Author Topic: Hello From Canada!  (Read 1907 times)

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Offline bunpa

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Hello From Canada!
« on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 09:44:12 »
Hi Everyone, I'm very excited to be part of this community. I got into mechanical keyboard because of my friend. I still need to make a budget for this otherwise all money is going to be spent on keyboard parts...  :)) :)). Looking forward to discussing with you!

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 10:18:13 »
Hi bunpa. Welcome to Geekhack.

I know the feeling all too well. What switches have you tried?

Offline bunpa

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Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 13:11:13 »
Thanks for the warm welcome Maledicted.

I tested the MX cherry red, brown, blue and found out that the blue switches are the one that I like the most.
I figured out that I'm a big fan of clicky switches.

With that being said, I recently bought a melody96 DIY kit and Kailh box navy switches!

How about you? What type of switches are you using right now?

Offline Maledicted

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Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 15:15:40 »
Thanks for the warm welcome Maledicted.

I tested the MX cherry red, brown, blue and found out that the blue switches are the one that I like the most.
I figured out that I'm a big fan of clicky switches.

With that being said, I recently bought a melody96 DIY kit and Kailh box navy switches!

How about you? What type of switches are you using right now?

You're very welcome, it is good to see another clicky fanatic around here. We seem to be in the minority.

Fantastic choice, have you had some time to try them yet? Box switches are the best MX compatible clickies in production today in my humble opinion. Navies are pretty stiff for somebody just getting into mechanicals.

I am currently using a Das Pro 4 that I swapped box navies into.  ;) Pure coincidence, because I use a wide range of vintage and modern clickies. If you haven't tried them, you may also want to look at box jades and pinks, capacitive buckling spring, Alps SKCM blue, and Matias' "tactile" switches (they're actually clicky, their "quiet clicks" are tactiles). Other nice vintage clickies, if you get really bored, are NEC blue ovals and Space Invaders.

Offline bunpa

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Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 04 March 2021, 16:24:38 »
You're very welcome, it is good to see another clicky fanatic around here. We seem to be in the minority.

Fantastic choice, have you had some time to try them yet? Box switches are the best MX compatible clickies in production today in my humble opinion. Navies are pretty stiff for somebody just getting into mechanicals.

I am currently using a Das Pro 4 that I swapped box navies into.  ;) Pure coincidence, because I use a wide range of vintage and modern clickies. If you haven't tried them, you may also want to look at box jades and pinks, capacitive buckling spring, Alps SKCM blue, and Matias' "tactile" switches (they're actually clicky, their "quiet clicks" are tactiles). Other nice vintage clickies, if you get really bored, are NEC blue ovals and Space Invaders.

Glad to see that i'm not the only fan of clicky switches! I feel the same way regarding that we are a minority hahaha.
To answer you question, I've been trying my keyboard for a week now and I love it haha. It reminds me the IBM model M that I had when I was younger.

How's the Box Pink compared to the Box Navy? My friend gave me 2 jades to test them and I feel that it missed something.

Are the vintage switches available on the market? I'm curious to try them.

Offline Maledicted

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  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 12:26:29 »
Glad to see that i'm not the only fan of clicky switches! I feel the same way regarding that we are a minority hahaha.
To answer you question, I've been trying my keyboard for a week now and I love it haha. It reminds me the IBM model M that I had when I was younger.

That makes sense. The Model M's membrane buckling spring is also a relatively stiff clicky mechanism. If you've got any nostalgia for that board, they're actually still very popular among clicky fanatics. Unicomp, who took over the mantle from IBM, is still manufacturing the Model M. They recently started production on a recreation of the Model M SSK for the first time, if interested.

Capacitive buckling spring was used in the IBM model that preceeded the Model M, the Model F. The mechanism is very similar, the biggest difference being that the Model F uses capacitive contacts on the board (sort of like what Topre does today) for actuation instead of a membrane, and the plate sandwhich is easy to take apart and service because it is two plates of metal clamped together instead of the plastic rivets used by the Model M. The Model F is smoother, lighter, and the spring buckles lower (mostly due to the caps). In spite of this, some do still prefer the Model M regardless. I know you ask lower down about what's available now, but while we're on the topic of buckling spring, Ellipse is is recreating the F62 and F77 keyboards from scratch. These were variants of the Model F that had very thick solid Zinc cases. I have one of his F77s, and it is wonderful. They're not cheap though, unfortunately. Otherwise, you'll need to hunt down old capacitive buckling spring boards, most of which have archaic layouts ... as the Model M is what standardized the layout we now consider to be ANSI. I have an F AT at one of my desks at work at the moment. I have no difficulty with it, but others do. I recommend staying away from the F XT (the layout is just too weird for me), but some people even prefer that.

How's the Box Pink compared to the Box Navy? My friend gave me 2 jades to test them and I feel that it missed something.

