white , I sold it off already :(

Anyways this has really caught my eye.
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.3.w4996320547.44.SpjLXP&id=17218012075&

Those are Imsto's cherry height, thick PBT, dyesubs. They're almost identical to the ones on my keyboard I posted earlier in the thread. They're worth every dollar.

Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:51:15 »
Oh i thought that those were thick pbt with oem height D:

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Offline calavera

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 20:55:10 »
Thickness is really just preference. Dye subs are superior to double shots but this also boils down to preference. I do like the crisp fonts on double shots. Dye subs are awesome though.

Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:08:56 »
Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:09:43 »
Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

Gotta wait for these :)




Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.


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Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:12:02 »
Wow those look amazing , is that just the keycaps or the keyboard included?

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Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:32:38 »
Wow those look amazing , is that just the keycaps or the keyboard included?

I am unsure. On one hand, they're not shown separately which would indicate a no to your question. But, on the other hand, they already do sell keycap sets, so I can see them doing that with these as well.

Maybe someone who can read Mandarin could enlighten us :)

Offline Lastpilot

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:40:44 »
Leopold sells their FC700R with thick PBT.


http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1334728174

Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:50:12 »
Leopold sells their FC700R with thick PBT.

What a tease! I would do almost anything for a set of their blank grey/graphite and I was hoping your post would contain some kind of new info lol.
I've been told that they're not as thick as Imsto's set, but are heavier due to the type of PBT being denser than standard PBT. Their profile height is in between cherry profile and OEM profile. Also, the spacebar will not work with most keyboards, so you'd need something else for that.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 21:52:13 by Jocelyn »

Offline inteli722

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:00:52 »
Does that spacebar have the same stem spacing as the FC200R? looks like it does...

if so...then I would very much like to have that set.
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Offline Lastpilot

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:12:35 »
Actually according to this http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33104.0 the spacebar will not fit an FC200R. I really thought they were the same too.

Edit: Also on the leopold website, the Poker X has a PBT edition too. No pictures of how thick they are though.
« Last Edit: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:15:23 by Lastpilot »

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:12:43 »
It's actually the same as the fc500r, even more incompatible

Offline DavinDidIt

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:13:23 »
I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

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Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:19:26 »
I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.438608786206837.93809.241720585895659&type=1

I can only imagine doubleshot PBT would be even better than regular PBT. Would doubleshot PBT be more durable than dyesub PBT? Hrmm...

Offline DavinDidIt

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 22:23:53 »
I can only imagine doubleshot PBT would be even better than regular PBT. Would doubleshot PBT be more durable than dyesub PBT? Hrmm...

I would definitely think so.  The amount of double-shot plastic that makes up the legends on doubleshot PBT keys is thicker than the few microns that the ink can penetrate into the plastic on Dyesubbed PBT
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Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 23:09:40 »
Well i only hope that the double shot pbt come in oem profile.

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Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 23 February 2013, 23:27:16 »
Well i only hope that the double shot pbt come in oem profile.

They most certainly will if they're made by Signature Plastics. They're attempting to make PBT doubleshots affordable, so as of now, they only have the arrow keys set.

Offline Jmneuv

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 05:52:53 »
SP isn't doing OEM profile though.

Do the thick PBT caps have enough clearance inside the cap for the switch?
It's relatively tight with 1x cherry doubleshots - oem has more clearance but some are very thick so i' wondering.

Offline sherryton

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 17:02:09 »
These are ABS Double Shot, and they are in Cherry profile.  Made from the Original Cherry Toolings.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40253.0

A lot of people who tried these WILL not switch back to any other keysets unless they are Cherry ABS double shot or Cherry PBT Dye Sublimation.

Offline terran5992

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 19:23:15 »
I've tried cherry profile and in my honest opinion I really hated it :(

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Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 24 February 2013, 19:50:49 »
Mmmmmm so soon we gonna have OEM Thick PBT?  I wonder how it will compare to Cherry Profile Thick PBT.

