Author Topic: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!  (Read 2306 times)

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Offline bas72

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Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« on: Sun, 28 February 2021, 10:59:53 »
Happy to be here. I have all this cash piling up, I'm glad to have found a hobby that'll take care of that issue fast and effectively.  :D

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 11:05:19 »
Hi bas72. Welcome to Geekhack.

I hope the problem of cash piles is a joke. If not, you've certainly found a solution.

Offline bas72

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 15:08:05 »
Well... mostly, yes. But I'm also a firm believer in spending your money before you die. Not all at once, not wasting it, but still: there's no use in dying rich. I work behind a keyboard all day, that may as well be a fun experience!

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 02 March 2021, 15:21:23 »
Well... mostly, yes. But I'm also a firm believer in spending your money before you die. Not all at once, not wasting it, but still: there's no use in dying rich. I work behind a keyboard all day, that may as well be a fun experience!

Indeed. I feel the same way. I'm not sure how I used cheap dome boards for so many years before I even knew what mechanicals were. It seems to me almost like when Neo follows the white rabbit in the Matrix.

Have an interest in any particular type of switch yet between linear, tactile and clicky?

Offline bas72

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 12:15:39 »
Well... I don't really know my options yet. I'm using Cherry MX Blues at the moment, which types really nice but is also a bit noisy. I have to admit I'm drawn by the sound of really quiet keyboards... I may even lube my switches some day! But first: a nice looking, good quality keyboard. I pre-ordered an Ikki68, but I'm keeping my eyes open... Did you see that Leaf65?

What is your typing instrument of choice?


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Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 03 March 2021, 13:01:35 »
Well... I don't really know my options yet. I'm using Cherry MX Blues at the moment, which types really nice but is also a bit noisy. I have to admit I'm drawn by the sound of really quiet keyboards... I may even lube my switches some day! But first: a nice looking, good quality keyboard. I pre-ordered an Ikki68, but I'm keeping my eyes open... Did you see that Leaf65?

What is your typing instrument of choice?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I used MX blues and MX reds in Corsair K70s for years and years before I tried IBM's capacitive buckling spring boards ... which finally made me look at what else was out there to explore. I can't stand MX blue anymore myself, I compare it to typing on plastic grocery bags. It isn't something you would ever notice you dislike until you try more refined and consistent clicky switches though. Looking back, it still surprises me that I was happy with them for so many years. You'll also find that low-pitched clickies (these are few and far between, most are high-pitched like MX clickies) like Alps SKCM and box jades or pinks, may be more amenable to your ears and those of the people around you.

I hadn't seen either of those boards until you mentioned them. They both look like great boards. I personally love the ruggedness of polycarbonate as a material. It is very underrated. I usually stick to vintage boards, or doing stupid/pointless modifications of OEM boards for kicks and giggles myself.

I couldn't chose a single board I like the most. I use multiple iterations of IBM's Model F boards, multiple ye olde Alps boards, modern Matias boards (these use simplified Alps clones), various other interesting vintage switches and boards, and various MX compatible boards that I have Frankensteined with mostly box clicky switches like jades and navies. My favorite switches (that I have tried) are beam spring, capacitive buckling spring, and Alps SKCM blue. There are so many great clickies to enjoy though.

Offline bas72

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 03:31:46 »
 :D I can imagine you have moved on from MX Blues in the meantime, but still: coming from a standard Logitech board, in terms of typing experience, this is already such an improvement! The tactility feels wonderful and much more responsive. But this is just the start: I am excited to find out what is available and possible in typing experience.

To friends, who think I am slightly weird in spending so much money on a keyboard, I have likened it to playing a musical instrument. A great instrument will play better, make a more pleasant sound to your ears, and make your overall experience more fun. But, as with musical instruments, one does not buy a stradivarius as first instrument: the journey itself is too much fun to skip all the intermediate steps.

As for the boards you mention: I must admit that most of the brands you mention do not even remotely ring a bell...  ;D But that is the noob's prerogative! I will definitely look into the switches you mention - all for the ultimate typing experience. I hope to end up at the board that makes me jump out of bed every morning because I can type on it again!

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 09:48:48 »
:D I can imagine you have moved on from MX Blues in the meantime, but still: coming from a standard Logitech board, in terms of typing experience, this is already such an improvement! The tactility feels wonderful and much more responsive. But this is just the start: I am excited to find out what is available and possible in typing experience.

You did well to use a Logitech keyboard. They make great products, especially wireless peripherals, even if they're membrane. Indeed. have you ordered any switch testers? I think this one is a good value. It doesn't have absolutely everything you may want to try, but it is a start. If you wanted to focus on clickies, the box switches in that tester should be an interesting comparison for you against MX. Matias switches you may need to buy in a sample pack and they won't fit in that tester, unfortunately. Their tactiles and linears are dampened and I would choose those over anything else I have tried if I wanted a quiet board, personally. Topre is a contender as well. Unfortunately, Topre switches are not self contained, so you may need to find a board to try for those (the same goes for buckling spring). Everything is a give and take though. You won't get the crisp/refined tactility of a clicky switch with a silent switch of any kind.

To friends, who think I am slightly weird in spending so much money on a keyboard, I have likened it to playing a musical instrument. A great instrument will play better, make a more pleasant sound to your ears, and make your overall experience more fun. But, as with musical instruments, one does not buy a stradivarius as first instrument: the journey itself is too much fun to skip all the intermediate steps.

We are weird, and that's fine. Life would be pretty boring if everyone were the same. Your comparison to an instrument is apt. I agree completely. Nobody has the same tastes as the person next to them either. You won't necessarily like capacitive buckling spring as much as I do, and you may find yourself preferring something like a thocky linear switch or something.

