One more Filco victim

[woody]

Guys/gals in this forum, I officially hate you now! :biggrin:

Reading through this forum, I bit the bullet and placed an order for Filco Tenkeyless (MX blue) and Kensigton Slimblade trackball. Until they show up and I could actually test them, I decided to share my humble opinion so far. No flamewar intentions, though.

I've been looking on what's available on the keyboard market for quite some time now. The main reason being that since using membrane keyboards for the last 10 years, I feel constantly aggravated by the errors I make, up to the (probably illusory) degree of being distracted and less productive/concentrated. Before that I was using mechanical switch keyboards for 15+ years and such thoughts never occured.

Just for experiment, few months ago I got G84-4100 (ML) as a secondary keyboard. Despite the more cramped layout, I found myself being quite satisfied with it, and the difference with membranes began to bug me more and more.

I have evaluated as specs/pictures some models (almost none available in my country), and I thought I'd share my feelings.

Switch types

Buckling spring - used such before, good tactile feeling but the force required and the produced noise are not much to my liking. I wouldn't get used Model M, but maybe I'll eventually buy later some Unicomp to compare with the Filco.

Cherry ML - quite satisfied. Could type looong passwords with high speed, but the tactility is not enough and wouldn't want it for a daily keyboard.

Cherry MX blue - waiting for the Filco to try them out. :nod:

Keyboards

Filco Tenkeyless - best layout so far. I hope it turns out a good  buy.

G84-4100 - bit cramped, but more useful than I first thought. I got the one without Windows keys and the spacebar is ok. The build quality could use some more attention, but most of all I'm stumbled by the small nubs on the keycaps, leftovers from the mold process. If you look at the keyboard from above, you should know what I mean.

G84-4400 - ML type, but this is a blasphemy - "Fn" on the left of "Ctrl". Over my dead body.

G84-5400 / G84-5500 - ML type. Interesting compact offerings, but with Windows keys only.

G80-1800 / G80-11900 - interesting, but MX black only.

G80-3000LSCxx - MX blue. Could try as a last resort if the Filco does not live to my expectations.

DAS keyboard - got the feeling Filco is similar but slightly better. At least the keyboard controller is better.

Random fancy keyboards - I don't need fancy, I want simple and robust keyboard.


All in all, most of the current offerings fail here and there, and the Filco Tenkeyless with MX blue seems (on paper) to be the best choice for me. Whether that's actually true - time will tell.

Thanks for great forum! (and the funny pictures by certain someone)

[washuai]

What about buckling spring noise do you dislike?  Did you compare blue audio to buckling springs to browns?  
What are your expectations of the plate mounted blue Filcos?  

Are browns out, because you are worried they won't be tactile enough or because you prefer clicky, even though you don't like the noise of buckling springs?

I hope the blues do it for you.  Let us know, either way.

[lmnop]

I don't know about the controller Filco uses being better. I do know people are buying a Das Model S literally everyday for only $100. a OCN member voided his warranty with Metadot and they are sending him a refurbished model that has been checked for squeaky stabilizers. Metadot is making it hard not to like them.

what is with Diatec? no more Otaku models? no more Keycaps?

[washuai]

Not everyone qualifies for a student discount, so for me DAS isn't cheaper.
DAS doesn't have a tenkeyless silent model.  
I still prefer Matte and smaller bezel.
For me it is still Filco over DAS.

DAS seems to have solved their QC issues.  They have the better return policy.  They have good customer service.  They still have blank keys and laser > print and coat.  They're definitely a solid alternative for those in the market for a full size board.

Still, the lower quality, but additionally cheaper cherry blues of Addesso and Razer are nipping at their heels.

[lmnop]

Not everyone qualifies for a student discount, so for me DAS isn't cheaper.
DAS doesn't have a tenkeyless silent model.  
I still prefer Matte and smaller bezel.
For me it is still Filco over DAS.

DAS seems to have solved their QC issues.  They have the better return policy.  They have good customer service.  They still have blank keys and laser > print and coat.  They're definitely a solid alternative for those in the market for a full size board.

Still, the lower quality, but additonally cheaper cherry blues of Addesso and Razer are nipping at their heels.

it's not a student discount. it's a back to school promotion. everybody gets 24% off and free shipping, it ended yesterday.

agreed.

[lmnop]

24% discount + free shipping
(ground only - US residents only) on all 4 Das Keyboard models

Hurry, the promotion ends on August 31, 2010!



Step 1: Jot down this coupon code: BTSS2010 - you will need it in the "Payment page" section to complete the purchase

Step 2: Choose a Das Keyboard product

Step 3: Enter the coupon code in the shopping cart.

Canadians and Europeans pay far less for the Das Model S .

[lmnop]

[clickclack]

Guys/gals in this forum, I officially hate you now! :biggrin:

Welcome to geekhack, haahaa =)

Filco Tenkeyless - best layout so far. I hope it turns out a good  buy.
... and the Filco Tenkeyless with MX blue seems (on paper) to be the best choice for me. Whether that's actually true - time will tell.
...Thanks for great forum! (and the funny pictures by certain someone)

That Filco is a really great board, you won't be dissapointed, but if for some odd reason you are there are plenty who would gladly take it off your hands

There are no funny pics here, move along...
... just actual reenactments using a popular brand of building blocks. We are a serious forum here people!

[lmnop]

yeah yeah go make keycaps

[woody]

What about buckling spring noise do you dislike?  Did you compare blue audio to buckling springs to browns?  
What are your expectations of the plate mounted blue Filcos?  

Are browns out, because you are worried they won't be tactile enough or because you prefer clicky, even though you don't like the noise of buckling springs?

