Author Topic: Take That Open Office  (Read 24430 times)

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Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Take That Open Office
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 17 October 2010, 11:18:20 »
Quote from: porgo;235098
OpenOffice is pretty bad, but the god damned bastards haven't ported MS Office to Linux yet. So I use LaTeX
I'll say one thing.  OO is better on Linux than MS Office does.  Why?  Because Micro$oft has never and seemingly will never natively support Linux.  I should and will try Latex but for being able to open and product basic MS Office docs, OO does the job.  Outside of Windows, Mac and mobile platforms, Micro$oft hasn't shown any intere$t in porting M$ Office to other platforms for around 15 years back when they shipped MS Office for DEC Alpha around the same time Windows NT ran on MIPS.  But that was all stopped and Microsoft seemingly never looked back.  Linux users wanting to run MS Office can run the Windows version using CrossOver or Wine, or use Office Web Apps.

Microsoft goes for the high volume, high profit markets with now well documented anticompetitive tactics.  Good if you own Microsoft stock, not as good if you want the reap the benefits of competition in the market.  In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Wordperfect was the de facto standard word processor.  Wordperfect supported virtually every platform out there and had a number of advantages such as: Rich macro set but not embedded in documents resulting in reduced vulnerability, and powerful scripting language, the ability to use key combinations rather than multiple GUI layers to format documents, and the file formats have changed little as opposed to Micro$oft frequent updates to incompatible new formats.  But Wordperfect for Windows was not as GUI friendly as Word and was late to market giving MS Office over a year to entrench and release multiple versions.  Microsoft, of course, launched an overwhelming glitzy marketing campaign.   As a result, Wordperfect lost a great deal of the mass consumer market.  Corel apparently still enjoys success with law firms and academics where its strengths are appreciated.

This follows the typical Microsoft strategy - Identify an existing successful market, such as Lotus 123, Netscape, Wordperfect.  Bring out a version 1.0 competing product, a basically non-competitive pale imitation of the market leader.  But Microsoft can afford to wait for success.  By version 2, the process of adding the most important mass market features and fixing problems is well underway but the market leader is still dominant.  By version 3, the product is competitive in the mass market and the marketing machine kicks in.  And at least in the past, Microsoft would fully leverage Windows, both in terms of development and bundling strategies, while making the same difficult for competing products.  Sales goes up and eventually the former market leader is crushed and Microsoft now dominates the market.  Over time Microsoft does improve the product, through innovation, acquisitions and reverse engineering of features from the crushed competitors.

Geez, did I just write all that?  Guess I couldn't control myself, hah, :wink:

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Take That Open Office
« Reply #101 on: Sun, 17 October 2010, 11:24:12 »
Quote from: porgo;235098
OpenOffice is pretty bad, but the god damned bastards haven't ported MS Office to Linux yet. So I use LaTeX

I'll say one thing.  OO is better on Linux than MS Office does.  Why?  Because Micro$oft has never and seemingly will never natively support Linux.  I should and will try Latex but for being able to open and produce basic MS Office docs, OO does the job.  Outside of Windows, Mac and mobile platforms, Micro$oft hasn't shown any intere$t in porting M$ Office to other platforms for around 15 years back when they shipped MS Office for DEC Alpha around the same time Windows NT ran on MIPS.  But that was all stopped and Microsoft seemingly never looked back.  Linux users wanting to run MS Office can run the Windows version using CrossOver or Wine, or use Office Web Apps.

Microsoft goes for the high volume, high profit markets with now well documented anticompetitive tactics.  Good if you own Microsoft stock, not as good if you want the reap the benefits of competition in the market.  In the late 1980s and early 1990s, Wordperfect was the de facto standard word processor.  Wordperfect supported virtually every platform out there and had a number of advantages such as: Rich macro set but not embedded in documents resulting in reduced vulnerability, and powerful scripting language, the ability to use key combinations rather than multiple GUI layers to format documents, and the file formats have changed little as opposed to Micro$oft frequent updates to incompatible new formats.  But Wordperfect for Windows was not as GUI friendly as Word and was late to market giving MS Office over a year to entrench and release multiple versions.  Microsoft, of course, launched an overwhelming glitzy marketing campaign.   As a result, Wordperfect lost a great deal of the mass consumer market.  Corel apparently still enjoys success with law firms and academics where its strengths are appreciated.

This follows the typical Microsoft strategy - Identify an existing successful market, such as Lotus 123, Netscape, Wordperfect.  Bring out a version 1.0 competing product, a basically non-competitive pale imitation of the market leader.  But Microsoft can afford to wait for success.  By version 2, the process of adding the most important mass market features and fixing problems is well underway but the market leader is still dominant.  By version 3, the product is competitive in the mass market and the marketing machine kicks in.  And at least in the past, Microsoft would fully leverage Windows, both in terms of development and bundling strategies, while making the same difficult for competing products.  Sales goes up and eventually the former market leader is crushed and Microsoft now dominates the market.  Over time Microsoft does improve the product, through innovation, acquisitions and reverse engineering of features from the crushed competitors.

Geez, did I just write all that?  Guess I couldn't control myself, hah, :wink:

Offline ch_123

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 5860
Take That Open Office
« Reply #102 on: Sun, 17 October 2010, 13:09:48 »
They'll port to other people's platforms if they need to undermine a competitor's strength on that platform, (Unix Internet Explorer for Slowlaris/Hockey-Pucks to compete with Netscape) or assert some control on a popular competing platform (IE and Office for Mac OS/OS X). Neither Open Office nor desktop Linux are popular enough to necessitate Microsoft getting involved, so it's better for them to just compete directly with Windows + MS Office.

