Newbie in need of help for first REAL keyboard

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I am getting a new keyboard to replace my generic Logitech Internet Pro keyboard, model: Y-SV49  with a Deck legend Frost.

The Frost version is a Tactile keyboard that uses Cherry MX1A-C1NW, clear; which to my understanding is basically a brown cherry but uses a black cherry spring.

http://www.deckkeyboards.com/product_info.php?products_id=95

Will this be acceptable for typing on wordpress to publish articles as well as gaming I play fps and rts games sometimes :}

I did read that from the guides from this forum that tactile isn't as good as linear for gaming, however tactile may be better for just typing. But still would it be acceptable for some gaming ?


In regards to NKRO i understand you don't get full NKRO unless your using PS/2; however since many new peripherals are excluding PS/2 these days, i thought of getting the USB variant for the Deck legend. However will i be able to get USB to PS/2 adapter working on it so i can still have FULL NKRO ??


On a separate note, is a keyboard cover acceptable or is there anything wrong using it with the Deck Legend

http://www.compucover.com/new_index.cfm?do=ItemPage&ManufactureName=Motorola&ProductID=1529913&CategoryID=553&RequestTimeout=1500&LetsSearch=KeySkin&ModelNo=tg3&StartRow=1



My other previous consideration was the Razer Black Widow Ultimate which looked sexy. However i am left wondering how they printed on their keys I don't think it's a good idea to invest in an expensive keyboard unless the print keys are very durable otherwise it would be a waste. My current Logitech keys have already faded because of my typing abuse What i did like about the Razer however was the ability to disable the windows key from activating from accidentally pressing it. I'm guilty of now and then pressing it by accident and dying ingame while i was minimized >-<; Is there some sort of key lock i can use for the Deck legend that can lock the windows key ??



The only other high end keyboard i ever got was the Logitech G15 but i opened it up to try cleaning but when i put it back together it didn't work again. Anyway i didn't like it at all because of the rubbery build, hard to wipe off etc etc. But after reading the articles here, that G15 looks downright awful ;_;

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Firstly thank you Flipster for your input. Yes i was seriously considering Flico brown cherry keyboards, sadly there is no illumination for them despite the high price. The Deck Legend fonts and lighting looked sweet

As linear (non-tactile) switches, these are one of the best types for gaming. When gaming, having a tactile bump does absolutely nothing because you're going to be bottoming out anyway. So these give you a very smooth feel. Also, the actuation and release points are at the exact same position. So games that require a lot of double tapping become easier than on any other keyswitch. However, most people don't enjoy typing on them that much.

If you're a person who tends to hit a wrong key every so often while gaming, these will be beneficial in that the high actuation force will help prevent many of those accidental presses.

Source:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html


Yeah i think 6NKRO should be fine for me. I don't play O2Jam in ages and if i remember right it only needed max 6 NKRO anyway (could be wrong on this).

My motherboard does have PS/2 but in the future motherboards i doubt they will. I checked the Deck keyboard FAQ and they said something about USB to PS/2 adapters but not sure if i get it :/

Deck products will not work with common USB to PS/2 adapters. Most (if not all) of these adapters were meant to be replacement adapters for original equipment that supports both USB and PS/2 interfaces (Deck keyboards only support USB, including the USB version of the 105-key Legend); these adapters will not simply convert any generic USB keyboard into a generic PS/2 keyboard. To date, the adapters that we’ve examined simply map "USB D-" to "PS/2 Data" and "USB D+" to "PS/2 Clock" (as well as +5V to +5V and gnd to gnd).

KVM switches fall under the same example. If you have a USB Deck, your best bet is to buy a USB KVM switch (the same applies to PS2 with a PS2 KVM).

KVM switch ? what :d ?


PS: I posted my hardware specs on my website if your interested to take a peek http://mognet.no-ip.info

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Ok i'll take a look.

Until a few days ago, i wasn't aware of membrane / mechanical keyboard differences and cherries.

