Help choosing nkro/gaming keyboard

[MaximilianKohler]

I'm really just buying a new keyboard because I need something that I can press multiple keys and have them all register(I use the yghj keys rather then wasd - but I just changed to them and if I need to switch I don't want to have to buy a new keyboard). I would go with the microsoft sidewinder x4 for $40-50 but my friend has been suggesting a mechanical one, and I've been reading hours of threads about them and I want one.

I would go with the Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO filco, but I have trouble bringing myself to spend $150 on a keyboard... only other option I know of is the razer for $80 but it doesn't have 6nkro like they claim. I read this http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=NKey+Rollover+-+Overview+Testing+Methodology+and+Results
and for the razer if ctrl-aq is the only part it fails on, that wouldn't be a problem... I would never use that combo even if I used the wasd keys because I'd use the same finger for a and q
Also, I'm kind of worried about the sound being too loud when I need silence during games with my open air headphones. But I guess if it's the only other option I could wait and test it when it comes out in stores(anyone know when that'll happen?)

The steelseries are not an option for me because I tried the 7g and the black switches are way too hard to press for gaming(were decent for typing).

It also seems odd that filco only offers 1 year warranty when these mechanical keyboard are supposed to outlast membranes by many years...


BTW anyone know if the non-nkro filcos have 4 or 6 nkro at least? That's all I really need...
also, if I can get decent nkro with the razer on ps/2 is there a significant disadvantage vs usb? like lower response time?

hmm, just found this http://dealnews.com/Rosewill-USB-Wired-Slim-Mechanical-Keyboard-for-75-free-shipping/393750.html
seems to be the perfect fit besides the blue switches :/
ugh coupon code is dead >.<
still it has nkro and is $50 cheaper(shipped) then filco nkro, only problem is I don't get to choose brown switches... but every "gaming" board I've seen excluding steelseries blacks have been blues...
I see a bunch on amazon but none of them say what type of switch or whether they have nkro :/ halp!

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

#1. Ducky 9008 black on black key caps ( choices of switches are Cherry MX brown, blue or black )
Remarks: Better build than the Filco such as uses laser etched keys; in fact it looks very similar to the Filco. Imho better value considering the launch promotion that gives you a full set of free key caps + white w a s d key caps + key puller. Can buy through the Ducky Channel website, or through the Singaporean bulk purchase which i recommend. If your from Singapore you can get this for  165 SGD. For me i have to pay an additional 22.2 SGD for the shipping.
http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=1591787&st=0#entry36887735
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andytn/sets/72157623746243676/with/4480797579/

#2. Majestouch Tactile Touch NKRO filco (Cherry Brown)
Remarks: Good however they use pad printed key methods. Sure they are better than regular pad printings, however i rather prefer better key print types. The availability of the Filco is much better than the Cherry and Ducky. You can order from Elitekeyboards or other resellers.

#3. Cherry G80-3494 (Cherry Red)
Remarks: Has POM laser etched keys; however the backplate is using plastic. The Filco in comparison has a metal backplate and feels much more sturdy. The only way to get this keyboard is through the use of Tabao Chinese agents that charge 15 % service fee based on the product price. Also one reviewer who tried a Cherry red key switch keyboard, mentioned in his review how when he rested his fingers on some keys without intending to press, sometimes it will accidentally register without his notice. Reds according to him are way softer then the browns because they are basically browns but linear. Compared to the brown he tried before, he never had that problem. With that in mind i think brown is much more ideal, because although it is tactile, the bump isn't too hard, and it feels linear if you press down on keys all the way.)


They all support full nkro even when using a usb to PS2 adapter. This is not possible with a Deck Legend unless you get the native PS/2.



PS: 165.00 SGD     =     126.340 USD

And + additional shipping cost from Singapore to whatever location you are from. for me it is 22.2 SGD from SG to Malaysia. basically this Ducky bulk is cheaper than the Filco and you get free stuff which makes it a bargain if your getting your first mechanical keyboard like i am.

Not all mechanical keyboard are the same, you must decide which switch you want.





Brown(Lover's Dream) has a soft bump to let you know you have hit the key. Very soft and gentle on the fingers.

Blue(Typist Dream) has the classic clicks. Some tend to get annoy by the sound. Also has a bump like brown but abit stronger.

Black(Nazi's Dream) are for nazi fingers. If ibm model m are too light for u, black will be great for u. No bump.


