Author Topic: Looking for a switch with long travel distance & bright stem color (for aimpad)  (Read 5115 times)

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Offline Volny

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So I'm thinking of changing the switches in my Cooler Master Controlpad. It's a macro pad that uses "aimpad" technology to make the switch 'analog': you can have it do one thing if you half-press a key and another if you bottom out.

But I'm finding it a little tricky to reliably stick to the right actuation point (ie. reach the first actuation point without accidentally reaching the second) . So I'm thinking of using a stronger spring, and hopefully a switch with a longer travel distance. The current switches are cherry reds.

Apparently this tech works best with brighter stem colors. No, I don't mean color conventions (blue = clicky, brown = tactile, etc). I mean actual bright colors, because they more effectively reflect light for the aimpad's infrared sensor, as explained here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2LcEU0k4Y1I&t=594s

What would be a good switch to try? One that has a long travel distance and a bright color (eg. yellow or white)? A heavy stock spring would be icing on the cake, but I can always swap the springs myself. Finally, it must be linear. Thanks for any suggestions.


Offline Leopard223

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Doesn’t it have specifically made switches for it?     
You could get some switch samples to harvest a spring and a stem but you need to make sure the stem will work with the optical switch.

Offline Volny

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https://www.banggood.com/Feker-10-or-70-or-110-Pcs-Mechanical-Switches-Blue-Grey-3Pin-Linear-67g-Airy-Switches-for-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-p-1803350.html?cur_warehouse=CN&ID=511073&rmmds=search

Fekers perhaps?

White stem, long pole, linear, 67g, heavier than reds

Won't a long pole give it an extra short travel distance? Since the pole is already reaching deep down before a press?

Doesn’t it have specifically made switches for it?     
You could get some switch samples to harvest a spring and a stem but you need to make sure the stem will work with the optical switch.

I haven't opened it yet, but in the video I linked the guy uses all sorts of regular switches with it: gaterons, zealios, matias...

Offline Pylon

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If tactiles are ok - Dusk Pandas have have bright orange stems, and ~4.1mm travel distance.

Offline Volny

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It has to be linear, as a tactile will make it harder to prevent the second actuation.

Offline Volny

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Do springs get completely compressed inside the switch?

I just swapped out the stock cherry red springs for some 75g ones, assuming that the heavier spring would make it easier to avoid accidentally hitting the lower actuation point. But actually it's had the reverse effect - it's almost impossible to reliably hit only actuation point. If I map the top actuation point to 1 and the bottom actuation point to 2, then lightly press the key repeatedly, I'll get something like 1112111122111111121111.

I'm guessing that the reason for this is that the 75g springs I swapped in were longer (I guess 16mm rather than 14mm). So if they fully compress I guess they would make the stem not reach as far down, which would alter the infrared sensor behaviour. Does that sound right?

Offline Pylon

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Yes the travel should be the same with most springs.

A longer spring has a higher initial force, and a smaller change in force over the course of the travel, which may be why it's harder to precisely hit the actuation. You might want a shorter spring that has a lower initial force.

E.g. here - the Cherry MX Clear spring is ~12.5mm long, the Novelkeys 89g spring is ~13mm long, and the Kailh Speed Pale Blue spring is ~15mm long. You can see the Kailh spring has a higher initial force and doesn't change its force as much over the course of the travel.

Offline Volny

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Thanks for that informative answer. Good to know! Though it feels like something else is at play here. Because the problem isn't that I have trouble not bottoming out, but rather that the second actuation frequently happens long before the bottom out.

The software has a slider that lets you choose at which point the actuations happen, and goes from 10% to 90%. It's not actually clear to me how the slider works (whether the % value refers to the 1st or 2nd actuation), but I did many trials at 10%, 50%, and 90%, and I would have thought that one of those would give me a result where the first actuation comes relatively early while the second actuation doesn't happen until on (or very near) the bottom out. Unfortunately, I couldn't reliably get this behaviour, and often both actuations seem to happen somewhere around the middle.

I've actually given up on the aimpad function of the ControlPad, as it just seems to flaky or hard to get a handle on. For the sake of any future Googlers, I'll relate what I've found in my efforts to get it working.

The aimpad technology is very picky when it comes to switches. It's not just the stem color that matters, but the stem construction and the bottom housing material. Anything with an opaque bottom housing flat out doesn't work. The only switches in my collection with a 'clear' polycarbonate bottom housing are dragonfruits, but they're quite dark magenta, and they don't seem to work too well. A whitish/yellowish milky nylon bottom housing (like that of the Cherry reds that came with it) seems ok.

The actual length or shape of the stem pole probably doesn't matter (unless it's so long it itself is the point of bottom out - see below). The infrared sensors are on the side, and appear to measure the light bouncing off one side of the stem rails:



This seems to have several implications. Firstly, the rail must be able to come all the way down (A stem with a very long pole may prevent this). Secondly, the area where it comes down must be clear of visual obstructions. This happens to be same area where the extra pins are in 5-pin switches. If there's a little bumpy irregular knub where you've snipped off the pin, that may degrade the infrared accuracy. That seemed to be the case in a few of my tests. Maybe filing them down till smooth would help, but I didn't have the patience to try that. Finally, the stem needs to have a large, flat area in that spot. Some stems have a hollow slit in this area, or are very thin, or may be weirdly angled.

And as noted above, the stem needs to be a bright color that will effectively reflect the infrared. This doesn't seem that straightforward though. In the video I linked above, white stems underperformed red ones, while yellow ones outperformed them, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Though perhaps that was due to other stem attributes, such as those I just mentioned.

Of the switches in my collection, I only found one or two that fit all the criteria. And these worked pretty well, but once I tried to add a heavier spring things went downhill.

One of the big problems is the way the ControlPad callibration seems to work (or not work). It seems to require frequent recallibration; If I unplugged it then plugged it in, sometimes the aimpad accuracy seemed to become poor and require recallibration. The problem is that you can only callibrate all the keys at once, and if just one of them fails to calibrate then it stalls the entire process. Since I wanted to use a mixture of switches, including some tactile/clicky ones with black housings, this was a problem. I thought that I could get around this problem by installing all 'analog friendly' switches first (eg. ie. milky nylon housings, red cherry stems), calibrating, then swapping out those switches that were going to be just digital. This is easy enough, since you can callibrate switches without even soldering them, as the aimpad sensors work inependently of the metal pins. This approach worked initially, but then like I said, as soon as I unplugged it and replugged it in, it felt in need of calibration again, which was impossible because of some of the black-bottomed switches that were now soldered in (the black soaks up so much of the infrared that the callibration never completes).

So I've given up on trying to get the analog side of this to work. To be useful and not super annoying, the dual-stage activation had to be super accurate and predictable, and to get it to be like that seems to be too much trouble to be worth it. I'm just using the ControlPad as a run of the mill macropad at the moment. At least the two wheels on top of it are useful and work great, so it still feels like a worthwhile purchase, and not just an overpriced numpad.