Author Topic: Which mechanical Keyboard? Filco / Deck (Read 29423 times)

d4rkr1d3r · « **on:** Thu, 02 September 2010, 07:33:58 »

Hello together :peace:

I'm looking for the best mechanical Keyboard for me, which is no easy thing because I never had one and there's no possibility to try one.
So I need some Help.

I've read a lot about these keyboards and switches now and got two favourites:

Deck Legend (tactile) and the Filco Majestouch FKBN105M/GRB

As you see, I choose tactile and non clicky switches (mx-browns and whites) because they should be the best compromise between gaming and writing.

Deck Legend:
+ excellent quality
+ backlit keys (I often game without light)
+ doubleshot keys
+ cherry mx-clears (heard that the browns might have too weak springs)
- US-layout (I'm german so excuse my english but I think i could get used to the US-layout)

Filco Majestouch:
+ GER-layout
+ nice layout
+ heard of many positive experiences
- pad printed keycaps which quickly become glossy (maybe I could get fitting (GER-Layout) doubleshot caps)
- no backlit (I may build a little LED lamp shining on top of the Keyboard)
- not sure about the browns' springs strengh

Thx 4 helping :biggrin:

WhiteRice · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 02 September 2010, 08:50:46 »

I would recommended the Filco. Based solely on this.

Sticking with a GER layout won't alienate you from the rest of the keyboards you'll probably come into contact with.

washuai · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 02:59:39 »

Clears versus browns - Odds are what you're typing on currently is heavier than browns, but lighter than clears. If a switch is too light, you can still use the board as much as you please, but if it is too heavy, you're forced to quit using it, or risk injury.

You should see if you can test touch a keyboard with cherry blacks (cherry POS) or steelseries. If those feel too heavy, then you know to steer clear of clears.
Cherry Corp is in Germany, isn't it?

Layout is really important. It can have a major impact on your typing speed, comfort, etc. for the long term. I myself am fairly adaptable. I know that most people would avoid two of the three following boards layout wise, while I can go between them without issue:

G80-8200:

and US Filco.

It does take me a week though to deal with a new layout. To be honest, that roll up layout is definitely the worst of the three for me. Some people discover that layout isn't as big of an issue and others confirm it, but a new layout takes time. Do you have the time? Are you really willing to pay more for a layout you like less?

This brings me to my next point - what's the return policies for these? Deck in the US you can return for a full refund, before thirty days have passed. Get the one with the better return policy. If you learn you love it, then you're done. If you discover it isn't for you, then you can return it and get the other board.

LEDs - 1 to 2 booklights converted as keyboard lights is cheaper than the LED board, yes? Lookers are most often slower than touchers both for gaming and for typing, so do you really want to pay more for a function that hinders progress?

In the long run, key caps is a nitpicking thing, so I wouldn't worry about this. If you hunt and peck, permanent legends are great; no one wants the key to wear away to reveal blinding backlights and aesthetically cheap is annoying. Functionally, it doesn't make a large difference. Sure, my DS Geekhack has better key feel than the laser cherry, which feels better than my blank Filcos. I actually like the Filco texture best, but I used to pet the silicone board, so I just like soft and smooth, but not slippery keys. Bottom line - the key caps differences don't make any difference in my typing speed or accuracy.

I realize I didn't say get this or get that. They're both good boards, with different strengths and weaknesses. Overall, you will prioritize features and figure it out. Truth is, the harder the choice is, the higher the odds, you'll be happy, whichever way you go.

lmnop · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 05:26:38 »

TG3 has a distributor in Germany called ActiveKey you can buy a Deck Legend from them.

getdigital carries the Das Model S in any layout. they also carry the Filco Majestouch but it's more expensive and only comes in US layout.