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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #34 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 20:11:52 »
FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC

Offline OnTheBrink

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #35 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 20:43:27 »
FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC

This was said before I believe. Nevertheless, getting an FC700R in U.S. will cost $200+ minimum. And GMarket doesn't have any blank or English black caps and no gray caps at all.

If you get someone to proxy for you from AU, which I did get somewhere here willing, you can buy one from PC Case Gear. It will still be $200+ minimum with AU to US shipping.

Nevertheless, $200 isn't that bad if you are sold on that keyboard. I think it has one of the nicest cases on the market and the grey/graphite case color is second to none. Also, after reading some reviews, it has even less imperfections than a Filco (perfect case cuts around the arrows. Something not seen on some Filcos, including mine).

I would have gone with it if there weren't complications swapping out keys. Maybe I will get it when it is more available. Given Ducky has stepped up their quality and all their exciting releases, including keys, coming soon--I went with a Ducky Shine 2.

Hope this helps.
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #36 on: Tue, 26 February 2013, 20:54:05 »
FC700R comes with OEM thick PBT IIRC


They're actually slightly less thick than Imsto's, but slightly heavier due to Leopold using a denser PBT material. Their profile height is also somewhere between cherry and oem profile - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40605.msg806839#msg806839

My info comes from WFD.

This was said before I believe. Nevertheless, getting an FC700R in U.S. will cost $200+ minimum. And GMarket doesn't have any blank or English black caps and no gray caps at all.

If you get someone to proxy for you from AU, which I did get somewhere here willing, you can buy one from PC Case Gear. It will still be $200+ minimum with AU to US shipping.

Nevertheless, $200 isn't that bad if you are sold on that keyboard. I think it has one of the nicest cases on the market and the grey/graphite case color is second to none. Also, after reading some reviews, it has even less imperfections than a Filco (perfect case cuts around the arrows. Something not seen on some Filcos, including mine).

I would have gone with it if there weren't complications swapping out keys. Maybe I will get it when it is more available. Given Ducky has stepped up their quality and all their exciting releases, including keys, coming soon--I went with a Ducky Shine 2.

Hope this helps.

I wish someone would buy one in grey and sell me the caps :)
« Last Edit: Tue, 26 February 2013, 21:01:22 by Jocelyn »

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 20 March 2013, 00:08:56 »
Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.  That or maybe I'm not used to cherry profile yet.

I suspect I like the softer feeling of ABS better.  PBT feel a little bit unforgiving.  I wonder if I should try to find myself some thick double shot ABS from old cherry keyboards.

Though to be fair it's only been 2 days since I got the imsto set so I might give it some more time and see  :)

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Offline L4yercake

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 20 March 2013, 01:53:10 »
I've been using imstos for a couple months now and the other day I got some Cherry DS and I think I like the DS more. They feel like a better fit on the stems and they feel almost more solid then the PBT.

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 20 March 2013, 22:23:11 »
Where did you get your Cherry DS?  I suspect I'll like ABS better because it's softer and absorb vibration better.  And I have to say imsto's keycap is kinda loose on the stems.  So you could be right that the Cherry caps might fit better.

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Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 21 March 2013, 00:18:59 »
Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.

Well, that explains why you feel they're overhyped. You prefer the feel of ABS, even stock ABS, over PBT... Those, like myself, swear by PBT because we like how smooth/soft PBT feels. PBT also develops shine much slower and is more resistant to chemicals and heat.

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 21 March 2013, 21:09:03 »
I thought PBT are harder than ABS.  It's more brittle compare to ABS which is more flexible.  Though I have to say even for ABS, black keycaps feels more solid than white keycaps.  I wonder if it's the same for PBT (Since I got light grey).

Now if only they'll come out with OEM profile thick ABS keycaps lol.

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Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 24 March 2013, 23:56:56 »
Here some update on my impression over the imsto thick PBT keycaps.  While I realize most on geekhack seems to prefer cherry profile and PBT keycaps, but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

After a few days I realize:

1)  I still prefer OEM profile over Cherry profile.
2)  I still find ABS "softer" compares to PBT.  Which felt a little bit too harsh for my taste.  ABS absorb shock a little bit better also sounds a bit deeper.
3)  However I do agree "thick" do help make things feel better especially more noticeable on the larger keys, but less noticeable on the 1x1 keys.

