How long to get used to new keyboard?

[frvrngn]

Hey everyone, new member here but have been a long time lurker.  This forum has been great for someone like me who was looking to get back into a mechanical keyboard.

A little background on what I have gone through...

Typed on clicky keyboards way back when I did not know the difference.  No idea what they were, or even a brand.  I worked at a bank for a while doing a ton of ten key data entry and typing and found that I loved their keyboards better than my home setup.  I did know why at the time.

Progressed on to regular membrane keyboards that came free with new PC's and just as cheap replacements.  I hated them all after a couple of months.  They felt mushy, the travel was too long and inconsistent, and I typed horribly on them.  Still, I did not know any better and just kept replacing them when they got mushy.

I got a laptop and found I liked the low travel keys (did know a thing about scissor switches, or any switches still at this point).  Bought some keyboards that had low travel keys and they did well for a while.  

Got a new laptop with chicklet keys (Sony) and I liked them after a while of typing.  Ended up buying the Apple aluminum full size keyboard, as that was the closest I could find that felt and looked the same.  I was typing on that for over a year now.

Present day - I was getting frustrated with my Apple keyboard.  I was making more typos and I was doing more typing for work and the keyboard just was not feeling good anymore.  I did not like the flatness of it and it felt like my fingers were not working properly on it, if that makes sense.  It was then that I really started to research keyboards and found here and OCN.  What an eye opener!  

So that leads me to my current keyboard - I bought an Adesso MKB-135B.  I wanted to try Cherry switches, I wanted to try Blue's, and that keyboard seemed like the least expensive way to try them to see if I even like this style keyboard.  I have had it for about a week now.  I type daily for several hours along with some ten key work.  I do not code or anything.  Strictly regular typing.  No gaming either.

I seemed to have developed a love/hate relationship already.  When I first got it, I loved it.  The feedback felt great, I could type fast with what seemed like fewer typos and it was just nice to use.  After a week, now I am not so sure!  It seems like it needs a ton more pressure to use than the Apple.  I dont know if it is just the travel being longer, or what it is but I find my fingers and wrists tiring out much faster now.  I am also making a ton more typos due to that.  I have been trying to not bottom out the keys so much, and just using the lovely little bump as my guide, but that is not going well.  It seems that sometimes I can fly along doing that, and others like right now where I cant seem to get consistent enough.  I am by know means a speed typer, I think I avg around 65-70 wpm with occasional speed bursts.  It has been forever since I tried a typing test though and I know I type a lot faster now then I had.

So what kind of learning curve is there to a new keyboard?  I want to give it at least a couple weeks, but if the tiredness and typos keep up I may need to cut that short.  I have 45 days to try out the Adesso.  I will say as nice as the tactile feedback is, the keys seem rather loose and "wobbly".  If I dont get a dead center strike to the keys it feels like a lot of that lovely feedback is lost.  I dont know if that is normal or not.  Originally I as going to buy a Das Professional S, as I can get a discount.  Would that be much different than this Adesso?  I was also going to get a Unicomp spacesaver to try out BS.  I dont know if that would be worse for tiring me out since the charts show BS have a higher force needed than the Blues.  Plus the sound of the Blues is already driving my wife nutty so I know the BS would really do it!  I do think I need to change my typing style a little.  I was so used to the flat Apple, that my wrists got lazy and I would just rest them on the desk.  I definitely can not do that with the taller Adesso so either need a wrist rest or change my desk layout.

So any feedback?  Sorry for the long first post...  I do like to type!

[ch_123]

I think Topre may be the way to go. Lowest force (Cherry Brown switches are stiffer than they claim to be), quiet, and they don't have some of the inconsistency associated with Cherry switches.

You aren't going to get the same sharp feedback that you'd get from the Blue switches, but it's better than the feedback of the Brown switches which is practically non-existent.

[washuai]

Word the one - typing faster than before can cause fatigue (even when you don't bottom out).  It is definitely a case of your muscles aren't used to it.  

Also, you sound like you're already aware that you need to watch your ergonomics and form.  If you're used to resting your wrists and aren't going to hover, then you might want to get that wrist rest.

I went from flat silicone (which is even flatter than filco/cherry) and I've adjusted my tray to tilt the cherry back, so that the keys are more flat across, which works for me.  Ergonomics are specific to each person, so you should solve that first.

In summary, definitely get your ergonomics in order and it can take a month to acclimate.  Think of adjusting to a new keyboard, like adjusting to a new exercise routine.

[frvrngn]

Thanks for the feedback!  And thanks ripster for those links.  I think I have to agree with the first one.  After a long session on the Apple, it feels like you are banging on it more than just pressing the keys smoothly.  

I do think one change I am still getting used to is the longer travel.  The Apple has almost no travel vs. the Adesso so my fingers are physically moving more.  Add in the bad ergonomics as washuai pointed out and I am asking for more trouble.  I will try a wrist rest first, and then maybe try to go back to hovering.  I know that is "correct", but my current desk layout makes that difficult.

