Author Topic: Electric Cars are Ugly  (Read 23816 times)

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Offline microsoft windows

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 17:20:39 »






I think the enviro-hippies designing these things are smoking too much weed.
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Offline Rajagra

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 18:17:01 »
Quote
Electric Cars are Ugly
Not always. Sometimes they are just expensive and unreliable.



« Last Edit: Sat, 18 September 2010, 18:21:12 by Rajagra »

Offline Shawn Stanford

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 19:26:11 »
Tesla Model S

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Offline a_fluffy_kitten

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 19:32:41 »
This isn't ugly:



However, if you wanted to make the case that all electric cars suck, well, no argument from me there.
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Offline Konrad

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 19:36:49 »
There's plenty of ugly gas burners out there, too.  Automotive makers keep trying to evolve their products with futurism, no matter how ****ty it sometimes looks.
 
I wonder how efficiencies compare.
 
Energy provided by petroleum fuels vs energy needed to drill/extract, move it to the refinery for processing, move it all over the bloody place until it gets distributed to gas stations.  Gas engines are said to be ~15% efficient (ie, ~85% of the energy within the fuel is wasted as heat).  Total pollution costs?
 
From what I've read (I'm no expert on chemistry or gasoline combustion), nearly 69% of the gasoline, by weight, is converted into pollution (the rest being mostly harmless emissions and water).  So 1 US gallon of gas, weighing 6.25 pounds, spews over 4 pounds of crap into the air.  (Yeah, it mostly goes into the air, it doesn't just disappear.)
 
Electrical engines provide less power.  But the power itself is mostly generated by oil-/gas-/coal-burning and nuclear plants.  A small percentage is "renewable" solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc.  I suppose the big plants have greater efficiencies compared to car-sized engines, still their pollution must be comparable (if not a bit greater, due to inefficiencies and losses transferring this energy into the car).  Yeah, they can reuse roughly 10-20% of the power "lost" to braking/etc, but they still don't really compare well.  And what will we do with all those dead batteries?
 
It seems to me that electric vehicles give diminished performance (at higher prices), consume the same quantities of resources (though slightly different ones), and simply move the pollution problem somewhere else.  Somewhere far away from the traffic-dense cities.  I'm not buying it.

Offline ch_123

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 19:49:07 »
I wish Youtube had that clip from the Simpsons. You know, that clip.

Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 21:18:59 »
Quote from: ch_123;224555
I wish Youtube had that clip from the Simpsons. You know, that clip.


do you mean the clip from south park?

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Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 21:20:01 »
Quote from: Shawn Stanford;224549
Tesla Model S

Show Image


thats gorgeous

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Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 21:20:37 »
porsche and mercedez are working feverishly on electric or elec-hybrid models.

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Offline keyboardlover

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 18 September 2010, 22:56:42 »
Quote from: wellington1869;224570
do you mean the clip from south park?


Same thing really... ;)

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 00:52:43 »
Quote from: Konrad;224554
I suppose the big plants have greater efficiencies compared to car-sized engines, still their pollution must be comparable (if not a bit greater, due to inefficiencies and losses transferring this energy into the car).


For an accurate comparison, you have to look at "well to wheel" efficiencies. Assuming that you have the same raw inputs (we'll use oil as an example, since you can use it for power generation, or for gasoline engines), how much do you gain from using an electric vehicle as an endpoint?

You'll get about 20% efficiency in energy conversion if you burn the oil at the power plant, transmit it over power lines, and run it through an electric engine. Burn that same oil as gasoline in a small car engine, and you overall efficiency in energy conversion is about 15%. By this metric, electrics are unquestionably better. Albeit, not as "dramatically" better as often claimed.

Pollution is a more complicated problem. CO2 emissions will be lower overall if you use an electric vehicle, simply by virtue of burning less fuel overall, and also from the use of some truly clean electrical sources. In terms of other pollutants, small gasoline engines may be favored. Modern ultra-low emission car engines are remarkably clean, in ways that coal-fired plants just aren't. Still, most cars on the road are not in that category of ultra-low emissions. I don't know the true answer to the pollution question.

This is all very well understood, honestly. Overall, you win with electric cars. Yes, they have issues, but the technology will improve.