So it sounds like I'm the minority here that actually prefer OEM profile ABS which is what most stock keyboards come with.  Though I'll have to say in a perfect world I'd probably want a OEM profile thick ABS double shot keycaps.

At the moment such keycaps does not exist so the 2nd closest choice I have at this point is either thin ABS or thick cherry double shots.  Maybe once Sherryton comes back I'll try to see if I can get my hands on the cherry double shots and see how it goes  :D
« Last Edit: Mon, 25 March 2013, 22:00:12 by Hyde »

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 00:13:01 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Offline Krogenar

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 08:29:49 »
Thickness is really just preference. Dye subs are superior to double shots but this also boils down to preference. I do like the crisp fonts on double shots. Dye subs are awesome though.

I would imagine that double-shots would be superior (in terms of resisting wear to the legends) than dye-sub, seeing as how the legend goes all the way to the stem, and dyesub only goes partially down into the keycap. But both have to be better than pad printing.
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Offline swagpiratex

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DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 10:00:35 »
Lol, this is why we told you we feel sorry for your wallet when you sign up.
 There's no way we can tell you or know what you would like. You're gonna have to get both and find out yourself.

Offline rarar

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 10:02:24 »
Personally i really hate cherry profile, and i have bought a set of thick pbt from feng during his group buy, really not much difference for me. :(

Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.


Show Image

Saw that on reddit a while ago. SO MUCH WANT. Replace the keycap in the middle of your .gif and put the blue set of keycaps there. THAT IS HOW I FEEL
Ỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫̜͉̠̫͕̭̭̫̫̹̗̹͈̼̠̖͍͚̥͈̮̼͕̠̤̯̻̥̬̗̼̳̤̳̬̪̹͚̞̼̠͕̼̠̦͚̫͔̯̹͉͉̘͎͕̼̣̝͙̱̟̹̩̟̳̦̭͉̮̖̭̣̣̞̙̗̜̺̭̻̥͚͙̝̦̲̱͉͖͉̰̦͎̫̣̼͎͍̠̮͓̹̹͉̤̰̗̙͕͇͔̱͕̭͈̳̗̭͔̘̖̺̮̜̠͖̘͓̳͕̟̠̱̫̤͓͔̘̰̲͙͍͇̙͎̣̼̗̖͙̯͉̠̟͈͍͕̪͓̝̩̦̖̹̼̠̘̮͚̟͉̺̜͍͓̯̳̱̻͕̣̳͉̻̭̭̱͍̪̩̭̺͕̺̼̥̪͖̦̟͎̻̰_Ỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫̜͉̠̫͕̭̭̫̫̹̗̹͈̼̠̖͍͚̥͈̮̼͕̠̤̯̻̥̬̗̼̳̤̳̬̪̹͚̞̼̠͕̼̠̦͚̫͔̯̹͉͉̘͎͕̼̣̝͙̱̟̹̩̟̳̦̭͉̮̖̭̣̣̞̙̗̜̺̭̻̥͚͙̝̦̲̱͉͖͉̰̦͎̫̣̼͎͍̠̮͓̹̹͉̤̰̗̙͕͇͔̱͕̭͈̳̗̭͔̘̖̺̮̜̠͖̘͓̳͕̟̠̱̫̤͓͔̘̰̲͙͍͇̙͎̣̼̗̖͙̯͉̠̟͈͍͕̪͓̝̩̦̖̹̼̠̘̮͚̟͉̺̜͍͓̯̳̱̻͕̣̳͉̻̭̭̱͍̪̩̭̺͕̺̼̥̪͖̦̟͎̻̰ ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็_ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็

Offline rarar

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 10:03:40 »
Just got my hands on the imsto PBT, while it's good but I find it a bit over hyped.  Doesn't feel like a huge upgrade over stock ABS.