Jalal · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 08:47:45 »

Note that Activekey sells the Déck 82 fire with german layout for 99€ + 7€ shipping for you. Also the Déck 82 gold in german layout, but for 133€.
I also think this german layout does not have the usual "<>|" key but a bigger shift key instead. I am pretty sure i have seen a picture of it somewhere.

washuai · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:13:14 »

True, flatness is a larger issue in a key, when the flat surface doesn't flex (like silicone). I haven't heard of flatness alone hampering typing, just not feeling as nice. The flatness alone isn't why apple chicklets are evil or why some scissors can be nice, but still don't cut the mustard. Although, better scissors tend to not be perfectly flat.

washuai · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:23:25 »

Yes, though even with the 1337 LEDs, some of them have died (deck forum) on their users. The amount of Deck users with a few failing LEDs would be higher with cheaper LEDs. Also, 1337 gamers glow their boards at full brightness all day, in addition to all night.
This reminds me of that one review where some guy was claiming there still doesn't exist a bright enough board for him and every LED board on the market is too dim. I seriously don't even think that he knows about backlit mechs.

washuai · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 13:42:28 »

Well, actually my point is you need the higher brightness levels in sunlight, versus darkness. I actually get a backlit ClickClack ice/glacial board, that thing is going to take blinding to new levels, so the glass in my house is even more susceptible to stoning.

clickclack · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 16:17:28 »

Ouch! Though pretty funny =P

I would personally go with the Filco over the Deck mostly for the keys and layout. The flatness to the Deck bothers me just a little as with the layout.

But I think in this case this quote is really apropos-

Quote from: washuai;219788

Truth is, the harder the choice is, the higher the odds, you'll be happy, whichever way you go.

I don't know if that is really true, but it sounds good to me! It's not like you are choosing between a crappy board and a great one.

As a little side note about lighting, I find that if you put some marker keys (like a white key on a black keyed board) you can really find it in the dark quite easily! Heck the difference in color does not even have to be that great to stand out in the dark, you might be surprised.

=)

washuai · « **Reply #9 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 16:57:25 »

Well yes, you can't apply my statement to every situation, the choices need to be good choices in the first place. We're not choosing between going to jail, paying a large fine or becoming somebody's coerced booby here, which leads to some potential misery any way you look at it.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #10 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 17:01:06 »

Quote from: lmnop;219798

getdigital carries the Das Model S in any layout. they also carry the Filco Majestouch but it's more expensive and only comes in US layout.

Quote from: Jalal;219813

Note that Activekey sells the Déck 82 fire with german layout for 99€ + 7€ shipping for you.

First I like to say tanks for your answers, I am still not sure but have some more opinions...

getdigital.de has tho filco only in US-Layout, i called them and they will not get it until the next half year in Ger-layout... In UK @ keyboardco.com they have the Filco with Ger layout...
Funny that I have to buy a german keyboard in UK...

The Deck 82 is 82 Key only (wow who would expect this? xD) and I really want a full board (legend / filco). I also found out that the deck 82 is only available with mx blacks...

Maybe I will buy both boards... But first I have to get money and buy one...

EDIT: I think, I don't really need backlight; for the Filco I could get fluorescent WASD keys they should be enough to game in the dark... I don't look @ the KB while gaming but need to find wasd Keys e.g. fast...

lmnop · « **Reply #11 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 17:39:41 »

I used to think the Deck keycaps were flat to cut cost on profiling but sculpted keycaps have no advantage they act as a guide for your fingers like nibs. Adam at Deck has answered a lot of engineering questions and so far everything has been designed for a specific reason. maybe they are flat so your fingers are not constantly climbing and dropping?

woody · « **Reply #12 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:09:15 »

Quote from: d4rkr1d3r;219957

I think, I don't really need backlight; for the Filco I could get fluorescent WASD keys they should be enough to game in the dark... I don't look @ the KB while gaming but need to find wasd Keys e.g. fast...

You'd better not be gaming (or whatever) in the dark if you have plans to use your eyesight some years later. As to finding quickly the WASD - you don't have to look them up at all, just practice some more.
________
Mazda G4A-EL transmission

lmnop · « **Reply #13 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:16:55 »

it's pretty that is a good enough excuse

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #14 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 18:28:32 »

Quote from: woody;219975

You'd better not be gaming (or whatever) in the dark if you have plans to use your eyesight some years later.

I already have eyesight... wich I only use when driving a car...^^

Jalal · « **Reply #15 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 19:30:39 »

Quote from: d4rkr1d3r;219957

The Deck 82 is 82 Key only (wow who would expect this? xD) and I really want a full board (legend / filco). I also found out that the deck 82 is only available with mx blacks...

Oh no blacks. Sorry, didn't read your first post properly.

EverythingIBM · « **Reply #16 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 19:45:15 »

Quote from: woody;219975

You'd better not be gaming (or whatever) in the dark if you have plans to use your eyesight some years later. As to finding quickly the WASD - you don't have to look them up at all, just practice some more.

