Author Topic: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?  (Read 1377 times)

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Offline Learis

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Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 14:27:30 »
I have avoided getting the cherry profile because of the issue of interference. Interestingly, I've read that the old original cherry keycaps with thin walls don't have this interference problem. But as of now, all current cherry keycaps I've seen being sold have thick walls, even cheaper brands on Amazon brag about their thick walls, so I worry about interference.

Then I read about the DCS profile which is very similar to cherry, but one difference is it has thin walls, and some have suggested that it won't have interference. Can anyone confirm this? I'm looking on Drop at the DCS Sleeper keycap set, and I'd like to know this for sure before I commit 120 bucks to get it.

Edit: crossed out incorrect information. Don't trust everything you read hehe.

Final Update: DCS is confirmed as being safe from switch interference!
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 December 2020, 17:15:29 by Learis »
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Offline ideus

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 15:09:39 »
I have never heard about such thing as thin OG Cherry keycaps. I have five ancient OG sets, and they are the same as GMK's. It has been stated that GMK bought the original Cherry molds. Many GMK's sets have likely been produced with those original molds, if not all. I have read about the interference issue, but I have never experienced it, given that I am a Cherry user. I wonder under which conditions that issue happens. DCS keycaps are very cheap compared with GMK's. I would not use it by any means.

Offline Learis

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 15:43:29 »
I have never heard about such thing as thin OG Cherry keycaps. I have five ancient OG sets, and they are the same as GMK's. It has been stated that GMK bought the original Cherry molds. Many GMK's sets have likely been produced with those original molds, if not all. I have read about the interference issue, but I have never experienced it, given that I am a Cherry user. I wonder under which conditions that issue happens. DCS keycaps are very cheap compared with GMK's. I would not use it by any means.

Interesting. A person in a reddit conversation told me they took these supposed "thin cherry" keycaps out of an "old thermaltake poseidon keyboard." I don't know much at all about old keyboards and for all I know they mistook those keycaps for cherry when they weren't. Edit: upon googling it looks like poseidon keyboards are just a gaming keyboard and this was most likely oem keycaps that they mistook for cherry (probably because the keyboard was bragging it had cherry switches). I'll update my OP.

As far as interference goes, there's much testimony along with video proof to show that it exists. Does that mean it exists on every keyboard and switch? No, but it definitely exists especially for keyboards with north facing switches. I don't mind having keycaps considered cheap. What I'd like though is to try out a new profile to see how well its ergonomics are, so I don't mind if DCS is considered cheap to Cherry. I'd still like to try it out since their profiles are very similar, as long as it's confirmed to not have switch intereference.

Here's a youtube video demonstrating interference, and I set it at the part where it plainly shows it. There's plenty more videos demonstrating it and the main culprit is having north facing switches. Since mine are north facing, I'd rather not take my chances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfOBo-g4BTQ&t=175s
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 December 2020, 16:10:04 by Learis »
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 16:48:38 »
All original Cherry keycaps in Cherry-profile made out of double-shot moulded ABS are thick-walled.

Cherry has made (and is still making) keyboards with keycaps in Cherry-profile in PBT with laser-etched legends that are thin-walled, but with the notable exception of the stabilised keys which are still thick-walled.
Interference with backwards-facing MX switches is really an issue only for the shallowest row: the home row ... which on a standard keyboard will have a horizontally stabilised Enter key only if the layout is ANSI.
So, yes, on an ISO keyboard with backwards-facing switches you would not get interference if you use these original Cherry-profile keycaps.
But these laser-etched PBT keys are some kind of beige and/or grey, look kind'a cheap and are not very much desirable anyway unless your priority is to get the layout for a specific country/language. Plus, there may be other compatibility problems such as with the non-centered stem on the Caps Lock and Space Bar keycaps.

Cherry did also make all thick-walled PBT keycaps for a period in the '90s: some with laser-etched letters and some (more desirable) with dye-sublimated legends. All of those are winkeyless (Edit: Apparently wrong), but not all winkeyless vintage Cherry keyboards have thick-walled keycaps.

Beware though that Cherry PBT keys in Cherry profile also exists on Cherry keyboards with MY switches or rubber domes. Non-stabilised keys on MY keyboards will fit Cherry MX and may be thin-walled ... but the stems on 1.25 modifier keys are not in the centre. The rubber dome keyboards have completely different stems.