In terms of MS trying to assert some control on Linux - there is actually some code in the Linux kernel that is written by MS, specifically in relation to getting Linux working smoothly on whatever their silly virtualization platform is...

Offline vicz

  • Posts: 32
Take That Open Office
« Reply #103 on: Sun, 17 October 2010, 23:31:36 »
Quote from: keyboardlover;234661
Which version of Word are you talking about? What you're saying doesn't apply to Word 2007. I wrote my masters thesis in Word 2007 and it was quite easy to make styles consistent across the entire 100+ page document. Took very little effort and it was quite intuitive. More so than LyX I would say.


Good for you. Please, go ahead and keep using Word. LaTeX does have a steep learning curve, and unless you need or care about the improvement in output quality, it's probably not worth learning. Just like buying a Topre keyboard is not worth the expense for most computer users, come to think of it.

Quote from: keyboardlover;234661

Quote where I mentioned LaTeX then. If I had, you wouldn't have had to insert it into your quote of me.


Zefrer wrote: You write in latex and can export to anything, pdf, html, doc whatever.

You answered: Hmm interesting...but can you style the documents in much the same way you can do with Word? Can you make them look nice? Or do they just look like basic text files?

I don't see what you could possibly have meant by "the documents", if it was not "LaTeX documents".

Quote from: keyboardlover;234661
Fail.


How cute.

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
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Take That Open Office
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 08:25:19 »
I no longer like LyX; I installed it at home and it's completely messed up; when I type the letters all display jumbled on top of each other. Weird since both platforms are exactly the same. :(

I still think Open Office and Lotus Symphony are fine and MS Office is the best. LyX is meh.
« Last Edit: Mon, 18 October 2010, 08:33:37 by keyboardlover »

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
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« Reply #105 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 09:39:41 »
Maybe you should get it working first before you decide you don't like it :)

Offline keyboardlover

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Take That Open Office
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 18 October 2010, 09:43:32 »
Quote from: zefrer
Maybe you should get it working first before you decide you don't like it :)


All I did was install it, the same way I did on the other machine (same platform). Also, the learning curve doesn't seem to be worth it. It's a neat and interesting tool, but it's just not for me.

Offline godly_music

  • Posts: 255
Take That Open Office
« Reply #107 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 18:36:58 »
OO Writer still crashes and chokes sometimes, and doesn't display formats as they were intended to be viewed. For example: Most of my digital books in .rtf or .doc format. It makes these look ugly or just puts out letter salad. OO Calc so far has been fine, maybe because I never tried opening anything foreign with it. Just making stuff with it.

I really wanna like OO. It's sleek and looks good. Still, MS Office just works better.

Offline keyboardlover

  • Posts: 4022
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Take That Open Office
« Reply #108 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 18:39:27 »
Quote from: godly_music;236551
OO Writer still crashes and chokes sometimes, and doesn't display formats as they were intended to be viewed. For example: Most of my digital books in .rtf or .doc format. It makes these look ugly or just puts out letter salad. OO Calc so far has been fine, maybe because I never tried opening anything foreign with it. Just making stuff with it.

I really wanna like OO. It's sleek and looks good. Still, MS Office just works better.


I agree with your assessment. OO's free though, so I guess you get what you pay for.

Offline phate408

  • Posts: 31
Take That Open Office
« Reply #109 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 19:09:44 »
Maybe I've been lucky, but since the 3.x series of OOo, I haven't had any issues. And I use it on a fairly regular basis. No crashing, no formatting issues. It works very well with Office 2007 (haven't tested against 2010). While I do tend to use MS Office on my desktop, since it's what I am more familiar with, I'll use OOo if it's easier to get to. And I only use OOo on my laptop/work machines (UNIX Admin, I run all *nix boxes :P).
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Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Take That Open Office
« Reply #110 on: Wed, 20 October 2010, 19:41:05 »
Quote from: phate408;236567
Maybe I've been lucky, but since the 3.x series of OOo, I haven't had any issues. And I use it on a fairly regular basis. No crashing, no formatting issues. It works very well with Office 2007 (haven't tested against 2010). While I do tend to use MS Office on my desktop, since it's what I am more familiar with, I'll use OOo if it's easier to get to. And I only use OOo on my laptop/work machines (UNIX Admin, I run all *nix boxes :P).


That is consistent with my experience.  I did have problems before 3.x but seems fairly solid since.  Basic in many ways though and many folks who take advantage of some of the fancier features of word just can't roll the OO way.

Offline zefrer

  • Posts: 299
Take That Open Office
« Reply #111 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 08:51:34 »
Quote from: TexasFlood;236574
 Basic in many ways though and many folks who take advantage of some of the fancier features of word just can't roll the OO way.


Such as? Personally I don't know anyone that relies or regularly uses any of the bloat, err sorry I mean advanced features, of Word.

Agreed on OO 3.x tho, also on 2.x formatting issues in regards to .doc or other MS formats.

Offline TexasFlood

  • Posts: 1084
Take That Open Office
« Reply #112 on: Thu, 21 October 2010, 09:21:22 »
Quote from: zefrer;236753
Such as? Personally I don't know anyone that relies or regularly uses any of the bloat, err sorry I mean advanced features, of Word.

Read earlier in the thread, such as Soarer's comments on outline view mode.