Well, that explains why you feel they're overhyped. You prefer the feel of ABS, even stock ABS, over PBT... Those, like myself, swear by PBT because we like how smooth/soft PBT feels. PBT also develops shine much slower and is more resistant to chemicals and heat.
I went straight from crappy quality Razer blackwidow ultimate keycaps, to HHKB blank PBT caps, and OMG I FRICKIN LOVE PBT <3
Ỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫̜͉̠̫͕̭̭̫̫̹̗̹͈̼̠̖͍͚̥͈̮̼͕̠̤̯̻̥̬̗̼̳̤̳̬̪̹͚̞̼̠͕̼̠̦͚̫͔̯̹͉͉̘͎͕̼̣̝͙̱̟̹̩̟̳̦̭͉̮̖̭̣̣̞̙̗̜̺̭̻̥͚͙̝̦̲̱͉͖͉̰̦͎̫̣̼͎͍̠̮͓̹̹͉̤̰̗̙͕͇͔̱͕̭͈̳̗̭͔̘̖̺̮̜̠͖̘͓̳͕̟̠̱̫̤͓͔̘̰̲͙͍͇̙͎̣̼̗̖͙̯͉̠̟͈͍͕̪͓̝̩̦̖̹̼̠̘̮͚̟͉̺̜͍͓̯̳̱̻͕̣̳͉̻̭̭̱͍̪̩̭̺͕̺̼̥̪͖̦̟͎̻̰_Ỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫̜͉̠̫͕̭̭̫̫̹̗̹͈̼̠̖͍͚̥͈̮̼͕̠̤̯̻̥̬̗̼̳̤̳̬̪̹͚̞̼̠͕̼̠̦͚̫͔̯̹͉͉̘͎͕̼̣̝͙̱̟̹̩̟̳̦̭͉̮̖̭̣̣̞̙̗̜̺̭̻̥͚͙̝̦̲̱͉͖͉̰̦͎̫̣̼͎͍̠̮͓̹̹͉̤̰̗̙͕͇͔̱͕̭͈̳̗̭͔̘̖̺̮̜̠͖̘͓̳͕̟̠̱̫̤͓͔̘̰̲͙͍͇̙͎̣̼̗̖͙̯͉̠̟͈͍͕̪͓̝̩̦̖̹̼̠̘̮͚̟͉̺̜͍͓̯̳̱̻͕̣̳͉̻̭̭̱͍̪̩̭̺͕̺̼̥̪͖̦̟͎̻̰ ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็_ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็

Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 16:18:30 »
IMHO, go for double shot if you want good-looking keycaps, DyeSub PBT if you want something that feel nice to type on.
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Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 22:02:37 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one  :(

Lol, this is why we told you we feel sorry for your wallet when you sign up.
 There's no way we can tell you or know what you would like. You're gonna have to get both and find out yourself.

LOLLLL it was youuuuuuuu, you introduced me to the group buy and now my wallet hates me lol jk.

Though you were the one that told me about the IvanIvanovich (formerly Lysol) group buy.  But I thank you for it because like you said there's no way to know until I actually try it  :)

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 25 March 2013, 22:07:46 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one  :(

Trust me, while I feel the complete opposite, you are not alone. A few individuals are always making fun of how obsessed I am with Thick PBT :)

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #51 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 05:23:50 »
but I realize like mx switches is still all comes down to preference.

This^ and Thanks for sharing your opinion. I think it's wonderful that we all have different responses to subjective sensations (qualia).

Haha thanks I'm trying to find if I'm the only one that prefer ABS over PBT.  So far it does sounds like I'm the only one  :(

Trust me, while I feel the complete opposite, you are not alone. A few individuals are always making fun of how obsessed I am with Thick PBT :)

Yes, you are not alone in this. While I do like PBT ( I have not tried "thick" PBT) my preference for it is not as strong as that of some people here. When I first started using it, I actually wondered if I should sell the keycaps and get something in double shot ABS instead. After using it for a longer period, the feel has grown on me, and I quite like it. It does feel different, and the difference is subtle. I don't think it feels objectively superior though. Just different. Which one you like most is probably dependent on personal preference. After using it for a while, I have to say that I would go with PBT over ABS.
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Offline L4yercake

  • Posts: 188
Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #52 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 17:56:24 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.