All that time i thought the G15 was great

[laden3]

the only keyboard i know that can fulfill ur need is the ducky 104 and 108 (these r the only 2 i know, there might be others out there), but, it would be difficult to get them if u r not living in asia.

just get a unicomp... their keys r dye sublimated, they r nice for typing, quite nice for gaming (since u r going to bottom out anyways[presumptuously]) but, u cant disable the windows key and its does not have NKRO...its cheap tho, good price for a nice keyboard

regarding the NKRO, most of the people dont need it (if they do, u will see a lot of old keyboards NKRO mod...) and i dont have any problems playing warcraft 3 (mainly DotA) with the unicomp

[WhiteRice]

Everyone should start with a Model M. Cheap, classic, and a good place to discover your key actuation preference.

But then not everyone is going to get into collecting keyboards, or even having more than one.

So you do as much research as you can, ask questions and pick a keyboard.

Worst case scenario is you hate it, but you're in luck mechanical keyboards have great resale value.

Welcome, there's no turning back once you take the red pill.

[laden3]

Oh yeah, that's the OCN Mechanical keyboard guide.

That kinda sucks.  

OK, I keed - it has some misinformation in it but is a pretty good intro if you don't believe EVERYTHING as gospel.  Check out the Wiki portion of Geekhack for more factual information.  

And the OCN Key Section is the best part since most of it was lifted straight from Geekhack.

really -.-''' is it just the miniguru part...

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I'm from Malaysia by the way.

Ducky and Filco are made by the same OEM but Ducky is higher in quality.

    * Ducky's USB cable is not hard wired (both ends are male)
    * Ducky's Keycaps are made out of PBT
    * Ducky's Keycaps are laser etched
    * Ducky's 104 model has Media Keys and 108 model has Media and Hot Keys (calc, mail, browser, etc.)
    * Ducky's are sold for less than Filco.


the USB cable is neat, you plug one end into the keyboard and the other end into your Computer. if the cable ever dies or if you want to get a shorter or longer USB cable you can buy one in a store.

unlike Metadot (Das) they chose the right side Windows Key instead of the left side Windows Key as the Function Key to activate the Media Keys.

I am reading from a translator and information from geekhack so if I have any details wrong please correct me.

Ducky 108 comes with ivory colored W, S, A, D keycaps that are sublimated and made out of ABS, 37 extra keycaps that are laser etched and made out of PBT (extra stock keycaps), leather palm rest (same as the Filco one), keycap puller, ps/2 adapter, dust cover and cable ties.

Ducky 108 cost 799 yuan that is $117 US.

Source:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/727937-finding-filco-keyboards-hongkong.html


Hm i think i prefer the Deck Legend keys because

1. Font
2. Double-Shot Injection Molding + Dye Sublimination ( it can't get better than this )

Very good explanation regarding the keys here ( still reading it )
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=All+About+Keys&do=comments



I think i may have come across Model M before long ago. But imho i want to just get something perfect straight off the bat without having to hunt down a replacement later.

[laden3]

Me too! I am from Kedah, you??? dont u hate living malaysia when the only locally available mechanical keyboards r the Steelseries ones with the large enter key, but, u can cross the bridge to get a filco if u live near Singapore. If u have some friends studying in India, try to get some TVS Gold, I think they r cheap enough for an experimental keyboard (modding to tenkeyless, 1 day I will try this)

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I know right, it's ridiculous.

The biggest running irony in the world must be the Malaysia boleh slogan lulz :d becauz realistically most things tak boleh >-<;

Selangor by the way bro :}

SG got sell Flico locally ?

Is performance pcs the best place to order the Deck Legend Frost keyboard Or is there a local distributor.

[laden3]

idk... if u can order a Deck keyboard locally (idk where is performance pcs), I think Deck is quite a good choice since u said u like the font (the font is what prevents me from buying Deck 82) i heard that u can buy Filcos from Singapore, might need to ask those Singaporeans here

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Woah thats kewl :typing:

By the way i checked performance pcs their selling it for $179.95 USD + $45.50 USD for shipping to Malaysia.

Total price: $225.45


Wow, that is insane :shocked:


It's 25 USD more expensive then even the Razer Black Widow Ultimate !!


Anyway any opinions Is it possible i can get it for cheaper elsewhere or is there a cheaper alternative keyboard but has Double-Shot Injection Molding + Dye Sublimination ?

Led lighting would be nice, however i rather have the double shot injected molding keys preferably. I can then live without the LEDs.