Performance review

Typing :
Blue : AWESOME (will annoy surrounding people)
Black : Short messages are fine. Anything longer is too harsh for me.

Gaming :
Blue : Double-tapping becomes an issue due to the high release point
Black : Awesome but not for me as i need the tactile feel.



I totally recommend you take a look at Mr Interfaces website and see his reviews for the keyboards.

http://www.mrinterface.com



To better understand about the different types of grades for keyboard for you to make a better informed purchase, i suggest reading this introductory guide to keyboards.

http://www.overclock.net/computer-peripherals/491752-mechanical-keyboard-guide.html

[Arc'xer]

That's the mx black for you, judging from your post.

The biggest problem with the mx black is the fact they take so long to break in that they do feel better over time but only a noticeable bit. Unfortunately, the way the mx blacks are they can take months if not years to break in.

Ironically I've been typing on browns for months now and recently began to use my linear force filco again and for some reason it's not as horrible as it used to be it still it's much different compared to the browns, somewhat refreshing but at the same time reminds me of those resistive shock absorbers that make a rushing air sound every time they compress.

Another thing might be key caps I'm sure with better key caps in general it should change some of the feeling.

The reason why the MX black are so promoted for gaming and I'd say primarily FPS is because of their linear factor. No interfering tactile bump instead they are a linear-progressive(increase in resistance subtly and in a straight line), they are very smooth, they don't chatter as much as the browns which also makes them quieter, and they have a nearly central dead-zone. They can be tapped like crazy they sound like a machine gun sounding like a series of chattering teeth. And some people have learned to ride the actuation point it's more of a hassle and might be just some bolstering but I think it's more of a situational accidental, heat of the moment so sometimes you find yourself realizing your spamming a key without bottoming out.

But their high force and resistance is the sad factor. Look at how different it is compared to the other switches. The other switches have longer and slightly thinner springs, while the mx black is short and thicker.

There is nothing wrong with using linear switches for typing in fact I'm actually a fan but because of the way the mx black are they have a negative stigma around here.

I mean they are a hell of a lot better than 90% of the membrane top dome keyboards around and even some of the higher quality rubber domes. But if only they were a little bit lighter and less resistive they'd actually be more commenly liked around here.

This is why people want the cherry mx reds because it's linear with a resistance similar to the browns. Instead of cherry mx black 40-60-80cN it's 35-45-60. Though reds might also bring their own negatives in being too light unlike the browns being linear, you can't tell when to stop. With the browns despite the similar weight of the reds even though they are very light the momentary bump causes a reaction in you to not bottom out and you catch yourself beforehand. So the tactile bump also acts as an interference since it quickly rises in force temporarily, which is why you don't see much complaints about browns being too light for gaming and accidental key presses.

Edit: What I meant was you can feel the area just before the bump starts on the browns so it stops you from going further, if you rest your fingers on the key. It's not a major divide but it's sure to give a mental pause and pull back.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

@Arc'xer

Very insightful. I think that is the best review i ever read concerning the roundup of the other switches.

Yeah i still think the brown is best for me :X i type and i game. Brown seems the best compromise.

[MaximilianKohler]

Thanks guys, as I said before I've been reading about mechanical keyboards a couple days and many hours(been up all night tonight reading the 60page thread about the razer) so I know about the different switch types. My problem is finding an affordable one with at least 4-6nkro on all keys and preferably brown switch.

I don't see a way to buy or find the price on this site you mentioned http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-TW&u=http://www.duckychannel.com.tw/&ei=u1ewTNKvI4TmsQOF9r2AAg&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DDucky%2BChannel%26num%3D100%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3De3D%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26prmd%3Dvb

and I can't find "the Singaporean bulk purchase which i recommend"

I think I've been editing my first post before I saw your replies x)

[~Blood~]

I will take browns too, reason is the following:

linear, blacks are nice if you need a somehow analog feel to control the game, ie you are running around in an fps game, or controlling an apache/blackhawk in battlefield. While you do that, you'll need to change the direction continuously and a tactile feel or click will just get in the way because it slows down the correction of your direction and create a somehow asynchronous key travel to movement ratio.

browns or blues however are nice if you play for example RTS, RPGs or other games. Blues will somehow suck due to double tapping (though its stil unlikely) but browns are nice. browns are much lighter too.

