So I'm torn between getting a Cherry Brown and Cherry Black board...

[LawnJesus]

Hi.

I'm for the most part a casual gamer, and I love to type. I currently own an IBM Model M (as I have put in my sig), but I'm kinda losing the love for the clickyness that it's known for (plus I have power issues as I'm running this thing to a crappy converter, meaning ghosting issues). I really like the sound of the FILCO with the Cherry Browns, but I've heard it isn't the greatest for gaming because of how it doesn't require much force for actuation.

So, when people generally do refer to it being bad for gaming, what kind of games are they using as a basis? Anyone know or have an idea? I play mostly FPS games, and can't really picture the Cherry Browns being that bad, but actually better (quicker response for movement?).

Obviously the Cherry Blacks are more ideal for gaming because of the amount of force it actually takes to press the keys. But I don't really like the sound of the Cherry Blacks.

Is it a bad thing to base my decision of a new keyboard on the sound of the keys like that?

I've basically ruled out the idea of getting a FILCO with Cherry Blues because I don't really want the clicky sound in a keyboard, and I would really like to try tactile-only.

What are other people's opinions of the Cherry Browns? I'd like to know if any other gamers use a keyboard with them here.

[v193r]

i dont where you heard that browns are bad for gaming. browns are known to be the balance between gaming and gaming. i cant say anything bad about the cherry browns.

[WhiteRice]

Balance between gaming and gaming eh? Sounds perfect then!

lol I would agree if your coming from a model M and you want something quiet browns are the way to go.

Just go buy one now.

If you hate it you can resell it for <10% loss.

[Antihope]

Honestly, when you're making the decision to pay as much for a keyboard as most mechanicals cost, I think it's fair to take the little things like the sound into account.  I'm on a Filco tenkeyless with blues atm, and can tell you that you will get used to just about anything after having it on your desk for a bit.  The blacks always made my fingers sore after midterm papers, and the browns were sold out when I got this.  I thought the sound of the blues would drive me insance, but I've really grown to like the click.  

TLDR: Pro gamers could use a keyboard made from jello and still be good.  It's not the keyboard.  Spend your money on what makes you happy.

[WhiteRice]

tldr: Pro gamers could use a keyboard made from jello and still be good.  It's not the keyboard.  Spend your money on what makes you happy.

qft

[LawnJesus]

I'm not so worried about the keyboard being loud necessarily, I'm just not very fond of the clicking coming from it, and I just wanna try the tactile only approach. Plus I have a problem with ghosting with my Model M because of power issues.

I can also sell my IBM Model M for probably 40 bucks or so, maybe 50 because it's in very good shape.

I've basically gathered that Blues are good because they're between Blacks and Browns. Steelseries uses Blacks in their 7G keyboards, the Razer Black Widow has Cherry Blues, as does the XArmor U9BL.

I think I shall get a FILCO Cherry Brown hopefully next week, when I get my damn debit card in the mail.

Oh yeah, does the N-key rollover really matter? I mean, I don't have any PS/2 ports, but is it something that would leave me wishing I had PS/2 ports for it?

[WhiteRice]

6KRO+Mods are all you need.

[kriminal]

err once you know, blacks have no tactility what so ever, browns are more or less blacks with way less force on your finger with slight tactility.
browns are quite fun for typing where-as black are usually chucked into "acquired taste" category.
blues are totally different from blacks and browns not in between..
in order of tactility and sound:

blacks==>browns==>blues  (blues are the loudest most tactile)

blacks and browns are totally quiet if you are a touch typist. you only get a sound if you bottom out when typing.

[Fwiffo]

You have a pretty loose standard for "totally quiet". I wouldn't even call most rubber dome keyboards totally quiet, and browns are significantly louder than domes even if you're not bottoming out.

[kriminal]

hmm let me edit that was referring to blacks...

[tonyklo]

brown is great for typing ... but really aren't too great for FPS ( i play CS )... kind of affected my movement a lil bit ...

while BLACK seems to be better for me in games, but my hands get so tired after awhile lol

i think i much prefer a cheap membrane keyboard for gaming lol

[LawnJesus]

I'd have to say "Once you go clickety clack, you never go back" (or something like that >_>) because I just can't fathom going to the store to buy a membrane switch keyboard ever again.

After thinking Logitech was so pro in making keyboards, I come across mechanical ones and just think how all those keyboards in a Best Buy (unless if there's like...a Steelseries 7G or something on the shelves) don't compare to FILCOs or Model Ms or HHKBs and all that, lol.