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Offline Parabellum

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 05:02:22 »
Are you're telling me that looks good
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 December 2010, 07:39:52 by Parabellum »

Offline ch_123

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 05:14:09 »
Quote from: wellington1869;224570
do you mean the clip from south park?


No, this.

Offline Ekaros

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 07:19:12 »
Quote from: a_fluffy_kitten;224550
This isn't ugly:

Show Image


However, if you wanted to make the case that all electric cars suck, well, no argument from me there.


It IS ugly at least that front grill and lights... Otherwise the body is quite nice.


We could generalise that moving a huge lump of metal/plastic/wood around on 4 wheels to move 1 person is inefficient by it self...
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Offline microsoft windows

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 09:37:11 »
Quote from: a_fluffy_kitten;224550
This isn't ugly:

Show Image


However, if you wanted to make the case that all electric cars suck, well, no argument from me there.


Yeah, but I'd never drive a car with a name that sounds like "Howdy".
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Offline JBert

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 10:14:59 »
Quote from: Konrad;224554
There's plenty of ugly gas burners out there, too.  Automotive makers keep trying to evolve their products with futurism, no matter how ****ty it sometimes looks.
 
I wonder how efficiencies compare.
 
Energy provided by petroleum fuels vs energy needed to drill/extract, move it to the refinery for processing, move it all over the bloody place until it gets distributed to gas stations.  Gas engines are said to be ~15% efficient (ie, ~85% of the energy within the fuel is wasted as heat).  Total pollution costs?
 
From what I've read (I'm no expert on chemistry or gasoline combustion), nearly 69% of the gasoline, by weight, is converted into pollution (the rest being mostly harmless emissions and water).  So 1 US gallon of gas, weighing 6.25 pounds, spews over 4 pounds of crap into the air.  (Yeah, it mostly goes into the air, it doesn't just disappear.)
 
Electrical engines provide less power.  But the power itself is mostly generated by oil-/gas-/coal-burning and nuclear plants.  A small percentage is "renewable" solar, wind, hydro, geothermal, etc.  I suppose the big plants have greater efficiencies compared to car-sized engines, still their pollution must be comparable (if not a bit greater, due to inefficiencies and losses transferring this energy into the car).  Yeah, they can reuse roughly 10-20% of the power "lost" to braking/etc, but they still don't really compare well.  And what will we do with all those dead batteries?
 
It seems to me that electric vehicles give diminished performance (at higher prices), consume the same quantities of resources (though slightly different ones), and simply move the pollution problem somewhere else.  Somewhere far away from the traffic-dense cities.  I'm not buying it.
You're comparing field-tested technology with new stuff which finally starts to get usable.

Compare it to hard disks and SSDs.

Quote from: microsoft windows;224648
Yeah, but I'd never drive a car with a name that sounds like "Howdy".
Wow, what a rational argument you make.
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Offline ch_123

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 10:23:34 »
Fjord? I thought that was a coastal inlet in Norway...

Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 13:07:00 »
i'm really into diesel hybrids. I dont need 300mpg, but 80-100 mpg (for a start) is well within reach with a diesel hybrid and with very decent performance and range too.
and with the combined torque of deisels and electrics you could tow a small building behind you.

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Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 13:22:27 »
fisker karma hybrid: road and track says: "perhaps the Karma does represent the automotive future. It can achieve what the company says is the equivalent of 100 mpg. What’s more, it has 403 hp and can hit 62 mph in 5.9 seconds. Top speed is said to be an impressive 124 mph."

looks beautiful to me...

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Offline Rajagra

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:03:27 »
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:21:03 by Rajagra »

Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:04:52 »
suv driver = terrorist sympathizer? ;-D

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Offline Rajagra

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:17:03 »
Quote from: wellington1869;224710
suv driver = terrorist sympathizer? ;-D


Nah, American patriot!


Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:18:08 »
lol

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Offline JaccoW

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:38:29 »
Just to add a few more:

Aptera


Acabion (okay, so it is a hybrid, but it goes fast)


Loremo

Just a few more exotic ones. :D
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Offline keyboardlover

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 14:52:05 »
I love how pretty much every post in this thread has proven it's own title to be wrong.

