Author Topic: Take That Open Office (Read 24439 times)

itlnstln · « **on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 15:45:36 »

While I don't have any software fanboi allegiances, I must say, OO is a pile of crap. MS thinks so, too. The comments on the bottom are kinda funny, too.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #1 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 15:59:31 »

Quote from: itlnstln;233405

While I don't have any software fanboi allegiances, I must say, OO is a pile of crap. MS thinks so, too. The comments on the bottom are kinda funny, too.

Micro$oft is against a free alternative to what is probably their biggest cash cow? Say it ain't so! Next you'll be telling me Microsoft has a problem with Google Apps. :wink: Office is nicer than OO in the same way that having a nice car is better than bumming a ride or taking the bus. Either will probably get you there but one is a cooler ride with a more direct route.

itlnstln · « **Reply #2 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:01:06 »

There is MS Office Online, and I think that's free. I could be wrong, though. At least Office Online is more like a Toyota Camry.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #3 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:02:37 »

Quote from: itlnstln;233414

There is MS Office Online, and I think that's free. I could be wrong, though. At least Office Online is more like a Toyota Camry.

That's probably a good competitor to google apps and perhaps good for some shared data. But in general I'm FAR to paranoid to use either with my data, :shocked:

itlnstln · « **Reply #4 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:05:26 »

I sure as hell wouldn't use either one for work. Fortunately, we (and many other companies) get a free copy of Office (2010) to use at home. I also qualify for a student discount even though I graduated from college almost 10 years ago.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #5 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:11:39 »

OO has gotten better since I first tried it. It will most likely never be as slick or capable as Microsoft Office but it does most basic to intermediate things well. I recently tested it as a contingency plan if we didn't get Office licensing for a server for which the ability to edit Office files had been requested and was able to open examples of various types of real Microsoft Office files produced with recent versions. I found compatibility to be better than with older versions of Office so was pretty impressed. Compare this to when I first tried OO probably 7 or so years ago when I was stuck on a work laptop not yet having a genuine Office license and looking for a temporary legal alternative. Compatibility was a struggle then at best and a disaster at worst. But it's better now...

bitmap · « **Reply #6 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:35:42 »

I've yet to encounter a single problem with OOo, but I only use it for word processing and presentations for school, and I've even turned a few family members and friends onto it. Maybe I'll need something better when I get a real job, but it seems fine for basic use.

Arc'xer · « **Reply #7 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:38:17 »

Not sure why they would. Guess they are taking advantage of the split up between OO and LibreOffice, the whole oracle buy up.

Rajagra · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 16:50:28 »

I note that MS Office is finally being sold for home use at an affordable price. Would that have happened without Open Office breaking MS's stranglehold on the market? I doubt it. Thankyou, OO.

instantkamera · « **Reply #9 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:00:43 »

I honestly have no issues with OOo. I suppose some people's demands for a word processor or spreadsheet application are greater then my own, but Im will to bet that is NOT the case with 99% of MS Office users.

Soarer · « **Reply #10 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:08:43 »

Well I'm still using MS Office 2000... OO isn't even close to that for functionality or usability, and they've had 10 years to catch up!

It's a crying shame though, I'd much prefer there to be some competition, MS Office has just gone sideways since 2k (frills, docx bollocks, etc).

I'll admit I don't ask for much from it, so heavier users might be better placed to provide more balanced critique. I can well understand why Joe Average wouldn't want to bother trying anything other than what everyone else is using though.

I'm not sure I agree with you, Rajagra, on that point. MS probably wasn't getting many sales there regardless (aside from bundled packages, which net them far less than retail anyway).

instantkamera · « **Reply #11 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:11:08 »

Doesn't MS still sell WORKS? Something about that doesnt make sense...

timw4mail · « **Reply #12 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:20:05 »

Eh, Office and OpenOffice/Libre Office both suck. Both need a major slim-down.

ch_123 · « **Reply #13 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:21:48 »

Moar LaTeX.

What Tim said. The open source community needs to one-up MS, not emulate it.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #14 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:22:55 »

Quote from: Soarer;233455

Well I'm still using MS Office 2000... OO isn't even close to that for functionality or usability, and they've had 10 years to catch up!

It's a crying shame though, I'd much prefer there to be some competition, MS Office has just gone sideways since 2k (frills, docx bollocks, etc).

