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Offline quadibloc

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 02 October 2010, 12:00:18 »
Quote from: Rajagra;228821
Of course, you can guess the environmentalists response - wait for it - they blamed global warming for the UKs declining wind!!!!!! Bwahahahaha. You couldn't make it up.
That might even have been correct, for all the good it would do.

Which, I suppose, might be said about another thing. When I first looked at the news item about the 'Ndragheta dumping nuclear waste in the Mediterranean, my first reaction was to wonder what, if anything, this had to do with the safety of nuclear power. It is, after all, possible to regulate nuclear power tightly enough that this sort of thing would be really, really difficult to even try - as the experience of the United States proves.

This is the fault of organized crime, not of any inherent dangers of nuclear power.

But cancer caused by radiation is just as deadly no matter whose fault it is, and we have to live in the real world - a real world in which organized crime hasn't been wiped out.

The thing is, of course, not only can we try harder to keep the nuclear fuel cycle on the up and up, but we can also pause to consider how much more crime there would be in a world impoverished by energy shortages.

Offline microsoft windows

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 02 October 2010, 16:05:30 »
Quote from: Ekaros;228919
Wind-power can be reliable in some parts of world but not all, which is a issue. Nuclear can work just about everywhere, atleast if you have solid ground...

Realy, you don't need even that, off-shore floating plants would work too...


I got to wonder how well windmills would do in a tornado or hurricane.
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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #52 on: Sat, 02 October 2010, 16:07:14 »
Quote from: Ekaros;228919
Nuclear can work just about everywhere, atleast if you have solid ground...


What about in Iran?
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Offline Ekaros

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 02 October 2010, 16:19:01 »
Quote from: microsoft windows;229064
What about in Iran?


Hmm, I don't belive that there is any strange field in Iran which prevents neutrons from spliting Uranium-atoms. Or is there something like it?
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Offline mike

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 04 October 2010, 02:59:57 »
Quote from: quadibloc;228771
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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 04 October 2010, 05:47:13 »
Quote from: Rajagra;228821
The winter before last (2008/9) the UK's wind farms ground to a halt for two weeks, when their output was most needed.

Of course, you can guess the environmentalists response - wait for it - they blamed global warming for the UKs declining wind!!!!!! Bwahahahaha. You couldn't make it up.

In 1986 a nuclear power plant exploded, when its energy was most needed.
Of course, you can guess the environmentalists response - wait for it - they blamed communism for the low security standards in Russia !!!!!!!!  Bwahahahaha. You couldn't make it up.


Extremists suck either way. Environmentalists are just as much of a joke as those opposing wind farms, saying they are "destroying their beautiful scenic environments, disturb them with noise and shadows and kill all the animals in a 50km radius".
Aside of some of those arguments being plain out rubbish (you would be surprised how much money wind farm developers pay for "bird studies" and "hamster studies" and "bat studies" and e.g. how strict the restrictions are on how close to any inhabitable space u may build), I like to ask opponents of wind energy the following when they bring up those arguments:
"So you really prefer those ginormous, lifeless holes in the landscape which are a result of coal mining? Or is it letting your children play on top of a nuclear dump-site that you prefer?"
It's always fun, to see their confused look and see them scramble when they are trying to rationalize what they were saying before. Usually they come up with something like "not really against renewable energy OF COURSE, maybe solar or tidal energy..."
The main problem with nuclear power is anyway that everyone thinks it's not a big deal and still the best way to produce power, as long as it is far away. Once a nuclear dump site is established in the vicinity of someones house, the ill-effects suddenly become so evident and it is time to oppose.
And don't let environmentalists fool you. No professional wind farm developer will tell you that we can live without nuclear power for the foreseeable future. But we can work towards living without it, instead of working towards living longer with it.

@your newspaper article

To make it short: "Infancy".

More elaborate: U mustn't forget that wind farms currently running are, for the most part, already ~10 years old (those that aren't, were most likely not standing still. The newspaper only talked about those standing still, naturally. It's news we talking about here and brittish news at that). The technology used for them is not the newest and when they were built, they were among the first ones to be built and no matter how carefully you plan, real life experience can never be compensated for (chernobyl *cough*). Therefore you can never exactly know what will be required of your tech, before you field test it over a long period of time.
And since the technology is in its infancy, the advancements every year are huge as well. Wind turbines and wings produced now and in recent years are very capable of dealing with harder weather conditions. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible for off shore wind farms to be constructed in the near future. The weather conditions there are not comparable to what u find on land. Even if the last 2 winters were quite tough in Britain.

