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Author Topic: IDE SSDs for old computers  (Read 31963 times)

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Offline Phaedrus2129

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #100 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 00:24:20 »
I don't think the silicon is melted down, but I'm pretty sure they recover the metals when possible.
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Offline Konrad

  • Posts: 348
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #101 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 00:33:28 »
From what I've been reading up, AMD's "Fusion" ("Bulldozer", "Llano", "Bobcat") APUs will integrate K10 CPU and ATI DX11 GPU cores in a single package. Sounds like a recipe for utter pwnage to me, especially if
1) these systems can still accept "traditional" GPU cards
2) AMD begins making the cards themselves with these monster CPU/GPU multicores
3) their sockets are (at least partially) compatible with existing AM3 sockets
 
I currently use three X58 mobos (Intel DX58SO, Asus P6T, MSI X58P) with three quad i7's (920 and two OC'd 930s) ... I was planning on upgrading them all, now I'm considering selling all three (well, maybe just the ****tier two) boards/processors/coolers before their resale value drops too much and just going *gasp* all AMD, the way it looks I can go all Black Edition and break about even on cashflow, maybe get one i7-X upgrade.
 
[Edit]
(add to above)
4) thermal management isn't impossible
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 September 2010, 00:35:31 by Konrad »
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Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #102 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 00:38:20 »
AM3 CPUs will run in AM3+ sockets, but AM3+ CPUs will not run in AM3 sockets.

This unfortunately means that you need a mobo upgrade to use Bulldozer, but it also means that the Fusion platform will support mainstream CPUs from the very start.


A bit more on repair/recycling of chips. I don't know a lot about this, a lot of it is hearsay. You're right that repairing a raw die is an astounding technical feat, and it would be impossible to repair a damaged core. However, I do believe that Intel will fix minor or easily fixable problems. Again, bad cache is a good example. If a Gulftown has a bad L3 cache chip, it could easily be worth replacing. Even if it costs the equivalent of $500 to repair, that's still a $200-300 profit off that chip, versus zero if they just trashed it, or less than $50 salvaging and recycling.



EDIT: There's no reason for Fusion not to have PCIe slots/links for discrete GPUs. The onboard GPU of Fusion is supposed to be something like a 5450, or its Radeon 6000 counterpart. Entry level obviously, but far better than anything Intel has shown. The high-end AMD Fusion gaming system of 2011 will be a 4/8 core Bulldozer CPU in an AMD 990FX chipset motherboard with a Radeon 6800 or 6900 series graphics card.
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 September 2010, 00:42:15 by Phaedrus2129 »
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Offline Konrad

  • Posts: 348
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 01:07:33 »
I think the CPU+GPU multicore idea is more useful than that.
 
I think CPU (that is, APU+FPU+pipeline+codeset) functions have been overkill for years. How many GHz do you really need to run a word processor, even with Windows bloat? Trading some on-die real estate away from "unused" CPU power to GPU power will go far beyond simple fps considerations ... applications for streaming processors, physics, GPGPU and all that are exploding. GUIs would benefit from immense performance increases. Well, some GUIs would.
 
But of course it's all still sci-fi.
AMD says Q3/2011, so probably really Q2/2012 lol. That's a long wait either way, longer still because all the OS and software stuff will have to mature into it.
 
Don't let my newfound AMD enthusiasm fool you just yet.  I'm not in any rush to wildly throw years of fanboyism away on a first impression, especially since I've planned (saved for) my upgrade so long ... I bought good mobos and the cheapest processors I could use, from craigslist in two cases, with the plan of ultimately upgrading to i7-X later on ... we all have dreams.  Mine are just nerdy.
 
[Edit]
 
What's this you say about sockets? As I (now) understand it, Phenom IIs are AM3 and some can work in AM2+ or even AM2 with limited capabilities. There is no official AM3+ socket (yet), it's just what people seem to be calling it. Is this wrong?  Buying into AM3 might be as dead-end as LGA1366 within a year or two?
« Last Edit: Wed, 08 September 2010, 03:48:35 by Konrad »
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Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #104 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 07:28:50 »
Quote from: Konrad;220818
I was going to ask about that above, but forgot.
 