Filco are laser etched keys How durable are laser etched

[laden3]

Filcos arent laser-etched, but, they r quite nice, u should read this http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6300

I think Decks r the only ones. This is how I choose a keyboard price>layout>switches>keycaps

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Wow

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=214719&postcount=100

So what was the full test result for the dye Sublimination keys Did they even wear off Is there any test for the Double shot injection molding + dye Sublimination keys ??


So for my needs there is no better option then the Deck Legend Frost tactile clear cherry keyboard (brown sounds better to me, but i'll live somehow) :d

Ok i'll take a leap of faith and get it soon.

Performance pc is that my best bet ? I did order from them before, a bluray writer and a desktop movable tray on wheels. Big purchase that time, had to order all my water cooling parts n upgrades from US e-sellers.

[laden3]

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?p=218334 u might want to take a look at this (just showing u so that u know what u r expecting)
the difference might be negligible

[Senor_Cartmenez]

Woah thats kewl :typing:

By the way i checked performance pcs their selling it for $179.95 USD + $45.50 USD for shipping to Malaysia.

Total price: $225.45


Wow, that is insane :shocked:

No it ain't. ActiveKey selling Deck Legends für 210 € ( ~274 $ !!!!!) in GERMANY the friggin land of CHERRY. Now that's INSANE !

Thing is, with customs, I probably won't get it much cheaper if I order from US. And sie Germans luuuuuuv their customs. Because therere are none inside the EU, they take high ass import duty on just about anything coming from outside the EU ...

So stop whining, buy a Deck

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

What kind of plastic are they using ? I couldn't find any sources to indicate :X

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Found it.

Hm Material PBT naice

I'm just curious though since it's not really double shots, how durable are they compared to the real thing. You said their good keys but then that those things can fall out. So are they durable or not :{

Is there any ACTUAL double shot keyboard around so i can look at

*still reading the key thing.


PS: this is how i rate keyboards

1. key print type ? double shot > dye subliminated > laser etched etc etc. Worth to invest ?

2. switches. Cherry browns, and cherry clears, topre my 3 top choices

3. Price.

4. aesthetics. led lighting ? keyboard layout are the keys too bunched up ? Font type, looks etc.

5. usb or ps2 ? Preferably usb so it's future proof.


1-3 pretty much tied.

[laden3]

Deck uses dye-sublimation for the labeling and the double shots are just there so that light can pass through the plastic

Actually u dont have to worry so much abt wearing off the labeling on ur keys, it will take long enough for the labeling on a dye-sublimated keycap to reach the looks of those sand-blasted keys that u saw.

You can actually get replacement keycaps once they wear off (probably once every 10 years???).

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Oh they sell replacement keycaps ??

Oh then i'm kewl then


Are the Filco keys replaceable as well ? when they wear out ?

And what about the Deck Leds do they wear out fast ?? From the reviews i heard, the lowest setting is the lighting you expect from most of the lighted keyboards (thats probably the setting i'd use ).

Some people with the Deck say some of the key lights fade or shut off altogether. So is it worth getting a lighted keyboard or just go with a Flico

But if we are talking about Flico, the Ducky is the same but better

However when i read more in the forum about the ducky, someone said there is going to be a newer ducky model but made using pbt.

[laden3]

Check this out if u can understand Chinese http://bbs.kbc-china.com/

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

But i don't want blank keys :{

I was checking the Deck forum about replacable keys but it sound as if they don't sell replacement.

Ducky sounds promising but is it easy to get key replacements same quality as the original ?


Hi laden, i saw the link but unfortunately i don't know chinese :{


By the way can you guys update me regarding the Ducky status ?? Someone said to wait fhr the PBT version ?? So what model should i be getting if i were to go the ducky route :d ?? I am assuming their using cherry browns same as the filcos ?

[laden3]

If u want tenkeyless, get the Ducky 1087, ABS version will be available by 9-20, PBT version is 10-1. If u want a normal keyboard, they have 108(4 multimedia keys, like mail, IE...) and 104(like our normal keyboard).

This guy "specialize" in making keycaps...http://shop61962089.taobao.com/

The normal Duckies have ABS caps and u can actually get better replacement keycaps from them (PBT).

Its a pain if u cant understand Chinese since u might need to go through a lot of trouble to get something u want, like these poor white guys ^^

These Asians should have an English website if they want to go international.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Hm i need the numpad keys though. Do the duckys have a new keyboard with all keys and is pbt.