On a sidenote: It doesn't surprise me, that this happened on the Island. Your market is way ****ed up. The way you block yourselves off from the rest of Europe and try to do everthing the "British" way is extremely stupid. As a result, it takes ages to plan and develop a wind farm in England (fortunately Scottland and Ireland are slightly better, haven't done business with Wales yet). As a result of it taking ages to plan, you sometimes cannot buy what is the newest tech on the market but have to stick with what you innitially negotiated with the turbine manufacturers.

That said, it can (and does) of course happen elsewhere as well.
However, conventional energy has taken decades of terrible accidents to develop to a point where they are as reliable as they are today.
If you think what price we have to pay to give wind energy the chance to grow up as well, I think that's more than acceptable.
If you say that wind energy is not an over-regional solution to saturate the power grid of a country and that conventional energies are necessary to balance out the power supply, you are correct, for the moment.

But there are already areas in the world (east-germany for example) where the saturation with wind farms is so great that they produce more energy than can be used in the power grid. And if you have enough surplus, then conventional energies are not necessary to compensate either, becuase it is near impossible that the wind stops blowing everywhere at once and that all wind farms are experiencing technical failures (due to for example extreme cold) at the same time.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 October 2010, 06:01:37 by Senor_Cartmenez »

Offline Rajagra

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 04 October 2010, 09:41:03 »
Quote from: Senor_Cartmenez;229494
blah, blah, infancy, blah, blah, England sucks, blah, blah...


You said "That energy gained through wind farms is not available when it's needed is outdated information." I gave a specific example that disproved your claim.

So now you backtrack and resort to the infancy excuse. You are saying that the problems will be resolved. That is an assumption. It is not a certainty. Many technologies start in their infancy and then ... fall by the wayside. Where are hydrogen fuel cells, the magic bullet for clean cars? Oh, that's right, they haven't overcome the "challenges" (that's what people in denial call problems) and it looks like they never will.

What is happening right now with wind farms? They provide intermittent power. Because it's intermittent, conventional supplies must exist to cater for demand. Conventional supplies only run efficiently at full power, and it isn't practical to turn them off and on, you can only run them slow on standby. So what happens when the wind farms are pumping out energy? The conventional generators have to run at expensive, inefficient levels, so they pump out disproportional amounts of greenhouse gases, partly negating the benefit of the wind farms.

Wishful thinking doesn't solve problems. Dealing with reality does. And the reality right now is that wind farms are no more than a salve for our guilty consciences. They need to make them work better or stop making claims they can't substantiate.

Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 04 October 2010, 11:48:39 »
England doesn't suck....
Your business practicess suck (in certain well placed areas, renewable energy development, banking, ...), margaret thatcher sucked and your food certainly sucks

But England doesn't suck per se ...

Quote
You said "That energy gained through wind farms is not available when it's needed is outdated information." I gave a specific example that disproved your claim.

No you didn't, you gave a news report (english news at that) about a random incident were a bunch of wind farms failed due to extreme weather conditions.

I gave you a random incident where a nuclear power plant failed. I think they compare and nuclear power looks grrrrrreat. I could give you some random examples for where coal energy production/mining failed, would look nice too, not as good as nuclear power of course...


I do not backtrack and I do not use infancy as an excuse. I use it to put it into context. When nuclear power was new and the kinks had to be worked out, stuff like chernobyl happened that ****ed up the entire world. When wind energy was in its infancy, a few wind turbines here and there stood still when the weather was extreme. It has since then been taken care off and shuldn't happen again. Big deal.


Quote
You are saying that the problems will be resolved. That is an assumption.

I am not saying they will be resolved and it's not an assumption either. I am saying they are resolved in certain areas and can be resolved in the near future everywhere.
Aside from new and unconventional technologies (like the one with the batteries in Japan, which sounds futuristic here but is being applied there for over a year now), the fact is that in certain areas there are so many good locations for wind farms and subsequently such a large number of wind farms have been built already, that these entire areas can be powered more or less without conventional energy production.
Granted, you need a higher "overkill"/surplus of power produced to ensure that it is available around the clock but the good thing about wind energy is that if you need more energy, you don't need to come back from the grave yet another 10 years later and cut off your grand grand children's penisses so they know who did it, you can just harvest more wind. With the increasing efficiency of turbines, this doesn't even have to mean that you destroy the beautiful scenery more and more and risk to negatively influence the environment in the long term.

Your link on "waht's happening with wind farms now" is from 2006. That's an eternity ago for a technology in its infancy. This information is the very definition of outdated.