[WhiteRice]

Yeah but the profit margin is huge.

[LawnJesus]

So, now that I'm set on a Cherry Brown keyboard, how solid are FILCO keyboards? I don't wanna cough up 100 bucks on a keyboard that isn't that great.

[calavera]

filcos are one of the better ones out there

[djones]

You can get a cheap MX brown board (mx 11800) for maybe $20 on ebay, and apparently adesso produces a blue board for $60.  Solution: get both! Once you start using good keyboards they're going to naturally start piling in your room anyways, so might as well start early.

[Fwiffo]

If you get a Filco and don't care for typing on it, it's always suitable for bludgeoning grizzly bears. Don't worry, they're solid.

[ManjyomeThunder]

You can get a cheap MX brown board (mx 11800) for maybe $20 on ebay, and apparently adesso produces a blue board for $60.  Solution: get both! Once you start using good keyboards they're going to naturally start piling in your room anyways, so might as well start early.

Every time I check eBay for mx11800s, crazy bastards are selling them for near $50. >:|

[elbowglue]

MX11800's are PCB mounted switches whereas filcos are plate mounted switches.  PCB's feel much nicer in my opinion.  Although the layout on the MX11800 is kindof wonky, but it does lend itself to a hacksaw mod to make it tenkeyless (see the compaq 84u in my sig)

Ebay auction currently at $5 + $7 shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Compaq-Trackball-Keyboard-MX11800-/200531609758?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2eb09d889e#ht_500wt_950

Free shipping, $49.99 or best offer: (hint try to lowball)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Compaq-MX-11800-PS-2-Keyboard-Trackball-Mouse-/190453461779?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2c57e93313#ht_3052wt_934

$52 OBO + $7 shipping:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Compaq-MX-11800-PS2-Keyboard-w-Trackball-/320584556040?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa4541e08#ht_916wt_700

Here is an ebay search term so you can find other ones that don't always pop up:
(11800, mx11800, 186591, 185152) (compaq)
or
(11800, mx11800, 186591, 185152, rackmount, trackball) (compaq)

[unicomp]

Are Cherry switch boards and example of a place in life where once one has gone black there is a rather large probability that one will go back?

[WhiteRice]

quite; rather the exception to the rule?

[unicomp]

Well I don't know if I am qualified to speak on that matter really.

[Lanx]

i swapping blacks/blues and browns in the modded nostromo n52, blacks are great for gaming, cuz mainly i guess you just press and "hold" down foward, but i tried kinda typing and it sucks.

[LawnJesus]

With a keyboard such as a MX11800, will it lose whatever KRO it has? I don't want a repeat with my IBM Model M on the 30 dollar converter I have that doesn't even do the trick. That's why I'm kinda leaning more towards just getting a FILCO. But I dunno.

[keyboardlover]

With a keyboard such as a MX11800, will it lose whatever KRO it has? I don't want a repeat with my IBM Model M on the 30 dollar converter I have that doesn't even do the trick. That's why I'm kinda leaning more towards just getting a FILCO. But I dunno.

The MX11800 has 2KRO. It's no good for FPS gaming; I know because I used to have one and gamed with it.

[keyboardlover]

Get a Filco brown cherry.  Be happy.

I say that or a Das. If a Das, get someone's student ID and get the student discount =)

[LawnJesus]

Well, I'm quite set on getting a FILCO Tactile Touch keyboard because it's in USB and it's got Cherry Browns. I just gotta wait till I get my debit card in the mail, and I should be set soon. Then I can sell my Model M for some money, too. Whooooooooo.

I wish I could get a military discount on my keyboard, though.

[keyboardlover]

Well, I'm quite set on getting a FILCO Tactile Touch keyboard because it's in USB and it's got Cherry Browns. I just gotta wait till I get my debit card in the mail, and I should be set soon. Then I can sell my Model M for some money, too. Whooooooooo.

Bear in mind that the Tactile Touch that doesn't say NKRO is only 2KRO and no good for gaming. If you're ordering from EK, looks like it'll be back in stock at the end of the month.

[LawnJesus]

Wait...what? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- Damnit.

At least if I get it (the full NKRO model) I have a stupid trick I wanna try. I wanna use the PS/2 plug included and plug it into my converter to see if changes the NKRO >_>

[keyboardlover]

Wait...what? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF- Damnit.

