Author Topic: Sound and tactility  (Read 3653 times)

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 02:08:39 »
Gaming with my Blue Cherries has lead me to appreciate how much the sound of these switches affects our perception of their tactility. The Blue Cherry MX switch initially seemed to be a very tactile switch to me. But after a typing session with some headphones on, and music blasting through my ear, my understanding of the switch was flipped on end. While playing loud music, I could not hear the click of the switch, and the as a result tactile feel seemed much more subtle than I had believed. Given that experience, I wanted to try the same thing with all the different switches I have access to. That is, I wanted to eliminate sound from the equation, and focus solely on the pure tactile feel of switches. I set some loud on a loop, and started typing. Here are my thoughts on the actual feel of these switches.

I have a fairly good variety, but I don't have Cherry Browns nor do I have Topre switches. Feel free to chime in with opinions about those.




Model F (PC AT Keyboard):

Tactility:
Very noticeable. The spring fights back much more than a cherry blue. The activation point is crisp, and the "hysteresis" effect is minimal. There is almost no feel of friction in the switch.
Sound:
Awesome. A very crisp click, of similar volume to blue cherries, but not nearly as sharp. My particular board has a lot of pinging from the springs. Overall, it is my loudest keyboard.



IBM Model M (1993 52G9658, no missing rivets):

There is a lot of variability in Model Ms, so I chose my favorite board, the one that I think is in the best shape of all my model Ms.
Tactility:
Very noticeable. The tactile point is somewhat less "crisp" than a model F, but somehow is more obvious to the fingers (I can't explain it).  The springs fight back a lot, and it feels significantly stronger than the Model F. It also fights back much more after the activation point. Overall, it is much more similar to the Model F than I had thought, differing mainly in that it feels very heavy. There is slightly more friction than the model F, but less than other switches. You probably know what it sounds like already.
Sound:
Quite good. It sounds like a muted Model F. Of only average loudness - it is quieter than blue cherries. You probably know what it sounds like already.



Blue Cherry (Filco Majestouch):

Tactility:
These feel very light in comparison to the buckling spring switches. They also bottom out hard, perhaps due to the lightness of the keys more than anything. The tactile feel is very subtle in comparison to the buckling spring switches. It also has an odd "stickiness" when you slowly release the key. This is due to the way the key resets (take a look at the flash animation of how it works, and its force diagram). In practice, the "stickiness" is completely unnoticeable. You have to move the key very slowly to even notice it. The tactile feels is also very subtle when typing. There seems to be slightly more friction than a Model M.
Sound:
Very nice. Very crisp, and high-pitched (the highest pitch of any). Also quite loud, comparable to a model F in volume.




Futaba (Sejin ErgoKomfort SKM-2040):

Tactility:
These feel almost linear when typing. The tactile point is even more subtle when compared to the blue cherries. They are very light, slightly lighter than blue cherries. They do not feel "frictiony" at all. The "release" is much more tactile than the initial actuation.
Sound:
Odd, not sharp at all. Fairly quiet, overall. They are louder on the upstroke.



Complicated White Alps (some brand-less keyboard):

Tactility:
These are very tactile, the most tactile of any of the switches I have tried. These are very "frictiony", but this may be due to the dusty environment they were in for years. They are more comparable to BS than I expected, and feel heavier.
Sound:
Sharp, quieter than blue cherries, and much lower pitch than blue cherries. They have a good sound to them.



Black Alps (Dell AT-101W):

Tactility:
Very subtle tactility, mostly right at the beginning of the stroke. These particular switches were exposed to a dusty environment for years, so this may not be accurate.
Sound:
These do not click.



Black Cherry (Some brand-less keyboard):

Tactility:
These just feel heavy to me. BS are lighter, but they sure don't feel that way. Weight aside, these actually feel quite good. They do not feel as "frictiony" at all, and it is actually not too hard to avoid bottoming out. I can see how Red Cherries might be a great switch, since the weight is honestly the only thing that bothers me about blacks. They are otherwise a quite nice switch.
Sound:
These do not click.



Rubber domes (Saitek Eclipse II and Microsoft Natural Keyboard):

Tactility:
Good, much better than people give them credit for. Annoyingly heavy, though, which I had not really realized. They just feel more difficult to depress than mechanical switches, even the very heavy Buckling Springs. My Saitek also feels very wobbly and "frictiony", just awful in comparison to my Filco. The MS Natural fairs much better, but still suffers from the initial bump in pressure. Honestly, the shoddy construction kills these keyboards more than the underlying technology. I can understand why Topre boards are so well liked; a well-made rubber dome board with lighter switches seems like it would feel great! Sadly, I have never felt a topre switch, and so cannot compare.
Sound:
These are by far the quietest switches of the bunch. Even linear mechanical switches are louder (they bottom out harder).