Offline JBert

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 16:01:07 »
Quote from: Rajagra;224708
SUV attacks Tesla and Prius. SUV comes out on top.
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Offline Konrad

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 17:51:34 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver
Overall, you win with electric cars. Yes, they have issues, but the technology will improve.
Quote from: JBert
You're comparing field-tested technology with new stuff which finally starts to get usable.
Compare it to hard disks and SSDs.
Agreed, in maybe another decade or two the electrics will completely pwn the roads. Partly from evolutionary improvements, partly from the entire automotive infrastructure shifting them into the mainstream. When that time comes I certainly won't rule them out.
 
The HDD-SDD analogy is imperfect (because SSDs are in fact vastly superior to mechanical drives in every measurable capacity aside from cost), though I don't dispute what you're trying to say.
 
For now the electrics still seem gutless. Not entirely as pollution-greeny as expected. More costly to purchase, maintain, repair, and even sell/recycle. And, of course, more embracing of the high-end "concept car" ugliness seen at the extreme end. I suspect these swirly curvy jetson toys are sort of like the automotive equivalent of the unusable exotic crap seen on a French fashion runway ... maybe some celebs or politicos/corpers will buy the odd piece, not to really use as a car as much as a short-use fashion accessory or "pro-environment/technology" statement.
« Last Edit: Sun, 19 September 2010, 17:54:01 by Konrad »

Offline ch_123

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 17:59:40 »
Quote from: Konrad;224747
HDD-SDD analogy is imperfect (because SSDs are in fact vastly superior to mechanical drives in every measurable capacity aside from cost),


Write speeds? Long term performance/reliability issues? =P

Offline Konrad

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 18:06:35 »
lol, those are valid points.  Don't look at low-end consumer SSDs, look at the enterprise/server class units; built for maximum speed and reliability.  SSD units that actually use highest-performance controllers/cache/etc.  Downside is extreme cost, especially in comparison with HDDs.

Offline wellington1869

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 18:42:49 »
even with the ssd analogy, i think hybrids win again. Seagate momentus xt. 4gb ssd cache stuck on top of a normal 7200rpm hard drive. Fraction of the cost of real ssds -- but with a very good chunk of the performance gains.

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Offline williamjoseph

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 19 September 2010, 19:08:44 »
this one is human powered. it goes backward and forward, and if asked nice enough from side to side.


By williamjoseph at 2010-09-19

Offline mmm

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 04 December 2011, 19:22:06 »
Mercedes and some other companies are developing batteries which have 10 times more juice per liter. Driving 1000 km on 'one tank' will be normal in 10 9 years for electric cars. Speed charging is (technically) available: it will take about 2 3 to 5 minutes to charge up to 95% or more.
Since large batteries won't be an issue anymore in the 'near' future (simply because they don't need to be so very large anymore), currently designed non-electrical cars can be adapted to become electric.
For example, the beautiful Alfa Romeo Montreal can be adapted and be electrical (the normal V8 uses approx. 5,5 18 liter/100 km, which only millionairs can afford in Europe where I live and where a gallon of petrol is approx. $8 $9 (€1.60 €1.85/l).
So, here is the non-electric version:

And here is the electric version:

Still think electric cars are (more) ugly (than non-electrical cars)?
:tongue:
Oh... And here a few more non-electrical cars - all butt ugly:
« Last Edit: Sat, 15 September 2012, 06:25:28 by mmm »
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Offline Malphas

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 09:42:35 »
Pretty much every car made from the mid 90's onwards is ugly, regardless of whether it's electric or not.

Performance-wise, electric motors are great, and about a billion times better than a combustion engine in all aspects (which is why they're used in nuclear submarines, high speed trains, etc.)  Batteries on the other hand are pathetic (which is why subs have nuclear generators and trains are fixed to overhead wires).  Also, car manufacturers don't want to piss away years of R&D by introducing half-decent electric cars overnight, which is why the only fully electric cars are ugly, underpowered pieces of crap aimed at eco-hippies; except for Tesla Motors because they don't have any vested interest in combustion engines.

Edit: Oops, ancient thread.
« Last Edit: Tue, 06 December 2011, 09:57:30 by Malphas »

Offline itlnstln

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #33 on: Tue, 06 December 2011, 15:45:19 »
Quote from: ripster;465175
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Offline awardsnight

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Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 05:41:34 »
Well not all electric cars are ugly. And let's just wait for the day when electric cars become popular.