At least if I get it (the full NKRO model) I have a stupid trick I wanna try. I wanna use the PS/2 plug included and plug it into my converter to see if changes the NKRO >_>

It's only a couple weeks...you'll make it

It should be 6KRO (which is fine for gaming) with USB and full NKRO when you use the included PS/2 plug.

[Fwiffo]

Bear in mind that the Tactile Touch that doesn't say NKRO is only 2KRO and no good for gaming. If you're ordering from EK, looks like it'll be back in stock at the end of the month.

I would qualify this a bit. 2KRO is fine for RTS gaming, but may not be good enough for FPS or perhaps other types of games.

But if you're cool you go tenkeyless, and the tenkeyless Filcos are all NKRO.

[LawnJesus]

The Cherry Brown tenkeyless is out of stock, too. It's also 9 bucks cheaper than the one with the tenkeys. I may still get the NKRO Tactile Touch regular, then.

Wait a minute, am I seeing the Das Keyboard in Cherry Brown switches, or are they just using a stock photo of them stems? Fffff, maybe I'll get one of 'dem instead, hm? How do Das Keyboards compare to others out there, regarding things like keycaps and all that?

[phate408]

The Cherry Brown tenkeyless is out of stock, too. It's also 9 bucks cheaper than the one with the tenkeys. I may still get the NKRO Tactile Touch regular, then.

Wait a minute, am I seeing the Das Keyboard in Cherry Brown switches, or are they just using a stock photo of them stems? Fffff, maybe I'll get one of 'dem instead, hm? How do Das Keyboards compare to others out there, regarding things like keycaps and all that?

I would be curious to hear about this too. I've been eyeing either a blue or brown board, and Das and Filco are high in the runnings for me.

Edit: Nevermind, found some good comparisons of exactly that on here.

[djones]

MX11800's are PCB mounted switches whereas filcos are plate mounted switches.  PCB's feel much nicer in my opinion.  

Aren't the mx11800's the only readily available pcb mounted browns (actually the kinesis ergo is, but that doesn't count)?

Every time I check eBay for mx11800s, crazy bastards are selling them for near $50. >:|

LOL, that's because I'm hoarding half of them :-P (i own 7 mx11800's, bought at an average of <$20).

[keyboardlover]

Wait a minute, am I seeing the Das Keyboard in Cherry Brown switches, or are they just using a stock photo of them stems? Fffff, maybe I'll get one of 'dem instead, hm? How do Das Keyboards compare to others out there, regarding things like keycaps and all that?

Yes the Das silent I believe has cherry browns and is plate mounted like the Filco. Never had one tho, so can't give more info.

[8_INCH_FLOPPY]

In my experience, Cherry blacks are easier to find.  I have four of them, and my only source of keyboards is thrift stores and flea markets.  So, if you're anywhere near as cheap as I am, I'd recommend you go with black.

[elbowglue]

Aren't the mx11800's the only readily available pcb mounted browns (actually the kinesis ergo is, but that doesn't count)?

LOL, that's because I'm hoarding half of them :-P (i own 7 mx11800's, bought at an average of <$20).

Yeah.  There is a very rare Ricercar SPOS that pops up, sometimes a rare G80-1800 in browns that pops up as well... Datacal used to have g80-3000 with browns however they sold out.  The other source is the large POS boards the MX 8100 keyboards which you can find used for cheap on fleabay with cherry brown switches.  These have some PCB flex and the key feel varies across the keyboard because of it however.

Yes I'm hoarding like 3 MX 11800's also

[8_INCH_FLOPPY]

Did I say four?  Make that six.

[~Blood~]

RTS, RPG, Dota (everything where you click a key once and thats it) : Browns

FPS, Trackmania : Blacks

[phate408]

I've been playing TF2 on a Model M. Haven't noticed any problems at all. I haven't figured out why people prefer Blacks yet.

[Zensuji]

Cherry browns for light and near linear when gaming, when typing they are subtly tactile. Perfect IMO.

[unicomp]

EliteKeyboards is always sold out of Cherry Browns. So is Das (Metadot).

There is a reason for that.

Yes, the reason is that Cherry browns are so quiet that people can sneak into the warehouses at night and steal them, after testing them of course, whereas they cannot test the Cherry blue boards in the warehouse for fear of being caught. (They must test their boards so that they can correctly indicate their status as working/not working when they sell them).

