Author Topic: Remote desktop issues  (Read 3658 times)

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Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« on: Fri, 20 August 2010, 20:50:32 »
Since I'm trying to basically use the 300GL as a dumb computer for internet related tasks, I tried using my intellistation to take over with remote desktop. The only problem is, it won't work. Windows 7 just gives me a stupid nonsensical stock message like "check to see if you are connected" (of course it's connected!)

I can look into the 300GL's network folder and all that, and see any changes dynamically.

At the moment I don't have a spare router, so, I have the intellistation directly hooked into one of the 300GL's ethernet ports, and the other port going into the modem, so it works like this (excuse the bad diagram, I only have paint on the 300GL and no other fancy gfx apps):


The 300GL's two ethernet ports have one going into the intellistation, and another into the router -- both ethernet ports are good and working.
The green arrows represent that after the intellistation takes over the 300GL with remote desktop, it can then have pseudo-access to the internet by manipulation of the 300GL.

My question is, is remote desktop not working because I'd need a router for dynamic DHCP addressing?

(300GL is running on XP, intellistation is of course on Windows 7).

EDIT:
why would I want to do this?
#1 good stop for viruses (and don't have to muck up my windows install with junk from websites -- I don't go on anything bad, but sometimes other people -- like my dad -- help themselves to going on my intellistation).
#2 gives me a reason to use the 300GL
#3 I can leave stuff download all night on the 300GL while being able to turn off the intellistation.

If there's anything better than bill gates' remote desktop, let me know.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 August 2010, 20:55:19 by EverythingIBM »
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 20 August 2010, 21:51:59 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215198
Since I'm trying to basically use the 300GL as a dumb computer for internet related tasks, I tried using my intellistation to take over with remote desktop. The only problem is, it won't work. Windows 7 just gives me a stupid nonsensical stock message like "check to see if you are connected" (of course it's connected!)

I can look into the 300GL's network folder and all that, and see any changes dynamically.

At the moment I don't have a spare router, so, I have the intellistation directly hooked into one of the 300GL's ethernet ports, and the other port going into the modem, so it works like this (excuse the bad diagram, I only have paint on the 300GL and no other fancy gfx apps):
Show Image


The 300GL's two ethernet ports have one going into the intellistation, and another into the router -- both ethernet ports are good and working.
The green arrows represent that after the intellistation takes over the 300GL with remote desktop, it can then have pseudo-access to the internet by manipulation of the 300GL.

My question is, is remote desktop not working because I'd need a router for dynamic DHCP addressing?

(300GL is running on XP, intellistation is of course on Windows 7).

EDIT:
why would I want to do this?
#1 good stop for viruses (and don't have to muck up my windows install with junk from websites -- I don't go on anything bad, but sometimes other people -- like my dad -- help themselves to going on my intellistation).
#2 gives me a reason to use the 300GL
#3 I can leave stuff download all night on the 300GL while being able to turn off the intellistation.

If there's anything better than bill gates' remote desktop, let me know.

Well, you've got a few issues to deal with.  First on the physical layer.  As Kishy said, depending on the NICs, you may need a crossover cable to get a link, check for a link light for that bit.  Also you will need some form of port forwarding to move the traffic from one interface to the other on the 300GL, like Internet Connection Sharing.  And as the NICs won't be getting DHCP assignments from the router in this scenario, you'll need to either statically set them up to a common subnet or do it via your port forwarding software such as you can do with ICS.

If you have a physical connection and have IPs assigned on the same subnet, then check to make sure that RDP is listening.  Open a command line window and to a "netstat -a".  RDP should be listening on port 3389.  If you don't see it, try "netstat -an".  It may only be listening on the primary port set as the default route, not sure.  If you're running XP on the 300GL then per KB 924927 by default Microsoft Windows XP Remote Desktop and Terminal Services use all available network interfaces to listen for Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) requests.  If you're running something else, you'll have to check.  If RDP is listening then is probably either no link or lack of proper IP configuration with the NICs on a common unique subnet.