If you look at controllers for fighting games like street fighter, especially sanwa switches, you will notice that they are linear and have almost no actuation force required, i never tested it but they actuate as soon as you press. they have reduced key travel too. I think thats the optimum but you just cant reach it with a keyboard. maybe ill custom mod a controller for a game thats worth it.

[MaximilianKohler]

Yeah I play cs 1.6 where you have to double tap a lot for crouch hopping, so I'm a little worried about paying $50 less for a blue instead of brown... it really really sucks that you can't test these keyboards in a store ._.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

The Singapore bulk for the Ducky 9008 with black on black keys, US English layout, is here.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/mass-order-forum/861057-mo-2-cherry-mx-ducky-108-keys-mechanical-keyboards-free-bonus-keycaps-4.html#post8658212


I compiled a summary of all the details here.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=1591787&st=0#entry36887735



Like i said, Ducky is your best choice because that SG bulk is offering a good deal even when you include shipping costs. You won't get a better deal than this trust me o_O;

it's 165 SGD to ship directly from Taiwan to SG. additional shipping costs for shipping to your own country, for me it's 22.2 SGD to Malaysia :X

[~Blood~]

note that some keyboards have different switches in space bars

look at the cherry mx thread for that

the best for you would probably be cherry reds, i asked elitekeyboards and tehy said that a japanese company has the license for those and they dont know until when

[~Blood~]

is the ducky even tenkeyless? if not..

[MaximilianKohler]

The Singapore bulk for the Ducky 9008 with black on black keys, US English layout, is here.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/mass-order-forum/861057-mo-2-cherry-mx-ducky-108-keys-mechanical-keyboards-free-bonus-keycaps-4.html#post8658212


I compiled a summary of all the details here.

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f=21&t=1591787&st=0#entry36887735



Like i said, Ducky is your best choice because that SG bulk is offering a good deal even when you include shipping costs. You won't get a better deal than this trust me o_O;

it's 165 SGD to ship directly from Taiwan to SG. additional shipping costs for shipping to your own country, for me it's 22.2 SGD to Malaysia :X

I don't know if I'm just hard in the head or what but I'm still not seeing a place to buy it in those links... I do see a price of $165 though which is even more then the filco which has everything I want just a high price tag to go with it.

[MaximilianKohler]

note that some keyboards have different switches in space bars

look at the cherry mx thread for that

the best for you would probably be cherry reds, i asked elitekeyboards and tehy said that a japanese company has the license for those and they dont know until when

Yeah I was looking for a red switch board a couple days ago after reading a bunch on this stuff, but I guess they're extremely hard to find and I'm not willing to pay more then $150 for a new board, and I'd really like to keep it below a hundred... I think I would like the feeling of knowing when the switch actuates... it was kind of annoying with the 7g to not know how far I needed to push it.

I guess it's just between the filco brown or the rosewill... I'd like to wait till the razer comes out in stores so I can see if a blue would be ok for me, but I don't think I can wait that long... I'm using a really crappy SS zboard atm which I need to return soon ._.

[~Blood~]

a blue might seriously suck for your needs. What does a red cost? I think ~170$ ? I don't know what I'd prefer, build quality or switch feel, but it would probably be switch feel. Hey, theres always the option of soldering your cherry red switches into a new filco case if the cherry plastic thing breaks!

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Sign up to vrzone forum. Post in the bulk thread saying u want to join the bulk. Alternatively private message Small Walrus.

Small Walrus is the bulk organizer you should talk to him.

All the details are there man :/


165.00 SGD = 126.388 USD http://www.xe.com  to calculate what it is in your own currency.


The Majestouch from the elitekeyboards site cost is 134.00 USD  =  174.937 SGD. This hasn't even calculated the shipping cost. But to be fair unless your from SG, your gonna have to pay shipping cost as well. But i suspect it will still be cheaper then the Filco and you get more free stuff. Ducky is a better build then Filco.

[~Blood~]

buy the red switches and when it breaks solder them into the tenkeyless filco, then give me 4 red switches for my arrow keys in my filco tenkeyless brown! and maybe one for my space bar

[Kairxa]

I use AD700 + Filco blues, and I don't hear anything while playing games. So blues + open-air headphone is not a problem.

P.S.: Well, maybe a little, but it won't be any problem. Not even for my room neighbor. I even type/play at 3-4 a.m.!