AMD appears to have low yields, judging by the large variety of flawed X6 chips which are de-rated as lower-priced X4. I'd be surprised if they deliberately rebin any full-spec X6 chips because there's (apparently) an abundant supply of X4 but an intermittent shortage of X6. Vendors just can't restock as fast as they sell.
 
(Even mighty NCIX - Vancouver, Richmond, Burnaby, and Langley stores all within 20 minutes drive!  How could I not know? - is currently completely out of stock.)

whacho talkin' 'bout?

http://ajax.ncix.com/checkinventory.php?sku=52067

they have this proc.

DRIVE??!? who does that any more? Order that **** online. Don't have a CC you say? No worries, NCIX takes PP and INTERAC ONLINE. How convenient!

Plus Im sure there is a "pick up in store option" where you still don't pay shipping (there is here when I order, as the just opened a store in Markham (which is nowhere near me)).

FYI, I am in no way affiliated with NCIX, but they have always treated me right. A fellow GHer ordered a Steelseries with cherry blacks and had issues with a stuck switch. They took it back and paid the shipping both ways (not even customary if you didn't purchase "expressRMA" coverage.

anywho...


Quote from: Konrad;220829

 
What's this you say about sockets? As I (now) understand it, Phenom IIs are AM3 and some can work in AM2+ or even AM2 with limited capabilities. There is no official AM3+ socket (yet), it's just what people seem to be calling it. Is this wrong?  Buying into AM3 might be as dead-end as LGA1366 within a year or two?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socket_AM2#Successors

AMD has tried to not burn people on successive AMx releases.
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Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #105 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 08:26:29 »
AM2 CPU - Compatible with AM2 and AM2+ sockets
AM2+ CPU - Compatible with AM2+, and partially compatible with AM2
AM3 CPU - Compatible with AM2+, AM3, and AM3+ sockets, partially compatible with AM2
AM3+ CPU - Compatible with AM3+ sockets
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Offline ch_123

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #106 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 08:30:55 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129;220855
AM3+ CPU - Compatible with AM3+ sockets


Ah, great job AMD. Make a completely new socket, but give it a name that implies backwards compatibility when it does not...
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Offline instantkamera

  • Posts: 617
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 08:36:17 »
Quote from: ch_123;220856
Ah, great job AMD. Make a completely new socket, but give it a name that implies backwards compatibility when it does not...

Well since neither socket nor cpu is out right now ... so ...

but note that he is talking about the compatibility of CPUs in new/old sockets. OLDER AM3 CPUs (say you buy the current hex) should be compatible going forward (like I could buy a new mobo and keep my old proc for a bit). I know this was NOT the case when they changed the memory controller from AM2-3, but there is no proof that is going to be the case again.
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Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 08:56:41 »
Quote from: instantkamera;220858
Well since neither socket nor cpu is out right now ... so ...

but note that he is talking about the compatibility of CPUs in new/old sockets. OLDER AM3 CPUs (say you buy the current hex) should be compatible going forward (like I could buy a new mobo and keep my old proc for a bit). I know this was NOT the case when they changed the memory controller from AM2-3, but there is no proof that is going to be the case again.


AMD confirmed it in a press release. AM3+ CPUs will only work in AM3+ sockets, but AM3 CPUs will still work in them as well.
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Offline ch_123

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 08 September 2010, 09:11:43 »
Quote from: instantkamera;220858
Well since neither socket nor cpu is out right now ... so ...

but note that he is talking about the compatibility of CPUs in new/old sockets. OLDER AM3 CPUs (say you buy the current hex) should be compatible going forward (like I could buy a new mobo and keep my old proc for a bit). I know this was NOT the case when they changed the memory controller from AM2-3, but there is no proof that is going to be the case again.