And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Offline keymaster

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #53 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 20:09:37 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.

Show Image


And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Give yourself to the Dark Side...Let the PBT flow through you.

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #54 on: Tue, 26 March 2013, 22:16:50 »
LOL nice a very interesting choice of combined keycaps.  But thanks for the feedbacks so now I know I'm not alone  :P

Still waiting on Cherry Double Shot before I make my final verdict.  Though it sounds like I should also give PBT another shot lol.

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Offline L4yercake

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #55 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 05:20:42 »
I honestly can't decide between the two this is what my kbd looks like right now as I try out thick ABS.

Show Image


And I am quite literally 50/50 with thick ABS/PBT right now. ABS absorbs the shock of bottoming out much better and feels soft to use. PBT feels smoother to the skin. Actually now that I'm thinking about it I may just move PBT too movement keys and keep everything else ABS. We'll see!

Give yourself to the Dark Side...Let the PBT flow through you.

I would love too I really would! But PBT has two major flaws going against it. First the judder(even a word?) from depressing the key-caps and secondly the manufacturing tolerences on the stems seem to be lower then the ABS counter-parts and it fits kinda loosely on the stem.

Offline ideus

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #56 on: Wed, 27 March 2013, 06:20:49 »
I prefer thick abs caps, and should recognized that even I like their feel when they have ran out of texture, because they feel so terse, like silk.

Offline DEAD_BEEF

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 18:19:01 »
Thick PBT eh? What are the keycaps on the Topre, thick or thin?

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 21:46:32 »
I'm guessing it's thin OEM profile PBT.

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Offline yicaoyimu

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #59 on: Wed, 03 April 2013, 23:07:13 »
I'm guessing it's thin OEM profile PBT.

What's the point of discussing OEM/Cherry profile of Topre keycaps? It is not meant for mechanical keyboard anyway. No offence man.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 08:36:34 »
Jocelyn, mind telling me more about the difference between thin and thick pbt?

I am typing on a pBT now and it feels nicer than ABS. but I know my PBT isn't as thick and solid looking as the PBT on old typewriters. But since it has been 20 years since I last used a traditional typewriter, I just can't remember the difference.

Is it really worth me spending so much for 'thick PBT dyesubs'?

Hmm Just wondering if thick pbt with OEM profile exist?

Gotta wait for these :)

Show Image



Ducky will be coming out with dye-sublimated PBT (thick) keycaps with OEM profile. All the information is available on the Ducky Facebook Page.


Show Image

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 04 April 2013, 16:33:05 »
Jocelyn, mind telling me more about the difference between thin and thick pbt?

I am typing on a pBT now and it feels nicer than ABS. but I know my PBT isn't as thick and solid looking as the PBT on old typewriters. But since it has been 20 years since I last used a traditional typewriter, I just can't remember the difference.

Is it really worth me spending so much for 'thick PBT dyesubs'?

I obviously can't speak for Ducky's Thick OEM profile PBT, as they have yet to be released in sets, but I do prefer Thick Cherry profile PBT over Thin OEM profile PBT.
It's all really subjective tbh, but I prefer the weight of Thick PBT over Thin PBT. It's probably minimal, but it definitely makes my Ergo-Clears feel ever so slightly lighter. I also prefer the feel of Thick over Thin, but more importantly, Thick caps are quieter than Thin imo. This is all coming from a light typist who typically doesn't bottom out, but the noise difference is even more apparent if you do bottom out.

My advice would be to buy one or two Thick PBT caps (Zelda Heart or whatever) via TechKeys or the classifieds and compare it to your thin PBT. The 8-bit Heart Keys were the first Thick PBT caps I owned, and they were what got me hooked and led to me buying a full set.

Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:13:58 »
Sorry to revive this old thread but I've finally got the Cherry double shot Olivetti from Sherryton.