Quote

AND DON'T SIT TOO CLOSE IN FRONT OF THE TV YOUNG MAN!

clickclack · « **Reply #17 on:** Sat, 04 September 2010, 21:56:21 »

Quote from: lmnop;219967

I used to think the Deck keycaps were flat to cut cost on profiling but sculpted keycaps have no advantage they act as a guide for your fingers like nibs. Adam at Deck has answered a lot of engineering questions and so far everything has been designed for a specific reason. maybe they are flat so your fingers are not constantly climbing and dropping?

I thought they were just carried over from the TG3's with just a different font. As an odd side note, I really liked the font on the TG3, very bold and clear. =)

TheSoundofTyping · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun, 05 September 2010, 07:46:31 »

OP, Cherry browns are by no means too "weak" for gaming. I think they're perfect for gaming, and I do a lot of it. I think the tactility of the browns over the blacks is better from a gaming point of view IF you're the kind of typist that doesn't bottom out every key stroke during gaming (like me) because you'll feel exactly when the button has activated; perfect for double-taps or multiple presses.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 09:15:05 »

Sup all,

I'm in a similar predicament right nah.

Basically I am sick and tired of all the rubberdomes, particularly my recently purchased Sidewinder X4 which has a freakishly long and displaced space bar...

So I thought I give it a go and try out a mechanical one. I was close to buying a standard Cherry (G80-3000 e.g.) but I do like my backlit keyboards. Not that I need that, but I sure do enjoy it. So if I pay 100 bucks upward for a freakin keyboard (of which's quality I cannot convince myself until I order it and hold it in my hands), then I don't think I should miss out on any amenities...

Upon searching the "interweb", including coming by here several times, I stumbled upon that "no-bull**** xcept my crazy bright LED and crazy looking frame" Deck 82 keyboard. I first frowned at the price. Then I was pissed that they didn't have the Legend with GER layout. Then shortly after, in another forum where I'm active (computerbase, german forum), a representative of ActiveKey opened a thread, trying to gauge the interest in a GER layout Deck Legend for that hefty price. Just to see, if it is worth it to start production apparently. Sie Germans failed miserably in showing their interest and discussed for pages what makes a Deck better than a plastic-bomber G11/g15/G1m4g Logitech. Finally ActiveKey stomped in the prospect of a Legend with GER layout for good as it seems.

Then I finally warmed up to the idea of owning a 82 Deck with german layout. But lo and behold: The only 82 Deck available in German layout is currently the fire (red) one, which in all honestly looks totally weird when the LEDs are off (and red just doesn't fit "anywhere"). Probably the reason why it has been discontinued.
I actually got a great price offer on the Blue Deck 82 but they apparently don't have it and now I am waiting for a day already for an answer on when I could possibly get it.

Mechanical keyboards with some features (media keys, etc.) or backlit AND have GER layout are frikking impossible to find here. That market segment is dead dead dead. And we are Germany for christ's sake. Not France or Italy!

And what do they give us instead? That fuc*ing Razer "BlackWidow", daaaaamn.

I personally hope that ActiveKey sends me a mail tomorrow or on monday saying the 82 Deck blue with GER layout are available again. Expensive as they are, I would take that bit** home immediately

If you really read through this keyboard-novel until the end, you may ask yourself: "Why is this guy posting here?"
Excellent question. Because there is one alternative and even though I saw info on it before on this forum, too, I am not sure what to make of it.

The iOne x-Armor u9BL. It will be available with GER layout around november. I am seriously considering it as well and may order it, even if I finally get the Deck. Price is good, amenities aplenty, keycaps may be an issue (definitely not as good as the double shots) and overall quality I cannot say.

Maybe that's also an alternative for the OP? Either way I'd like to know what u guys think about iOne in general and the x-Armor u9BL. What irritates me, is that in so many forums when I read about mechanical keyboards, people always mention the DASkeyboard, Filco, Deck and of course Cherry. While the Deck pops out, at least being backlit. But no one ever mentiones the iOne Scorpius or x-Armor..... por qué? I mean, why's that?

itlnstln · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 10:13:16 »

That'll be a shame, too. Deck has some quality gear, even if it's a little ugly IMO.

wfaulk · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 10:20:05 »

Isn't Deck the manufacturer that makes the flat profile keyboards? I'd be sure you're okay with that before getting one of those. A flat keyboard is the thing that pushed me (back) over the edge to expensive keyboards. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be with an expensive flat keyboard.

washuai · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 10:21:39 »

iOne is newer to the mechanical game and it is harder to get their boards. Word is the BlackWidow is an iOne, instead of costar like Filco/DAS. This is why no one mentions it.