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

I'm using ATH-A900

U another audio technica fan :} ?? nice taste

[Kairxa]

Not really an ATH fans, but I do love AD700

[MaximilianKohler]

heh I have ATH AD-700 as well, people were saying that if you went to lan with a blue switch board people would hate you, and lans are already really loud, so I was assuming it would be even worse at home with open air headphones...

what game(s) do you play with blues kairxa? it's hard to believe that blues are so bad for gaming if most of the gaming mechanicals are made with blue switches... but maybe they're just not directed at fps gamers...

with this membrane keyboard I let the key up all the way when repeatedly hitting it quickly to crouch run... so I don't really think blues would be that bad, I just think I'd like a brown > blue but not sure if it's worth the extra $50

hopefully there's someone else on this forum who needs to repetitively hit keys quick & has tried blues and browns or at least blues..

anyone know if any of the <$100 boards here have nkro or at least 4-6kro? http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_19?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=mechanical+keyboard&sprefix=mechanical+keyboard
also, preferably not the ones with blue/black or heavier switches

[Kairxa]

I usually play FPS, L4D2 and such. I don't think a "burned in" blue switches will be that annoying, since I don't feel bothered by their sound. And I don't feel any differences with playing FPS using membrane board or my filco.

But I do feel a lil bit reluctant though  I mean, it's a $150 keyboard, I don't want to "crush" it. You know what I mean, right?

Here, a test of double tapping in blues:

II''mm ttrryyiinngg ttoo ddoouubbllee ttaappiinngg hheerree.

See, it's easy. And I play freejack, if you know what kind of game it is. At least it needs double tapping and I don't find any problem other than the timing.

P.S.: for a game that needs to repetitively hit keys quick. I do that in o2jam and somewhat find the blues annoying, since it actuates a lil bit faster than the right timing to do it. So if you do not play a rhythm game like that, blues is not a problem.

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Typing :
Blue : AWESOME (will annoy surrounding people)
Black : Short messages are fine. Anything longer is too harsh for me.

Gaming :
Blue : Double-tapping becomes an issue due to the high release point
Black : Awesome but not for me as i need the tactile feel.

Blue is clicky tactile.


Stronger bump than brown, also makes clicky noises. Also for double tapping for games, it may not be so good. Ask other people, they will tell you the same.

Gamers tend to prefer black cherry, however if you type a lot it may not be comfortable.

The best compromise is the browns.

[Kairxa]

Stronger bump than brown, also makes clicky noises. Also for double tapping for games, it may not be so good. Ask other people, they will tell you the same.

I found it's easy to double tapping in blues. Actually it's quite fun :3

@Kohler
do yourself a favor and find best keyboard for you in here: LINK

[~Blood~]

as i said for quick inputs its best to have a key with low travel distance, linear and very low actuation force

thats what people in fight games use, and those inputs are crazy, believe me

[Kairxa]

Wow, and I think people using joypad for fighting games. Those who are playing fighting games in keyboard must be crazy bastards.

[MaximilianKohler]

To the  OP.

Have you looked at the Mechanical Keyboards Sorted By Switch wiki yet (main page)?

If you are USA then all the buying links are there and up to date.

Thank you! Just what I was looking for!!

@Kairxa, thanks, I'm not so worried about the blues for gaming anymore because of your double tapping demonstration

haha @ that dinosaur pic, that's what I was thinking for most of the thread when I was just receiving info on the different switches, when my post was about how/where to buy some! x)

[Arc'xer]

Wow, and I think people using joypad for fighting games. Those who are playing fighting games in keyboard must be crazy bastards.

He's talking about fightsticks, not keyboards. Specifically the Sanwas as they are ultra-light 25-35g.

[~Blood~]

and they have a convex key, not concav (whatever those words are in english).

[Kairxa]

He's talking about fightsticks, not keyboards. Specifically the Sanwas as they are ultra-light 25-35g.

ah, fightsticks. thx for the info

[MaximilianKohler]

hmm, just to update I tried the 7g(black switches) on display at my local frys & the keys were MUCH easier to press then the 7g I bought and returned.... either I got a bad one or the keys wear in quite a lot.

I'm still thinking I might prefer a tactile switch instead though since it tells me when the key's been actuated and I'd most likely prefer it for typing as well. So hard to choose without being able to type on one first ._.