BUT !!!!!!!!!!!  To my surprise I actually don't really like it that much.  Like somehow the Cherry height doesn't fit will with Costar stabilizers, like it will grind itself when trying to bottom out and then it feels mushy.  Though the weird thing is somehow the imsto Cherry replica set actually doesn't grind too much, even though it's suppose to be a replica (in theory identical shape to the Cherry set).

Another thing is that the scooped F key and J key throw me off.  I find I like "flatter" surface, the scoop feels weird and I much prefer the dash.

BUTTTT !!!!!  Surprise no. 2 is that somehow this made me appreciate the imsto thick PBT set much better.  Like you can tell that the imsto set is made with more modern tooling and overall it's actually much more refined.  The key feel smoother and the spacebar is the straightest I've seen of any keycap sets.  The Cherry set actually has a lot of minor imperfections from the 2 shot process and uneven thickness around the side walls.  I'll try to take comparison pictures later.

The weird thing is that I thought I didn't like PBT but I guess the imsto set is slowly growing on me.  Maybe I'll give the Ducky set a try when it comes out.  Because so far I still stand correct that I prefer OEM height better than Cherry height.

Anyway just want to share my two cents  :P

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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:25:04 »
Thanks for sharing Hyde! You know I already agree lol, but I'd still like to hear your future thoughts on Thick OEM PBT :)

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 13 May 2013, 23:28:51 »
An interesting viewpoint.

I find I prefer flat vs. scooped, mainly because of my chaotic typing style I sometimes hit the keys with different fingers, and scoops throw me off.
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Offline czarek

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #65 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 07:38:55 »
Cherry, cherry, why no one mentioned IBM/Unicomp? I actually love their keys and prefer over any Filco, Cherry or Topre.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:16:25 »
Cherry, cherry, why no one mentioned IBM/Unicomp? I actually love their keys and prefer over any Filco, Cherry or Topre.

Of course. But buckling spring users live in a pocket universe that is separate from everything else.

I think that the sheer mass of the keys (caps + stems) (they must weigh what, twice as much as other "thick" ones?) is a big help, too.
Definition - An Insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants). An insurgency can be fought and may also be opposed by measures to protect the population and by political and economic actions of various kinds, as well as propaganda aimed at undermining the insurgents' claims against the incumbent regime. As a concept, insurgency's nature is ambiguous. Not all rebellions are insurgencies. There have been many cases of non-violent rebellions using civil resistance. When insurgency is used to describe a movement's unlawfulness by virtue of not being authorized by or in accordance with the law of the land, its use is neutral. However, when it is used by a state or another authority under threat, "insurgency" often also carries an implication that the rebels' cause is illegitimate, whereas those rising up will see the authority of the state as being illegitimate.
Sometimes there may be one or more simultaneous (“multipolar”) insurgencies occurring in a country. The Iraq insurgency is one example of a recognized government versus multiple groups of insurgents. Multipolarity extends the definition of insurgency to situations where there is no recognized authority, and with changing alliances.

Offline Grim Fandango

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 08:23:56 »
Just goes to show how much preferences can differ.

I like PBT, but was not as instantly in love with it as a lot of people. I thought I would enjoy Cherry profile because of all the good things I heard about it, but when I got to try, I did not like it over standard height caps. Though it felt fine I guess.
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Offline Goodfella

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #68 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 09:01:17 »
My latest set of PBT, an IMSTO thick two tone set should be in my hands tomorrow! I am really excited to try out thick pbt for the first time, and on my new brown switch keyboard. Lot's of new stuff!
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Offline Hyde

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 14 May 2013, 22:35:56 »
Just goes to show how much preferences can differ.

lol I know, damn it now I'll be forced to try all types of keycaps once  :P

As for PBT I find I initially didn't like it, but now it's slowly growing on me and I don't mind it.  I'll see if my opinion will change later on lol.

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #70 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:45:54 »
I would choose dyesubbed PBT over ABS (doubleshot or otherwise) 100% of the time.  To make things even more confusing, Doubleshot PBT keycaps are on the way in the near future too!  If it wasn't for the horrible font, these would be ideal!