According to surveys blue may be more popular the world over. Hell, I have a blue/black computer set up. That doesn't mean there's no place for red. I often get frustrated, when I see something I wish came in blue, instead of red, but I do understand.
Red and green LEDs are actually easier on eyes, than blue, white & yellow. TG3 specializes in these backlits for emergency vehicles, which is why they have so much red.
Personally, if I was gonna build a new box, I'd want to go green and that's a lot harder to find than blue or red.
Yes, if you have a compact board, no reason not to try out a full size board later. If what's available now is the Déck, in blue that you like. Plus, once you have the Deck, you can judge the others against it. Also, we're talking about different switch types. So do you want linear or tactile and clicky? Getting both is good way to really know. Odds are, you'll find, since they're so different that both boards will better benefit different uses.

Deck is an expensive keyboard. I personally like flat and the slope on the cherry bothers me more than the slope on the Filco, but I tend to be in the minority on things like that.

Jalal · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 11:47:33 »

The gold has the same issue: https://www.deckkeyboards.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=677

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 18:17:11 »

I thought all Deck 82s only have the 6 key rollover since they all come with a USB instead of PS/2 connector? Now u telling me that the gold and red version have even less than that ?!?!? Like, wtf... Is anything other than green+blue a code in US hardware manufacturing for "crap version" ?

I was already confused why in the hell they offer red and yellow cheaper than blue and green, while it's the same friggin keyboard. But Ripster said already, Decks price structure is all ****ed up anyway and I simply assumed the "blue and green are just more popular colors"-stance....

Anywho, I will stay in touch with ActiveKey, let's see what they say monday about the blue. I could get it for around 170 Dolares with GER layout, which is kinda "cheap" considering, they normally retail for round 210 cash money round nah. I was actually kinda feeling that I could get my hands on a dying breed of kickass keyboard tech here, so I was really looking forward to close the deal, now that I decided to pay that much for a board... Fingers crossed

About iOne:

Hm, still not sure bout them. If they are as good as anyone (I knew that the x-Armor prolly kicks the razer squaw in the nuts) and ActiveKey continues to stonewall me because they already realized internally that the Deck brand is doomed and don't really want to produce anything no more, then I might just wait for the x-Armor to be released here with German layout in November.

Particularly considering, I was already in touch with the iOne subsidiary in Germany and got some primo price offers for the x-Armor. Particularly if I order bulk.

About what I prefer in terms of switches:
How the hell do I know. I live in a desert of mechanical keyboards... Well technically I live in the land of Cherry.... But do they look like they display their mechs in stores? nuuhooooooohhhh....
So I never even laid hand on one. From reading, I'd say I prolly prefer linear blacks over tactile blues, bar the option of going for browns (at least for backlit mechs)...

Let me get that Deck first and see how I likes it. Everything else shall be decided after that.

Thx for ur infos though peeps! A well of knowledge here. I would have almost compromised for the red 82 deck. Now I know it's prolly good to wait for the blue.

Kind regards,

Senor_Cartmenez

/Edit:

Fun fact about iOne in Europe: I was talking to them about purchasing their mech boards for reselling. While talking price, lead times, etc., the BlackWidow was announced at Gamescom in Germany (dunno if it was announced elsewhere earlier, first I heard of it tho, fits the timing). When I heard bout that, I told my iOne contact that it may be tough to start compete against a brand like Razer which had just announced their own mech board which looked oddly familiar to the x-armor u9BL. My hope was to push the price a little. The answer I got was a bit strange. Now that I know iOne probably produces the BlackWidow, it kinda makes sense though. Until I received an answer to that mail, we were all very business like and serious. The answer from my contact was kinda loosey goosey though say stuff like "As a salesperson, I should tell you that it makes sense to compete with Razor :-)" (yes, the contact really used a smiley in a business mail