I will give the keyboard a solid few weeks.  I am liking the fact that there are so many choices out there.  I just wish they were cheaper!  Would love to try a Topre out, but no way that will fly on my expense report or my wife!  I think I might start watching the classifieds here more closely and maybe pick up a couple of options down the road to try out.

[joker]

welcome frvrngn!

while reading your post I found my thoughts about my first mechanical keyboard. I had a Logitech scissor switch before my current DasKeyboard S ultimate with cherry blues.
After two weeks of typing, I am not 100% satisfied with the board - but when I compare it from time to time with the logitech which I have still here in my office - I recognize that the Das is much better in every aspect.

If I could, I would buy a HHKB pro2 .. but 300 Euros for a keyboard is a little bit insane (and without the chance to try it before buying)...

edit: I also use a palm rest.. I think it is somewhat more comfortable ...

[Superfluous Parentheses]

I think Topre may be the way to go. Lowest force (Cherry Brown switches are stiffer than they claim to be), quiet, and they don't have some of the inconsistency associated with Cherry switches.

You aren't going to get the same sharp feedback that you'd get from the Blue switches, but it's better than the feedback of the Brown switches which is practically non-existent.

I've now been typing on my HHKB Pro 2 with Topre switches for slightly less than a week, and "[not] the same sharp feedback" is correct. These things are very light and quite precise, but you really have to pay attention to make out the activation point. I find it hard to type lightly on them and still be *sure*. I'm expecting to get used to it, but it might take another two weeks or so.

On the other hand, the Model M I used before took me over a month just to get my finger strength up

To the OP: I'd say, if it's not immediately annoying, give it a month at least. You may also like the Cherry Brown (or, indeed, Topre) switches more than Blues.

EDIT: frvrngn, if you're in the neighbourhood of the Netherlands, we are planning another get-together where we can try some 'boards. No date or place has been set, yet, though.

[didjamatic]

I hated Topres at first, then liked them after a few days.  A few weeks later I was losing my ability to type accurately with them so i went to cherry browns and blues.  I tend to get sloppy whenever i stay on one switch for too long for some reason.  I've gone back to Topres periodically but have to keep rotating so I use mostly only mechanicals.

SuperP... If you really decide you don't care for it, I have lots to trade/paypal if it's white.

[Superfluous Parentheses]

SuperP... If you really decide you don't care for it, I have lots to trade/paypal if it's white.

It's ash with back legends. I don't think I'll be getting rid of it anytime soon though; the layout is just about perfect for me, and I really expect to get used to/accurate with the switch feel soon.

[nathanscribe]

I used to just use whatever rubbish came free, like mentioned in the OP... then 2 or 3 years ago I dug out an old British Telecom board with switchable AT/XT/MT (?) and with the addition of a 5-pin DIN to PS/2 it worked perfectly.  Turns out it has Cherry black switches.  It was such an improvement on the squishy freebies I didn't think any more of it, and just enjoyed typing, but since picking up a Model M recently the BT feels really awkward.  I've been on the M a few hours since cleaning it, and so far, so good.

I'm going to replace my Mac's Apple keyboard (previous generation, white keys/clear body) as I've always felt it too clumsy, and will probably go Unicomp.  If I was after another regular Windows board, I reckon I'd try something with Cherry blue to see how the click feels.  The linear blacks feel like more work than the M to me, but whether it's just because it's a straight line or not I don't know.

Keyboards.  Is there nothing a man cannot geek about?

[Arc'xer]

The linear blacks feel like more work than the M to me, but whether it's just because it's a straight line or not I don't know.

It's not a straight line, linear designation is more towards lacking tactility than being straight. It actually progresses subtly to a higher resistance. Hence MX black starting off at 40g, actuating at 60g, and bottoming out at 80g.

Linear-progressive and the fact that the spring is short and thick.

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Cherry+switches+and+boards

Scroll down a bit and notice how different the spring is compare to blue/brown. Hell even the red switch is much thinner and it too is linear, so spring is key.

[nathanscribe]

Scroll down a bit and notice how different the spring is compare to blue/brown. Hell even the red switch is much thinner and it too is linear, so spring is key.

Interesting.  I wonder also if it's because the bottom of the action is basically just a thud against the base, unlike the M which has a kind of 'area' at the end that I don't have the terminology to describe...

[Arc'xer]

Interesting.  I wonder also if it's because the bottom of the action is basically just a thud against the base, unlike the M which has a kind of 'area' at the end that I don't have the terminology to describe...

Actuation is half-way for all of the MX-type switches although different switches have different tactile areas the many other dozens if not hundreds of mechanical switches have a variety of actuation points at different, millimeters.

But your correct in that the feeling is the end.

No tactility, means no sense of stopping earlier. It's why the linear are quite raved about for rapid key presses  or gaming, aside from the person ignoring a tactile point it also reduces any inconvenience a tactile curve might introduce like friction or as in the blues a large hysteresis i.e. the actuation and release points are not in the same area. Look at the graphs black/brown/red nearly dead center, while blues are far and wide apart.  

It's why the tactile point gives you a false sense of bottoming out(well for me, it sometimes feels that way). Your not, your just being told "Hey man; you actuated the switch, stop pushing in". Instead of smacking into the bottom with linear.