Cherry G80-3494 LYCUS-2 VS Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I had another thread which i was deciding on the Deck Legend Frost Tacticle; however my choices has been changed to Cherry VS Filco
http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=11695


Deck Legend Frost Tacticle

Pros
- Nice looking keyboard
- Sort of double shot keys
- cherry clear switches
- gold cross points
- nice leds

Cons
- Lights will eventually die. Despite the claims they will last 20 years, some users have reported some dying in 1-2 years. So why get a lighted keyboard then if it won't last.
- very expensive.
- full nkro is only possible with PS/2 which is normal, however what is odd is, their USB variant cannot use full NKRO after using a USB to PS/2 adapter. However why is it that Filco and Cherry can This made me question the quality of the Deck.



Cherry G80-3000

Pros

- FULL NKRO even when using usb to ps/2 adapter


Cons

- no led lighting, however this is acceptable to me
- many many models with different specs. Confusing for a first time buyer



Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO
http://elitekeyboards.com/products.php?sub=filco_keyboards,majestouch_104key&pid=fkbn104meb

Pros

- FULL NKRO even when using usb to ps/2 adapter
- MX Cherry brown switches


Cons

- no led lighting, however this is acceptable to me
- key print is the cheap labeling kind. No matter how good they do theirs, this isn't acceptable to me; however i was informed that they will sell dual shot keys for the Filcos separately.



Cherry G80-3494 LYCUS-2
http://www.pcviva.com/products/G80-3494LYCUS-2.html
http://www.iqmore.idv.tw/cherry-g80-3494-lycus-2-mechanical-keyboard-review

Pros

- FULL NKRO even when using usb to ps/2 adapter
- MX Cherry red switches
- key caps use POM plastic materials.


Cons

- no led lighting, however this is acceptable to me
- the casing uses ABS plastic
- hard to find a good price for it

If you're going to order overseas I would seriously shift attention to the Cherry G80-3494LYCUS-* instead it only costs 1099 Taiwan Dollar ($34 USD)

G80-3494LYCUS-0 (White)
Polystyrol Casing
PBT (Polyester) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

G80-3494LYCUS-2 (Black)
ABS Casing
POM (Delrin) Key Caps
Printing is Laser Etched
Backplate

White version has Nubs on F, J and 5 Keys. Black version has Sloped F and J Keys and a Nip on the 5 Key.

note: I am pretty sure the Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-0 (White) and Cherry G80-3600LYCEU-2 (Black) are the same models with some minor aesthetic differences.

Cherry Logo is now Laser Etched and Painted on the 3494
Status LED indicators are now Blue instead of Green on the 3494

the reason they use POM in the Black version is because the White lettering shows up better. POM is very strong, rigid and expensive. in terms of texture it is more slippery than PBT.

Cherry MX Red switches are Linear (non-tactile, non-clicky) they are similar to the Cherry MX Black Linear but only require 45g of force to actuate and 60g of force to bottom out because they use a weaker spring. in the 3 reviews I read all 3 of them had one thing in common they mentioned the Topre RealForce in some shape or form so they should be significantly better to type with.

the Cherry G80 Classic Line that uses Cherry MX Blue, Brown and Black switches (G80-3000LSCRC-*, G80-3000LXCEU-*, G80-3000LPCEU-*) are widely available in a lot of countries but are not as solidly built, for example they are PCB mounted, rollover is only 2 n-Key rollover and they cost 60-100 depending on the country and currency.

pretty...

Source:
http://www.overclock.net/8758976-post2260.html

[Senor_Cartmenez]

Wait a moment, where did u get the information that the cherry g80-3000 has full n-key rollover?

I checked the datasheet of the g80-3000 from the cherry corp website in germany just like half an hour ago and read some review. I am quite positive now that the g80-3000 has NO 6key or n-key rollover whatsoever.

A shame really. Because the whole "we charge perfect-product prices but we are all missing at least 1 ingredient" theatrics of the well known premium keyboard manufacturers is kind of getting annoying. So I was pretty much ready to shoot all the LEDs and other fancy schmancy things out the window and go with a cherry that is particularly cheap for sie germans.

44€, awesome, brown mx switches, awesome, ger layout, awesome, no leds, well whatever, no rollover ..... awwww maaaaaan

[ch_123]

Some Cherry-made keyboards have NKRO, some don't. Because their model number system is so meaningless, it's really hard to know which one you are getting.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I'm pretty sure this one has full NKRO
G80-3494LYCUS-2

The website says it does so it must be true :X

http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results


I also saw some other reviews for it that even performed tests to check if it is full nkro (using the ps2 adapter of course) and it worked.


As for the G80-3000 if i remember correctly, some have full nkro and some don't. I could be wrong on this so please don't take my word for it.