At the moment wind energy cannot cover the entire demand for power in a country. This is mainly because it takes time to build up a network that can do that. Currently the network consists of coal energy and nuclear power production.

Nay sayers who can't look further than their next wanking session keep saying that that's the only way how energy can possibly be produced in a way that covers demand and that all tries to do so in a different way are ridiculous and stupid.
People who would like to have green trees, clean air and the ability to grow some veggies in their garden 30 to 50 years from now prefer to do something and take it from there, rather than just waiting for a magic cold fusion or other technology to drop in their laps while sitting around, polluting the planet and prepare for yet another wanking session.


It's the best technology we have and the EU wouldn't be making its member states subsidise it so heavily if it didn't have a good chance at being a long term solution (and we can see that already today).

Then again the EU is just a big joke and full of chumps, I fogrot. Wish we could have the empire back ... good times.
« Last Edit: Mon, 04 October 2010, 11:51:59 by Senor_Cartmenez »

Offline wellington1869

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 04 October 2010, 12:26:18 »
dont the dutch generate electricity from the tides underwater along the beach (or something)?

(i mean in addition to their windmills)

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Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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« Reply #59 on: Tue, 05 October 2010, 05:48:31 »
Quote from: wellington1869;229620
dont the dutch generate electricity from the tides underwater along the beach (or something)?

(i mean in addition to their windmills)

Not only the dutch. That tech is very promising as well but if wind energy is in its infancy, tidal energy is still a toddler :)

Same as geo-thermic energy.

Both promising and potentially good techs but still A LOT of kinks have to be worked out there. Keeping turbines running under water and servicing them under water when you obviously put them in areas where there are extremely strong currents is still tough to realize. But it works for now and it will show in the coming years if it is a long term solution/piece to the puzzle and how far the efficiency can be increased. Or if it will be another fail like solar energy in central europe.

Geo-thermic energy is also promising but I am not utterly convinced about it. Mainly because one cannot really say what happens when you drill so deep into the earth and cannot exactly know what you will hit. In Germany they recently tried to power some government building complexes with geo-thermic energies. When they drilled, the hit a pocket of pressurized water and flooded an entire area in the city, took forever to close that off, they finally managed when the folks from BP arrived, thank god.

Project was cancelled afterwards...

But yeah, tidal energy production is a good tech to follow and in a few years or a decade maybe could be the next great advancement.
« Last Edit: Tue, 05 October 2010, 05:55:46 by Senor_Cartmenez »

Offline Konrad

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #60 on: Tue, 05 October 2010, 09:22:37 »
Do you know why all Dutch people are so tall? Because the short ones drowned.
 
I thought the real purpose behind windmills was to suck water?
 
Various forms of tidal power plants are already being used (and multiplying) in Japan. More under construction in Australia and :canada:.  The technology is "newer" than windy power, but just as sophisticated.
 
I wonder when the complainers are going to start *****ing about the "noise" generated by underwater turbines?  Or the threat they pose to fish dumb enough to get chopped by the blades?  Hell, maybe these plants will increase whale suicide rates, why not?

Offline wellington1869

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #61 on: Tue, 05 October 2010, 10:02:10 »
call me crazy but i'm 100% for free energy.

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Offline Konrad

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 05 October 2010, 10:22:58 »
tanstaafl, nothin's free.  Ever.
 
But having said that, the prices differ.  Moving wind and water cost much less than burning oil and nukonium.  The only way to save the whales is for all those stupid hippies to turn off their TVs.

Offline Senor_Cartmenez

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« Reply #63 on: Tue, 05 October 2010, 11:01:58 »
Quote from: Konrad;229936

I wonder when the complainers are going to start *****ing about the "noise" generated by underwater turbines?


epic

Offline wellington1869

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« Reply #64 on: Thu, 14 October 2010, 21:31:31 »
I'd buy the new chevy Volt. 74mpg, dual-engine (elec and gas). Car and Driver gives it a quite positive review. And I think it looks pretty damn good too.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/10q4/2011_chevrolet_volt_full_test-road_test

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Offline Ekaros

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 16:53:27 »
Is it only me or is the scale of issues wrong with Nuclear and other energy sources?

Atleast here the issues with reactors are the main news, people are buying Iodine and so on...

I still belive nuclear is best option in short and mid-term...
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Offline Lpb45

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« Reply #66 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:00:20 »
coal and hydroelectric still make up the majority of the worlds electricity
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Offline Ekaros

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« Reply #67 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:05:21 »
Quote from: Lpb45;311230
coal and hydroelectric still make up the majority of the worlds electricity


Hydroelectricity is working option, but not without issues.