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.438608786206837.93809.241720585895659&type=1

I wonder what the latest on the release date is.  Those photos are from 3 months ago.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #71 on: Wed, 15 May 2013, 23:55:32 »
Now, if only there was doubleshot PBT that was backlight-friendly ...
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Photekq

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #72 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:00:39 »
Now, if only there was doubleshot PBT that was backlight-friendly ...
Doubleshot PBT with Cherry moulds..

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #73 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:02:26 »
You laughing or nodding?

What about yellow PBT doubleshots that are backlight friendly?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline Photekq

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #74 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 00:18:24 »
You laughing or nodding?

What about yellow PBT doubleshots that are backlight friendly?
Nodding, of course. PBT caps w/ Cherry moulds would be a dream come true.

Offline rowdy

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #75 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 01:34:01 »
PBT with Cherry legends all over the place now.

With transparent legends - nope :(
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline TheQsanity

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #76 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:54:56 »
Which tends to be heavier.  Thick pbt or abs?
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #77 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 02:57:41 »
Which tends to be heavier.  Thick pbt or abs?

Imsto PBT: 1.3g
Cherry doubleshot - 1.2g

Source - http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=35565.msg666086#msg666086

Offline TheQsanity

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 03:06:52 »
Nice close and similar. Now I wonder about how to get heavier,  zinc?

Either way both chaos are better than sp/oem. .

Oh the day we get a batch of heavier caos..

Great seaeching ability or memory btw.
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Offline Rendom

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 16 May 2013, 04:33:39 »
Thick dyesub PBT. Thank you!
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Offline Jocelyn

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 17 May 2013, 23:05:44 »
Great seaeching ability or memory btw.

Haha Thank You! I used both to find that :)

Offline j2c8w6f8

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #81 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 10:51:58 »
prefer sp doublesot with blue or green switches!

Offline typo

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #82 on: Sat, 25 May 2013, 14:37:20 »
tg3 makes double shot dye sub backlit capable keys. they take custom orders. I am guessing just one set would be too expensive though. at first I thought the mold looks ugly but I think they are alright now. I suppose one way is to find a keyboard on ebay and harvest the keys. per my other post, they are spherical if that matters.

Offline Masterchief79

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 27 May 2013, 07:12:47 »
Personally, I prefer Cherry Doubleshots over Cherry Dyesubs. Yes, they wear out after a few years and become pretty shiny and thing, but I they are much thicker and just feel more comfortable in my opinion. And the quality of the label is just so perfect. Cherry Dyesubs are thin though, so I would have to try thick PBT Subs to make a final decision.
Doesn't matter in the end, we are all enthusiasts, I am pretty sure after 1 or 2 months of keyboard obsession you have both at home anyway. :D
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Offline 宋伊雪

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 28 May 2013, 22:50:43 »
thick PBT i think

Offline nopunchespulled

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:15:36 »
sorry to bump an old thread, but do double shot last longer than dye sub as far as wear on what "printed" on the keys?

Offline ideus

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:35:42 »
sorry to bump an old thread, but do double shot last longer than dye sub as far as wear on what "printed" on the keys?


Going by pure physics, I'd say that both keycap's legend types may outlast you easily under regular typing. ABS double-shot legends are plastic inside a plastic, and you should cut them with a knife to get the legends exposed; even then, you should grind them in a mill to convert them into pellets. I do not see even the heaviest typist degrading them by just typing on them. Dye-sub gets deep inside the PBT surface, and PBT is less prone to wear-off than ABS; therefore, it would be challenging for someone to wear off enough PBT material on the cap's surface to erase the legends. Just check old boards around, and I have seen no OG double shot or dye-sub with worn off legends after years of use.







« Last Edit: Tue, 15 December 2020, 23:47:35 by ideus »

Offline nopunchespulled

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Re: DyeSub PBT VS DoubleShot ABS
« Reply #87 on: Wed, 16 December 2020, 16:13:30 »
Thanks, I wanst sure if dye subbed was kind of like a screen printing process and could be worn off.  Looks like either way unless I am sandpapering my keys I should be fine