). Was kind of a hopeless tone in terms of making a deal. What I wonder is, if they sold their concept to Razer, why do they bother to sitll bring it out in Europe under their own name, while they have such weak distribution and aren't that much cheaper?
Kinda get the feeling that the peripherals market is dominated by behemoths like Logitech+Cherry who just keep playing their oldschool game (one more successful than the other, while Cherry owns all those patents). On the other side you have new company's like Roccat. Razer and Steelseries, who recognized a niche in the market and fill it with proper management and skilled marketing. In between you have a lot of companies that seem to be kinda going nowhere, being a bit clueless. Deck and iOne seem to fit that bill, just like the Saiteks and RaptorGaming duds...

lmnop · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 18:35:59 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;221802

I thought all Deck 82s only have the 6 key rollover since they all come with a USB instead of PS/2 connector? Now u telling me that the gold and red version have even less than that ?!?!? Like, wtf... Is anything other than green+blue a code in US hardware manufacturing for "crap version" ?

I was already confused why in the hell they offer red and yellow cheaper than blue and green, while it's the same friggin keyboard. But Ripster said already, Decks price structure is all ****ed up anyway and I simply assumed the "blue and green are just more popular colors"-stance....

Anywho, I will stay in touch with ActiveKey, let's see what they say monday about the blue. I could get it for around 170 Dolares with GER layout, which is kinda "cheap" considering, they normally retail for round 210 cash money round nah. I was actually kinda feeling that I could get my hands on a dying breed of kickass keyboard tech here, so I was really looking forward to close the deal, now that I decided to pay that much for a board... Fingers crossed

About iOne:

Hm, still not sure bout them. If they are as good as anyone (I knew that the x-Armor prolly kicks the razer squaw in the nuts) and ActiveKey continues to stonewall me because they already realized internally that the Deck brand is doomed and don't really want to produce anything no more, then I might just wait for the x-Armor to be released here with German layout in November.

Particularly considering, I was already in touch with the iOne subsidiary in Germany and got some primo price offers for the x-Armor. Particularly if I order bulk.

About what I prefer in terms of switches:
How the hell do I know. I live in a desert of mechanical keyboards... Well technically I live in the land of Cherry.... But do they look like they display their mechs in stores? nuuhooooooohhhh....
So I never even laid hand on one. From reading, I'd say I prolly prefer linear blacks over tactile blues, bar the option of going for browns (at least for backlit mechs)...

Let me get that Deck first and see how I likes it. Everything else shall be decided after that.

Thx for ur infos though peeps! A well of knowledge here. I would have almost compromised for the red 82 deck. Now I know it's prolly good to wait for the blue.

Kind regards,

Senor_Cartmenez

it was a mistake. TG3 manufactured a large number of them before discovering the problem. it's been corrected.

the LED TG3 use are high quality. industrial grade rated for 20 years. you cannot walk into a electronics store to buy them. the reason the Deck Legend 105 and Deck 82 prices vary model to model is because some LED are more expensive than others.

when they were designing the Deck Legend 105 Toxic they planned on using another Green LED but it would of brought the cost up. I don't think they made the wrong decision.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 18:51:01 »

Do you know if the toxic Deck Legend is available with tactile switches? According to the Deck website there is only the Frost and the Ice version available with tactile (mx-clears) switches, but the ActiveKey assistant, I got on the phone, told me he would not be really sure but he thought all of the Deck Legend they sell in Europe, including the fire and toxic, were tactile.
I could recall in two weeks, if I want him to test it, but i need a new keyboard right now... -.-

lmnop · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 18:52:09 »

Deck Legend 105 Toxic only comes in Linear.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:00:09 »

Quote from: lmnop;221812

Deck Legend 105 Toxic only comes in Linear.

That's what I thought...
I'm not sure If I should wait for ActiveKey's answer or buy the Deck @ Performance-PCs. I most like the toxic (green) backlt but prefer tactile switches. So I'm still not really sure if I'll take the toxic or the frost one. The Filco I would probably buy aditionaly If there is enough money...

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:01:32 »

If I had any green peripherals I'd be all over the green 82.