Probably going to buy the iRocks KR-6230 but I wanna wait till I can try the razer in stores... god damn I hate waiting to buy stuff x_x

Thank you so much for making this article btw... http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Mechanical+Switch+Keyboards+Sorted+By+Switch soo helpful!

[tonyklo]

lol i just bought a 6gv2 recently Maximillian... was an esea-invite player in CS...

even though i stopped playing competitively, and only play ESEA pugs now ... but i felt the need to buy another mechanical keyboard as well...

i currently have a Filco with BROWN switches, and from my PERSONAL experience, i cannot play CS with this, it affects my movement too much... first it is impossible for me to crouch hop fast (i use SHIFT for crouch), and when i use WASD to quick peek corners or angles, i find myself peeking out too much at times...

so temporarily i've been using a random MS membrane keyboard that i got For $15 ... and i play way better with it...

hopefully the Black switches on the 6gv2 would be better for me : )


hope this helps

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Most people aren't WCG competitive players. My bro is and yes he tried the Steelseries mechanical black cherry keyboard :/

Hm .... i'll give the brown cherry a try on counter strike one i get it :/

[MaximilianKohler]

lol i just bought a 6gv2 recently Maximillian... was an esea-invite player in CS...

even though i stopped playing competitively, and only play ESEA pugs now ... but i felt the need to buy another mechanical keyboard as well...

i currently have a Filco with BROWN switches, and from my PERSONAL experience, i cannot play CS with this, it affects my movement too much... first it is impossible for me to crouch hop fast (i use SHIFT for crouch), and when i use WASD to quick peek corners or angles, i find myself peeking out too much at times...

so temporarily i've been using a random MS membrane keyboard that i got For $15 ... and i play way better with it...

hopefully the Black switches on the 6gv2 would be better for me : )


hope this helps

hmm very interesting... I'll definitely be waiting until the razer hits stores so I can try a tactile switch before I make up my mind. Can anyone comment on my experience with the difference with the 2 7g's I tried, with one feeling much easier to press then the other? I might end up getting the 6gv2 but I don't want to have to pound on it for an hour to get the lighter feel...

Which esea-i team were you on btw? Also, you shouldn't esea pug man... esea pugs are killing competitive cs...

[Arc'xer]

The differences shouldn't be that much, perhaps the one you used even though was a display model. Was used previously because it's highly unlikely with the amount of time people spend testing a keyboard, pressing a few keys, maybe a few sentences. Wouldn't break in as fast as a normal; hours long user.

Maybe the display model was a returned one that was used for a period of time and had already been loosened up. Though really since the mx black are meant for PoS/market terminals in some cases they can take months if not years to really be at their fullest broken in.

[tonyklo]

lol i've lost my drive to play competitive : )

i was on UMX (Ultimax-Gaming) & 9StorM . ~~

[tonyklo]

im guessing this is u on ESEA?
http://www.esportsea.com/users/218115
lol

btw
how's the AD 700 for cS?

my current headset, the Sennheiser PC350 is like breaking kinda..... feel like getting a new one ... but i honestly can't think of anything else that's more superior in-game / movies / music lol

[Arc'xer]

AD700 are considered one of the best bang for buck and slightly better than the HD555 in sonic tests plus they are very easy to drive with only 64ohms needed, not that having a little amp'ing is gonna hurt either. It's open-back though so noise is easier to penetrate to ears and it leaks sound out as well.

Still there are other headphones as well on the market. More pricier though and plus you should consider whether you want closed or open. And more so to a good high-quality sound card to boot so you get a much better source rather than the cheap as hell mobo sound DSP, which is something many don't consider when buying audiophile level cans/speakers. Then there's external equipment but that's not something your average consumer tends to spend on.

Though to be honest I've been a bit underwhelmed by them. Guess maybe I've gotten too used to them. Or it could be just the sound card I use despite it being the X-fi forte and considered a higher-end card it's not really as nice as I'd thought it be, guess I should have gone with the Xonar ST instead when I had bought the forte. Despite the asus's considered subjectively lesser gaming capabilities.

Either way the AD700 sound nice. But they never gave me that "I can close my eyes and track you perfectly kind of sound". I know it sounds silly to say but despite the AD700s being nice and all to me at least they have a bit of inaccuracy and difficulty in individualizing the position or exact direction of the person. Could just be me, could be lack of better audio equipment, or it could just be stereo factor but after a while I found them rather lacking even with CMSS-3D on and that makes them sound like ****. Depending on the person some might prefer Dolby, despite never hearing dolby myself, that could work or it could hurt the sound quality. Not to say I hate the ADs, just something about them nice at first but over time you start to notice things. Hell I even had people disappear from my hearing even in plain close visual sight of me and running, making noise.

