Author Topic: DOS gaming with modems! Help?  (Read 2520 times)

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Offline EverythingIBM

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 01:32:30 »
Okay, TCP/IP is starting to have its limits.

I was recently playing some DOOM 95 multiplayer matches, and it thankfully supports TCP/IP.

However... there are many other fun titles (strife, warcraft 2, heretic, hexen, master of magic, master of orion, theme hospital etc) that, unfortunately, do not. Most of them supporting IPX, Modem, Serial, and other such connections.

Since I haven't dappled with modems for AGES, I need some help.

Ironically, none of my computers have modem ports, but I do have two modem cards. And some weird token-ring-pulse (or whatever you call them) IBM ISA thing in my 300PL, it also has an ethernet port... have no clue what it does. It has two little lights that blink back and forth; to which I want to say: bee boo bee boo... =p

ANYWAYS, one of my modems is a lucent thing, and the other... "industry canada," whatever brand that is. I don't have the drivers for all three of these cards... so... I don't know what to do in that regard.

Do I use a modem for them to begin with? I'm really unsure how to setup a multiplayer game with modems. I never successfully did it before either "back in the day".
I suppose I could do IPX, but I haven't a clue what to do with that either. I'm assuming it uses ethernet which would be faster and easier to set up: but like I said, I'm clueless.

Some help would be highly appreciated. Yes I'm crazy; but it would be cool to start playing some classic games with my friends again (but sadly they don't know how to set these things up either). It's like everyone forgot...
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Konrad

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 02:27:46 »
I recommend a separate boot session that launches the required OS.
I personally maintain bootable partitions for several obsolete OS versions - MSDOS 6.22 (FAT16/2GB max), Win98SE (FAT32), WinXP Pro (NTFS5) - a bit of a minor pain to configure it right, but now running obsolete software/games is simple.
 
Anyhow -
 
A removable (floppy or CDROM or even USB) drive can boot MSDOS. A fixed drive (or partition) can boot MSDOS or Windows.
 
You can also try DOSBox, it works sometimes. Some of your ancient games might have been recompiled and re-released (or just patched) to run on Windows (XCOM Gold, for example, meant to run on Windows while original DOS XCOM would never work right).
 
IPX, SPX, Netbeui are largely obsolete (and not very secure) - they come with Win9x/NT/XP and there are ways to force them to install in modern Windows versions.
 
If the modem is recognized by Windows then you can use HyperTerminal to dial out.  The game should take over from there once connected.
 
Unfortunately I don't know which versions of Windows you have. Or what your particular hardware is (particularly your audio, CDROM, network, modem, mouse/input devices - which all need to be initialized at DOS startup). Or all the quirks of all the games you want to play. There are too many variables that can only be worked out by someone sitting in front of your computer. You might have to read and research or just get a nerd to figure it out for you. You don't want to have a computer shop do this (unless the nerd is one of your buddies). You definitely don't want those ****s at Geek Squad to attempt this.
 
lol, btw - MoO1 has multiplayer?
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 October 2010, 02:30:36 by Konrad »

Offline EverythingIBM

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 03:40:15 »
Quote from: Konrad;232064
I recommend a separate boot session that launches the required OS.
I personally maintain bootable partitions for several obsolete OS versions - MSDOS 6.22 (FAT16/2GB max), Win98SE (FAT32), WinXP Pro (NTFS5) - a bit of a minor pain to configure it right, but now running obsolete software/games is simple.
 
Anyhow -
 
A removable (floppy or CDROM or even USB) drive can boot MSDOS. A fixed drive (or partition) can boot MSDOS or Windows.
 
You can also try DOSBox, it works sometimes. Some of your ancient games might have been recompiled and re-released (or just patched) to run on Windows (XCOM Gold, for example, meant to run on Windows while original DOS XCOM would never work right).
 
IPX, SPX, Netbeui are largely obsolete (and not very secure) - they come with Win9x/NT/XP and there are ways to force them to install in modern Windows versions.
 
If the modem is recognized by Windows then you can use HyperTerminal to dial out.  The game should take over from there once connected.
 
Unfortunately I don't know which versions of Windows you have. Or what your particular hardware is (particularly your audio, CDROM, network, modem, mouse/input devices - which all need to be initialized at DOS startup). Or all the quirks of all the games you want to play. There are too many variables that can only be worked out by someone sitting in front of your computer. You might have to read and research or just get a nerd to figure it out for you. You don't want to have a computer shop do this (unless the nerd is one of your buddies). You definitely don't want those ****s at Geek Squad to attempt this.
 
lol, btw - MoO1 has multiplayer?