As Washuai said though, green is tough to find and I have a DeathAdder which I really dig and which (here) is only available in blue (ok gold ["Guildwars" edition} and white, too).
My PC is actually orange/red, same as the lights on my screen and my Sidewinder X4 keyboard. The blue DeathAdder has been bothering me for a while now. Tried to but couldn't find that damn voodoo version, otherwise I probably would've bought the Fire Deck 82 already (which would've been problematic since I use QWE in my FPS layout).

But I really didn't know that different color LEDs have different prices, knew about the quality of the Deck LEDs tho. By now I checked some online stores and found that different colors indeed use different specs as well so I see the logic in price difference. Thx for the clarification.

/Edit

The peeps at ActiveKey aren't really all into the whole Deck thing it seems. I think they mostly deal with hospitals and such. The Decks probably gather lot's of dust over there, sadly nuff. @Darkrider did u also talk to that Giegold dude? He seems to be their sales guy but has to ask their main technician just about anything it seems...

lmnop · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:02:46 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;221802

/Edit:

Fun fact about iOne in Europe: I was talking to them about purchasing their mech boards for reselling. While talking price, lead times, etc., the BlackWidow was announced at Gamescom in Germany (dunno if it was announced elsewhere earlier, first I heard of it tho, fits the timing). When I heard bout that, I told my iOne contact that it may be tough to start compete against a brand like Razer which had just announced their own mech board which looked oddly familiar to the x-armor u9BL. My hope was to push the price a little. The answer I got was a bit strange. Now that I know iOne probably produces the BlackWidow, it kinda makes sense though. Until I received an answer to that mail, we were all very business like and serious. The answer from my contact was kinda loosey goosey though say stuff like "As a salesperson, I should tell you that it makes sense to compete with Razor :-)" (yes, the contact really used a smiley in a business mail ). Was kind of a hopeless tone in terms of making a deal. What I wonder is, if they sold their concept to Razer, why do they bother to sitll bring it out in Europe under their own name, while they have such weak distribution and aren't that much cheaper?
Kinda get the feeling that the peripherals market is dominated by behemoths like Logitech+Cherry who just keep playing their oldschool game (one more successful than the other, while Cherry owns all those patents). On the other side you have new company's like Roccat. Razer and Steelseries, who recognized a niche in the market and fill it with proper management and skilled marketing. In between you have a lot of companies that seem to be kinda going nowhere, being a bit clueless. Deck and iOne seem to fit that bill, just like the Saiteks and RaptorGaming duds...

this quote is from a FPSLabs review of the Deck 82 in 2007.

Quote

Wrap this all together with a warranty that even covers non-damaging modifications, and I would have to say that price is more than warranted. Like I mentioned earlier, the LEDs alone total to around $76 and if you add that to the top of the line Cherry MX switches that they use, it really makes you wonder why the SteelSeries 6G cost so much damn money. I mean after 82 Cherry switches, the LEDs, the PCB, steel plate, the housing, and the manufacturing costs, how much money is there actually to be made even at a large scale? According to our contact at Deck, there is actually very little profit involved. These keyboards are a part of their product line simply because they can be, and if people would like to invest in having the best of the best, they make it. If not, then go with something else. Their theory is that they aren’t around to make a killing in gaming, but they can make the best damn keyboard available to gamers.

honestly I don't think Deck cares about success.

Jalal · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:08:51 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;221802

Anywho, I will stay in touch with ActiveKey, let's see what they say monday about the blue. I could get it for around 170 Dolares with GER layout, which is kinda "cheap" considering, they normally retail for round 210 cash money round nah.

Wait, the only models they sell in german layout are the Deck 82 fire and gold. Or did you ask them and they told you something else?

Also 165€ is like 210 dollar, or did tehy gave you a reabate? The deck 82 is sold for 120$ in USA.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:15:33 »

I know Deck making the really "best" keyboards but I'm still not sure if I should take the toxic or the frost one...
I have to make a quick decision because my bord is dying quietly...

@ Jalal: I plan to order @ performance-pcs but i fear the taxes being too expensive...

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:21:35 »

they gave me a rebate, still way over the US price tho.
But what to do, they are the only source to get a German layout it seems. Although I didn't try to contact Deck directly. But I am positive they will just direct me towards ActiveKey...
And yes, u can have any of the colors in GER layout. Of course you can. I didn't understand as well, why they didn't offer them on their website. Now I am quite positive, that they are just trying to get rid of those reds and yellows by all means necessary, since they have an inferior built...
When I asked for a pic of the German key layout, they send me a pic of a blue 82 deck with GER layout. That's when I said I want one and they made me a decent offer. However when I ordered it, I got a response 2 days later that it's out of stock. Apparently they had a mixup in their inventory list. Now I am waiting for an answer on when I can get it.