Actually.  Do you need ICS?  Perhaps not.  Let's see.  If you get a link, configure the IPs & same unique private subnet between the two boxes, then you should be able to launch a remote desktop on the 300GL.  Once you do that, everything but your unique private subnet between the PCs (an RFC1918 compliant subnet like 192.168.x.x or 10.x.x.x that is different that your router subnet) should go to the default gateway connected to the router.  So perhaps you don't need ICS.  You certainly would if RDP wasn't in the mix, but maybe not with it.

If you have a spare port on the router it would be much simpler to just plug into that, RDP to the 300GL and out to the Internet from there, then all of these problems go away.  So something like this, also quick & dirty.
« Last Edit: Fri, 20 August 2010, 23:29:22 by TexasFlood »

Offline D-EJ915

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 20 August 2010, 22:18:48 »
yep you need a crossover cable and enable ICS on the nic connected to the modem, it will automatically assign an address to your NIC connected to the intellistation

Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 20 August 2010, 23:59:13 »
Well this is fairly more complex than I first anticipated, but then again, I always would fain working on network stuff.

Well my next idea was this: having a separate router connecting all the computers I need (basically a private network), and then having the 300GL connecting to the other router with the internet. This keeps the intellistation still out of the main router with internet, and also allows me to keep the internet router outside of my room. I use a very long ethernet cable for my own internet connection.

The only problem is I only have one router (I used to have a gateway -- which would have been suffice, but lost the AC adapter), and not enough ethernet cables.

I did put another ethernet card in the 300GL, so it has three ethernet ports. Interestingly enough, I got all of those ethernet cards from free computers. I think I used to have more even, but before I got interested in computer hardware, I just threw most of that stuff out.

So... I'll either try TexasFlood's crazy method if I feel up to it -- or do it the simple way -- whenever I get enough resources.

EDIT:
almost forgot, I do have a longer ethernet cord kicking around, so I can try the single router trick (both computers into the router), for now, until I want to play around with networks some more.

It's great that there's multiple ways to accomplish one task though.
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Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:03:32 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215234
EDIT:
almost forgot, I do have a longer Ethernet cord kicking around, so I can try the single router trick (both computers into the router), for now, until I want to play around with networks some more.

It's great that there's multiple ways to accomplish one task though.
Just plugging them into the same router should be pretty plug-and-play.

My note above rambled a bit, thinking out loud, and probably made other approaches sound more complicated than they really are.  It is more complicated than plugging into the same router.  It really should work basically as you proposed it, if you really want to go that way.  Might need a crossover cable and a distinct private subnet with static NIC IP configurations.  I actually don't think you need ICS, so long as you are using RDP, although not 100% sure.  I think the following approach should work though:

Prereqs:
300GL plugged into router and Internet access working.
Unused NICs in both 300GL and Intellistation.
Cables, duh, at least Ethernet, quite likely a crossover as well.
Depends on if your NICs are smart enough to sense & adapt to using a normal cable in a crossover situation.

1) Pick an RFC1918 compliant private subnet different from main router
Examples 192.168.99.0 mask or 10.1.1.0, both masks of 255.255.255.0
2) Assuming you pick 10.1.1.0 subnet, the assign static addresses to each
Example 10.1.1.2 for Intellistation and 10.1.1.3 for 300GL
3) Enable and configure linked NICs with above IP addresses and 255.255.255.0 mask.
I don't think the default gateway needs to be defined as traffic on the same subnet doesn't require routing.  But if it is required, the 300GL should already be set so don't change it, and set the intellistation to the IP of the 300GL private address (10.1.1.3 in our example).
4) Connect unused NICs with normal Ethernet cable
5) Assure link lights show successful link
6) If success, move on, otherwise get crossover cable and try again.
If both normal Ethernet and crossover cables fail, one of the NICs may be bad.
7) At this point you really should be able to launch RDP on the 300GL from the Intellistation and access the Internet.