I'll admit I don't ask for much from it, so heavier users might be better placed to provide more balanced critique. I can well understand why Joe Average wouldn't want to bother trying anything other than what everyone else is using though.

I'm not sure I agree with you, Rajagra, on that point. MS probably wasn't getting many sales there regardless (aside from bundled packages, which net them far less than retail anyway).

Anything specific that OO can't do?

TexasFlood · « **Reply #15 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:24:12 »

Quote from: ch_123;233464

Moar LaTeX.

What Tim said. The open source community needs to one-up MS, not emulate it.

Maybe, but if it's not compatible with MS Office as the de facto standard, then might as well not bother.

ch_123 · « **Reply #16 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:26:48 »

Well, they take quite different approaches to solving the same problem. Don't you just hate it when someone posts or emails a doc file when they really should use a PDF?

TexasFlood · « **Reply #17 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:29:21 »

Quote from: ch_123;233467

Well, they take quite different approaches to solving the same problem. Don't you just hate it when someone posts or emails a doc file when they really should use a PDF?

I am a big fan of PDF files. Lightwight, look good, anyone can open them, allows you to keep control of source material that while distributing what is needed. Plenty of tools from advanced software from Abode to lots of easily available open source. Good stuff.

EverythingIBM · « **Reply #18 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 17:54:45 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;233470

I am a big fan of PDF files. Lightwight, look good, anyone can open them, allows you to keep control of source material that while distributing what is needed. Plenty of tools from advanced software from Abode to lots of easily available open source. Good stuff.

I actually find PDF files to be highly bloated, CPU intensive, and very large (especially with scanned documents, easily scales gigabytes with a few files).
Foxit reader seems to work very nicely, but seriously, the new adobe reader versions are extraordinarily bloated. I probably notice it more since I install this new stuff on older computers still.

In terms of compatibility, office 97 is probably the best. It also supports word perfect formats and a whole variety of others. The only disadvantage is there is no support for docx... that I know of.
Although findfast.exe (which periodically scans my floppy drive now and then: causing a little bit of delay in DOS games, DAMN YOU) and the dumb toolbar (if not unchecked when installing: I didn't know to do this the first time 'round installing it of course) really annoy the heck out of me. And the office assistants... they're as assisting as OSX claims to be an operating system. Ouch.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #19 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:10:39 »

Honestly, I think there's no office software that's more straighforward to use than Office '97. '97 just works, no stupid features, none of that ".docx" crap.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #20 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:13:01 »

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233477

I actually find PDF files to be highly bloated, CPU intensive, and very large (especially with scanned documents, easily scales gigabytes with a few files).

Compared to what? What's the better alternative? Maybe a jpeg but you'd be giving up a lot.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233477

Foxit reader seems to work very nicely, but seriously, the new adobe reader versions are extraordinarily bloated. I probably notice it more since I install this new stuff on older computers still.

I won't argue about software bloatware. I don't like it. But bloated software is easier to produce than tight code. So if most computers out there can handle it without complaints, that is what we get, what the market will bear. At least with a widespread standard like PDF there are alternatives.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233477

In terms of compatibility, office 97 is probably the best. It also supports word perfect formats and a whole variety of others. The only disadvantage is there is no support for docx... that I know of.

Can't agree in my case since I have to load the new formats like docx, xlsx, pptx while I probably haven't seen a word perfect file for at least a decade.

EverythingIBM · « **Reply #21 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:24:22 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;233483

Compared to what? What's the better alternative? Maybe a jpeg but you'd be giving up a lot.

I won't argue about software bloatware. I don't like it. But bloated software is easier to produce than tight code. So if most computers out there can handle it without complaints, that is what we get, what the market will bear. At least with a widespread standard like PDF there are alternatives.

Can't agree in my case since I have to load the new formats like docx, xlsx, pptx while I probably haven't seen a word perfect file for at least a decade.

I'm sure if the PDF format was worked on more extensively, it could be very light weight (one thing that should be eliminated is "layers," they're pointless, and even if you can select text on a scanned image, often or not, the text selected is rendered improperly anyhow). I recommend foxit if you're using adobe reader.