Well, I'm using my infamous 300PL -- which means windows 98SE (I don't see why you'd need to know all of my hardware though: I can run all of the games, I just need help with the networking via modem or IPX). I have a whole bunch of 98 computers I'm planning to use for multiplayer.
I generally don't like using DOS by itself, or restart in MS DOS mode: as a child I've always had bad luck with them. Some things never change... Goblins 2 was running rather sluggish, try it in restart in MS DOS mode, great it runs fast, but then hangs at the main screen. ctrl alt delete is your friend (to those who know, it forcefully restarts the computer: in windows you have to hit it twice: doesn't work in modern windows which pisses me off, cause then you have to crash potentially making bad sectors on HDDs).

I also have my thinkcentre which is XP: but I don't use it for DOS games.

No DOSBox is a very horrid thing. It's slow as trash. I can't do everything I want. Well, I better not rant about it here.

I've debated with people at Geek Squad (the guy there didn't know what a "gateway" was, which is a modem & router in one...). They will not help at all, because, I just want to know a few steps on getting modems or IPX running for my games. That's all.

Master of Orion does have multiplayer: I'm surprised you never commented about me saying Master of Magic having multiplayer, you had to download a special patch for it, whereas the Orion one did support it natively (I'm sure). IF not, then HotU has lied.
Oh, speaking of which, Master of Magic was stolen to create "Age of Wonders" (the title of which seems to be stolen from Age of Empires), and Chris Sawyer stole the ideas from "Theme Park" for his rollercoaster tycoon series. He did a pretty good job at it though. That's one ripoff I can say something positive about.

Age of Wonders I find is a little "bloaty," especially shadow magic. When you cake too much into a game, it can become unenjoyable.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Konrad

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 04:17:02 »
My point about knowing all your hardware could have been better worded. What I meant to say is that if you're booting a DOS session then you'll have to obtain all the correct DOS drivers for your particular hardware and know how to initialize the drivers in your startup (config.sys, autoexec.bat) files. To be honest, if you don't know your HIMEM and EMM386 details, for example, then you'd be better off letting someone else do it, not worth the time to learn that stuff these days.
 
The easiest way to make software work is to use it's native OS, especially when there's a lot of distance between the two OS versions (DOS and Windows, in this case). Windows has plenty of its own problems, why tinker and tweak to get a few old DOS apps working when it'd be faster to just reboot? (Especially when it sometimes requires "DOSsifying" your Windows, ie: breaking Windows so it's really just a big bad pseudo-DOS shell.)
 
In Win98SE you should be able to just right-click / properties on "Network Neighbourhood", then Add the IPX/SPX driver (from the CAB files) and restart. If you're just connecting on a LAN (no internet) and you trust your buddies then turn your firewall/antivirus/etc off to reduce problems. The games should work fine with this IPX (assuming they actually run under 98SE).
 
Your modem is just another piece of hardware. Plug it in, let Windows detect and configure it. Hopefully it's all automatic, this is easiest. If it's not automatic (ie, it's too old to PnP) then you'll have to read the docs and configure it manually (manual IRQ/COM settings, maybe BIOS changes, maybe modem card dips/jumpers ... and pray that your non-PnP modem doesn't cause resource conflicts with other hardware.)
 
Your game might dial the modem for you. Or it might require the modem is already connected to the other player. You can manually dial the modem by running the Windows HyperTerminal applet (you might need to go through your Windows components and install hyperterm from the CABs) - modem "AT" command codes are fairly universal and will definitely be specified in your docs. You might even be able to get the Windows Add Connection Wizard to do all this for you, so you have a shortcut which automates a call to your buddy.
 
-
 
DOSBox does indeed blow chunks. GeekSquad is indeed inbred and incompetent. Had to mention them because (apparently) some people are quite happy with those solutions.
 
I'll look into this MoO patch, multiplayer would rock!
Yeah, MoO2 had multiplayer and even though it had "more" in every measurable way it just somehow wasn't quite as good a game.
I never played MoM and don't know anything about it, lol just not my kind of game.
I've never seen AoW, but if it's a DOS-based AoE ripoff then maybe just play Windows-based AoE instead?
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 October 2010, 04:34:32 by Konrad »

Offline EverythingIBM

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 14:03:10 »
Quote from: Konrad;232073
My point about knowing all your hardware could have been better worded. What I meant to say is that if you're booting a DOS session then you'll have to obtain all the correct DOS drivers for your particular hardware and know how to initialize the drivers in your startup (config.sys, autoexec.bat) files. To be honest, if you don't know your HIMEM and EMM386 details, for example, then you'd be better off letting someone else do it, not worth the time to learn that stuff these days.
 