@Senor_Cartmenez

Well Ripster does have a point that most stuff don't require more then 6 simultaneous presses at once. Exceptions can be games like O2Jam etc. So 6KRO is sufficient for most people. NKRO is for people like me who just must have all features. In the future when all motherboards remove ps/2 there will no longer be NKRO :{ /sad smiley face



PS: Aren't cherries made in Germany ?

[Senor_Cartmenez]

PS: Aren't cherries made in Germany ?

yuuub. Couldn't find a G80-3494LYCUS-2 anywhere though ...

The vanilla G80-3000 does not have 6 or N key rollover though. I wouldn't count the G80-3494 as a G80-3000, that's why the confusion.

And yes, our confusion is most likely a result of cherry's confusion when giving their children names

[itlnstln]

Is Cherry part of the SS or something?  That guy's medal scares me a bit.

[itlnstln]

There are many tasteless jokes going through my head, but I am not going to post them out of self-shame for even thinking of them.

[lmnop]

some of that information I wrote is incorrect. I apologize. the G80-3494 is PCB mounted.

Sort of double shot keys

Deck keycaps are 2-piece and dye sublimated.



the plunger and legend in white are fused to the black keycap. the legend is then dye sublimated and a coating is applied. Deck keycaps are made out of PBT and manufactured by Signature Plastics.

Lights will eventually die. Despite the claims they will last 20 years, some users have reported some dying in 1-2 years. So why get a lighted keyboard then if it won't last.

the LED Deck use are rated for 200,000 hours (about 22 years). Cherry MX Black are rated for 50 million strokes (about 20 years). Cherry MX switches can die in a day, week or year. if a LED or Cherry MX switch does die Deck will replace it and if your warranty is expired they will still service your Deck Legend for a fee.

full nkro is only possible with PS/2 which is normal, however what is odd is, their USB variant cannot use full NKRO after using a USB to PS/2 adapter. However why is it that Filco and Cherry can This made me question the quality of the Deck.

I have no explanation but most keyboards can't even do 6+4 properly. the Deck Legend can so if USB makes you comfortable buy the Deck Legend with USB. in the user manual there are instructions how to change the cable from USB to PS/2 or vice versa.

key print is the cheap labeling kind. No matter how good they do theirs, this isn't acceptable to me; however i was informed that they will sell dual shot keys for the Filcos separately.

amen.

key caps use POM plastic materials.

POM Keycaps are very strong and have high resistances to chemicals and abrasions but people complain the legends are slippery.

the casing uses ABS plastic

the Topre Realforce is made out of ABS.

Cherry G80-3494 LYCUS-2

I think it's size should be a con because it's twice the size of a Filco Majestouch and these days space seems to be a premium.

hard to find a good price for it

you can find a G80-3494LYCUS-0 for $177 on eBay. I don't think you will find it cheaper outside of Asia.

[lmnop]

some of that information I wrote is incorrect. I apologize. the G80-3494 is PCB mounted.

Sort of double shot keys

Deck keycaps are 2-piece and dye sublimated.



the plunger and legend in white are fused to the black keycap. the legend is then dye sublimated and a coating is applied. Deck keycaps are made out of PBT and manufactured by Signature Plastics.

Lights will eventually die. Despite the claims they will last 20 years, some users have reported some dying in 1-2 years. So why get a lighted keyboard then if it won't last.

the LED Deck use are rated for 200,000 hours (about 22 years). Cherry MX Black are rated for 50 million strokes (about 20 years). Cherry MX switches can die in a day, week or year. if a LED or Cherry MX switch does die Deck will replace it and if your warranty is expired they will still service your Deck Legend for a fee.

full nkro is only possible with PS/2 which is normal, however what is odd is, their USB variant cannot use full NKRO after using a USB to PS/2 adapter. However why is it that Filco and Cherry can This made me question the quality of the Deck.

I have no explanation but most keyboards can't even do 6+4 properly. the Deck Legend can so if USB makes you comfortable buy the Deck Legend with USB. in the user manual there are instructions how to change the cable from USB to PS/2 or vice versa.

key print is the cheap labeling kind. No matter how good they do theirs, this isn't acceptable to me; however i was informed that they will sell dual shot keys for the Filcos separately.

amen.

key caps use POM plastic materials.

POM Keycaps are very strong and have high resistances to chemicals and abrasions but people complain the legends are slippery.

the casing uses ABS plastic

the Topre Realforce is made out of ABS.

Cherry G80-3494 LYCUS-2

I think it's size should be a con because it's twice the size of a Filco Majestouch and these days space seems to be a premium.

hard to find a good price for it

you can find a G80-3494LYCUS-0 for $177 on eBay. I don't think you will find it cheaper outside of Asia.

[itlnstln]

tough but kinda slippery.

This would explain the "Teflon-like" feel of Cherry caps (the lasered ones, anyway).  Even if they are well textured, they have a very slick feel to them.