Selectric (IBM Selectric III):


Tactility:
Much more linear than I thought. The tactility comes from the "thud" of the typing ball smashing against the page, and reverberating through the machine back to you fingers. The keys are very light, similar to blue cherries and Model F keys. Model M keys are much heavier than this. The actuation is strange, since the machine almost seems to pull the key away from you when it activates. As such, it is very easy to avoid bottoming out the keys. In fact, I never really bottom them out at all when I type on it.
Sounds:
The roar of an angry god. Which is to say, awesome. The Selectric is an extremely loud typing experience, not even comparable to other mechanical key switches. Those occasional bursts of speed when you are typing a very familiar word or phrase sound like a machine gun blasting letters onto the page




Best typing experience, overall:
Selectric, hands down. Nothing else even comes close.

Okay, okay, that isn't quite fair...

Best typing experience, for real now:
The Model F, Model M, and Blue Cherries were the obvious choices. From a tactility point of view, they are all wonderful switches to type on, and I would be perfectly content with any of them. But the Model M is heavy, and the Blue Cherries have this slightly sticky quality to them. The Model F switches have no downsides - they are simply the best switches I have ever typed on. Still, you are limited to 122-key terminal boards and the PC AT keyboard, and Model Ms and Cherry boards have superior layouts. The Model F keyboards are better for "pure typing", but they are not so much better that they justify the inferior layout. I would give the tactility crown to Blue Cherries and Model M buckling springs.

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 07:44:33 »
Thanks! That was a very nice read and quite enlightening from the point of view of someone living where there is almost nothing else than rubber domes (except maybe some old buckling springs dug in in countryside schools, I guess).

I lament the loss of a model F I once had but maybe it could still be recovered. I'd have to talk to the family members who "inherited" the whole computer some ten years ago. Unless it was my step-father who put the keyboard somewhere else.

Anyway, I'm soon going to have a feel of the blue switch with the TVS keyboard... ordering quite a bunch of them directly from TVS. Will be able to compare. Maybe in the meantime one F or the other will come my way. Right at the moment, however, I'm typing on an M with keycaps removed. It does feel different. Much crispier and as if less travel to do (in reality the difference is little), although more bottoming out. I have a hunch typing is slightly faster this way. It enables finger sliding and rolling etc. more than before, while those folks who don't like "shiny" keys probably wouldn't like this either. Maybe you'd like to try?

Offline Rajagra

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 08:15:49 »
A quick observation of something I just noticed. Topre keys don't make much sound during the up or downstroke - other than the infamous sound of the soft landing. It's when you take your finger off the key that you get the clack sound. And it's much louder if you release the key so quick that your finger breaks contact early, so the momentum of the key hitting the end stop creates the percussive sound. This explains why online videos of people typing on them sound much louder than my own typing. That was confusing me before.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 13:49:48 »
I was sort of at a loss as how to describe the key feel of the Selectric. It is completely different from computer keyboards. It also feels very different from other older electric typewriters I have tried (Underwoods with standard arms and hammers, but electric motors to help to action). No wonder IBM dominated the market so much.

Thanks for the link to the cleaning guide, both my Selectrics need an overhaul. My Selectric II, in particular, smooshes together letters and indexes down a line on random occasions.

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 14:38:23 »
I really want to buy a Selectric I off eBay, but am leery of their mechanical state.

Perfect example. Great price, but no guarantee that you will ever get it working.

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Offline chrs

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:16:16 »
On the sound issue, I tried a little freeware program that allows you to play your choice of .wav file each time a key is hit (including selectric sound samples.  It's terrible, because the delay is too long between a key activating and getting the sound.  I might try with shorter .wav files, but I'm too discouraged by the first experience to be motivated.  I'm thinking that something more hardware based (but still electronic) might work better.  Anyone know of any better hardware or software for that?

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:22:51 »
http://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm

Close to instant response. The sounds don't keep up with my typing, though, and I'm not a particularly fast typist.

A good hardware solution would be to put a little mechanism in the keys which clicks as soon as the key activates. :rofl:

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Offline chrs

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:36:13 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;228154
http://www.grc.com/freeware/clickey.htm

Close to instant response. The sounds don't keep up with my typing, though, and I'm not a particularly fast typist.


Thanks--much nicer than the other I tried.  Does a better job of keeping up with my typing.  I'll try that for a while.  Good selection of sounds, too.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:53:54 »
Back on topic:

All these ALPS boards I rescued from the junk pile feel like crap. The switches don't seem at all fouled by dust, and I cleaned the insides of some of the switches just to test them. They are extremely stiff when you hit them off-center, almost to the point where you can't depress them. The Dell AT101Ws feel especially awful. For comparison, the cherry black boards I found in the same pile feel smooth as butter despite being very dirty.

ALPS can't be that bad, can they? Do they just age poorly?

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Offline ch_123

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 15:57:47 »
Yes. Even if there's no visible contamination in the switch, they don't age well.

Even in good condition, they're still pretty meh. The White/Blue Alps are good though.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:04:22 »
What I like more than anything is the hum of the motor turning on. It's the Selectric's way of telling you "time to type, *****!"

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Sound and tactility
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 29 September 2010, 17:20:30 »
I think she's into that sort of thing.

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