Didn't see that AM3s will work in AM3+, thus why the post was subsequently deleted.
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Offline BigBrother

  • Posts: 87
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #110 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 06:22:53 »
Quote from: ch_123;218675
Last I checked, an SSD is a type of hard drive.
lolz. SSDs are a type of flash drive. Hard Disk Drives (aka HDDs) use platters (they spin, usually make noise, runs kinda warm to touch) while SSDs use flash chips (non-mechanical, don't make noise, usually lower heat) (?).
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Offline Rajagra

  • Posts: 1930
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #111 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 06:29:01 »
Well if you think about it, SSD is a misnomer whichever way you say it. They are neither a disk, nor a drive.
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Offline ch_123

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #112 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 08:25:57 »
Quote from: BigBrother;234616
lolz. SSDs are a type of flash drive. Hard Disk Drives (aka HDDs) use platters (they spin, usually make noise, runs kinda warm to touch) while SSDs use flash chips (non-mechanical, don't make noise, usually lower heat) (?).


The last I checked, they were called hard drives because they weren't tape-based. I'd make the distinction between SSDs and platter or mechanical drives.
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Offline BigBrother

  • Posts: 87
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #113 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 08:46:54 »
Quote from: ch_123;234648
The last I checked, they were called hard drives because they weren't tape-based. I'd make the distinction between SSDs and platter or mechanical drives.
they're actually called hard disk drives by the industry- although, much like SATA among other things, the name has been shortened or modified to accommodate the stupider people and have thus become the 'new name'. ->SSD
« Last Edit: Sat, 16 October 2010, 09:05:18 by BigBrother »
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Offline kip69

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    • http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #114 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 09:47:35 »
From what I remember at computex, there are several cards that take CF or SD and turn them into hard drives.  Some were like small raid controllers that used 2 or 4 cards in a faster array.  The pci cards that I seen, with both memory or flash type cards were all non bootable.  This made me sad and I killed many Boffins.
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Offline Ekaros

  • Posts: 942
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #115 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 10:30:18 »
Didn't read the thread, but what about CFs and IDE adapters?
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Offline BigBrother

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #116 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 17:53:59 »
Quote from: Ekaros;234724
Didn't read the thread, but what about CFs and IDE adapters?
you noob, don't "tl;dr" and suggest something that has been suggested. >_>
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Offline Parak

  • Posts: 532
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #117 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 18:14:19 »
Quote from: kishy;234708
Funny, this topic, because when I received my Pentium MMX tablet it had an "SSD".


Ha! The 3.5" is exactly the same, except... largelier.
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Offline Ekaros

  • Posts: 942
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #118 on: Sat, 16 October 2010, 18:42:23 »
Quote from: BigBrother;234896
you noob, don't "tl;dr" and suggest something that has been suggested. >_>


Geekhack, just have such tendency to be fully off-topic lot of time... ;D
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Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #119 on: Sun, 17 October 2010, 23:53:18 »
Quote from: Rajagra;234618
Well if you think about it, SSD is a misnomer whichever way you say it. They are neither a disk, nor a drive.


That's sort of true, yes. They are just bunches of memory attached via a serial drive interface. They could be attached via any other interface and work the same way, say pci-e, or external pcie, or fiber etc.

But, it is the limitations of bios that requires they be attached as disk drives. Bios requires a disk drive type device to be able to boot from it, so other interfaces are not possible just yet. I'm still waiting for EFI to become the standard so we can get rid of bios.
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Offline Phaedrus2129

  • Posts: 1131
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #120 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 00:58:29 »
There are PCIe SSDs.
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Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #121 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 10:47:09 »
Quote from: Phaedrus2129
There are PCIe SSDs.


Yes and almost all of them have a pcie->sata conversion in order to show up as disk drives and be bootable (the point of my post..). Some notable exceptions like the Ocz enterprise lines (which are of course not bootable).
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Offline ch_123

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IDE SSDs for old computers
« Reply #122 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 15:24:26 »
On a somewhat unrelated note, I was surprised to discover that the four primary partitions per disk rule with the x86 BIOS is enforced even on Itanium machines with EFI...
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