If it doesn't work, then would have to do some debugging which would basically be rechecking the steps above and possibly looking at some netstat output to check that processes are properly listening/connecting and that routing tables look right.

So the second approach is obviously not plug-and-play like the first but something you could do with some time to set it up and troubleshoot if needed.  And you can always fall back to the simple method then continue when you have time.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:17:07 by TexasFlood »

Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:17:45 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;215257
Just plugging them into the same router should be pretty plug-and-play.

My note above rambled a bit, thinking out loud, and probably made other approaches sound more complicated than they really are.  It is more complicated than plugging into the same router.  It really should work basically as you proposed it, if you really want to go that way.  Might need a crossover cable and a distinct private subnet with static NIC IP configurations.  I actually don't think you need ICS, so long as you are using RDP, although not 100% sure.  I think the following approach should work though:

Prereqs:
300GL plugged into router and Internet access working.
Unused NICs in both 300GL and Intellistation.
Cables, duh, at least Ethernet, quite likely a crossover as well.
Depends on if your NICs are smart enough to sense & adapt to using a normal cable in a crossover situation.

1) Pick an RFC1918 compliant private subnet different from main router
Examples 192.168.99.0 mask or 10.1.1.0, both masks of 255.255.255.0
2) Assuming you pick 10.1.1.0 subnet, the assign static addresses to each
Example 10.1.1.2 for Intellistation and 10.1.1.3 for 300GL
3) Enable and configure linked NICs with above IP addresses and 255.255.255.0 mask.
I don't think the default gateway needs to be defined as traffic on the same subnet doesn't require routing.  But if it is required, the 300GL should already be set so don't change it, and set the intellistation to the IP of the 300GL private address (10.1.1.3 in our example).
4) Connect unused NICs with normal Ethernet cable
5) Assure link lights show successful link
6) If success, move on, otherwise get crossover cable and try again.
If both normal Ethernet and crossover cables fail, one of the NICs may be bad.
7) At this point you really should be able to launch RDP on the 300GL from the Intellistation and access the Internet.

If it doesn't work, then would have to do some debugging which would basically be rechecking the steps above and possibly looking at some netstat output to check that processes are properly listening/connecting and that routing tables look right.

So the second approach is obviously not plug-and-play like the first but something you could do with some time to try and troubleshoot if needed.

Well I did some fooling around, and I decided to try connecting the 300GL to the intellistation instead, and what do you know, it worked (I thought it wouldn't, and I was rather mad it did, I don't want to use my intellistation as the puppet computer). Sort of. I couldn't log in, but it still connected to the win7 screen regardless (but I think I know how I could fix that -- which I'm not going to since it'd be redundant as that's not the outcome I want).

So the issue is something with windows 7, or, the 300GL blocking itself from accepting remote viewing requests (although I enabled it all... it is by default).

After this, I'm kind of thinking the method without the router can work, perhaps more smoothly. I do play TCP/IP games with direct cables instead of a router now and then.

EDIT:
I should add my experience with networking terms, or, anything regarding it in general is very limited. I've always hated networks and all that -- bad times with it all... particularly ISPs.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:22:37 by EverythingIBM »
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:20:45 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215260
Well I did some fooling around, and I decided to try connecting the 300GL to the intellistation instead, and what do you know, it worked (I thought it wouldn't, and I was rather mad it did, I don't want to use my intellistation as the puppet computer). Sort of. I couldn't log in, but it still connected to the win7 screen regardless (but I think I know how I could fix that -- which I'm not going to since it'd be redundant as that's not the outcome I want).

So the issue is something with windows 7, or, the 300GL blocking itself from accepting remote viewing requests (although I enabled it all... it is by default).

After this, I'm kind of thinking the method without the router can work, perhaps more smoothly. I do play TCP/IP games with direct cables instead of a router now and then.


Just to confirm, the 300GL is running XP Pro?  Any software firewalls enabled?

Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:24:37 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;215262
Just to confirm, the 300GL is running XP Pro?  Any software firewalls enabled?