As for the boards you mention: I must admit that most of the brands you mention do not even remotely ring a bell...  ;D But that is the noob's prerogative! I will definitely look into the switches you mention - all for the ultimate typing experience. I hope to end up at the board that makes me jump out of bed every morning because I can type on it again!

The Model F is an IBM keyboard (of various variants) manufactured throughout the 1980s. They were primarily made for IBM's PC XT and AT computers. It was a simplification/cheapening of IBM's beam spring keyboards, which were themselves meant to recreate the sensory characteristics of a mechanical typewriter in the mid-to-late 1970s. The Model M (membrane buckling spring), iterations of which are still manufactured by Unicomp, was a further simplification/cheapening of the Model F. They just recently began production of a recreation of the Model M SSK for the first time, which was a TKL version of the Model M. The Model F is lighter, smoother, and has more travel before the tactile event than the Model M. They also tend to be more pingy and high-pitched than the Model M due to their construction. They are easier to service/modify because their plate sandwich can be disassembled easily whereas the Model M's inner assembly is held together with plastic rivets. Ellipse is currently selling modern recreations of the F77 and F62, which were Model F variants that had beefy solid zinc cases. Here's the thread on here that deals with the topic.

Alps is another animal entirely. Production of Alps SKCM blue switches ceased in 1989 and they have never been faithfully reproduced. To make matters worse, they're very susceptible to dirt and debris, and are not MX compatible in any way, so they become scarcer and scarcer by the day and have little options in terms of boards, caps, etc. Since the end of production of SKCM blue, Alps continued to produce continuously cheapened clicky successors, starting with SKCM white switches. The early SKCM whites can be almost indistinguishable from SKCM blue, but the newer they are the more they differ. Eventually Alps began producing simplified versions of their switches, and then third parties manufactured them under license. Simplified Alps have had a bumpy reputation in terms of feel, sound, and reliability. Today, Matias' switches (simplified Alps clones) are manufactured by Gaote, who also makes the Outemu line of MX clones. Personally, I think that Gaote's Matias switches are probably the best mass-produced self-contained switch in production. They may still not be quite as reliable as MX (this remains to be seen), but the whole line feel and sound so much better. Alps also made linear and tactile switches, most of which are also much loved. Alps switches were mostly in boards sold by OEMS of another name, with very few exceptions, sort of like how MX (and clones) are today.

Box switches are MX compatibles that have IP56 waterproof/dustproof ratings. Their clicky switches use a relatively new click mechanism called a click bar, which is manufactured in varying thicknesses that lend themselves to both different levels of tactility and sound and different pitches when paired with different spring weightings. Most tend to agree that this family of clickies is better in every way than MX and clones, having extremely smooth and crisp tactile events with no rattle. There are box liners and tactiles, which are themselves also pretty smooth, and their tactiles have a slightly different design than that of MX and clones. They're known to possibly turn clicky over time though, unfortunately.

You're in the right place to find that very feeling, and I hope you do. Mechanical keyboards can be such a pleasure.

Offline bas72

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 03:17:09 »
Thank you for getting me up to speed on switches! (At breakneck speed, if I may add. :) I see you have been in this business for quite a bit longer already.) Just this morning I have been looking at the Matias switches. They look promising indeed, and they're even available in Europe. I am slightly hesitant to order equipment from the US - shipping costs are high, as are the chances that I have to pay extra at the border. I did notice that they do require specific keycaps, which is also a bit inconvenient at this stage of the hobby.  ;D

For the time being I'll use my whitefox (second hand) for typing, awaiting the arrival of my Ikki68. I have to resist the urge to jump onto everything that I see passing by. There are so many great keyboards out there, but like I said: there is no use in wasting money on everything you see. I hope to get that message across to my kids some day as well.

Thank you for all your information and kind words! Let's see where this ends...  ;D

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Love from Rotterdam, The Netherlands!
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 11:31:48 »
Thank you for getting me up to speed on switches! (At breakneck speed, if I may add. :) I see you have been in this business for quite a bit longer already.) Just this morning I have been looking at the Matias switches. They look promising indeed, and they're even available in Europe. I am slightly hesitant to order equipment from the US - shipping costs are high, as are the chances that I have to pay extra at the border. I did notice that they do require specific keycaps, which is also a bit inconvenient at this stage of the hobby.  ;D

You're very welcome. I should stress that everything I summarized was just based on the switches we've spoken about already. Clicky switches are my forte, so if you find you prefer (or have some specific use case for) switches of another type, there are certainly many more options out there as well. Tai Hao makes cap sets for Matias switches. They're double shot (meaning two color plastics were injected into the mold, making it impossible to wear the legends off) but they're relatively thin and made of ABS, which can wear smooth with time. This bothers a lot of people. I can't particularly understand why. You can mix and match them on a Matias board, but it won't look the best. Otherwise, you would need to find an Alps plate and PCB and a compatible case. KPParadise has offered their V80 model TKL keyboards with Matias switches in the past, and may be doing another limited run but they haven't responded to my questions about it via email. With a TKL, all Tai Hao caps would fit. LFK boards seemed promising to me as well, their TKL PCBs fit into any cases compatible with the V80 and some other TKL boards like the Coolermaster Quick Fire Rapid.

For the time being I'll use my whitefox (second hand) for typing, awaiting the arrival of my Ikki68. I have to resist the urge to jump onto everything that I see passing by. There are so many great keyboards out there, but like I said: there is no use in wasting money on everything you see. I hope to get that message across to my kids some day as well.

Thank you for all your information and kind words! Let's see where this ends...  ;D


That is wise of you. Those fox boards look pretty cool. Good luck on your journey.