[lmnop]

PBT = Bruce Willis



POM = Arnold Schwarzenegger

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I found out more about the  Cherry G80-3494 LYCUS-2


- Casing is ABS. For the white variant they are using poly something.
- PCB mounted
- Key prints are laser etched ( i presume with paint infills )
- The black variant which is what i am interested in, has POM for the keys. The white variant has PBT.
- Cherry MX Red
- USB however comes with a PS/2 adapter
- NKRO when using the USB to PS/2 adapter
- US layout
- Weight: 1.4KG
- Dimensions: 470(L) X 195(W) X 44(H)mm




Here is some close ups for the white and black variants





Source:
http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide-306.html


The black version looks to have clearer/thicker lettering/numbering if you ask me.


The only parts of these i don't understand the implications of is the pbt mounting and the abs casing material. Is this fine Or should i be worried.





PS: I do agree with you that most people may be concerned about the size of keyboards these days; however for me, the size is alright as i don't need portability to take it with me for lan parties, and my desk has sufficient space.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I hope to find out more about that cherry black keys.

Does anyone here have the keyboard ?



Hm so laser they have infilled and not infilled ?? I didn't see that in the wiki :d plz do explain more.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

@ripster

I saw in another thread that you mention you somehow obtained doubleshot keys for cherry keyboard. May i ask how to go around getting them ?

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=8820

[lmnop]

the G80-3494 edges out the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch in quality despite it's size and undesirable feet, but I wouldn't want to pay $177 for one therefore I would buy the Filco Majestouch Tactile Touch. there is a upside to having unidentifiable plastics it's like mystery meat!

see The Anti-Otaku: A Double Shot Key Filco thread.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Damn, you could be right Imnop.

The only reason stopping me from getting filco was the keys. Yes they will have pom replacables but not at the moment, but sometime in the future.

I just need a 1 purchase keyboard with everything in one shot.


The Filco sells for 134 USD, and the Cherry sells for 184 USD (shipping price included).

The Filco double shot keys will sell between 40-60 USD i hear. Also the shipping price isn't included yet.

[lmnop]

the Filco Double Shot Keycaps are probably going to be expensive and won't be thick like Cherry.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Do Cherry sell full key set of double shots to replace on their keyboard ? Just wondering.

I saw the anti otaku, but it says they cannibalized older keyboards for the necessary keys.

Ever since that time i opened up my Logitech G15 keyboard and it stopped working, i've been hesitant to do it again @_@;

It seemed there was a wire connected to the LCD that should have been more careful with when opening.

[itlnstln]

I want the white 3000 with browns.  That's a hot 'board.  I'm typing on my G80-1863 HUMUS-2 today. I like me some double-shots.

Mmm... hummus...

[itlnstln]

Do Cherry sell full key set of double shots to replace on their keyboard ? Just wondering.

No, you have to harvest from another 'board.  Rumor is Cherry stopped making double-shots, but there is no real confirmation.  There seems to be new-stock Cherry keyboards in Asia with double-shots, so it seems like they are still in production, but those might be older keyboards in warehouses.  Who knows.

[lmnop]

I don't think so.

yes there is a ribbon cable on the G15 LCD that easily breaks.

you don't have to disassemble any Cherry keyboards you are simply removing the Keycaps.

[itlnstln]

The Cherry double shots are pretty easy to pull, too.  I can pull many of the keys on my 1863 with just my fingers.  The lasered (black) caps are POM.  Trying to pull one of those with your fingers is like trying to hold a stick of butter with Vaseline on your hands.

Yeah, I'm into some kinky stuff.

[lmnop]

lol

[lmnop]

I think everybody who owns a mechanical keyboard should learn to keep maintenance. warranties only cover a year and if you take care of your keyboard it will take care of you.

things you may have to do include

• soldering a mechanical key switch
• cleaning the keycaps
• using compressed air
• greasing a stabilizer

this is how easy it is to solder.

[lmnop]

lol

I think everybody who owns a mechanical keyboard should learn to keep maintenance. warranties only cover a year and if you take care of your keyboard it will take care of you.

what kind of maintenance?

• soldering a mechanical key switch
• cleaning the keycaps
• using compressed air
• greasing a stabilizer

this is how easy it is to solder.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Woah.

Whats the purpose of soldering them may i ask


From the screencaps i saw of Cherry, they said it was really easy to open the case. I saw one where they opened it so they could put a keylock for the windows button on the left side.

Is there any guide here which shows the process for opening the cherry keyboard safely ?

It only needs to be accessible enough so can use a vacuum to suck, and a cloth to wipe the dirt off from time to time.

Or would you suggest some sort of keyboard cover to type on instead ? Or is that not good ?


*update

Just saw the video. Wow for mechanical you need to desolder/solder to replace keys Wow :d ... i rather not cauz last time i did it, the circuit board broke back in high school long ago hehe.