I don't know to be honest I guess with something better things things might be different but audio equipment tend to get expensive and you need to separate the good **** from the bad.

As for your PC350 only reason they are popular is because they are a headset(driver mics) not headphones(just drivers). But in reality they don't sound good compared to better headphones, though they can be modded.

[tonyklo]

thanks for the reply... one down side is... since i was more of a serious/pro gamer... having an actual "headset" is quite important because using HD 555 / AD700 would require me to have a separate mic (Zalman for example) and those stand alone mics usually pick up so much background noise that was unacceptable for loud LAN events.  Thus, PC-350 was a good option.

PC-350 is definitely good for me until the leather thing on the ear cups started to fall off :/

Now I understand that there's a need for high-end sound card to produce good sound on a quality headphone... but honestly, since I was more concerned about getting the same sound at home and at lan, I simply use external USB sound card, but they tend to be quite ****ty.  If anyone know of a good USB sound card ,plz let me know as well !

Anyways, I guess i'm looking for a good headphone + USB sound card if anyone can help... although Counter-Strike tends to be tricky, because it cannot be too bassy in-game...

Let me know if u guys have any suggestion.  sorry for going off topic

[Rajagra]

I simply use external USB sound card, but they tend to be quite ****ty.  If anyone know of a good USB sound card ,plz let me know as well !

Might be worth checking out some of the USB sound cards they use for voice recognition. While they focus on mic input rather than sound output quality, at least you know the general quality is good.

Example: http://www.andreaelectronics.com/Buy/ProductDesc/USB-SA.htm

I've been tempted to get one of those super cheap USB sound cards you can get off ebay, but as you say, there are some very bad ones out there.

[MaximilianKohler]

I've noticed the same thing as Arc'xer. Though only in cs 1.6 with xtremegamer sound card. The sound doesn't seem to be as accurate as it could be... though these headphones are definitely superior to the 555's in every way. I used to always use CMSS-3D until I realized it was hindering my ability to tell if sounds were comming from front or back and now I leave it off for cs 1.6 and prefer it that way.

My friend who has tried $100+ headphones with $100+ soundcards got this http://a4tech.com/product.asp?cid=66&scid=67&id=441 and said it was much better then anything he's had previous & it's a fourth of the total price(soundcard+headphones). Not to mention he said it worked with eax enabled ingame and when he would alt tab all he had to do was switch room_type between 0 and 1 and it would normalize, which doesn't work with my setup. He was on winxp though btw and vista and win7 have different sound.

And yeah that's my esea page

[Arc'xer]

It could be the algorithms CMSS tends to be user-based, while Dolby tends to be environmental-based. So for some they prefer one over the other but still.

It just kinda disappointing not being able to hear as effectively. Maybe I'm expecting too much from audio but from what some have posted at different sites it seems like that's not the case and they are actually indeed hearing much better. Could be tweaks and tricks to the EQ for pure advantage but that's not the case and some are hearing it as is. In the words that best describes that some have posted "It's like I have two more eyes seeing the game".

[MaximilianKohler]

Arc'xer what game are you playing? For me the only game that doesn't have the best sound with this setup is cs 1.6. Other newer games all sound fine.

[Arc'xer]

Arc'xer what game are you playing? For me the only game that doesn't have the best sound with this setup is cs 1.6. Other newer games all sound fine.

I stopped playing games to be honest primarily because of my crappy computer at least for more modern games and don't get me started on CS I loathe that game can't believe I wasted time on it, I can probably write an article long enough to crash the entire server with all the problems of that game.

But either way any game really just doesn't really have that oomph, doesn't sound as nice as I would think. I guess at the same time there's a limit considering sound is one of the worst aspects of the majority if not all games even modern games continue to lack in the audio department, even worse when they decide to "Hollywood" up the sounds.

[zefrer]

But either way any game really just doesn't really have that oomph, doesn't sound as nice as I would think.

Really you think so? That's not been my experience. Good speakers/headphones and a good soundcard and the sounds seem satisfying.

Having said that there is a significant difference between my on board audio and a good discrete audio card (Xonar D2X in case you're wondering)