Box pinks, like navies have a good balance between the size of the tactile bump and the spring weighting. they have lighter springs and a smaller click bar, so they have less tactility and have a lighter press, but they make a nice bassy sound like jades, whereas the navies are kind of high-pitched, and can cause a lot of ping in cases particularly susceptible to it (I actually find ping entertaining, thus why I have navies in an aluminum chassis like this Das Pro 4). I imagine the thing missing from jades that you mention is the fact that they have even more perceived tactility than the navies, but a weaker spring. I actually like this myself, but I can see why it wouldn't be for everyone.

Are the vintage switches available on the market? I'm curious to try them.

Alps switches are long gone, but there are modern clones of their simplified mechanism (which is considered by most to be inferior). Matias contracts Gaote (the makers of Outemu switches) to make them very good clones, in my opinion. I prefer Matias' clicky switches to any modern MX or compatible switch and think that they're nearly as nice as the original SKCM Alps clickies. If you want the cream of the crop Alps clicky, SKCM blues, you need to hunt down ancient boards and/or switches as production ceased in 1989. They're wonderfully buttery smooth and bassy, with a pleasant and sharp tactile event. From that point on, Alps transitioned to SKCM white. Over time, the mechanism was simplified gradually. Thus the earliest SKCM whites are almost indistinguishable from blue, but the similarities reduced as the 90s progressed, and eventually Alps transitioned to SKBM and SKBL series switches, AKA simplified Alps.

Any Alps switches that were factory lubricated (like SKCM blue) are very susceptible to being ruined by dirt and dust, which cannot always really be fixed even with thorough cleaning and re-lubricating. Matias' switches have a reputation for possibly developing chatter problems, the cause of which has never been definitively pinned down. Their early switches were made by Forward, and I think these are the ones that gave them their poor reputation. I have 7 or 8 Matias boards now and I have yet to have a problem with any of the ones with Gaote-made switches. All food for thought.

All other vintage clicky switches that I'm aware of are totally out of production. If you want to try NEC blue ovals, you'll have to go to a keyboard meetup, or buy an old beige NEC board that is confirmed to contain them, etc.

Most of these vintage switches will have no compatibility with modern MX caps, boards, etc.
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 March 2021, 15:37:50 by Maledicted »

Offline bunpa

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Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 15:06:04 »
Quote
That makes sense. The Model M's membrane buckling spring is also a relatively stiff clicky mechanism. If you've got any nostalgia for that board, they're actually still very popular among clicky fanatics. Unicomp, who took over the mantle from IBM, is still manufacturing the Model M. They recently started production on a recreation of the Model M SSK for the first time, if interested.

I will take a look at Unicomp to see if I can get myself a Model M keyboard (need to check my budget since I just participate in a GB for the GMK Colorchrome haha).

Quote
Box pinks, like navies have a good balance between the size of the tactile bump and the spring weighting. they have lighter springs and a smaller click bar, so they have less tactility and have a lighter press, but they make a nice bassy sound like jades, whereas the navies are kind of high-pitched, and can cause a lot of ping in cases particularly susceptible to it (I actually find ping entertaining, thus why I have navies in an aluminum chassis like this Das Pro 4). I imagine the thing missing from jades that you mention is the fact that they have even more perceived tactility than the navies, but a weaker spring. I actually like this myself, but I can see why it wouldn't be for everyone.

Thanks for the comparison!

Quote
Alps switches are long gone, but there are modern clones of their simplified mechanism (which is considered by most to be inferior). Matias contracts Gaote (the makers of Outemu switches) to make them very good clones, in my opinion. I prefer Matias' clicky switches to any modern MX or compatible switch and think that they're nearly as nice as the original SKCM Alps clickies. If you want the cream of the crop Alps clicky, SKCM blues, you need to hunt down ancient boards and/or switches as production ceased in 1989. They're wonderfully buttery smooth and bassy, with a pleasant and sharp tactile event. From that point on, Alps transitioned to SKCM white. Over time, the mechanism was simplified gradually. Thus the earliest SKCM whites are almost indistinguishable from blue, but the similarities reduced as the 90s progressed, and eventually Alps transitioned to SKBM and SKBL series switches, AKA simplified Alps.

Any Alps switches that were factory lubricated (like SKCM blue) are very susceptible to being ruined by dirt and dust, which cannot always really be fixed even with thorough cleaning and re-lubricating. Matias' switches have a reputation for possibly developing chatter problems, the cause of which has never been definitively pinned down. Their early switches were made by Forward, and I think these are the ones that gave them their poor reputation. I have 7 or 8 Matias boards now and I have yet to have a problem with any of the ones with Gaote-made switches. All food for thought.

All other vintage clicky switches that I'm aware of are totally out of production. If you want to try NEC blue ovals, you'll have to go to a keyboard meetup, or buy an old beige NEC board that is confirmed to contain them, etc.