Believe it or not but I've had a few gripes with word perfect. Lots of people like it though... well they're probably more used to it, it's difficult for a youngin' like me to adapt to it. Uses extensive hotkeys.
For writing I like office 07 with the ribbon (may seem odd)... otherwise I write it with my *favourite computer* in office 97.
Office 2010... I don't like how they removed the little orb in the ribbon. They have to change everything don't they? Then it's not about updates anymore, but remixing and recreating... which is the opposite of updating. I was hoping they'd leave the ribbon alone.

lol... you know what? I should just run every single version of microsoft office released, problem solved.

ch_123 · « **Reply #22 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:27:49 »

Sumatra is a good PDF reader for Windows.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #23 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:34:12 »

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233497

I'm sure if the PDF format was worked on more extensively, it could be very light weight (one thing that should be eliminated is "layers," they're pointless, and even if you can select text on a scanned image, often or not, the text selected is rendered improperly anyhow). I recommend foxit if you're using adobe reader.

Just use PDF creation software that doesn't create layers or allows it to be turned off. Layers are pretty damn handy if you're creating a PDF from a Visio diagram that uses layers.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233497

For writing I like office 07 with the ribbon (may seem odd)... otherwise I write it with my *favourite computer* in office 97.
Office 2010... I don't like how they removed the little orb in the ribbon. They have to change everything don't they? Then it's not about updates anymore, but remixing and recreating... which is the opposite of updating. I was hoping they'd leave the ribbon alone.

I don't like the ribbon at all and have avoided it pretty much so far. I'll probably have to adapt eventually but I can resist, :wink:.

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233497

lol... you know what? I should just run every single version of microsoft office released, problem solved.

Sure, Bill Gates needs more money to give away.

Soarer · « **Reply #24 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:38:42 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;233465

Anything specific that OO can't do?

Ok. I've just downloaded the latest version, and I must admit it has improved since I last tried it.

But for starters... is there an outline view mode in 'Writer'?

keyboardlover · « **Reply #25 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:41:42 »

FWIW, IBM Lotus Symphony is another good free alternative to MS Office.

I don't currently use it, but I tested the beta version a couple years back and recall being pretty happy with it. Might download it again for the hell of it.

ch_123 · « **Reply #26 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:44:55 »

Quote

Anything specific that OO can't do?

Work?

No seriously, it seems to **** itself when it has to deal with MS Office stuff.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #27 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:51:25 »

Quote from: Soarer;233511

Ok. I've just downloaded the latest version, and I must admit it has improved since I last tried it.

But for starters... is there an outline view mode in 'Writer'?

I don't think so, strictly speaking. But check out the Navigator.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #28 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:53:56 »

Quote from: ch_123;233519

Work?

No seriously, it seems to **** itself when it has to deal with MS Office stuff.

I don't use OO a lot but it's worked with MS Office files when I did use it. Really don't know how to respond to "****ting itself" as a specific criticism so won't, :biggrin:, hah. But I think you're right that for work, you should use the real deal and not **** around with open source alternatives since you're quite likely to eventually waste enough time ****ing around with differences to justify the added cost.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #29 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:55:32 »

Quote from: keyboardlover;233514

FWIW, IBM Lotus Symphony is another good free alternative to MS Office.

I don't currently use it, but I tested the beta version a couple years back and recall being pretty happy with it. Might download it again for the hell of it.

Although it tends to lag behind OO in some respects, I have high hopes for future releases, particularly with regard to the integration features.

Soarer · « **Reply #30 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 18:59:01 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;233523

I don't think so, strictly speaking. But check out the Navigator.

Yeah I found that, but it's not even close to being as useful as outlining in the main view. Quite honestly, I couldn't compose any substantial document without a decent outline mode, so it doesn't matter (to me!) what else it can or can't do

TexasFlood · « **Reply #31 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:04:24 »

Quote from: Soarer;233528

Yeah I found that, but it's not even close to being as useful as outlining in the main view. Quite honestly, I couldn't compose any substantial document without a decent outline mode, so it doesn't matter (to me!) what else it can or can't do

Well, there you go, sounds like you found something you can't live with. Guessing I'm too primitive in that respect to appreciate the problem. I mean, I can make an outline with "tools->outline numbering" and manipulate it with navigator if I need to. That's more than I'll likely use anyway.

paardvark · « **Reply #32 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:05:49 »

I think MS Office takes the crown here in terms of functionality. For school however, google apps is king for me because I can access documents from all of my PC's.

patrickgeekhack · « **Reply #33 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:07:13 »

Quote from: EverythingIBM;233497

I recommend foxit if you're using adobe reader.

Good point.