Coal, there is the global warming and possible sulphur emmisions which leads to acid rains.

It just seems like people can't think about clearly without feelings about nuclear-energy. After Japan we should stop building more and replacing old ones, it's good to be against, but they should provide real options for it. Wind generaly don't seem feasible...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #68 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:12:30 »
I think there is nothing wrong with nuclear power.
The problem is the usage of uranium instead of thorium.
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Offline keyboardlover

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:16:16 »
Wow, you necroed a thread from back when your fellow Troll Welly was still here.

TROLL NECROOOOOOO

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Offline Ekaros

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« Reply #70 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:21:20 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;311238
Wow, you necroed a thread from back when your fellow Troll Welly was still here.

TROLL NECROOOOOOO

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It just seems like current affairs conserning this method of producting energy might be relevant at the time. And why make new on when there is perfectly good old one to resurrect?

BTW:
If you change your title to US Troll, I will change mine to Euro Troll ;D
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:28:03 by Ekaros »
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline JBert

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« Reply #71 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:25:00 »
Is it considered necro-posting when you started the thread? I'd call it "discussing incessantly" or "re-ranting" in that case.

Now there's nothing wrong with nuclear power. What's wrong is that uranium might become hard to get, that it's (relatively few) waste products are dangerous for thousands of generations and that it's only safe as long as we can trust maintenance of the reactors (hint: never trust a company with this when it still needs to make a profit).
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Offline keyboardlover

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:25:28 »
Sorry. I'm an ignorant American who knows nothing about when is or isn't the proper time to necro a thread. I DO know that some people unfamiliar with the English language find the term "necro" offensive though.

Offline Ekaros

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« Reply #73 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:31:37 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;311242
Sorry. I'm an ignorant American who knows nothing about when is or isn't the proper time to necro a thread. I DO know that some people unfamiliar with the English language find the term "necro" offensive though.


Corrected the usage of term to resurrect. Just for now.

Back to the topic, Japanese seem to have some issues with their powerplants and on more than on one them. Generaly some issues I have read about which's trutfulness I'm not entirely sure, like how their back-up back-up couldn't be connected due to lack of cables and adaptors seems quite worry some... Hope they have handled issues better elsewhere...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #74 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:51:13 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;311238
Wow, you necroed a thread from back when your fellow Troll Welly was still here.

Well, that clearly wasn't me.
Maybe next time Mr. Trollover.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #75 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 17:59:03 »
Lol. It's "Sir Troll-A-Lot" to you!

Quote from: Ekaros

BTW:
If you change your title to US Troll, I will change mine to Euro Troll ;D


Ok sounds good; you first.
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:04:55 by keyboardlover »

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #76 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 18:52:34 »
BTW, this is a great article for Euro snobs who think their poo don't stink.

Since you're "much less ignorant" than me, I assume you can read.

Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #77 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 18:59:43 »
I dunno...I'm just really sick of ignorant USA bashing really.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #78 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:06:45 »
Hey, don't be upset! EU sucks as well.
Sheep are everywhere.
We just enjoy sucking your blood.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #79 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:12:17 »
I think both have their pros and cons. But I don't bash the EU so I don't appreciate my country being bashed either. I try to look at the positive side of countries as much as possible anyway. Much more constructive attitude than the alternative.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #80 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:25:50 »
Also much more ignorant.... Countries are ruled by a buch of liars, but let's forget about politics.
I don't have any kind of national pride, or such nonsense. It is not something what we can chose, therfore it is not our merit.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #81 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:31:44 »
You obviously don't have pride in anything else either, which is why you troll.

Typical Cherry black user. Nihilist.


Offline RiGS

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« Reply #82 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 19:56:24 »
I'm sure you haven't. Probably that's why you reflect all your sadness on me.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #83 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 20:02:13 »
Actually, one of us is truly sad. And it ain't me.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #84 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 20:05:52 »
Oh, I'm having fun.
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Offline keyboardlover

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« Reply #85 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 20:12:06 »
You obviously don't understand my use of the word "sad" in this context.

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #86 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 20:17:16 »
Well English is my third language. Feel free to enlight me on this.
However I'd rather get back to the original topic.
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Offline keyboardlover

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #87 on: Sun, 13 March 2011, 20:19:19 »
"Sad" can be a synonym for "pathetic". =)

Offline quadibloc

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #88 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 17:12:31 »
Quote from: RiGS;311236
I think there is nothing wrong with nuclear power.
The problem is the usage of uranium instead of thorium.
I think that the failure to use thorium in addition to uranium, or even more specifically, the failure to use Th-232 and U-238 in addition to U-235, is definitely a problem.