Most of these vintage switches will have no compatibility with modern MX caps, boards, etc.

Sad to hear that I'm a little bit late in the mechanical keyboard world to enjoy those vintage switches...

That's a lot of useful information that you gave me, it's really appreciated.

All the new members should be thankful to have someone in the community that takes care of them.

Thanks a lot Maledicted!!  ;D

Offline Maledicted

  • Posts: 2164
  • Location: Wisconsin, United States
Re: Hello From Canada!
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 05 March 2021, 15:49:47 »
Quote
That makes sense. The Model M's membrane buckling spring is also a relatively stiff clicky mechanism. If you've got any nostalgia for that board, they're actually still very popular among clicky fanatics. Unicomp, who took over the mantle from IBM, is still manufacturing the Model M. They recently started production on a recreation of the Model M SSK for the first time, if interested.

I will take a look at Unicomp to see if I can get myself a Model M keyboard (need to check my budget since I just participate in a GB for the GMK Colorchrome haha).

Unicomp's reputation has been spotty over the years, as IBM's original tooling wore out and they grappled with controller problems of their own design. I have only heard good things about them recently. They have retooled entirely for the Mini M (SSK resurrection) and the "New Model M" and seem to be taking greater care with the printing of the legends of their caps, the quality of which has been a gripe of those who care about such things in the past (I am not among them). There's debate as to whether or not even the best Unicomp compares to the earliest Model Ms from 1986-1987-ish. I can't comment on such things myself as I own no Unicomp boards.

That set looks nice.  :thumb:

Quote
Box pinks, like navies have a good balance between the size of the tactile bump and the spring weighting. they have lighter springs and a smaller click bar, so they have less tactility and have a lighter press, but they make a nice bassy sound like jades, whereas the navies are kind of high-pitched, and can cause a lot of ping in cases particularly susceptible to it (I actually find ping entertaining, thus why I have navies in an aluminum chassis like this Das Pro 4). I imagine the thing missing from jades that you mention is the fact that they have even more perceived tactility than the navies, but a weaker spring. I actually like this myself, but I can see why it wouldn't be for everyone.

Thanks for the comparison!

You're very welcome. I hope you find that helpful. As you must already know, descriptions pale in comparison to experience with switches, so being able to try every switch you're interested in is always going to be a better indicator than how others perceive them. Switch testers come in handy, but I have yet to find a single one that even has box pinks in it, for some inexplicable reason.

Quote
Alps switches are long gone, but there are modern clones of their simplified mechanism (which is considered by most to be inferior). Matias contracts Gaote (the makers of Outemu switches) to make them very good clones, in my opinion. I prefer Matias' clicky switches to any modern MX or compatible switch and think that they're nearly as nice as the original SKCM Alps clickies. If you want the cream of the crop Alps clicky, SKCM blues, you need to hunt down ancient boards and/or switches as production ceased in 1989. They're wonderfully buttery smooth and bassy, with a pleasant and sharp tactile event. From that point on, Alps transitioned to SKCM white. Over time, the mechanism was simplified gradually. Thus the earliest SKCM whites are almost indistinguishable from blue, but the similarities reduced as the 90s progressed, and eventually Alps transitioned to SKBM and SKBL series switches, AKA simplified Alps.

Any Alps switches that were factory lubricated (like SKCM blue) are very susceptible to being ruined by dirt and dust, which cannot always really be fixed even with thorough cleaning and re-lubricating. Matias' switches have a reputation for possibly developing chatter problems, the cause of which has never been definitively pinned down. Their early switches were made by Forward, and I think these are the ones that gave them their poor reputation. I have 7 or 8 Matias boards now and I have yet to have a problem with any of the ones with Gaote-made switches. All food for thought.

All other vintage clicky switches that I'm aware of are totally out of production. If you want to try NEC blue ovals, you'll have to go to a keyboard meetup, or buy an old beige NEC board that is confirmed to contain them, etc.

Most of these vintage switches will have no compatibility with modern MX caps, boards, etc.

Sad to hear that I'm a little bit late in the mechanical keyboard world to enjoy those vintage switches...

That's a lot of useful information that you gave me, it's really appreciated.

All the new members should be thankful to have someone in the community that takes care of them.

Thanks a lot Maledicted!!  ;D

You are, but I would imagine most people were. Nobody knew anything about all of this until the resurgence in popularity of mechanical keyboards and efforts began to compile information on vintage switches and compare them. This apparently began in Asia and eventually spread around. As exposure increases, so will demand. You could look at some of the more desirable vintage keyboards and switches as an investment, should you need justification for making a purchase.  ;)

You're very welcome, and that's very kind of you to say. I'm just playing catch-up. I don't like seeing so many so many new member introductions with 0 responses.