Mail and IE keys don't really interest me. The standard keyboard layout would suffice :}

By normal keyboard do you mean mechanical and has the numpad 10 keys included ? Will it have the brown cherry switches ? What sort of key print do duckies use ? I am guessing laser etched like the Flicos ?

Yes i very surprised why they don't invest in hiring some English speaking staff to do translation. In Website design it isn't too hard to have dual language. In my opinion, it would be worth their investment doing translations in both Chinese and English (the international language despite what the French may think) if they want to be a successful business.

[laden3]

If u want a Ducky, 104 will do, it has the US layout with numpad, brown cherries, laser-etched, it can lock ur win key btw. IIRC PBT keycaps for 104 arent available yet, but, those "big bosses" might have some extras, doubt that u can get them =P

If u want PBT with numpad, buy Deck, seriously, the labeling wont wear off until u sand blast them or dip them in acid/alkaline, burn them etc...

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Ok Deck it is ....

I will need to sell off some old equipment to get the moolah to buy the deck.

Any ideas how much i can fetch selling the following as a single package.

1. Dell 2405 FPW  24'' monitor
2. Cooler Master Centurion Aluminium case with removable motherboard tray
3. Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS Asus Graphics card
4. Asus motherboard

*missing are the PSU, CPU, hard drives and ram.

I'm thinking roughly 400-500 USD. Any opinions ?

[laden3]

That is ur part to decide...

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Is this the ducky keyboard you were talking about, the Ducky 104

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=6862228802


Seems their already selling it o_O; ? is that a pbt with cherry browns ?

the ABS type plastic turn yellow is it but Pbt doesn't ? Any other difference :/

[laden3]

Thats the 104, but it has Cherry MX blacks and ABS keycaps.

u have to actually try the keycaps urself to decide which one (PBT or ABS) u like better.

Try to ctrl+f for this word "茶轴" if u want Cherry MX browns, 黑轴 is black, 青轴 is blue, 红轴 is red

[Kairxa]

Yeah i think 6NKRO should be fine for me. I don't play O2Jam in ages and if i remember right it only needed max 6 NKRO anyway (could be wrong on this).

err, o2jam in 6KRO will be a complete disaster, trust me. NKRO or die in this game.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Can NKRO keyboards but using USB interface, be fully NKRO after using a usb adapter ??

According to the Legend FAQ they say they can't :/ but what about other brands ?

[Kairxa]

Can NKRO keyboards but using USB interface, be fully NKRO after using a usb adapter ??

According to the Legend FAQ they say they can't :/ but what about other brands ?

My Filco does. It is 6KRO under USB, and full NKRO under PS/2, using the USB to PS/2 adapter that they provide. Note that this refer only to the NKRO version of Filco boards.

[Kairxa]

Yeah, that's o2jam for you

It's not actually chords though, only notes. Fun and at the same time, best way to destroy dome boards.

[Kairxa]

So if it is individual notes why would you ever need NKRO?

it is individual, but sometimes, we need to press all 7 keys simultaneously.

usually the setting will be asd [space] jkl, or qwe [space] jkl, or any other configuration.
last time I checked that with my boards, 6KRO is not sufficient.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

yes sometimes you need to press simultaneously. Apparently 7 it seems.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

My Filco does. It is 6KRO under USB, and full NKRO under PS/2, using the USB to PS/2 adapter that they provide. Note that this refer only to the NKRO version of Filco boards.

Wow so the Flico can use the adapter to change between 6 nkro and unlimited nkro using the USB to PS2 adapter???

Then why can't the more expensive Deck legend do this I'm flabbergasted :d

Deck Legend: 6KRO under USB, NKRO under PS/2.

I am aware it is capable for both, however you only get full NKRO if you get the PS/2 variant. If you get the USB variant, your stuck with 6 as usb adapter to PS/2 doesn't work according to their FAQ ( i could be wrong so correct me if i am ).

The only way to get full NKRO from the usb, is to mod it to be PS/2, which i wouldn't be willing to do :/

[Kairxa]

Deck is more expensive because they have this under their keys.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

By the way see this O2Jam video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5HcmmN4nG4

Pretty lights.

[Kairxa]

Especially when they have to double the price only because the other version has LEDs under each key. You know what I'm talking about.