[LawnJesus]

I should try to get to my local thrift shop soon to see if any old keyboards are there that happen to be mechanical switch types.

I just bought Fallout: New Vegas so I'm set back a bit on money for a keyboard. >_> Not too concerning though because I won't be receiving my debit card for online purchases for another two weeks roughly.

I've been playing TF2 on a Model M. Haven't noticed any problems at all. I haven't figured out why people prefer Blacks yet.

Are you using a PS/2 port in your computer or a converter to USB? If the latter, what kind?

Also TF2

[phate408]

I should try to get to my local thrift shop soon to see if any old keyboards are there that happen to be mechanical switch types.

I just bought Fallout: New Vegas so I'm set back a bit on money for a keyboard. >_> Not too concerning though because I won't be receiving my debit card for online purchases for another two weeks roughly.



Are you using a PS/2 port in your computer or a converter to USB? If the latter, what kind?

Also TF2

I've got a PS/2 port, so I use that. I had a friend who was using a converter to use a PS/2 keyboard with his laptop and he had some issues with FPS games.

And heck yes TF2, still my favorite game.

[LawnJesus]

Yeah, I paid 30 dollars for a converter that has terrible ghosting issues. That's a reason why I wanna move to an USB FILCO keyboard or something.

[Neutral_Eyes]

So far I've tried blues, blacks, and browns. I do a fair bit of gaming and some typing, and I prefer the browns. The Filco blues were great for typing, absolutely loved them - except for the noise, that was unfortunately the deal breaker for me. Next I tried blacks from Steelseries and was unimpressed with both the board and the switches themselves; while gaming I actually thought they were a step down from rubber domes. Most recently I bought a tenkeyless Filco with browns. Now I fully understand the infatuation with mechanical keyboards, it's exactly what I was looking for while typing or gaming. Don't let the numbers on paper trick you, the actuation force is just fine for gaming.

[DONDON]

TLDR: Pro gamers could use a keyboard made from jello and still be good.  It's not the keyboard.  Spend your money on what makes you happy.

In 2004-2005 I played CS 1.6 "professionally" with the following gear:

Black Super Mat (The color makes a difference if you find one at Fry's for $6.00)
Logitech MX300
Logitech Corded Deluxe Access Keyboard

This was back when expensive mouse pads etc. started coming out and they could be REALLY expensive (Ice Mats.) I never saw anyone get better playing on a fUnc or a SteelSeries over an Allsop. In fact back when I started LANing during 1.2 a lot of the old pubbers (the really good ones who started in the early betas before there was a real competitive scene, played on The-Space/TSO, and kicked my ass) would frequently have really old broken down gear that they'd been playing with for years.



If you want to play a game professionally (I don't recommend it) or just want to get really good at it you don't need a fancy keyboard or a mouse that has 1000Hz polling or any of that. Asked for recommendations I'd make the following:

• Use a biggish mouse pad (~11"x12") instead of using just your desk
• Use a mouse that registers movement consistently
• Get a computer that can hold 60FPS or 100FPS without ever dropping frames -or- adjust the graphics settings in your first-person shooter to achieve this
• Play against the best people you can and keep looking for better opponents, it doesn't matter if you're getting murdered
• Spend time watching and studying demos (POVs)
• Play a lot. Like, a lot.

The only keyboard thing that I suggest for gaming is that you get one with keys that don't have a lot of travel (Model M's are hard to play with). It's harder to stop depressing a key that does.

If you want some suggestions for mice that are a good and not expensive that you can find for cheap if you look around (in somewhat descending order):

Intellimouse Explorer 3.0
Intellimouse Explorer 1.1a
Logitech MX500
Logitech MX300  (Not the 310)

-Lefties Exception-
Left Handed Deathadder (The only ergo mouse for lefties that I know of)

This doesn't mean that there aren't other good mice, just that there is a lot of "gaming" marketing behind many of them.


So yea, I'm with you Antihope. A keyboard won't make you better. Get one because you like the way it feels, like a soft night shirt, and not on some other basis =].

[keyboardlover]

Out of curiousity, do 'professional gamers' actually get paid? And if so, by whom?

[Moogle Stiltzkin]

Sponsors. Or prizes from competition.

My brother use to represent Malaysian Counter Strike for WCG.


From what i heard, the South korean players get paid well + more respect and recognition for their skills than any other country.

[kriminal]

Good idea.  No ghosting here (I'm back on my brown cherry USB Filco).

=O

a cherry brown convert?