As far as Open Office is concerned, I personally think that the devoping team should review the interface to begin with. I'm pretty sure more people would be tempted to use it if it looked nicer. If every suite out there looked almost the same fine, but not when the other suites look much much nicer. We can say what we want, but look does matter, and does matter a lot.

Second, how the dictionaries are handled leaves a lot to be desired if you asked me. I don't use the dictionaries a lot for spell checking. I much prefer to make sure I get the words right and will consult a proper dictionary if I need to. However, I do use the thesaurus a lot for synonyms. With MS Office, it's a matter of right clicking on a word to get the synonyms. Not so easy on Open Office.

And third, setting language is not as nicely done as in MS Office.

All in all, I would say that Open Office has some catching up to do when it comes to minor details, but minor details can mean the difference between winning a contract and not winning a contract, between winning a sport final and not winning the final. So if money is not a problem, I will get MS Office over Open Office. If money is a problem, however, I will have to stick to Open Office.

I am not against Open Office however. If anything, I wish it was much better. I like competition. I seriously gave it a try but sadly found out it was not for me...for now. Once I'm done with University, it will not be a problem anymore. Like Rajagara has said, competition is what is making Microsoft change some of its practice. They did admit that Firefox pushed them to review their browser.

keyboardlover · « **Reply #34 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:07:37 »

Quote from: ch_123

Work?

No seriously, it seems to **** itself when it has to deal with MS Office stuff.

I've never had a problem using it with MS Office stuff...I have the latest version.

mcdonc · « **Reply #35 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:39:36 »

Expecting somebody to attach a .doc at any moment...

TexasFlood · « **Reply #36 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:54:26 »

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;233535

As far as Open Office is concerned, I personally think that the devoping team should review the interface to begin with. I'm pretty sure more people would be tempted to use it if it looked nicer. If every suite out there looked almost the same fine, but not when the other suites look much much nicer. We can say what we want, but look does matter, and does matter a lot.

Have you checked out Lotus Symphony? It's based on the same code but I think that improving the interface is one of the things being worked on.

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;233535

Second, how the dictionaries are handled leaves a lot to be desired if you asked me. I don't use the dictionaries a lot for spell checking. I much prefer to make sure I get the words right and will consult a proper dictionary if I need to. However, I do use the thesaurus a lot for synonyms. With MS Office, it's a matter of right clicking on a word to get the synonyms. Not so easy on Open Office.

You're right, this isn't there, not sure if it will be. You could use a separate program like wordweb.

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;233535

And third, setting language is not as nicely done as in MS Office.

Don't really know about this.

Quote from: patrickgeekhack;233535

All in all, I would say that Open Office has some catching up to do when it comes to minor details, but minor details can mean the difference between winning a contract and not winning a contract, between winning a sport final and not winning the final. So if money is not a problem, I will get MS Office over Open Office. If money is a problem, however, I will have to stick to Open Office.

I am not against Open Office however. If anything, I wish it was much better. I like competition. I seriously gave it a try but sadly found out it was not for me...for now. Once I'm done with University, it will not be a problem anymore. Like Rajagara has said, competition is what is making Microsoft change some of its practice. They did admit that Firefox pushed them to review their browser.

Well said, can't argue. And good point that even those who aren't using OO are benefiting from the competition.

There are a lot of folks out there who just need the basics and for those folks, OO kicks the crap out of something like MS Works.

Soarer · « **Reply #37 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 19:56:52 »

Quote from: TexasFlood;233532

Well, there you go, sounds like you found something you can't live with. Guessing I'm too primitive in that respect to appreciate the problem. I mean, I can make an outline with "tools->outline numbering" and manipulate it with navigator if I need to. That's more than I'll likely use anyway.

You asked me what Office did that OO couldn't. I indulged you (and my own curiosity) and downloaded and installed OO. It didn't take me long to find something, that as it turns out, would really bother me. Fine if it doesn't bother you, I wouldn't call you primitive because of it, so why imply that what bothers me is somehow esoteric?

Outline numbering has got little to do with outlining as I was using the term BTW. I meant the ability to fold up sections of the document, and to drag them around in situ to change both position and level, in a view that displays the document hierarchically rather than linearly. Without that, the Navigator is just a kludge. But... it would be nice to have both!