Now, I'm also assuming that you are not planning on using QMX clips, in which case only standard switch orientation and thick-walled Cherry/GMK keycaps work. (I think even EnjoyPBT has interference with these)

Edit: The ThermalTake Poseidon does definitely not have Cherry-made, or even Cherry-profile keycaps. The person must have referred to them fitting Cherry switches.
That said, Cherry has been an OEM for other brands in the past, but ... that was the past, with older keyboard models.
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 December 2020, 08:12:05 by Findecanor »
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Offline ideus

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 17:41:46 »
I always use keyboards with their switches in standard position—the switch contacts are at the top, along with the two contact pins— and never experience any interference with thick D.S. Cherry/GMK keycaps. The ANSI enter key carries Cherry PCB stabilizers, and it did not have any interference, either. I hope that this may add some direct experience to your quest. Also, wait for someone with the issue to share his/her experience. Back to DCS, what I meant by cheap, is that a DCS set will cost the same as a GMK made one, but you get lower quality keycaps. Of course, if you are that concerned about the interference issue, that would be a way to assure you will not have any.

Offline Learis

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 18:30:06 »
It seems I can quite cheaply figure this out for myself since Signature Plastics who currently makes the DCS profile allows you to buy individual keys. I can buy an individual home row key and test it out to see or not. If I don't get a definitive answer from this forum or elsewhere I've asked then I'll just do this experiment on my own. Shouldn't be too much of a hassle. Although they may be of "cheaper" quality than cherry's because of thin walls, if I can have the peace of mind of no inteference then I'll accept that. And quite frankly if they're made by Signature Plastics then I except the quality to be good in all other regards.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 18:40:57 »
For switches mounted the right way there is no interference with DCS.
For switches mounted backwards, I don't think there is interference. I don't use DCS but I have some loose that I could test for you before you go and spend some money. Let me get back to you tomorrow.
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Offline ideus

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 19:24:35 »
For switches mounted the right way there is no interference with DCS.
For switches mounted backwards, I don't think there is interference. I don't use DCS but I have some loose that I could test for you before you go and spend some money. Let me get back to you tomorrow.


Good idea: I also have a DCS enter cap that I can try on. I´ll report it back later, today.

Offline ideus

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 25 December 2020, 19:40:51 »

These are the two enter keys, one is an OG Cherry double shot, and the other is a DCS double shot—the red. I mounted the two backward to simulate an inverted switch, and there was no interference with both. The stabs are standard Cherry PCB mounted ones, as you can see in the pictures. There is no interference when installed in the right position, either. I hope this helps.












Offline Findecanor

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 26 December 2020, 12:02:49 »
On a keyboard I have with DCS keycaps I rotated a couple of keys on every row and did not notice any less wiggle room when rocking these back and forth compared to other keys — which I would have noticed with thick-walled Cherry profile oriented that way.

Verdict: DCS profile does avoid interference with switches oriented "upside-down".
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Offline Learis

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 26 December 2020, 13:00:19 »
Thank you both for your tests. Seems like DCS is a safe bet. There's one set in pre-order on Drop and two other sets on pimpmykeyboard.com, so I have a whopping 3 sets to choose from lol. Thanks again for testing things!

Edit: I also heard back from tha man Mito in a Drop discussion confirming these keycaps don't have interference. It's a Christmas miracle!
« Last Edit: Sun, 27 December 2020, 12:06:26 by Learis »
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Offline cheater

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 27 December 2020, 12:50:09 »
good news is if you get a beamer you won't have that problem at all

Offline jorj_mk

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 28 December 2020, 04:24:47 »
Cherry did also make all thick-walled PBT keycaps for a period in the '90s: some with laser-etched letters and some (more desirable) with dye-sublimated legends. All of those are winkeyless, but not all winkeyless vintage Cherry keyboards have thick-walled keycaps.
This is incorrect, I have a set of thick lasered Cherry PBT from a G80-3000LPMDE, which has standard 6.25u bottom row. Though it is correct that there were no dye-sublimated 6.25u sets.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 28 December 2020, 08:13:25 »
I have a set of thick lasered Cherry PBT from a G80-3000LPMDE, which has standard 6.25u bottom row.
Oh, nice! And were the 1.25u modifiers also thick?
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Offline jorj_mk

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Re: Does DCS Profile Avoid Switch Interference?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 28 December 2020, 15:20:54 »
I have a set of thick lasered Cherry PBT from a G80-3000LPMDE, which has standard 6.25u bottom row.
Oh, nice! And were the 1.25u modifiers also thick?
Yes they were! Centre stem too as they were from a G80.
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