@Imnop
I honestly think you are right with picking up this quote and saying Deck prolly doesn't really care bout success. And that may very well kill them in the end as Razer may well take away their lunch money a few months in a row and make Deck end up taking raw Broccoli to school before they stop taking food to school alltogether and start eating elsewhere

@darkrider
I would still consider ordering from Activekey, clueless and disinterested as they are, they are here at least... Don't forget that those bastards at the airport will most likely also charge u some hefty import duty, just cause they can...

lmnop · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:27:01 »

Deck has been around since 2003 and they are still here. I don't think your German jokes translate.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 10 September 2010, 19:32:59 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;221820

@darkrider
I would still consider ordering from Activekey, clueless and disinterested as they are, they are here at least... Don't forget that those bastards at the airport will most likely also charge u some hefty import duty, just cause they can...

That's what I fear...
If all Legends @ ActiveKey are linear, I'll take the toxic one and if I dislike the linear switches I can mod the board...
It's only a pity that the Legend is not available in GER layout, but as sait I'll get used to the US one...

imsto · « **Reply #36 on:** Sat, 11 September 2010, 11:00:41 »

get both...

ricercar · « **Reply #37 on:** Sat, 11 September 2010, 14:14:32 »

> red and yellow cheaper than blue and green, while it's the same friggin keyboard.

This may simply be due to LED prices varying by color.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #38 on:** Sat, 11 September 2010, 14:57:50 »

Quote from: ricercar;222058

> red and yellow cheaper than blue and green, while it's the same friggin keyboard.

This may simply be due to LED prices varying by color.

Could be but isn't...

For one I think the price gap is too large but ok, the mysteries about those LEDs and their prices doesn't really make this a solid argument.

But earlier in the thread I was told with sources that the yellow and reds just have an inferior built, which explains the price difference for sure

Jalal · « **Reply #39 on:** Sat, 11 September 2010, 20:15:20 »

@ OP
Ask Activekey if they have a Deck legend with german layout in stock: http://www.computerbase.de/forum/showthread.php?t=736683&page=3
They really should.

And as you could see in that link, the german layout has the ugly standard font: http://www.computerbase.de/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=187318&d=1274210863
Compare it to this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/elpibe10/AltiumVR1000BK-Deck.jpg

After seeing this i would not buy it with the german layout anymore.

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 12 September 2010, 05:15:03 »

I already wrote @ computerbase and also mailed Activekey, but it seems that that tere was not enough interest in a german Layout so there won't be a german Legend.
The computerbase thread was also closed according to Activekey's statement... -.-

lmnop · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun, 12 September 2010, 05:21:04 »

looks much better with the TG3 Font.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 12 September 2010, 16:06:49 »

I had to call them and ask why I still don't have an answer too

Not sure if that's the summer gap or just daily business for those guys since they prolly usually deal with companies not persons

About the font:
Yeah the US one defo looks better but whatcha gonna do... For me, the GER layout is honestly just superior, not only cuz I am more used to it (I used both for extended periods of time). I just think it's better AND it has ÄÖÜ... So I won't switch to US layout. Plus it would mess up my typing at work if I switch layouts I believe...

@Jalal
The Legend with German layout is defo dead for now and quite possibly forever. I am also quite positive that they never had a "prototype". I don't think ActiveKey is really willing to invest anything. Deck and thus "Gaming" Keyboards are not even close to their core business. I think they only have the Decks because they need industrial strength keyboards for their customers and some of them need backlit keyboards --> Deck
And apparently for the backlit ones they have another product to sell to their industrial customers if they ask for a 105 key backlit...

d4rkr1d3r · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 12 September 2010, 17:45:45 »

I think I'll also include MX-Blacks because i would PROBABLY take the Legend from Activekey and they only have it with linears... So why not include other boards with Blacks?!
The Deck 82 is really cool and not very expensive, but it's tenkeyless...
The Legend has US-layout (that i would accept but not really like) and is really expensive: @ Activekey ca. 220€ bzw. 280$. I could accept this price but only if I would be really sure.
Does anyone know another high quality Board with cherry-MX switches (not Blues)?
The Filco is one possibility (as in my startpost) but I'd like to get some more...