[itlnstln]

Woah.

Whats the purpose of soldering them may i ask

If you need to replace a switch.

From the screencaps i saw of Cherry, they said it was really easy to open the case. I saw one where they opened it so they could put a keylock for the windows button on the left side.

Is there any guide here which shows the process for opening the cherry keyboard safely ?

While there is no guide that I know of, Cherrys are pretty easy to open.  They use a clip system on the case, and they're pretty easy to release with a key or butter knife.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

So there won't be some nasty surprise like the Logitech G15 where you need to be careful not to pull the wire out :d or something like that ?

To replace keys you don't need to desolder do you ? Thats just for switches ?

[lmnop]

Cherry MX switches are rated for 50 million strokes but that doesn't mean they will last that long.

Cherry keyboards are not difficult to disassemble. if you need help create a thread and grab a camera.

there are a couple ways to disable a Windows Key. you can do it physically via electronic, locking mechanism or even software.

you only need to use a soldering iron for LED or mechanical key switches. you can remove keycaps with a keycap puller, keycap puller wire, forceps, flat head screwdriver, etc. you can even make your own with a PCI bracket or paper clips.

[lmnop]

Cherry MX switches are rated for 50 million strokes (about 20 years) but that doesn't mean they will last that long.

Cherry keyboards are not difficult to disassemble. if you need help create a thread and take photos.

there are a couple ways to disable a Windows Key. you can do it electronically, locking mechanism or software.

you only need to solder mechanical key switches and led. you can remove keycaps with a keycap puller, keycap puller wire, forceps, flat head screwdriver, etc. you can even make your own with a PCI bracket or paper clips.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

What does mr interface mean by low quality build ??

http://www.mrinterface.com/reviews/Keyboard%20%3A%20Cherry%20g80-3494


He says it's linear non tacticle non clicky for the lycus-2  cherry red. I saw the video and i liked how you type. imho i don't mind it not having the bumps actually :X

What concerns me is what he says about build quality ? What does he mean by that ?

[itlnstln]

I think they're fine.  Cherry 'boards are light because they PCB-mount the switches vs. plate-mount like Filcos, but the build quality is fine.  I have never had a problem with my Cherry 'boards, and I don't particularly treat them kindly (I stuffed my 3000 in a desk drawer at work, for instance).

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Oh pcb mounts, i see :/

So you reckon the Cherry is better than the Majectoush ?

[itlnstln]

It's a little different, but I don't think one is any better than the other.  I sold my Filcos and kept my Cherrys, but that was only because the Cherrys are kinda rare.  I would just say buy which one looks better to you.  I would also suggest the Filco since they are a little easier to get.  Cherrys are hard to come by in the US (if you live here, that is).

[itlnstln]

I like brunettes, but that'll work.

[SirClickAlot]

What does mr interface mean by low quality build ??

http://www.mrinterface.com/reviews/Keyboard%20%3A%20Cherry%20g80-3494


He says it's linear non tacticle non clicky for the lycus-2  cherry red. I saw the video and i liked how you type. imho i don't mind it not having the bumps actually :X

What concerns me is what he says about build quality ? What does he mean by that ?

With low build quality I meant to say that compared to other keyboards ( for instance the Filco or Das professional ) the keyboard 'feels' less sturdy. This is due to PCB mounting the switches : there is no heavy metal sheet inside.
I personally prefer my keyboards to be very sturdy so that's why I made that remark.

Regards.

[MissileMike]

The cherry build quality isn't nearly as good as the filco- not even close.  The cherry feels like flimsy plastic, while the filco feels like a weighted precision instrument.

[itlnstln]

Throw a pound or two of lead in a Cherry, and you have about the same thing.  Heavy != quality.

[itlnstln]

I didn't say they were pretty.  Filco has Cherry on that one in spades.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Ok so in terms of build quality, filco wins.

But is it safe to say in terms of key print quality, Cherry wins Laser etched vs the regular print type key :X

I really hope elitekeyboards decide if their gonna sell the full set double shot key cap replacements :{

Also people said the Ducky is the same as the Filco but even better quality build as it is also laser etched.

So if i do go down the Filco route, isn't it better to get Ducky instead ?

[itlnstln]

If you read Ripster's key wiki, you will find that laser etching is not always better than pad printing (especially with Filco).  Get what you like, you won't go wrong with Filco, Cherry, Ducky or Das.  You seem to be stressing over little issues that don't really matter in the long run.

[itlnstln]

I could use some Boh tea.  It's freaking cold in the office today.  I'm having some NE clam chowder for lunch.

Oops, wrong thread.

[SirClickAlot]

Have some Boh tea.

Soothing.

Actually : the Boh tea I brought home from my trip to Malaysia is the best tea I have ever tasted.....

Regards.

[BigWopHH]

October 2010 called. It wants its thread back.