Ah, my plain ordinary Filco. <3

===================

Hmm, gaussian blur. Can't stand its BPM.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

How long have you had the Filco Have the keys worn out

The ducky is the same as the Filco isn't it? So can it also have full NKRO when using USB to PS2 adapter ?

By the way this source saying the filco has full nkro doesn't mention about usb to ps/2 adapter.

http://geekhack.org/showpost.php?p=59495&postcount=23


Is there any confirmation regarding that ?

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Thats the 104, but it has Cherry MX blacks and ABS keycaps.

u have to actually try the keycaps urself to decide which one (PBT or ABS) u like better.

Try to ctrl+f for this word "茶轴" if u want Cherry MX browns, 黑轴 is black, 青轴 is blue, 红轴 is red

Thx for the tip. I think i will stick to the mx browns. Does this keyboard support full NKRO when using usb to ps2 adapter ?

I know pbt is better then abs. but is abs acceptable for the asking price for that keyboard ?


I looked at the picture for the ducky 9000 104 cherry brown, but the key prints look to be a cheap label. Doesn't look laser etched at all :/

[Kairxa]

My Filco is 2 months old, so, nope. The keys are still at their's best condition. Ask Ripster about information regarding Filco's keycaps. And about Ducky, I don't know very much about it, since I haven't tried that keyboard at all, nor read any review about that.

Err, every Filco only has USB connector on its cable, so.. You have to plug the adapter to get PS/2 support. Do we need to take a photo?

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

But do you get full nkro when using usb to ps/2 adapter ?

My motherboard fortunately has PS/2.

So when i play games like o2jam, i can use the adapter. But when not then i just use usb.

[Kairxa]

But do you get full nkro when using usb to ps/2 adapter ?

My motherboard fortunately has PS/2.

So when i play games like o2jam, i can use the adapter. But when not then i just use usb.

Yes I do. And it's 6KRO under USB, just like they've said.

If I'm not mistaken, you can get Filco boards in Singapore. Available at Scorpia, Cybermind, Techdrome, Chamoxa, CH Computer, GameShop, and The Potterhouse, according to this web. Wow, even the topre.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Where you from by the way ? Filco sounds sexy

[laden3]

Of course... Duckies r just like Filco but cheaper, and limited to China as a cheaper Filco alternative with better support in China (u can call them)+ some extra functions like win key lock etc...

So, it comes with a usb to ps/2 adapter like Filco does because they market it as NKRO in ps/2 mode.

If u r buying a 104 key keyboard, it is better to get the Filco from Singapore since u get better support and u can communicate better with them. For places that sell them, http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2881753 (I googled) or u can just google for better results. (Try malaysia+Filco too, I was lazy)

If u want the Duckies, it is recommended to buy from these ppl http://bbs.kbc-china.com/thread-667-1-1.html because they r the ones who actually own the KBC company (IIRC). u might need to consider the shipping cost from China too. In the end, the price might be more expensive than the Filco. (u have to calculate the cost urself, refer to http://sendfromchina.com/, this is the website they told me)

If u really want some nice keycaps, http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:6924, or ask Ripster for more info

off topic: in the end, its the price that matters

[Kairxa]

Where you from by the way ? Filco sounds sexy

I'm from Indonesia. It's written in my location o.o

[laden3]

I'm from Indonesia. It's written in my location o.o

I think he probably wants to know where u get ur Filco... Since Indonesia n malaysia r neighbors

[Kairxa]

I think he probably wants to know where u get ur Filco... Since Indonesia n malaysia r neighbors

Still the same answer then. Recently, a pretty known distributor in here imported Filco boards.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

What distributor ? Please do tell :d


I saw

Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch Keyboard (Model No.: FKBN104M/EB) @ SGD199.00

http://www.gameshop.com.sg/product_info.php?products_id=5145&osCsid=8b87e2092f7136718176999040cb8e9b



Elitekeyboards sell it for USD134, how this hasn't yet taken the price for shipping into account yet.
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_104key&pid=fkbn104meb



I'm wondering if there is a cheaper source ?

[Kairxa]

This. Even though it's listed as US$155 there, I bought mine for Rp 1,300,000.-, about the same price with gameshop's.

I don't know whether they will ship internationally or not. I'm afraid the best deal you can get is to get the board from Singapore.