I hope the blues do it for you.  Let us know, either way.

Good questions. My memory is very vague now, but IIRC the BS pitch sounded to me too metallic. That could be false memory, so when I decide to go through customs hell and obtain Unicomp, I might do proper comparison. As to blue sound - not sure I have heard it yet, same goes for browns. There is some old favourite clicky keyboard of mine, although it's far away from me for years. In a month or so I'll fetch it, it was bought in 1993 and used it until 2000. Very curious what the switches were. What I have now is just the ML of G84-4100, and being short-travel doesn't mean noiseless.

I expect the metal plate of the Filco to eventually resonate and enhance certain frequencies, with respect to audio. This could be good or bad, depending on the final audible clicking and noise. :heh:

On your last question - browns are out (so far ...) because I was not sure they pass the tactility threshold that I like, and yes, I like clicky. That may change though, one never knows. If it was the browns, I'd have definitely gone with the light (beige??) Filco ... I guess they will finally release light colour with MX blues. Oh, btw, the white G84-4100 with lasered caps looks perfect. I could make a snapshot soon.


In a better Universe, I'd had the chance to play with each keyboard and compare/choose. Unlike what is actually happening now - spending serious cash on something based on assumptions. :scared: Thousands of forums and reviews don't solve the problem, since subjectiveness plays a major role. But at least GH has answered many of the questions I had, for which I'm very thankful.


Talking with a friend about keyboards, we kinda invented the "keyboard fetishism" diagnose, which I might suffer. At least I'm not alone.

[woody]

I think he is thinking of the old controller on the Das 3, not the S.

Probably guilty.

Of course I don't give a rat's ass about pressing more keys than fingers but that's a OT discussion.

N=10 is a good value of N.
________
vaporizer

[washuai]

Well, the ping noise of Buckling springs is definitely metallic, so vague or not, you're probably remembering the right thing.  
Sounds like if the blues don't work out, then you should try some good complicated ALPS next, unless someone comes out with a new clicky keyboard.  Then again, the click in alps involves metal . .

I'd had some vague/minor/old experiences with Buckling Spring, Apple II Alps, Dell quiet key alps & DAS blue cherries, before I bought my first mechanical keyboard.  I agree it is a bit nerve wracking buying something that expensive without a test drive.  
Even though cherry browns seemed like the right thing, I just wasn't sure, until I finally got my hand on my board.  Thankfully there was good information here, so I knew they weren't going to be as quiet as I wanted, but livable, etc.
When I finally get a Topre, I'm gonna be worried, until I got my mitts on it, too.

[woody]

The mechanical keyboards I used long ago were of different types (most non-PC) and I wasn't then into opening and checking what's inside. No trace of internet, too. I remember repairing a button with attached magnet and a fixed reed-contact in the base - they had sweet acoustic feedback.

This time my interest goes bit deeper, so it's like starting with a blank database. After the MX blue I'd like to try MX brown and current BS offering from Unicomp ... smells like more expenses. On the other hand, waiting bit more could result in more interesting models available (like Filco Tenkeyless without Windows buttons, hahaha).
________
volcano vaporizer

[washuai]

Yea, the fact Razer, iOne, ThermalTake, etc. are jumping is definitely encouraging.  I think the blues are a good place to start, if you like clicky and are down with the audio samples.
As some people say, especially on geekhack:

[MissileMike]

I have 25 keyboards, most mechanical, and my filcos are the ones I use on my main computers.  You can't appreciate the quality until you try one.

[keyboardlover]

I have 25 keyboards, most mechanical, and my filcos are the ones I use on my main computers.  You can't appreciate the quality until you try one.

I suspect that if Realforce keyboards were priced around $165 or so that they would sell just as well.

[woody]

Filco Tenkeyless MX Blue arrived along with Filco wrist pad. Nice colourful retail boxes.

The keyboard makes instant impression of good build quality and has overall great look, although I'd really appreciate a standard white, light grey or beige colour scheme similar to the MX brown version. The LEDs are green and properly bright. Initial cons is that the cable is bit short for my setup, half a meter more would've been better. Is there a global trend of reducing the keyboard cables due to USB hubs in monitors/etc? I still use PS2 for various reasons (NKRO not being one of them).

First bonus - included dust cover. Props to Diatec for this! Haven't got one included since 1993.

Layout - great. Upon looking at photos in this forum, I had just realised it's the IBM Mini layout. Again props to Diatec for keeping the good legacy. This would be also beneficial when I get other Mini-like keyboards.

MX blue are fun to type on and surprisingly louder-than-expected to me. I first need to gather hundred or so hours on it to have opinion on ergonomy.

The leather wrist pad is not as high as expected, but still too early for opinion. Feels great so far.

Overall - surprised by the Diatec products! I hope the satisfaction will remain with time. Regardless, seems I'll go the route and get Filco Tenkeyless MX Brown soon. Did I say I hate the people in this forum? Oh, and one Unicomp is on the radar, too.

[MissileMike]

I am right there with you, woody.  Since joining this forum, I have bought 2 filcos, 1 cherry pos, and 1 unicomp.

My love for Cherry Brown and Buckling Springs knows no bounds.

[Ekaros]

Only two things I have after a day of use to blame, first is quality of USB->PS/2 adapter and other is missing absolutely all features... Other than that it's very solid board.

[keyboardlover]

One more Filco victim here too

Ordered a tenkeyless cherry brown from a fellow geekhacker...

[Ekaros]

I realy have to start to agree that this (discussion)board is EVIL!

[joker]

I realy have to start to agree that this board is EVIL!

indeed... it is. :evil: