Got a Model M, but my BIOS doesn't like it.

[Scott]

So I got an M. I plugged it in when the computer was on. It worked. I love it and it's tactile feedback. So the next day, I go to turn my computer on, and my BIOS would not POST. I removed the keyboard, and it would POST; and the Event log in the BIOS told me that it was a keyboard error.

I asked about it on the Arch Linux Forums (I am a Linux User), and someone referred me here.

I have done some research and I hear it has to do with the Model M drawing a lot of power (or something like that). All of the websites said it could be fixed by simply soldering some resistors into the PS2 controller. However, I have never soldered something in my life, and I am not good with tools really.

Could anyone help me get my awesome keyboard working again?

Scott

[microsoft windows]

Try starting up the computer a few times with the keyboard plugged in. It should work eventually after some startups.

[Hubbert]

Go Arch!

First, though: desktop or laptop?
Are you connecting through the keyboard port or via a USB converter?

Lastly, why not just plug in after boot is completed?

[Hubbert]

I don't know, MS Windows...I had a similar problem: I could boot with ONE model M, but not with a Model M and other USB devices (IIRC), even if they were connected through a powered hub.

If the PC halts in POST (or hangs, in my case), why would the result be different if you repeated it?

[Scott]

Go Arch!

First, though: desktop or laptop?
Are you connecting through the keyboard port or via a USB converter?

Lastly, why not just plug in after boot is completed?

Sorry, I forgot to mention:

It is a desktop computer plugged in to the Mobo's PS2 Port

[Scott]

Impossible, the PS/2 port is only left enabled during boot if a keyboard was present during POST.

OP, investigate converters like the Blue Cube. Even if you get it working on your mobo PS/2 port, it will be glitchy occasionally and may cease to function randomly.

So, I know it works fine currently in Linux. Maybe if I plug in another PS/2 device during POST and then plug my M back in?

How much would the blue cube converter cost? And where could I get it?

[Scott]

One place to get it is on eBay, here. (switch to your local ebay site for accurate shipping)

However, as it works in Linux, you have an interesting problem. The 'blue cube' would undoubtedly circumvent the problem, but would not answer the question of why it isn't working in Windows.

For the record hotplugging is not a supported feature of PS/2. Motherboard and/or device damage can occur from doing it (the type of damage which will, in the case of the motherboard, prevent you ever using another PS/2 keyboard, or in the case of the keyboard render it totally useless). That said, damage seems to be rare compared to the number of times people do it without consequence.

I don't use Windows. It worked when I first plugged it in to my computer, running Linux, with my computer still on. My BIOS (which has nothing at all to do with the OS) just refuses to past POST with it plugged in.

[Scott]

Ohhh right. Misread that (this is what I get for multitasking).

System won't POST with it plugged in to PS/2, yet you're able to hotplug it (into PS/2) after OS is already running? Weird...a failure to POST is not the typically expected problem where the mobo doesn't play nice with a Model M. Typically, it simply won't work...LEDs may flash at power up but keyboard has no function and computer will POST the same as if none were connected (or halt saying there is no keyboard, whichever your system does when no keyboard is present).

I'd say you're some kind of exception; it's not supposed to work that way (and is an incredibly bad idea, FWIW). I'd say you should get a blue cube or equivalent (well, really, I'd say you should get one of the $1 with free shipping ones off ebay first, see if you find it usable, and if so then stick with that. If the issues the cheap ones have end up negatively impacting usability, go blue cube).

I could only really hotplug it the first time I plugged it in. Now if I do hotplug it the LED's just light up but the 'board itself does nor work.

And then once I plugged it in on POST with a USB keyboard also attached and it passed POST and I could enter the BIOS setup and the M worked.

I don't know about buying stuff from Ebay, especially because anything from there is usually from the States, and I have to pay ridiculous duties to ship it here to Canada (plus I lack a Paypal account, me being only 16). Edit: Yeah, 20$ for the converter @v Best Buy? No thanks.

How hard would it really be for me to solder on the two resistors that do the same fix as a PS/2 to USB converter? If I messed up would I render the keyboard useless?

[Scott]

Oh...so the POST failure *is* the "no keyboard present" type error. But yet it works...

I'm gonna say it's certainly your motherboard at fault here. If not hardware, then the BIOS...perhaps a mix of both. You may attempt the resistor trick...it may help, it may not. If you screw up, you're not LIKELY to ruin it, but it's always possible.

RE: Ebay, yeah, you're too young I believe. That said, I've only had duty fees on "big ticket items" sent USPS from the US. Literally everything sent by UPS which is not declared as a gift gets hit with a fee.

I have yet to get any kind of import fee on items coming from places other than the US (+100 transactions talking here).

*yawn*. May resume this tomorrow, unless someone else takes over for me while I'm getting much-needed sleep.

Now I realize just how cheap I am.
Hmm...I would rather spend the money and time on a real M, not my crappy Lexmark-made M2. It is louder, clickier, and worse made than a real M. But I really love my keyboard...I hate not having my own Paypal account sometimes (I use my dad's Paypal account when I do need it, but then I have to pass the "now what the hell do you need that for" test. If I ask if I can go through his paypal account, he would probably tell me that my keyboard is loud and noisy and that I don't need to spend any more money on it.

*sigh*

[rantenki]

Impossible, the PS/2 port is only left enabled during boot if a keyboard was present during POST.

Not true; many boards will allow the keyboard to be plugged in AFTER post, and still recognize it. Some boards disable ps2 on error, but not all. I have quite a few server boards that don't care a bit if they boot without a keyboard. You can always add one later on.

My recommendation would be to disable the "error on keyboard" setting in the bios (if there is one), and try booting with the M connected. It may be fubared, or it may work, but at least you can rule out the bios.

[Scott]

Wait.  Have you been talking about a IBM M2 not POSTing or a IBM M.  Big difference.  Up to 50% of M2s fail because of bad caps and other issues.

M2, Sorry I was not clear. I should just try and find a 1391401 then anyways.

Scott

[Scott]

I didn't think it mattered the difference, even when I bought the keyboard.

Well, it's back to using my crappy Dell rubber dome keyboard for another year (unless I can find an M at a thrift store or on Craigslist)

[KillerBee]

So I got an M. I plugged it in when the computer was on. It worked. I love it and it's tactile feedback.

Welcome to the club kid! Throw away that M2 and make your mother proud!!

What Model of Model M do you have? (read the label on the back of the Model M)

[ch_123]

I wouldn't just toss the M2, you could sell it here, and someone (brave) might take it off you.

[Rajagra]

Try setting the main BIOS page to show "Halt on all errors except keyboard" (or however it is worded on yours.)

If it seems you have an M2 with capacitor failure and you decide to try repairing, try something for me - connect the replacement capacitor(s) in parallel with the old ones without desoldering anything. I think the bad capacitors just go open circuit and there is no need to remove them.

[ricercar]

My Lanparty X48 doesn't allow hotplugging PS/2 keyboards to be recognized.

Ah, so now we understand why ripster whines regularly about PS/2. He bought a motherboard FAIL.

[woody]

Yes, PS/2 sucks donkey balls.  Or at LEAST the OCN Keyboard and HardForum guides should stop saying that you should buy a PS/2 keyboard.  It's 2010 people.

NKRO religion away, PS/2 is my choice because:
 - doesn't require USB stack, for the cases when OS has troubles with USB
 - easy adaptation to old computers and gear

For regular people none of that applies, so USB should be the modern choice.
________
500

[Rajagra]

PS/2 sucks donkey balls.

No. It just handles keyboard and mouse input. You'll find that USB is the Jack of all trades and master of none, including equine gonad depressurisation (due in Ver 3.0?)

Occam's razor: entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem  "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity". USB clearly violates this important scientific principle.

PS/2 keyboards work where USB ones often do not. Let's face it, if PS/2 had been made hot-pluggable (a trivial change) USB would never have even taken off in the first place. It did nothing that couldn't be done better by other interfaces. Actually, isn't that true even today, in 2010?

[Hubbert]

No. It just handles keyboard and mouse input. You'll find that USB is the Jack of all trades and master of none, including equine gonad depressurisation (due in Ver 3.0?)

Occam's razor: entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem  "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity". USB clearly violates this important scientific principle.

The "U" means Universal. Can you imagine the back of a computer with distinct interfaces for all the following:
PS/2 keyboard
PS/2 mouse
DB-9
DB-25
Centronics
iPod
Palm
iPhone
Cannon digital camera
Sony digital camera
Nikon digital camera
LAN
wireless LAN antenna
etc.?

I'm fairly conservative with technology, preferring tried true and working to the latest flavor of the week. But I think USB actually is a step forward.

If only the stores didn't charge so darn much for USB extension cords (more for a cord than a hub?!)...guess I should buy them online in advance.

[woody]

...
PS/2 keyboard
DB-9
Centronics
LAN

I have and need these. For some USB doesn't provide full replacement.
________
Venom

[Rajagra]

The "U" means Universal.

But it's a misnomer. USB ports only accept USB devices.

You could just as easily call RS232 a universal serial port by the same logic. Or Centronics a universal parallel port. In fact, RS232 was a far more generic standard than USB is or ever will be, and thus has a greater claim to being called "universal".

Granted, USB has become immensely useful, and has improved enormously. But I can't help feeling it achieved its success via false pretences and stealthy elimination of the competition.

[Scott]

I wouldn't just toss the M2, you could sell it here, and someone (brave) might take it off you.

Yeah, well, I don't really have any method of them paying me for the shipping, and the $10 I paid for the keyboard.

If you can think of a way (without credit cards or paypal) that I could sell it to anyone, that would be great. But otherwise, I wouldn't trust someone to mail me the money (and I mail them the 'board).

[ricercar]

If only the stores didn't charge so darn much for USB extension cords (more for a cord than a hub?!)...guess I should buy them online in advance.

The USB 1.x, 2.x specifications don't allow for extension cords. Period. If you buy one, your system is out of spec. Fancy that!

[NewbieOneKenobi]

My system hates older PS/2 keyboards (old M or SK-8820 rubber dome) and reacts with anything from non-boot to un-detecting my monitor to standard and shaving off the highest resolutions, but when I use a USB converter (active), then suddenly it's all okay. I blame the mobo but I blame it for everything including weather.

[aegrotatio]

I had the same problem with the otherwise excellent IBM PS/2 QuietKey rubber dome keyboards on my many AMD chipset motherboards.  I never really understood the problem but it appears to have been excessive current draw.  My newer machines with nVidia nForce and Intel chipsets that happen to have PS/2 connectors all worked fine.

[audioave10]

I currently have a Model M to an Asus M2N-E SLI board...works good but it is a 5 year old mobo. (PS2)

[NewbieOneKenobi]

If I recall correctly, some vendors of modern mechanical keyboards do warn about possible problems with modern PS/2 ports.

I wish PS/2 worked properly. Most FPS gamers probably do also.

[itlnstln]

It's not that big a deal.  If you regularly defeat 6KRO over USB, you're probably doing it wrong.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Nah, I never actually press more than one key that isn't a flag one. I'm mostly after precision for fast typing, particularly when trying to avoid lifting movements.

[Rajagra]

Now who still claims PS/2 is the "better" interface?

Me.

 I'm telling ya, motherboard implementation of PS/2 just sucks these days.

My highlighting. You nailed the problem yourself. The PS/2 specification is fine. When you make devices that are out of spec they may not work. That is true of any spec.

And when did the PS/2 spec start being treated so shoddily? That's right, when USB took off. USB is responsible for bad implementations of PS/2 and you use that as proof that USB is better? You would make a great lawyer.

[itlnstln]

I agree with Rajagra.  I still think PS/2 is the better interface.  There is nothing wrong, per se, with USB, but having a dedicated port and one less device on the bus is nice.  That is, if your PC is not a laptop.  In that case, USB is the better choice but more in terms of portability than anything.  The only thing USB beats PS/2 in is hotswapablity.

[itlnstln]

Nothing new there, we covered that early on courtesy of bhtooefr.  Why have special drivers or worry if the OS will recognize the USB 'board when you have none of that with PS/2?  The only thing that USB does is hotswapping, and for the majority of users, that is not a major concern when it comes to keyboards.  Around here, it's a little different, but we're a little different, so it all works out.

[Rajagra]

Same trick Das 3 uses and Sidewinder X4 uses.

Have you ever watched Aqua's Keytest while holding more than 6 keys down on the DAS3? You get very odd behaviour. It is certainly not true 12KRO. I might try to FRAPS it.

[Rajagra]

Here's what happens. Showing first how the DAS 3 copes with pressing and releasing keys 1-6, then pressing releasing keys 1-8. Will upload to Youtube.

[Rajagra]

Just to make sure it's not an Aquakeytest bug (I've seen a couple) you can make it do that in Notepad?

LOL. It's even worse in Notepad. If I hold down 1 to 7 then release only 7, I get this:

1234567123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456123456

with 123456 repeating for as long as I hold down those keys.

[Scott]

So hey again,

The keyboard has started working again! I had left it unplugged for almost two weeks straight, then decided just to try plugging it in. It worked!

So I really don't know what the problem is...

But I must say, I missed the feel of typing on this thing in those two weeks.

[NewbieOneKenobi]

Same thing here with my own piece that suddenly started working again some two days ago after spending years behind my step-father's fridge and getting cleaned by me. Not sure which experience was worse from the keyboard's perspective, I must ask it the next time I talk to it.