Yes XP. No firewalls. I hate firewalls, especially that stupid router firewall which prevents me from using my POP3 email account. I can only receive messages and not send any. Same goes for warcraft 3 hosting; router blocks it.

EDIT:
waiiit... it's XP HOME not XP Pro.
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Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:29:00 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215263
Yes XP. No firewalls. I hate firewalls, especially that stupid router firewall which prevents me from using my POP3 email account. I can only receive messages and not send any. Same goes for warcraft 3 hosting; router blocks it.
OK, not clear if it's XP Pro or not.  The reason I asked was to make sure that it's a version that included RDP services, not just the client.  Just confirming the basics.  And that it's enabled (control panel, system, remote tab, check box under Remote Desktop to "Allow users to connect remotely to this computer".

Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:34:15 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;215265
OK, not clear if it's XP Pro or not.  The reason I asked was to make sure that it's a version that included RDP services, not just the client.  Just confirming the basics.  And that it's enabled (control panel, system, remote tab, check box under Remote Desktop to "Allow users to connect remotely to this computer".


Yeah it's not there! I thought maybe cause it was SP1 or something.

Alright. Time to install XP Pro I guess. I don't have a disc so I'll to download one and burn one (do got keycodes).

Thanks. Sometimes the errors made are stupid simple ones.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:41:40 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215267
Yeah it's not there! I thought maybe cause it was SP1 or something.

Alright. Time to install XP Pro I guess. I don't have a disc so I'll to download one and burn one (do got keycodes).

Thanks. Sometimes the errors made are stupid simple ones.


Happens to the best of us.  Happened to me recently.

You have to make some assumptions to have a starting position to do anything.  Make one assumption too many and as the old saying goes, it makes an ASS out of U and ME, :wink:.  Sorry, can't help myself, one of my favorite sayings, :smile:.

I recently spend a couple of days diagnosing a server problem.  I was doing it remotely working with other staff local to the server, which is always an extra challenge.  The assumption that the server was configured as ordered turned out to be not true but took a while to dismiss other possibilities and come back around to discover an important component was delivered with the base crap rather than the decent configuration that was actually ordered.  I'd just never had this happen to me so seemed like a reasonable thing to assume.  ARGH!!!

Offline EverythingIBM

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 02:52:26 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;215271
Happens to the best of us.  Happened to me recently.

You have to make some assumptions to have a starting position to do anything.  Make one assumption too many and as the old saying goes, it makes an ASS out of U and ME, :wink:.  Sorry, can't help myself, one of my favorite sayings, :smile:.

I recently spend a couple of days diagnosing a server problem.  I was doing it remotely working with other staff local to the server, which is always an extra challenge.  The assumption that the server was configured as ordered turned out to be not true but took a while to dismiss other possibilities and come back around to discover an important component was delivered with the base crap rather than the decent configuration that was actually ordered.  I'd just never had this happen to me so seemed like a reasonable thing to assume.  ARGH!!!


I may as well make good out of my mistake and add a better HDD in the computer. Maybe a different CD drive instead of the x52.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 03:07:53 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215273
I may as well make good out of my mistake and add a better HDD in the computer. Maybe a different CD drive instead of the x52.

Sure, turn it into a positive if you can, at least have a sense of humor about it if not, :wink:.  In the meantime, maybe you could try using VNC instead.  That's what I used back in the day and it's still around working fine.

Offline microsoft windows

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 18:10:27 »
Quote from: EverythingIBM;215263
Yes XP. No firewalls. I hate firewalls, especially that stupid router firewall which prevents me from using my POP3 email account. I can only receive messages and not send any. Same goes for warcraft 3 hosting; router blocks it.

EDIT:
waiiit... it's XP HOME not XP Pro.


Ugh. Home Editon is terrible. Get 2000 Pro, NT4, or XP Pro if you're doing anything with networks.
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Offline TexasFlood

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Remote desktop issues
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 21 August 2010, 20:59:26 »
You should give TightVNC or UltraVNC a try.