U-233 made from Th-232, just like Pu-239 made from U-238, is fissionable, and can be used to make bombs. There are some potential advantages from a proliferation standpoint to the Thorium cycle, IIRC, but they don't remove the need to keep all fissionable materials in responsible hands.

Offline Soarer

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #89 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 18:34:35 »
Bloody BBC.

According to John H. Large, it's bad. All bad.

He's entitled to his opinion, of course. As soon as he opens his mouth it's clear that it's nothing remotely close to an objective one, and that he deserves to be ignored. He's declaring that meltdown has already happened is all those reactors with cooling problems, and that the radiation leaked so far is very much higher than has been revealed officially. He also claims that the containment vessels would not be able to contain a meltdown.

While one might accuse the Japanese government of being optimistic, the sheer number of people measuring radiation would make any cover-up of the scale of leaks thus far implausible.

What's truly objectionable though, is the BBC wheeling him on as an 'independant nuclear energy expert'. He is evidently far more qualified as an expert in doom-mongering and talking out of his ass. He has worked with Greenpeace a number of times, and clearly shares their views, yet no mention was made of this. No doubt the BBC do it in an effort to provide a 'balanced' (sic) viewpoint, but can't they find anyone occupying the vast amount of ground between the 'officials' and the nutjobs?

/rant

Offline Soarer

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #90 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 18:55:31 »
I think you might be misunderstanding me. I am a cynic. But giving a platform to total nutjobs does nothing to increase understanding of an issue. Quite the opposite, as refuting the nutjobs is easy, but avoids addressing the trickier points of any debate.

Offline Konrad

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #91 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:40:06 »
It's just thread recycling.  Good for the digital environment.

Offline Konrad

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #92 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:42:42 »
I'm still waiting for atomic radioisotope batteries.  They promised us (last year) that these would be on the shelves already.

Offline Oqsy

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #93 on: Mon, 14 March 2011, 23:48:05 »
No one does it better than America.

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Offline manfaux

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #94 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 00:12:43 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;228663
Let's not forget that China has fewer constraints on Capitalism than we do, which puts them much closer to the risk of crisis than us. I predict a crisis will hit them worse than ours in the near future.

But everything we're discussing is merely conjecture anyway :D

All 4 major Chinese commercial banks are state-owned, as opposed to our white house, which is being practically run by Wall Street.

on the subject about economic crises, in 1997, the financial meltdown literally wiped out the entire southeast Asia, along with South Korea, while the Chinese were virtually unaffected, because unlike the vast majority of Southeast Asian investments, almost all of China's foreign investments(which are heavily regulated by the state - instead of, say, Goldman Sach's CEO) took the form of factories on the ground rather than securities, which insulated China from a rapid capital flight.

if anything China has arguably the strictest constraints on capitalism out of all these big nations, certainly a better system than ours.

Offline Konrad

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« Reply #95 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 01:44:22 »
The greatest crisis which could face China's capitalism would be America withdrawing the money/materials which fuel Chinese industry and the consumers who demand cheap Chinese products.  Not that it matters much, there's plenty of other nations to support Chinese productivity, starting with North Korea, the rest of Asia, the (former) USSR, and the Euros.

Offline Ekaros

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #96 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 04:17:29 »
Quote from: Konrad;311946
The greatest crisis which could face China's capitalism would be America withdrawing the money/materials which fuel Chinese industry and the consumers who demand cheap Chinese products.  Not that it matters much, there's plenty of other nations to support Chinese productivity, starting with North Korea, the rest of Asia, the (former) USSR, and the Euros.


This would end up in final nail of USAs coffin. It's kinda strange system, some money going in china, but more money coming to USA as debts...
So I should add something useless here yes? Ok, ok...
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Offline quadibloc

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 04:32:28 »
Here's an alternate take on the recent events in Japan.

Offline speakeasy

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 08:03:49 »
That's a great article to put things into perspective quadi.

Another link I found interesting Geiger counter in Tokyo.
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Offline Soarer

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A heavier topic: So nuclear power is good?
« Reply #99 on: Tue, 15 March 2011, 13:32:08 »
Quote from: ripster;312172
Hmmm.....damn, one of those times I wish I wasn't always right.

iMav needs to include the time stamp in Vbulletin Quote HTML to make them more useful for "I Told You So"s, otherwise the pain of ZULU Military Time  wasn't worth it.


Right about what exactly?