lmnop · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 12 September 2010, 18:05:33 »

Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;222505

@Jalal
The Legend with German layout is defo dead for now and quite possibly forever. I am also quite positive that they never had a "prototype". I don't think ActiveKey is really willing to invest anything. Deck and thus "Gaming" Keyboards are not even close to their core business. I think they only have the Decks because they need industrial strength keyboards for their customers and some of them need backlit keyboards --> Deck
And apparently for the backlit ones they have another product to sell to their industrial customers if they ask for a 105 key backlit...

in 2005 the community gave name suggestions for the Toxic prototype. in 2006 they were working with ultraviolet materials. in 2007 they released a limited number of Deck 82 with TG3 Font. you can still buy Deck 82 prototype casings.

look on their forums.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #45 on:** Mon, 13 September 2010, 08:31:47 »

Just wanted to keep u guys updated about my "progress" with ActiveKey.

Since I still didn't receive an email response to my last mails from Friday and Saturday (now it's 15:30 in Germany), I called again. Spoke to the same sales rep again. Asked if they had any news on the future availability of the AK-B400 (that's what they call the 82 Deck there) since it's not in stock with German layout. His answer you may ask? "We are still clarifying that."
Then I asked when I would hear from him again, today, tomorrow?
"Definitely within this week", he said ....

I think I just felt the air blow of something like a jet turbine THROUGH THE TELEPHONE !

Damn these guys are quick.

Jalal · « **Reply #46 on:** Mon, 13 September 2010, 09:12:16 »

Within the week is abosolutely okay, you're being too hasty.

lmnop · « **Reply #47 on:** Mon, 13 September 2010, 10:07:28 »

why do you guys care so much if it has a German layout or not. there are no extra keys correct? only extra characters. people from Australia, England and Netherlands order and own a Deck Legend with a US Layout.

Senor_Cartmenez · « **Reply #48 on:** Mon, 13 September 2010, 10:19:15 »

Quote from: ripster;222686

Schnell, Bitte!

Exactly!

Yeah I'm a bit hasty but c'mon, I am not asking him for a delivery within the hour. I am asking him when it's freaking available. We are living in the 21st century mon. Computers can tell you stuff y'know? And they do that fast, too!

Well whatever, let's see what they say then

@lmnop

Aside from the extra characters, the German layout has something the US one doesn't have (to my knowledge): The Alt Gr key.
With it, I can use the @ sign on my Q key, the ² and ³ on my 2 and 3 keys and other goodies, such as this sign ~ or these brackets [] {} or the allmighty backslash \. US has lots of extra keys for that (hence no room for ÄÖÜß), exclusively using Shift for alternate key usage (and FN since its emergence but GER keyboards got that too of course).

Furthermore as everyone knows Y and Z are switched between US and GER layout. That sux if u type a lot of German, because Z is much more common than Y in the German language. Of course in English Y is much more common than Z and this is not such a big deal but I am just used to that and prefer it by now.
We also have huge enter keys which seem to be a rarity among US layout boards. I for one love those, sadly for the Deck 82 in GER layout this doesn't fit. Small price to pay I think. Will see how I deal with that when it's here though, that may definitely be a deal breaker.

Oh and u guys only have $ symbol. Whereas GER layout keyboards have € AND $. Cuz we are just Europe like that and don't ignore the possibility of countries outside our own existing

/Edit
Forgot: to my knowledge the GER layout 82 Deck is actually a GER layout 83 Deck, that's right, 1 whole extra key *g*. I think they shrunk the left Shift key to fit it. Which is cool because it's always tiny in GER layout keyboards anyway. This may be one of the drawbacks of the GER layout actually. U sometimes end up hitting the key next to the left Shift or the Capslock key (which is longer)...

/Edit 2
Also: None of the mentioned countries use the characters ÄÖÜß. Austrians and german speaking Helveticans (? Switzerlandians? Swiss dudes!) prolly order from Germany

Jalal · « **Reply #49 on:** Mon, 13 September 2010, 10:24:40 »

I would just swap the Y and Z keys, keep/set German in Windows and as long as the Deck has the same amount of keys or one useless key fewer, it should work. This is what lmnop meant.

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