The easiest way to make software work is to use it's native OS, especially when there's a lot of distance between the two OS versions (DOS and Windows, in this case). Windows has plenty of its own problems, why tinker and tweak to get a few old DOS apps working when it'd be faster to just reboot? (Especially when it sometimes requires "DOSsifying" your Windows, ie: breaking Windows so it's really just a big bad pseudo-DOS shell.)
 
In Win98SE you should be able to just right-click / properties on "Network Neighbourhood", then Add the IPX/SPX driver (from the CAB files) and restart. If you're just connecting on a LAN (no internet) and you trust your buddies then turn your firewall/antivirus/etc off to reduce problems. The games should work fine with this IPX (assuming they actually run under 98SE).
 
Your modem is just another piece of hardware. Plug it in, let Windows detect and configure it. Hopefully it's all automatic, this is easiest. If it's not automatic (ie, it's too old to PnP) then you'll have to read the docs and configure it manually (manual IRQ/COM settings, maybe BIOS changes, maybe modem card dips/jumpers ... and pray that your non-PnP modem doesn't cause resource conflicts with other hardware.)
 
Your game might dial the modem for you. Or it might require the modem is already connected to the other player. You can manually dial the modem by running the Windows HyperTerminal applet (you might need to go through your Windows components and install hyperterm from the CABs) - modem "AT" command codes are fairly universal and will definitely be specified in your docs. You might even be able to get the Windows Add Connection Wizard to do all this for you, so you have a shortcut which automates a call to your buddy.
 
-
 
DOSBox does indeed blow chunks. GeekSquad is indeed inbred and incompetent. Had to mention them because (apparently) some people are quite happy with those solutions.
 
I'll look into this MoO patch, multiplayer would rock!
Yeah, MoO2 had multiplayer and even though it had "more" in every measurable way it just somehow wasn't quite as good a game.
I never played MoM and don't know anything about it, lol just not my kind of game.
I've never seen AoW, but if it's a DOS-based AoE ripoff then maybe just play Windows-based AoE instead?


Age of Wonders is a rip off from master of magic. It has nothing in common with age of empires: I just suggested they stole the title from age of empires.
I stated Master of Orion already has multiplayer support: but that master of magic needs a patch: which I then said I'm surprised you're not mentioning that one instead.

I'll try the IPX thing, but I don't really trust that I'll be able to get it working.

The modems I have zero documentation with (no drivers either); so I may have to buy some new ones which actually have driver CDs and all that. The IBM one I don't think is plug and play (heck it's ISA). I find it odd that the sub-model doesn't have it included... IBM just randomly said some models may have it included. I'll fish around and see if they have any drivers.
Although ISA doesn't sound that fast to me. And again, I'm not sure what a token card means... if it can even be used as a modem. Doubt it.

I'm not really sure how to "dial" two modems together.
Keyboards: '86 M, M5-2, M13, SSK, F AT, F XT

Offline Konrad

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DOS gaming with modems! Help?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 10 October 2010, 14:28:51 »
Assuming that both machines have working modems, of course.
 
You run a program like HyperTerminal (comes with Win98SE) on each computer, and at the prompt you type modem AT commands. AT commands follow a sort of de-facto standard common to all modems, though most modems have a few proprietary quirks that make little changes/additions to the command set. Your multiplayer game might have a mini modem terminal or "dial string" setup which can be used to issue or adjust the AT commands (instead of using HyperTerminal) the default AT strings usually work well enough, except of course you need to enter the phone number. DOS programs like Telemate or Telix (now abandonware) are the precursors of HyperTerminal (yeah, that's how we'd connect to a modem BBS), basically just a fancy shell for issuing AT commands.
 
The dialing computer
Code: [Select]
ATDT 555-555-5555The answering computer
Code: [Select]
ATAYou could use more elaborate commands to control and optimize how the modems behave, but these should work. You might want to adjust your modem volume, disable call waiting, or force a specific connection speed, for example. While the two computers are connected you can transfer files and such by issuing the appropriate terminal commands.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 October 2010, 14:35:49 by Konrad »