TexasFlood · « **Reply #38 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 20:05:30 »

Quote from: Soarer;233555

You asked me what Office did that OO couldn't. I indulged you (and my own curiosity) and downloaded and installed OO. It didn't take me long to find something, that as it turns out, would really bother me. Fine if it doesn't bother you, I wouldn't call you primitive because of it, so why imply that what bothers me is somehow esoteric?

Outline numbering has got little to do with outlining as I was using the term BTW. I meant the ability to fold up sections of the document, and to drag them around in situ to change both position and level, in a view that displays the document hierarchically rather than linearly. Without that, the Navigator is just a kludge. But... it would be nice to have both!

I gave you credit. I asked you for a specific and you provided it. Didn't mean to dismiss it or imply anything about you, just that it's lost on me as I'm not that sophisticated. My wife has forgotten more about word processors than I'll probably ever know. That's just the way it is. She uses word now and I'm sure would never touch OpenOffice. Hell, there was a time when she used, what was it, Frame Maker I think and wouldn't touch MS Office. That changed so maybe this will as well. Clearly I've got a lot to learn about word processing. But if I don't really need it, might not happen, :wink:.

Soarer · « **Reply #39 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 21:11:06 »

Guess I got the wrong end of the stick then

I certainly don't think of myself as sophisticated when it comes to using word processors, in fact I hate writing documents. So if I find something that makes it easier, I'm sure as hell going to use it, and feel pain when it's not there. But it's not a case of literally needing it I suppose, at least not in the same way as needing to be able to insert diagrams into a technical document for example.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #40 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 21:17:17 »

Quote from: Soarer;233588

Guess I got the wrong end of the stick then

I certainly don't think of myself as sophisticated when it comes to using word processors, in fact I hate writing documents. So if I find something that makes it easier, I'm sure as hell going to use it, and feel pain when it's not there. But it's not a case of literally needing it I suppose, at least not in the same way as needing to be able to insert diagrams into a technical document for example.

It's all relative, :wink:. I might learn something from reading your posts. Many times there are cool program features right under my nose that I just never noticed. As far as inserting diagrams into documents, I'm pretty simplistic there as well. I prefer smaller size over the best quality, so rather than inserting a Visio into a word file, I'll save the Visio as a PNG and insert that. The result is smaller size and protecting my source files so I don't end up with bastardized copies of it floating around.

mcdonc · « **Reply #41 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 22:12:10 »

Emacs or go home.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #42 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 22:13:42 »

Quote from: mcdonc;233607

Emacs or go home.

I used to support a bunch of really sharp developers who swore by XEmacs. It was too much for me at the time. And still in fact, although maybe it's worth another look.

TexasFlood · « **Reply #43 on:** Wed, 13 October 2010, 23:15:42 »

Quote from: mcdonc;233607

Emacs or go home.

I used to support a bunch of really sharp developers who swore by XEmacs. It was too much for me at the time. And still in fact, although maybe it's worth another look.

Shawn Stanford · « **Reply #44 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 06:18:30 »

SPF Lite

timw4mail · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 08:47:17 »

Quote from: Shawn Stanford;233670

SPF Lite

Theres Lean, and then there's yuck.

zefrer · « **Reply #46 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 09:08:43 »

Microsoft chooses 14 quotes from a Microsoft sponsored 'study' on why MS Office is better than OO and attributes them to 14 Microsoft clients.

Move along now, nothing to see here.

The rest of the world has been using OO for years now and the only people saying it's **** are people that don't use it or Microsoft themselves.

Make up your own mind.

People in my workplace don't even notice the difference between one and the other..

Shawn Stanford · « **Reply #47 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 09:27:20 »

Quote from: timw4mail;233707

Theres Lean, and then there's yuck.

SPFLite is probably the best line editor on the Windows platform. It's quite feature-rich, and it's free...

itlnstln · « **Reply #48 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 10:39:17 »

Quote from: zefrer;233714

Microsoft chooses 14 quotes from a Microsoft sponsored 'study' on why MS Office is better than OO and attributes them to 14 Microsoft clients.

Move along now, nothing to see here.

The rest of the world has been using OO for years now and the only people saying it's **** are people that don't use it or Microsoft themselves.

Make up your own mind.

People in my workplace don't even notice the difference between one and the other..

Nice try, but you're in a forum of experts.

zefrer · « **Reply #49 on:** Thu, 14 October 2010, 11:01:41 »

Quote from: itlnstln;233746

Nice try, but you're in a forum of experts.

News:

Author Topic: Take That Open Office (Read 24439 times)