Offline mmm

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 06:49:33 »
Electric Lotus Elise:

Electric Jaguar E-type:

Electric Volkswagon E-bugster:

Electric Renault Dezir:

Electric Dodge Viper:

Hybrid BMW i8:

Electric DeLorean (0-100km/h in 4.9; $95.000):

Electric Mercedes Benz SLS AMG E-Cell:

Electric Lamborghini Minotauro:
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Offline demik

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #36 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 07:13:44 »
none of those look good
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 08:23:09 »
I just turned 60.

I was in college ( majoring in Industrial Design) during the first Arab Oil Embargo of 1973.

We all assumed that non-fossil-fuel cars would shoot to the top of everyone's priority list and within a decade or 2 most vehicles would be electric.

Now I wonder whether I will even live long enough to own and drive something that I expected to be available half a lifetime ago.

PS - I watched the Jetsons as a kid, so all I ever REALLY wanted was a flying car
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Offline Malphas

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #38 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 10:33:02 »
none of those look good
No modern cars look good though.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #39 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 13:12:50 »
ORLY? You just noticed that they look like garbage? heh. I do have to say thought that the Porsche 918 Spider looks alright in my opinion. Granted, I don't care for the regular Porsche body style.

Offline FoxWolf1

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 16 September 2012, 14:00:08 »
The thing listed above as an electric Dodge Viper is actually a Lotus Europa with electric power and Dodge branding.

Also, I think the Lightning GT is pretty nice-looking.







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Offline Dajm

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 09:58:29 »
Opel Ampera (same as Chevy Volt on the inside)



Offline Malphas

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 16:48:16 »
ORLY? You just noticed that they look like garbage? heh. I do have to say thought that the Porsche 918 Spider looks alright in my opinion. Granted, I don't care for the regular Porsche body style.
Show Image

Looks to me like what you'd end up with if you took a regular Porsche, then watched a bunch of Chris Bangle's wet dreams and a DVD boxset of "Pimp My Ride" then started hacking up the panels with a machete and bolted on a load of **** from AutoZone.

Offline Malphas

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 16:57:07 »
Now this is nice. Mercedes had a few prototype EV 190's in the 90's.



A regular one for illustration purposes:


Offline sth

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 16:58:20 »
The thing listed above as an electric Dodge Viper is actually a Lotus Europa with electric power and Dodge branding.

Also, I think the Lightning GT is pretty nice-looking.

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image

Show Image


And even more here.

looks great from the side, borderline hideous from the front.
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Offline Elrick

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 17 September 2012, 23:02:17 »
No one has designed a true, unique electric vehicle yet.

All they are currently doing is using the OLD combustion engined layouts when designing any so-called "NEW" electric cars.

I want to see vehicles designed for usage in rough country areas but are easy to charge up via the Sun.  Real insect like vehicles that are extremely tough when it came to endurance and reliability.

They can be taken apart and re-configured to climb steep inclines of 60% .  Maybe do away with small wheels/tires.

Offline posthaste

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 18 September 2012, 18:19:06 »
The problem is battery technology sucks, and there's no miracle on the horizon. 

Offline mmm

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 00:14:40 »
The problem is battery technology sucks, and there's no miracle on the horizon. 
You've got to live with it, if you want it or not. At least, that is, you have to leave petrol cars. For example, in Paris petrol cars will be banned from 2030 onwards.
Its because of oil companies like Chevron which are sitting on battery and other tech patents and because of governments subsidizing oil companies (because they don't have to pay for the environmental damage and climate change which they cause; if they would have to pay for it, a gallon would be $50) that there are not enough electric and other alternative cars. You could also drive on - for example - compressed air.
But I would say this is all off-topic; as the topic is 'Electric Cars are Ugly'. Which is nonsense, be it alone for the fact that you can transform any car into being electric.
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Offline fanpeople

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 01:42:19 »
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Offline appaboy

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Re: Electric Cars are Ugly
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 03 August 2019, 01:50:52 »
To be fair , normal cars are ugly too
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HASRO keycaps
OG POM keycaps
SAI OG Italian dyesubs
Scarface Fn blank